forjusticethunders
forjusticethunders's JournalHow many times do we have to educate you on this?
The only reason why we don't have the Internationale as one of our patriotic songs right now is white bigotry. White working class Americans fucking LOVE socialism when it's not going to """""""THOOOOOOOOOOOOSEEEEEEEEEEEE PEOOOOOOPLEEEEEEEEE"""""""""
As long as racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and other bigotries are a powerful force in American politics, a large plurality of white working class voters will see "their interest" as keeping resources away from minorities and will vote accordingly.
Now, one could argue that we needed to focus more on Hillary's plans and less on how bad Trump was, and that we underestimated how big a problem vote suppression would be, but given how multiple powerful entities, including a foreign Great Power adversary and our own domestic security services were trying to rig the election for Trump, who knows if that would have been enough.
Instead of shilling for the white """"working class""""
(Marx is rolling in his grave at the idea that reactionary petit bougies are the working class, though some actual white workers did shift to Trump)
Can someone tell me how the fuck we lost 10m (some who stayed home, others who actually shifted to Trump ffs) from the Obama Coalition and how we can get them back?
Also yes part of the answer is voter suppression, but that's the game we have to play and win at.
Bernie's message would have sold like gangbusters with a President Mitt Romney or John McCain.
With a President Obama, ummmmmmmmm, no. Right or wrong, a lot of Democratic Party voters didn't hear "Wall Street" or even Blue Dog corporate Dems, but Obama when they heard "Establishment".
The main issue is more optics than anything - you can be progressive without telling Wall Street to fuck off and die (in fact, not telling Wall Street to fuck off can help advance those goals, or at least neutralize them as an obstacle to an extent), but a lot of voters were really waiting for a candidate to tell Wall Street to fuck off and die. Obama and Hillary aren't "tell Wall Street to fuck off and die" types. Because of that, a lot of more progressive voters (and a lot of LPVs) see the game as "rigged" even if they're advocating progressive policy, because "Wall Street will get their way". The paid speeches were certainly benign in content, but that doesn't matter, and wouldn't have mattered unless Hillary was raining fire and brimstone on the bankers like she's channeling Jonathan Edwards in "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God". Those were the non-deplorable Trump voters (the ones Hillary said were non-deplorable), or at least some of them who were angry at the system because Obama and Hillary are, while definitely progressive and for marginalized groups, revolutionary in their own way, BECAUSE of their identities and the negative stereotypes used to keep them down (angry black man/bitchy feminist woman), can't take on the bully pulpit and go to war with the real Establishment the way a lot of lefties would like to.
I'm closer to the Marxist Left but I am well aware we have intersectionality issues to work out
What they don't realize is the extent to which capital was built on the exploitation of women as well as black and brown bodies. Without taking into account that exploitation, their class analysis is woefully incomplete. This is why even the elevation of an economic center-leftist such as Hillary (or Obama for that matter) has revolutionary potential, because it pulls out more of that revolutionary potential in those same groups, seeing one of their (or our) own overcome structural racism.
Also sad to say (from personal experience with many male progressives) - a huge attraction for men on the Left, especially young men on the left, is the idea that religion and conservative values are restricting male sexual access to women, so by supporting progressive politics that seek to undermine patriarchal controls on female sexuality, they would garner access to willing girls and women "freed" from the shackles of their conservative parents. That is the key aspect of Bernie's early writings - ostensibly sex-positive and trangressive of restrictive mores, but written with a prurient eye toward the sexual possibilities of liberated women. And of course, while those norms are undoubtedly oppressive, destroying them not for the sake of female liberation, but for cynical pursuit of lust, is definitely wrong.
A lot of the veiled hatred for women on the male Left stems from the fact that their female "comrades" were too independent and didn't just put out on demand. Marx himself stated that the movement would take on characteristics of the oppressive wider society, and the New Left had that problem in spades.
A possible "bait and switch" to fight voter suppression
Dems should propose *national* voter ID. From Alaska to Maine. However, they should ALSO propose the following as part of national voter ID:
- Automatic registration at 18 for all citizens, no strings attached.
- Phased-in automatic registration for all citizens over 18, based on drivers license info, Social Security info with latest available picture info
- Photographic ID based off school picture records (you graduate HS, you get a free ID card, you drop out, you get a free ID card based on your last school photo
- Significant expansion of early voting sites and hours
- Significant expansion of DMV and other government sites for voter registration
- Detailed instructions on how to acquire an ID and register
- National no excuse absentee and mail in ballots
Force the GOP to defend voter suppression by offering them "what they want" on paper but with a pile of caveats and measures designed to counteract voter suppression.
Remember, the Shillver special sauce is nothing more than GIGO.
Just tweak the way you weigh the garbage and the nongarbage* and you can get whatever horse(shit)race you want.
*all public polls are "garbage" to an extent, even the best ones, due to undercounting POCs, not being able to account for GOP/evangelical women too scared to poll Hillary at the dinner table but not to vote her in secret, and the lack of targeted voter data compared to internal polling
I like how a white Trump-loving cop killer isn't national news.
im not saying im just saying
I personally think that Hillary is still up 7-10
Based on the following factors:
1: Polls consistently undersample people of color - given the massive margins Trump is losing POC by, this is significant.
2: Many GOP women, or women married to GOP men, are unwilling to openly express support for Clinton with the man in earshot. Even if it works in a "Press 1 for Hillary, press 2 for Trump" fashion, the anxiety is still there.
3: Trump's ground game and organization has been so bad that we could see up to 1-2% of voters show up at the polls and get turned away because the campaign didn't get them to register, however, they will still show up in likely voter screens. In contrast, Hillary's GOTV operation may squeeze an extra 1-2% from voters not considered "likely".
4: The math doesn't add up. How is Trump underperforming Romney in every group aside from no college whites and yet appears to be overperforming him nationally? A lot of these polls have to be predicting absolutely historic white male turnout and margins for this to work (think 2004 demos with 75-80% white males for Trump)
Just remember that Obama overperformed polling averages by about 3 points in 2012.
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Member since: Thu Jan 28, 2016, 04:01 PM
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