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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
26. I do not think that Occupy should support any movement that refuses to let a speaker speak.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:51 AM
Aug 2015

One of the basic ideals of the Occupy movement was that a person should be allowed to speak in his/her turn. I agree very much with BLM's right to protest and with the cause it stands for. But I object to any group that protests so as to completely silence others. That is the method of fascists. Discussion. Dialogue. Taking your turn. Great.

But shutting off a speaker who is scheduled to speak. No. And that is pretty much what was done to O'Malley at Netroots Nation. (Bernie's speech was delayed by the lengthy demonstration but he managed to speak. O'Malley was pretty much silenced, could only get in very little of his scheduled statement.)

I think that Bernie Sanders handled the BLM issue very well in his Los Angeles rally. And the Sanders supporters wildly supported the BLM agenda and points presented by Symone Sanders.

I still maintain that it was not necessary for BLM to present itself as somehow opposing or needing to force its way on the stage at Netroots Nation and the Seattle Sanders presentation. Sanders has supported the rights of African-Americans since the 1960s, has never given up that support, and it was ignorant on the part of the leadership of BLM to think they needed to force their way on the stage to make it look like Bernie Sanders opposed them. Just a cheap trick.

I would also like to add that I and many other white people like me, social workers, nurses, lawyers, teachers, ministers, people in helping professions, have worked and sacrificed to further the interests of Black people. We have visited prisons, hospitals, represented and advocated for racial justice and the BLM movement and many DJUers insult the work that we have tirelessly done for Black people with their accusation that all white people are racists.

I wish they could know the sacrifices that my family has made for generations to support racial equality, the end of slavery and equal justice. (Done for religious reasons because my family was Methodist and John Wesley strongly opposed slavery.)

I will never forget the impression that my great-grandfather made on me. He accompanied his father when is father, who had fled Germany after the Revolution of 1848 there, joined the Union army to fight against slavery. My great-grandfather, still officially a boy and not recognized as a soldier ran reconnaissance and caught a bullet in his leg in the process. He carried the burden of that injury until he died at the age of 98 after doing the hard work of a farmer for most of his life.

On the other side of my family, my mother still had the fragment of correspondence between one of my ancestors and his son. The son was fighting in the Civil War and had gone AWOL saying he did not want to die just to free the slaves. My ancestor, the father of that AWOL soldier wrote back and told his son that he had to go back and fight. The son died in the Civil War. Imagine the pain the father felt having told his son to go back and fight against slavery when he learned of his son's death. White Union soldiers died, many, many of them, to free black people from slavery. While the debt owed by white people for the crime of slavery is great, the debt owed by black people for the deaths of Union soldiers who lost their lives for the Union and to free the slaves is also great and should not be forgotten. When a young man dies to improve the life of someone he has never met, of a race he has perhaps only glimpsed because of his father's abhorrence of slavery, those who benefited from that death should certainly respect it.

And that is just one of the members of my family, all white, who joined the struggle to rid our country of its racism and hate and replace it with tolerance, acceptance and love. Many white families, many white Americans living today have family histories like mine.

That is why I am personally troubled by the BLM's action in silencing Bernie Sanders and other politicians who have throughout their lives stood for civil rights, stood for racial justice and stood for economic justice on top of that. These advocates for equality took chances, were criticized, in some cases ostracized and gained nothing from their efforts for themselves.

That is why I think that the BLM movement and the Black movement in general needs to understand that they have many allies in the white community and that they have not come as far as they have without the hard work, sacrifices and support of many in the white community.

None of us ever achieve our dreams all by ourselves. We need community. The BLM movement needs to stop confronting, insulting and alienating their friends and rather continue to reach out to that part of the white community that it can rely on for support. We cannot, the BLM cannot, women cannot, the LGBT community cannot, families cannot change this nation if we offend and oppose each other. We have to work together.

I assure you that is very true that I, a woman who is privileged to be white and to come from a family that has been educated for at least a couple of generations, cannot know what it is to be Black, ostracized and hated only for the color of my skin. But because I am a woman, because I have known poverty, because I have known fear, because I have known being disregarded, because I know what it is to be discriminated against in the workplace as a woman and as a worker over the age of 50, and because I have visited prisons and juvenile halls and courts and advocated for justice for all, I do feel that I am part of the solution and at least not a major part of the problem, and I deserve more respect for my contributions throughout my life to justice than the BLMers would give me.

I understand that in the movie, Selma, Lyndon B. Johnson's role in signing the Civil Rights Act was misrepresented. Excuse me. But one of the reasons he dared not run for a second full term of his own in office was the fact that he knew he could not win thanks to his signature on that Act. He knew he had lost the South for generations with that one signature. His signing that bill was an act of courage and self-sacrifice. To see black people rewrite history to omit that act of courage is very troubling.

Equal rights including ending police brutality, profiling and all discrimination is one of the top priorities for America right now.

But there are also other pressing problems. Wealth disparity and our trade policies that export jobs and with those jobs, opportunities, mean disaster for people of all races in America. That is also a top priority. Hillary Clinton talks the talk on economic justice, but she and Bill have not walked the walk on it. Homelessness is an epidemic that is hitting all races and age groups but is most troubling as it affects the very young and the very old.

We need to work together to solve not just the problem of racism but all the problems that like racism have worsened since the advent of Reaganism.

Bernie is our best bet for really getting action and not just promises to solve these problems. It is pitiful to see a group of people with no real grasp of the complex history of their own s, of their own struggle, of the history of their own movement from slavery to segregation to now the struggle for equality before the law, disowning and insulting their most reliable supporters among white people.

The BLM needs to review the history of the struggle to end slavery and segregation if it is to now end police brutality and a sick prison and judicial system. We none of us can go it alone. Women cannot achieve equal pay without the support of men. Blacks cannot achieve it or equality in the rest of their lives without the support of white people. I understand the impatience. I am impatient too.

But the suppression of voting, the police brutality, all of the racism can only be ended if we get solidarity that surpasses the limits of our own race and interests and get a LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS. It can be done, but we have to win more seats in the South. We have to win more seats in the Middle West, and we have to get our liberal voters out in the mid-term elections.

And if we are to get more voter support in elections, we have to be the party that represents the interests and speaks to the issues of more voters in those elections. The uniting issues before the American people are the economic issues, the issues of jobs, of the disparity in wealth, of a financial sector that has run amok and does not support the real economy in which we all live and strive to survive. Those are issues that unite voters. Those are the issues that can help us win support in the Midwest where we have lost it, in the South where we have lost it.

We cannot choose between advocating on economic issues or on justice issues because we cannot have justice when we have great economic hopelessness, despair and disparity in wealth. We cannot have economic justice without racial justice. We cannot have racial justice without economic justice. That is because we Democrats cannot win elections if we choose to advocate only for either racial OR economic justice. To get enough voters behind us, we have to advocate and work hard to achieve both racial and economic justice.

It's great that Black people voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. I worked hard and voted for him too. But we have to get Black voters registered and voting in the Mid-terms. And there is no excuse for any eligible Black voter to stay at home on any election day. Don't blame white people for the repression if you can't get out and vote every election. That means local elections: your school board, your city council, your state representatives. Of course, we also need to run better candidates who will support equal rights. (And here in California, racial justice and voting involve immigrants and Hispanic people who need also to get out and vote even in mid-terms.]

This is my rant. When I criticize BLM, I am speaking as a white woman who at 72 has struggled with and for Black people in the trenches for many years, at times full-time and for the poorest, lending my skills, my intelligence and my energy to their good and the good of society as I understand it. I have not exclusively advocated and worked for equality but I can say that my work especially for Black homeless men was major in my life. And I do not think it is right or honest for young Black kids to disrespect and disregard my support for their community and their future or the support that Bernie and other people have given just because their supporters are white. It is just wrong.

So that is my emotional reply to the criticism. We have to support each other. And the history of Black liberation is not one in which Black people struggled alone. A lot of white people paid the price and worked hard for equality. That should not be ignored or forgotten.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Thank you Thom Hartman. lovemydog Aug 2015 #1
That was stunningly beautiful! Cha Aug 2015 #28
... handmade34 Aug 2015 #2
Excellent! BainsBane Aug 2015 #3
When I hear the word 'rude' or 'disuptive' applied, I want to say that's a false equivalency. freshwest Aug 2015 #4
Thom Hartmann. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #5
Note the tinge of anger in his voice! ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #53
Ouch! sheshe2 Aug 2015 #58
Yes, I did notice that.. and the more he was thinking about it.. the more pissed off he became. Cha Aug 2015 #121
Damn, good for him! Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #6
Yes, his account posted this video in this thread in GD under the heading "lets wake white folks up Number23 Aug 2015 #8
Oooo....! Will go check that out. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #9
So glad you brought it here, I don't usually visit V&MM anymore. 400 years! Time for respect! n/t freshwest Aug 2015 #16
Fuck YES! sheshe2 Aug 2015 #17
And he has called out the good, the bad and ugly by name. It's a public board, quoted elsewhere. n/t freshwest Aug 2015 #13
Yes, I guess I wish the boards owners would make some kind of a stand too. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #15
Skinner has said, when a bad post is made, they stopped removing them. It's their punishment. freshwest Aug 2015 #25
he is also a Sanders supporters and this was posted in GD JI7 Aug 2015 #7
This is what everybody has been saying since Netroots. THIS IS NOT ABOUT BERNIE SANDERS Number23 Aug 2015 #12
I wold hate to be a Black woman ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #44
They might Jamaal510 Aug 2015 #99
There is no doubt that the reaction to the BLM has been very emotionally charged. stillwaiting Aug 2015 #59
I haven't seen these "apologies." All I've seen is more doubling down and "jokes" made about "have Number23 Aug 2015 #79
I'll be upfront here: Jamaal510 Aug 2015 #101
"He has to put them in check before it's too late and he loses even more would-be supporters." Number23 Aug 2015 #103
An intervention isn't a bad idea. Jamaal510 Aug 2015 #105
Absofuckinglutely. Number23 Aug 2015 #107
I'm a Bernie supporter and did not like my own first reaction. unapatriciated Aug 2015 #104
Racism is a powerful force. It is stronger than reinforced steel yet can travel light as a Number23 Aug 2015 #106
Then it is up to me and others to open their eyes. unapatriciated Aug 2015 #108
That's a really good point. lovemydog Aug 2015 #34
bernie hired BLM activist Symone Sanders noiretextatique Aug 2015 #10
I stand with Marissa Johnson "#BlackLivesMatter More Than the Hurt Feelings of White Progressives" Cha Aug 2015 #24
Just so I am clear ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #45
No, it was the message: freshwest Aug 2015 #118
If Clinton did something like that it would be called "pandering" George II Aug 2015 #60
Truth be told at last! JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #61
"Somehow I can't imagine Mahatma Gandhi giving the microphone back." stone space Aug 2015 #11
Thank God Dems2002 Aug 2015 #14
Good Lord, yes... Number23 Aug 2015 #18
This is a good thing, Hartman will end up helping Sanders in the longer run. uponit7771 Aug 2015 #19
I'm glad he came out with this passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #20
Marissa Johnson is for #BlackLivesMatter.. too many people are trying to smear her and Thom Cha Aug 2015 #30
Right on ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #21
"Seattle is the city of the WTO protests." Apparently these folks have forgotten that Number23 Aug 2015 #22
Right? ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #23
You know in the last few days all I've been trying to giftedgirl77 Aug 2015 #52
Mahalo for that report on your city, ismnotwasm! Cha Aug 2015 #33
I do not think that Occupy should support any movement that refuses to let a speaker speak. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #26
... Number23 Aug 2015 #32
".. the BLM movement and the Black movement in general needs to understand.. .. " Just Cha Aug 2015 #35
I agree with BLM. I don't agree with its strategy. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #65
Innocent people - boys, girls, men & women lovemydog Aug 2015 #91
No, just your sentence right here.. says you don't get it. you're the one who needs to learn.. Cha Aug 2015 #119
disagree JI7 Aug 2015 #39
Please see my posts 64 and 65. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #66
LOL betsuni Aug 2015 #98
Great minds and all... NOLALady Aug 2015 #97
UGH JI7 Aug 2015 #40
You are missing the most important elements here etherealtruth Aug 2015 #41
Wrong. Brown v. Board of Education and the Supreme Court decisions JDPriestly Aug 2015 #64
I am sorry, I won't take the time to read your ramblings etherealtruth Aug 2015 #67
Thanks for reading my post and for your response. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #68
Well, to summarize what I am getting from your posts is... Spazito Aug 2015 #71
Yep. "Yikes" indeed. Number23 Aug 2015 #75
What alternative is there? JDPriestly Aug 2015 #83
The issue is NOT to change the mind of a racist... Spazito Aug 2015 #84
FFS. How do you think those decisions make it to the Supreme Court in the first place? ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #72
I think you misunderstand what I am saying. I know very well how those decisions made it to JDPriestly Aug 2015 #82
Someone so easily "alienated" was never a very strong ally to begin with. nomorenomore08 Nov 2015 #132
Family, I blocked this person. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #85
I want to cover this post in chocolate and dunk it in my cocoa. Number23 Aug 2015 #74
... greatauntoftriplets Aug 2015 #92
thank you. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #111
My mom is your age and I can't imagine her Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #49
Not to mention (Worth the Hide!) onpatrol98 Aug 2015 #69
Oh my! Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #70
Whoops! ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #73
That is all kinds of awesome. Number23 Aug 2015 #76
Jesus H. Christ. greatauntoftriplets Aug 2015 #95
So it was okay when it was not an elected official JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #100
It is the disappointment of one who has worked in the trenches and then has to watch other people JDPriestly Aug 2015 #78
I really think you should leave this forum, I am asking you please. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #80
As both a white progressive and a Sanders supporter, this post made me cringe. Embarrassing. WIProgressive88 Aug 2015 #110
It really is. And what's sad is that this person will not only NOT learn from this exchange Number23 Aug 2015 #114
Are you really "on their side" if you're trying so hard to dictate the terms? nomorenomore08 Nov 2015 #134
Look, I'm an RN ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #62
WOW.. he calls DU OUT on their Shite! Awesome, Number23! Brave told me Cha Aug 2015 #27
Yes, bravenak wrote to Thom and showed him what's been going on at DU and who's been doing it Number23 Aug 2015 #29
Look at that girl go.. out there in the real world .. gettn' things done! Cha Aug 2015 #36
Nice! Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #50
Good for her! greatauntoftriplets Aug 2015 #96
I agree! That gal is a wiz when it comes to using the media. One of the 789,287 reasons Number23 Aug 2015 #102
So! dpatbrown Aug 2015 #31
So ... You should listen! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #46
WHAT? lovemydog Aug 2015 #89
The proper response is, "Huh?" n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #93
What did Bernie do to deserve being heckled? bluestateguy Aug 2015 #37
The use by date on those "points" you're making have looooong since expired Number23 Aug 2015 #38
Exactly. Past the expiration date. lovemydog Aug 2015 #87
He is running for public office ... It is part of the gig etherealtruth Aug 2015 #42
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #47
It took me a while to get that joke lovemydog Aug 2015 #90
Black people being murdered lovemydog Aug 2015 #88
You need to keep up.. and it's your loss if you don't take them "seriously". Seriously. Cha Aug 2015 #122
Joe Madison mentioned BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #43
There's been a whole lot of "Gotcha!" from a certain crowd here targeting black posters with gentle Number23 Aug 2015 #77
"That was "principled disruption" BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #86
they didn't seem to mind cornel west's racist diatribes against President Obama and FL Michelle, Cha Aug 2015 #120
Mahalo Cha! BumRushDaShow Aug 2015 #124
Aloha BRDS! Cha Aug 2015 #125
Yes, BRDS! "Good on the Real Progressives for calling out the hypocrisy" and the ignorance. Cha Aug 2015 #123
yes!! Quayblue Aug 2015 #48
It is great to hear Thom Hartmann 'gets it'... Spazito Aug 2015 #51
Huge K&R! Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #54
"They're sick and tired of being shot at." And shat on, too. calimary Aug 2015 #55
Kick & highly recommended! William769 Aug 2015 #56
He - he - he JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #57
Girl, Whoopie is GETTING DOWN Number23 Aug 2015 #81
Lol~ sheshe2 Aug 2015 #113
"They physically attacked Bernie!!!!" zappaman Aug 2015 #63
No kidding zappaman. lovemydog Aug 2015 #94
As BS' "campaign coordinator", Hartmann has to save face. The optics have been awful for them. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #109
"I've seen an ugly outpouring here, over the past couple of weeks, that I'll never forget." Number23 Aug 2015 #115
Glad he said it, but since I don't like Hartmann, I'm not impressed. He's putting out a fire for... Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #117
I agree completely with everything Thom said. WIProgressive88 Aug 2015 #112
I couldn't agree more with everything you've written. Number23 Aug 2015 #116
Thanks for the welcome, Number23. WIProgressive88 Aug 2015 #126
Want to kick this after finding out that John Lewis' Facebook page was slimed after he dared to Number23 Oct 2015 #127
Man, sorry to hear about John Lewis' facebook. And thanks for sharing this video. Stellar Oct 2015 #128
It was slimed? zappaman Oct 2015 #129
Daily Kos has been all over this. Many of the black diarists there have been FUMING over the Number23 Oct 2015 #130
Ugh. zappaman Oct 2015 #131
A late K&R, if I may. I just wish I'd seen this thread 3 months ago. n/t nomorenomore08 Nov 2015 #133
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