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Lithos

(26,404 posts)
77. the problem I have with this is the alternative
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:30 PM
Sep 2017

If the debate stops at Obamacare, then the goalposts are set there - you go no further, no improvements. That constrains and will ultimately yield something less than what we have. If you move the goalposts farther back, then it shows that what is there is not enough.

The issue is Obamacare was a compromise and is not perfect. Single-payer as well as fixes to Pharma offer a whole series of ideas which would otherwise never be considered. These are the ideas which improve Obamacare for the benefit of the United States. Not considering these out of hand leaves a lack of ideas on our side whose vacuum will be filled with cruelty of the Republican talking points.


The Republicans learned this along time ago - there is no such thing as the status quo - you keep pushing your position, no matter what. We have to do the same.

As for the question - why Sanders. I believe Sanders got this because he is the Democratic Chair of the Budget Committee and was one of the authors of the ACA. Is this damaging to our brand? Not really. What is damaging is continually pushing him as an "outsider" to the Democratic Party (even though he's not) which given the sentiment of the US electorate turns people off.

I said this earlier! It's definitely a mistake... he's the wrong person for the job. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #1
Agree. riversedge Sep 2017 #4
Agree . . . peggysue2 Sep 2017 #18
Agree completely. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #144
Agree absolutely! Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #217
AT the same time, what is so disheartening (put aside who is making the argument) Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #10
Well said. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #34
Why? Lordquinton Sep 2017 #39
LOL! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #40
He's the most popular! Is he dreamy too? lunamagica Sep 2017 #49
Interesting responce Lordquinton Sep 2017 #59
Yes, very... people who refuse to consider the reasons why Bernie is so popular... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #74
Can I just say that I don't care if Sen. Sanders is popular or not...what difference does it make? Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #159
Taylor Swift is popular too, wonder how she feels about the state of our healthcare insurance system George II Sep 2017 #171
Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #175
huh?? InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #176
Ha! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #64
You're so smart that I bet you can spell "response" correctly. lapucelle Sep 2017 #71
HAHAHAHAHAHA ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #78
Normally, in the course of an actual discussion... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #108
... sheshe2 Sep 2017 #169
Feel the bern! George II Sep 2017 #174
Risponse? George II Sep 2017 #173
... lunamagica Sep 2017 #83
Another haydukelives Sep 2017 #151
Really? How so? Why is it interesting do you? NurseJackie Sep 2017 #154
No, if he goes on and on about single payer, we are screwed...I hope he understands this Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #109
Apparently he's sooooo dreamy! Ninsianna Sep 2017 #136
I can't wait to see him in the cover of Tiger Beat Magazine lunamagica Sep 2017 #143
Ask and you shall receive. (Google search can find anything!) NurseJackie Sep 2017 #153
Oh, snap! lunamagica Sep 2017 #157
No answer? Lordquinton Sep 2017 #60
I'm smarter than you think... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #65
Harvard/Harris poll? sheshe2 Sep 2017 #168
Agree. The Dems should listen to Gergan. Alice11111 Sep 2017 #203
+ a million. Tarheel_Dem Sep 2017 #215
Who or How was it determined that Bernie and Amy would represent the Dems?? Anyone know? riversedge Sep 2017 #2
My guess is this frazzled Sep 2017 #14
So are we looking at a scenario where Sen. Sanders promotes MFA and Graham promotes Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #110
Here's what the Washington Post is reporting: lapucelle Sep 2017 #55
So why are Democrats being blamed for this? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #139
That's a great question. lapucelle Sep 2017 #141
I read somewhere that CNN invited them. n/t pnwmom Sep 2017 #130
Isn't Gergen a Republican? n/m bagelsforbreakfast Sep 2017 #3
He most certainly is melman Sep 2017 #6
Gergen has worked for both Democratic and Republican Presidents. brooklynite Sep 2017 #20
That's nice melman Sep 2017 #75
If he happens to be registered that way its irrelevant. stevenleser Sep 2017 #121
How someone is registered only matters when that person is Bernie. Amirite? Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #132
LOL, you never surprise me. I know any response from you will have ad hominems against me. stevenleser Sep 2017 #137
There were no ad-homs in the post you're replying to Lordquinton Sep 2017 #142
There are. This is a discussion about Gergen and perhaps Bernie. Not about me. stevenleser Sep 2017 #146
And there's another one Lordquinton Sep 2017 #147
No, it was not directed at my position, it was directed at me personally. stevenleser Sep 2017 #150
He worked for haydukelives Sep 2017 #152
The breakdown... SHRED Sep 2017 #195
So if I say This is the wrong time for Sanders to bring up Single-Payer... brooklynite Sep 2017 #221
He's a piece of shit SHRED Sep 2017 #191
Oh okay... I trust what he says (not). InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #73
He is a reasonable one though, I value his opinion Motley13 Sep 2017 #13
He's very wise BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author m-lekktor Sep 2017 #27
Hes non-ideological. Attempting to smear him doesnt change the fact that stevenleser Sep 2017 #120
The bill is already apparently dead, but Bernie will give the repukes socialism ammo to use NightWatcher Sep 2017 #5
It isn't over until after October 1st. MontanaMama Sep 2017 #8
++++++++Exactly R B Garr Sep 2017 #35
Exactly. Chemisse Sep 2017 #107
He has an interest in what is best for the American people. Ron Green Sep 2017 #145
You're right EffieBlack Sep 2017 #211
Yes, he'll give ammo and lots of it to the republiscums.... machoneman Sep 2017 #161
Says David Gergen, Republican and The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #7
And McCain is already a no. So the debate is now Single payer v Bupkis. nt Xipe Totec Sep 2017 #9
Nobody's "already a no" until after they vote. (n/t) Iggo Sep 2017 #19
So ping me after the vote. nt Xipe Totec Sep 2017 #21
You think single payer is coming up for a vote anytime soon? bettyellen Sep 2017 #31
Yes. I won't trust this is over till Sept. 30. Anyone could change their mind pnwmom Sep 2017 #140
McCain could change his mind...and there is no point in debating a bill that cannot pass Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #111
And if on Monday Bernie focuses on his single payer bill and comes across too strident or wacky EffieBlack Sep 2017 #213
I know to save us all from gasp ...socialized medicine which is how the GOP will demonize Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #219
I've been fighting for single payer for decades EffieBlack Sep 2017 #225
You miss the point. this is how the GOP will demonize single payer...as socialized medicine. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #226
I may have misundestood you. EffieBlack Sep 2017 #227
I plan to fight for universal coverage whatever the form... Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #231
Why did you leave off his service for Bill Clinton? former9thward Sep 2017 #22
He's still a Republican. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #26
That attempt to discredit wont work with Gergen. Sorry. stevenleser Sep 2017 #122
I'm not trying to discredit him; I'm merely pointing out that The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #149
OFFS SHRED Sep 2017 #198
Yup, and notice what he's saying actually helps Democrats, R B Garr Sep 2017 #212
Because... SHRED Sep 2017 #197
Well I doubt either one of us knows exactly what Gergen did for Clinton. former9thward Sep 2017 #222
He also worked in the Clinton admin BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #24
that figures. nt m-lekktor Sep 2017 #29
What does that mean? BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #36
Clinton was a middle-right Democrat wellst0nev0ter Sep 2017 #46
Huh? You're calling Bill Clinton a right-winger??? Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #48
Few more question marks needed ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #79
He proved his bona fides wellst0nev0ter Sep 2017 #89
Did you vote for Hillary Clinton in the GE? lunamagica Sep 2017 #61
Crickets...that figures. lapucelle Sep 2017 #67
And you are who to ask? ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #81
It's against the TOS to post here if you didn't vote for Hillary lunamagica Sep 2017 #82
Then let Skinner deal with that ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #84
So I need to "pipe down" but you get to tell me whhat to post? That's rich! lunamagica Sep 2017 #85
Gosh looks like bedtime for you ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #86
Nighty night! lunamagica Sep 2017 #88
Is there any reason why you feel the need to make your posts so disrespectful and dismissive? Squinch Sep 2017 #235
That doesn't make it appropriate to be asking that melman Sep 2017 #92
Why not? The answer is very easy. This is a Democratic website, for people who vote for Democrats lunamagica Sep 2017 #93
No melman Sep 2017 #94
Well I find strange that asking a simple questioon like that is "inapropiate" lunamagica Sep 2017 #95
It's not that interesting at all melman Sep 2017 #96
Its an appropriate question and apparently a problem for that person to answer stevenleser Sep 2017 #124
Everyone here has the right to ask. Thats part of the point of being here stevenleser Sep 2017 #123
Ask it. But it's a cheap question. No one owes an answer. George Eliot Sep 2017 #131
Nope, not a cheap question. Goes to the heart of whether one should be here stevenleser Sep 2017 #181
this is a partisan political board. it's stupid to think that's something JI7 Sep 2017 #206
Not a cheap question at all, especially considering the rather toxic atmosphere that has been Ninsianna Sep 2017 #237
And who are YOU to be telling another poster what they can and cannot ask? Squinch Sep 2017 #234
Symbolic SHRED Sep 2017 #187
Yeah, it's just fine. BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #190
Nixon and Reagan were great! SHRED Sep 2017 #193
If you say so. BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #194
Gergen has worked for Democratic and Republican presidents. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #38
Four Republicans: Nixon, Ford, Reagan and G.H.W. Bush. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #43
Oh well if David Gergen says it that means case closed. Nanjeanne Sep 2017 #11
And he's against Sanders left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #45
"It's a strategic mistake..." lapucelle Sep 2017 #63
Gergen's strategies have helped ruin this country SHRED Sep 2017 #200
K&R Gothmog Sep 2017 #12
I have to agree with Gergen wryter2000 Sep 2017 #15
Gergen is a POS SHRED Sep 2017 #189
I agree he's a POS wryter2000 Sep 2017 #228
He is onboard SHRED Sep 2017 #229
I don't really do Facebook wryter2000 Sep 2017 #233
I agree. GentryDixon Sep 2017 #16
You'll listen to a Republican though? Lordquinton Sep 2017 #41
The man is a truth-teller. I don't agree with his politics, but he knows politics and has no agenda. kerry-is-my-prez Sep 2017 #50
Sad Lordquinton Sep 2017 #62
Not sad at all. Gergen has demonstrated good judgement and sense for 50 years stevenleser Sep 2017 #126
Yep. 100% correct. nt stevenleser Sep 2017 #125
So it is good that Conyers introduces his bill Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #118
At the time he did for this one. Yes. GentryDixon Sep 2017 #119
Spot on. nt LexVegas Sep 2017 #17
Gergen is spot on as he often is. BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #25
Gergen can speak for me more often than Bernie can. Gergen is right about this one. haveahart Sep 2017 #30
Oh really? SHRED Sep 2017 #202
I think Gergen has better instincts than Bernie. BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #210
With all due respect Gergan, I believe this will be our finest hour Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #28
right...because we are always at our best when we do something that will Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #113
Gergen has been around for a LONG time DFW Sep 2017 #32
I agree with Gergen. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #33
Uhh... SHRED Sep 2017 #196
please dear gawd reschedule it! samnsara Sep 2017 #37
It will be awful for our side. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #114
This thread is embarrassing Lordquinton Sep 2017 #42
Are you not able to distinguish between strategy for and opinion of a policy? It is WinkyDink Sep 2017 #102
Oh yeah...I'm sure Gergen is here to "help" SHRED Sep 2017 #204
I agree Lebam in LA Sep 2017 #44
I agree with him. Big, BIG mistake lunamagica Sep 2017 #47
Sanders will bring ratings. That's a good thing for single payor. George Eliot Sep 2017 #135
Do you think taking policy shanny Sep 2017 #51
Independant of Mr Gergen, I also feel the choice of Sanders is a strategic mistake... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #52
Well Shit ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #87
He is there so Graham can take him down...and CNN gets good ratings in the process. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #115
I do NOT believe it is a mistake to ask the repugs why after 8 years... Tikki Sep 2017 #53
They invited Sen. Sanders so he could go on and on about single payer Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #116
Wtf is Sylvia Burwell doing Monday night? mobeau69 Sep 2017 #54
Well now that this ellie Sep 2017 #56
Pretty much everyone on Morning Joe said the same thing. Ilsa Sep 2017 #57
We're taking advice from Joe Scar shanny Sep 2017 #112
I did not say that. I said there was a consensus of opinion from Ilsa Sep 2017 #166
One of the people who helped write the ACA Nevernose Sep 2017 #58
Spot on, but the ACA will survive. Thankfully. bluepen Sep 2017 #66
Advice from a Nixon speech writer? ZX86 Sep 2017 #68
They are serious SHRED Sep 2017 #199
Did the Democrats ask Sanders to do the debate? NobodyHere Sep 2017 #69
You just know you're being warned, asshole, about what you and your owners can expect Warpy Sep 2017 #70
Why would this debate continue? DeltaLitProf Sep 2017 #72
If the Democrats make this a debate between single-payer and the Republican Graham/Cassidy bill..... Not Ruth Sep 2017 #76
Find out what? How to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...the GOP billl is going nowhere Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #160
It is a debate between the people that wrote the bills Not Ruth Sep 2017 #165
It's a debate for or against Graham-Cassidy. That's the bill up for a vote. Nothing else. George II Sep 2017 #172
Exactly. CNN's title is "The Fight to Save Obamacare" R B Garr Sep 2017 #224
the problem I have with this is the alternative Lithos Sep 2017 #77
You appear to have nothing useful to do, elleng Sep 2017 #80
It will certainly be a test of Sanders' instincts Awsi Dooger Sep 2017 #90
that's assuming Graham and Cassidy aren't going to lie and throw out bs arguments of their own JI7 Sep 2017 #99
Disagree with Gergen. Talk about ideas! Give people a path forward! sharedvalues Sep 2017 #91
Yeah, make a passionate plea for single payer so you scare the crap out of moderate GOP and they Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #162
Ideas. Not just the party of no. sharedvalues Sep 2017 #188
I would rather save the ACA which is what this is about...work on the single payer after the ACA is Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #220
Single payer won't happen now sharedvalues Sep 2017 #232
why does this person's opinion matter? Is he somebody we hold in high regard in progressive circles? JCanete Sep 2017 #97
He is someone who has demonstrated good judgement for over 50 years stevenleser Sep 2017 #127
He is someone who has debated Democrats for fifty years. George Eliot Sep 2017 #133
lol melman Sep 2017 #134
Lol, you are speaking for all of DU as if you know all discussions stevenleser Sep 2017 #179
All one has to do is search his name melman Sep 2017 #180
First hit shows people agreeing with Gergen, you are wrong stevenleser Sep 2017 #182
And here's three threads where he's being trashed melman Sep 2017 #183
there have also been positive threads about him when he went after republicans JI7 Sep 2017 #192
He's been mocked here since the days of the Daily Howler and MWO melman Sep 2017 #201
no he hasn't. it was based on what he said. but he would equally get positive reaction JI7 Sep 2017 #205
Yes he absolutely has melman Sep 2017 #207
no, that's why you had to reach back 5+ years to find things. he has mostly been critical of trump JI7 Sep 2017 #208
It logical...this debate is a bad idea...I am hoping Sen. Sanders does not fall into the obvious Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #163
For starters, the Democrats aren't having Bernie debate anything. Vinca Sep 2017 #98
Who in America... CanSocDem Sep 2017 #100
Dr. Howard Dean? Hillary Clinton? WinkyDink Sep 2017 #103
Their record... CanSocDem Sep 2017 #105
Your meaning being? If sarcasm, Bernie's success is where? If serious, then why ask "WHO ELSE..."? WinkyDink Sep 2017 #117
Not really. You think there is no profit with Medicare? WinkyDink Sep 2017 #104
The goal of the debate is to defeat CassidyGraham ollie10 Sep 2017 #129
I agree. Why add ANYthing even SLIGHTLY controversial and/or new? Then WE have to defend WinkyDink Sep 2017 #101
How weird... Mike Nelson Sep 2017 #106
The issue is Cassidy-Graham.... ollie10 Sep 2017 #128
Seems a disdain Sanders debate for some.Amy K, pro Kestone, there to tame the independent I imagine. George Eliot Sep 2017 #138
So says Gergen..... jalan48 Sep 2017 #148
PLEASE postpone this! samnsara Sep 2017 #155
If anyone can save Graham/Cassidy it's Bernie gulliver Sep 2017 #156
Thank you for saying this. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #164
Mr. Gergen is a H2O Man Sep 2017 #158
Doesn't matter how Bernie does, the Haters Club will trash him Arazi Sep 2017 #167
I don't even see the point of this "debate", it's not going to accomplish anything at this time. George II Sep 2017 #170
+1, The title for it on CNN is "The Fight to save Obamacare" R B Garr Sep 2017 #223
"...Gergen warned Democrats ..." SHRED Sep 2017 #177
David Gergen - like David Brooks, but older and with less self-awareness . . . hatrack Sep 2017 #178
As long as he's... SHRED Sep 2017 #184
"If" SHRED Sep 2017 #185
I admire how much into unity you are! Vive la vida UNITED! right? Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #218
Why would ANYONE here respect this guy? SHRED Sep 2017 #186
If we take a survey of Gergen's opinions... JHB Sep 2017 #209
I am not a rabid fan of Bernie Sanders Skittles Sep 2017 #214
Some things are so obvious/logical/commonsense they are noticed by everyone including non-DEMS. Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #216
Interesting Man_Bear_Pig Sep 2017 #230
graham is already telling everyone that obamacare is just... samnsara Sep 2017 #236
Wow! So much silence George Eliot Sep 2017 #238
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»CNN's Gergen: 'Strategic ...»Reply #77