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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCNN's Gergen: 'Strategic mistake' for Dems to have Sanders debate healthcare
CNN's David Gergen warned Democrats that it's a strategic mistake to have Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) participate in a debate against Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Bill Cassidy (R-La.) on Monday night before a national TV audience.
If the Democrats make this a debate between single-payer and the Republican Graham/Cassidy bill, they will very likely lose that debate," said Gergen, a former adviser to Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton.
CNN announced Thursday that it will host a town hall-style debate Monday night where senators from both sides of the aisle will face off over the new ObamaCare repeal bill.
The debate will pit Cassidy and Graham, the sponsors of the bill, against Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.).
http://thehill.com/homenews/media/351886-cnns-gergen-strategic-mistake-for-dems-to-have-sanders-debate-healthcare
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)riversedge
(69,721 posts)peggysue2
(10,811 posts)x10
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)x1000.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,097 posts)is how hard it is to convince half of this country they are better off without a for profit corporation deciding their healthcare access.
This is ridiculous, we should not have to argue about who is making the argument, there should be NO argument.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)As long as who makes the argument, does a very good job making the argument, and not stray from the debate's purpose.
The goal - kill the G-C bill, not make the argument for single payer.
Single payer comes later, I hope.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)I definitely want the most popular progressive senator fighting for us.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Very telling.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)do so at their own risk.
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)Let's move into the future. He will not win a primary in 20...he just won't. Glad he supports us in the Senate...that's it.
George II
(67,782 posts)Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #74)
Post removed
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)lapucelle
(18,037 posts)ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)You pegged a poster for a spelling error. Did that make your day?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... spelling doesn't count (as long as the meaning is relatively clear and it doesn't interfere with communication).
sheshe2
(83,335 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)haydukelives
(1,229 posts)interesting responce
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)is about the ACA...his bill has no chance to pass for years.
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)So popular! 10% more than Trump and Pence!
Popularity contests are so important! If only votes mattered as much!
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Nurse Jackie, you owe me a keyboard!
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)About what I thought.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... nice try though.
sheshe2
(83,335 posts)K
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,207 posts)riversedge
(69,721 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)First of all, that the Senate Democrats did not make the choice entirely. They probably put up Klobuchar, who is a moderate Democrat, as an alternative voice to Sanders in the debate: she is not a co-sponsor of his bill and will probably be there to argue for the position of "fixing" Obamacare . . . something there may actually be the votes to achieve.
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)murdercare...and KLobuchar is the only one defending our existing healthcare the ACA...the only one we have or can get for years? This is a shit show.
lapucelle
(18,037 posts)WASHINGTON - The chief sponsors of the GOP's 11th hour effort to curtail the Affordable Care Act will debate two of their Senate opponents, Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., on Monday night - an arrangement that surprised some of Sanders's Democratic colleagues, who learned about the debate when host network CNN blasted out a news release.
According to Sanders spokesman Josh Miller-Lewis, CNN came to the senator with the idea earlier in the week, and Sanders signed on without hesitation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/09/21/sanders-and-klobuchar-book-cnn-debate-with-cassidy-and-graham/?utm_term=.2a6c6fc3dbbb
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)lapucelle
(18,037 posts)According to Sanders' spokesman, it seems that Democrats may have been out of the loop when the initial offer was made by CNN.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)bagelsforbreakfast
(1,427 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)brooklynite
(93,851 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)He's still a Republican.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)His judgement is not that of a partisan hack.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,272 posts)But you are correct. Gergen isn't a political hack. He would never pen long screeds in one cycle about how a candidate is an unfit habitual liar with fatal character flaws and then turn around two cycles later saying that candidate is the best candidate ever. That is how a political hack acts.
Gergen is no flunkie trotted out to make the other side look bad.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Thus, you start out every debate by losing it.
That's OK though, keep being who you are.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)However the post I'm replying to...
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)He tried to make it about me.
Perhaps you don't understand what Ad hominem means. I suggest you research.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)The post you declared was an Ad Hom was directed at your position, not at you directly.
I suggest you take your own advice.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I don't need any advice from you.
haydukelives
(1,229 posts)Republican Presidents and Bill Clinton
SHRED
(28,136 posts)White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.
But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?
brooklynite
(93,851 posts)...then Im going after Bernie as well?
Gergen criticized his tactics, not his ideology.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.
He helped create this mess.
But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Motley13
(3,867 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)I'm like you, if someone is smart I'm not so insufferably tribal that I can't listen to what they have to say.
Response to Motley13 (Reply #13)
m-lekktor This message was self-deleted by its author.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)his judgement is pretty good. Hes certainly human and has been wrong but his judgement is solid.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Stop ego tripping and let the repukes sink themselves.
MontanaMama
(23,238 posts)This isn't over.
R B Garr
(16,920 posts)Chemisse
(30,793 posts)I like Bernie. But he is single-minded, and doesn't have an interest in what is best for the Democratic Party. In addition, he is a divisive force.
Ron Green
(9,821 posts)And the Democratic Party could take some cues from that.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I got hidden for saying the same thing, but it's true.
machoneman
(3,951 posts)by merely showing up. Bad idea Bernie, bad!
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,276 posts)former speechwriter for Nixon, along with Pat Buchanan, Ben Stein and William Safire.
Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)Iggo
(47,487 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,872 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)and I fully expect Ron Paul, too, if he views his vote as critical.
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)for years and putting a target on our back...the GOP will keep the house if we run on single payer.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)the Republicans on the verge of voting no could get pushed back into the yes column.
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)Last edited Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)
MFA...I was sorry to see what happened with your Post. I thought it was fair and spot on.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But I'm politically sophisticated enough to know that Bernie Sanders is not going to secure single payer tomorrow night in a debate with Lindsey Graham.
Timing matters. His timing is off. Why can't you see that? And why do you assume that anyone who does see it is trying to "save us all from socialized medicine?"
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)I have nothing against socialism in fact...but it is a dog whistle. I thought I was clear...but I will check the post. The GOP are already engaged in smearing single payer complete with 'death panels'...I want universal coverage...single payer is but one method. The timing of introducing this bill was awful as it has no shot at passing and won't until we get a super majority... that could take years. I also believe medicare for all will fail no matter what because too many still get healthcare at the workplace;they will not willingly give up this insurance (think Hillary care) and of course Americans do not like taxes and will balk at the money required for medicare for all Americans...insure those who need private insurance with a public option, give people medicare at 55 to help reduce their costs and let's concentrate on forcing the insurance industry to reign in costs...also Pharma. We will get to a system that is not pure single payer but will provide universal coverage and be cheaper and better than today...also, much of it is possible under reconciliation so we don't have to wait for a super majority...which we have had twice in 30 + years.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I fear you may be right, but we must keep fighting anyway. Even if we don't get everything we want right away, we can get closer toward a more perfect system.
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)and would support single payer in a heartbeat if it could pass. We can use the ACA to help in this endeavor...not only will thousands die if murdercare wins, our hope of universal coverge evaporates too...nothing to build on..a stand alone bill of any sort could take years.
former9thward
(31,802 posts)Counselor to President Bill Clinton and Secretary of State Warren Christopher.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,276 posts)He also worked for Ford, G.H.W. Bush and Reagan. The fact he worked for Clinton too doesn't make him a Democrat; he's just not as bad as some Republicans.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)You will have to come up with something solid.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,276 posts)as a long-time Republican he has a bias in that direction, which he has displayed many times. He has been savage toward Trump, like a lot of old-school Republicans, and good for him. He has even occasionally complimented both Obama and Hillary Clinton. But he has criticized them, particularly Obama, far more often. He's by no means the worst of the GOP-leaning pundits, but his bias does show.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.
But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?
R B Garr
(16,920 posts)Last edited Sun Sep 24, 2017, 02:06 AM - Edit history (1)
which doesn't seem to be the same priority to some as the image of one Senator. Winning a debate is certainly good, and that's what Gergen said. Saving the ACA is the goal and is certainly good. Diversions -- not so good.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.
But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?
former9thward
(31,802 posts)I was not a member of the WH staff and you probably weren't either. That said, I seem to remember he had a fairly active role in the WH during the 90s. But whatever his role I think it was more than "symbolic".
I love the type of debates that Bernie will be part of. We have almost none of them in the U.S. Most of them are two bland talking heads filled with talking points who give dueling boring press conferences.
BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)dealing with radical republicans. Not a knock against him, but let's be real.
Expecting Rain
(811 posts)ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)by executing a mentally impaired black man.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)lapucelle
(18,037 posts)ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Votes are private. If the admin of this board wants to ask that, well they can....but you? Just. No.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Because the RULES are if you feel a post is against the TOS....alert. Otherwise.....pipe down. Thank you so much.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Night!
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Squinch
(50,773 posts)Do you talk to people like that in your real life?
melman
(7,681 posts)It's just not.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)So answering "yes" to the question will not cause any problems, quite the opposite
It's only a problem if the answer is no...
The answer is not the point. It's not your place to ask.
It's just not appropriate to interrogate other members like that. Not for you, not for me, not for anyone.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)interesting..
melman
(7,681 posts)It's really pretty simple.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)And that is very important information to have in evaluating their point of view.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Who are you to question what another DUer can say?
George Eliot
(701 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)As Skinner himself has said
JI7
(89,173 posts)that should not be questioned .
Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)at play, and got us here.
It's a cheap deflection to ignore that reality. The defensiveness is an answer.
Squinch
(50,773 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)He's a POS.
White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.
But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?
BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)Sorry he upset you but it doesnt change my view of Gergen one iota.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)He's the one analyst that both Dems and Republicans listen to.
Watch the body language on the CNN panel when he speaks.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,276 posts)Only one Democrat. He dumped all over Obama throughout his administration and was among those who whined about Hillary's emails. He's less odious than a lot of Republican pundits, but he's still a Republican.
Nanjeanne
(4,878 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)That alone gets him support in some quarters.
Know what I mean, Vern?
lapucelle
(18,037 posts)Gergen's point was about strategy, not personality.
From the CNN transcript:
GERGEN: "I do want to go back to this health care thing. If the Democrats make this a debate between single payer and the Republican Cassidy-Graham bill, they will very likely lose that debate. They must make -- it's a strategic mistake to allow that to happen. They must make it a debate between Obamacare, the current existing system, which many Americans want to keep now, versus this radical change coming from Republicans. They can win that debate. They would probably lose the single payer debate and the country would be transformed."
Gergen never mentions Sanders.
BERMAN: Which is why --
GERGEN: But it's a Republican bill.
HARLOW: Yes.
BERMAN: Which is why there is concern among Democrats about having Bernie Sanders, the senator from Vermont, be the face of this debate here on CNN Monday night.
GERGEN: Yes.
BERMAN: It will be very interesting to see. David Gergen, Caitlin, thanks to both of you very, very much.
End of segment
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1709/22/cnr.02.html
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Gergen delivers an inaccurate and full on assumption and people here jump right on the bandwagon.
Gergen is a piece of shit who has helped ruin this country.
White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are but as long as he's going after Bernie apparently all that doesn't matter.
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)wryter2000
(46,016 posts)However, if Bernie sticks to the horrors of Trumpcare, there won't be any problem.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.
But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)A POS can be right, like a broken clock. I don't mean to "go after Bernie," but if Bernie tries to make this debate about single-payer, he can seriously undermine the ACA, which is all we have right now.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)The number one priority is killing Graham Cassidy.
Fuck Gergen and his assumptions.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156335568852908&substory_index=0&id=9124187907
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156352904302908&id=9124187907
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1541830035871995&id=124955570892789
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)So I'm not familiar with these posts. If he's all about killing Graham Cassidy, I'm sure he'll be great.
GentryDixon
(2,944 posts)I got an email today from boldpac.com asking me to thank Bernie for fighting for Medicare for all. I unsubscribed and the reason I gave was I was tired of this non Dem trying to weaken our party.
I followed Bernie for many years back to the Thom Hartman days on KPOJ out of Portland & Air America. I liked his message, and in fact voted for him in the primary. But, after Hillary won, I stood behind her 100%. I could see how he was splitting our party. Even when I supported Bernie before the Primaries, I had any post with the word Bernie, Sanders, Hillary, or Clinton trashed because the infighting on this site was beyond the pale.
Until he actually becomes a DEMOCRAT, I do not want to hear what he has to say. He is distracting from the repeal of the ACA with his M4A. Rep John Conyers, Jr has introduced Medicare for all since 2003.
Link to tweet
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Interesting...
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)that Republicans are more respected here than one of our most recent candidates.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)That is a reputation that smears have a hard time reaching.
Superficial ones like those offered here have no chance.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Voltaire2
(12,625 posts)in the house every session but bad that Sanders introduces his bill in the senate every session.
Ok.
GentryDixon
(2,944 posts)Subject closed.
LexVegas
(6,005 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)That may hurt some feelings here and get some hackles up, but the debate is at best a waste of time.
haveahart
(905 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)Gergen delivers an inaccurate and full on assumption and people here jump right on the bandwagon.
Gergen is a piece of shit who has helped ruin this country.
White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are but as long as he's going after Bernie apparently all that doesn't matter.
BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)So when you get into how things are going to play with voters his opinion is something I value more than Bernie's in that particular context, even though there are many things I would disagree with Gergen about on the whole.
It's the rational, adult approach. It's also why I've enjoyed perspective from Republicans like Rick Wilson and Steve Schmidt during this shit show.
Quixote1818
(28,903 posts)Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)probably cost us the House in 18...we put a target on every Dem candidate by running on single payer when we should run on saving the ACA which people like and which can't be demonized.
DFW
(54,051 posts)It doesn't means he's always right, but he often is.
I only wish this debate had been between two Democrats and two Republicans. Or that and two Independents. But I would have preferred not to have one side of the panel comprised of one Democrat and one independent. The only out is that if Sanders' arguments come across as too extreme, we can always say in desperation that it wasn't a Democrat who said THAT!" Still, that is a nitpicking detail that would sail right over the head of 99% of the people listening, and 99.9% of the people who read about it afterward.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)He's the only Republican TV analyst that I listen to carefully. Many years of top rank experience, both Repub and Dem, and a very sharp guy. Very reasoned.
If Bernie tanks this debate, it will cost him.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.
But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?
samnsara
(17,570 posts)Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)And illuminating
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)not strategic to make this vital debate into anything but an attack on the details of Graham-Cassidy.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Gergen delivers an inaccurate and full on assumption and people here jump right on the bandwagon.
Gergen is a piece of shit who has helped ruin this country.
White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are but as long as he's going after Bernie apparently all that doesn't matter.
Lebam in LA
(1,344 posts)Sanders cares nothing about Democrats, only himself.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)George Eliot
(701 posts)shanny
(6,709 posts)or strategy advice from a Republican is a good plan? Why on earth?
Expecting Rain
(811 posts)for Democrats and supporters of the ACA. Good for CNN as they want "a show."
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Good thing you chimed in.
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)Tikki
(14,537 posts)they have not come up with a health care plan that really could pass the 'JIMMY K TEST' and get
the American people onboard.
Tikki
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)which he probably will sadly...it will help the GOP...I only hope this doesn't cause the ACA to go down. It could.
mobeau69
(11,076 posts)Or Howard Dean?
ellie
(6,927 posts)moron has weighed in, I think it is a fantastic idea.
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)Bernie and Ds should let the G-C bill die, if it hasn't already. Debating that bill vs SBS's proposal could strengthen the G-C position. Let the Rs own their defeat. Don't fight this battle for them.
shanny
(6,709 posts)and his minions now? And from a long-time Republican operative?
Why does anyone think this is smart?
Ilsa
(61,675 posts)Multiple guests on his show, not all of which are Rs or former Rs, and summarized their opinion. It was a political strategy discussion, not advice.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Debating against people that want to repeal it.
Bernie, in my opinion, offers a good example here: he not only supports what we have, he also offers something better. We can't just be "those guys are assholes" and "what we have is good enough." We have to fight like hell for what we have while offering a vision for a better tomorrow.
And a guy who was part of the ACA authoring group and has spent the last thirty years pushing for better is in a great position for that.
bluepen
(620 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)Are you serious?
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Gergen delivers an inaccurate and full on assumption and people here jump right on the bandwagon.
Gergen is a piece of shit who has helped ruin this country.
White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are but as long as he's going after Bernie apparently all that doesn't matter.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Or was it CNN's decision?
Warpy
(110,907 posts)if you completely screw the pooch by repealing the ACA, which is the best deal the for profit insurance industry could ever have expected.
Because if you try to set the clock back to bankrupting anyone who gets sick through no fault of their own, you are going to have to get used to socialized medicine with no escape hatch for your rich owners.
This is a shot across your rotten, corrupt party's bow, buttwipe, and you know it.
DeltaLitProf
(766 posts)The bill is dead.
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)We will find out a lot more than if we did not
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)at the moment. If after we learn so so much about MFA bill that can't pass for years...murdercare passes than it is on Sen. Sanders.
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)R B Garr
(16,920 posts)Seems to me that a good Democrat who actually fought for Obamacare would be a better host. I saw the gleeful look on Graham's face when he mentioned socialism.
Lithos
(26,397 posts)If the debate stops at Obamacare, then the goalposts are set there - you go no further, no improvements. That constrains and will ultimately yield something less than what we have. If you move the goalposts farther back, then it shows that what is there is not enough.
The issue is Obamacare was a compromise and is not perfect. Single-payer as well as fixes to Pharma offer a whole series of ideas which would otherwise never be considered. These are the ideas which improve Obamacare for the benefit of the United States. Not considering these out of hand leaves a lack of ideas on our side whose vacuum will be filled with cruelty of the Republican talking points.
The Republicans learned this along time ago - there is no such thing as the status quo - you keep pushing your position, no matter what. We have to do the same.
As for the question - why Sanders. I believe Sanders got this because he is the Democratic Chair of the Budget Committee and was one of the authors of the ACA. Is this damaging to our brand? Not really. What is damaging is continually pushing him as an "outsider" to the Democratic Party (even though he's not) which given the sentiment of the US electorate turns people off.
elleng
(130,133 posts)so you spend most of your time posting anti-Senator Sanders.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)He can ruthlessly dismantle the Graham bill via simple comparison to the Affordable Care Act. If that's his priority, along with saving coverage for tens of millions, we're fine.
But if he spends more time and emphasis on his own dreamwork, then the Republicans will be salivating to pounce. Prepared to pounce.
Gergen understands that. Sanders might not.
It will be obvious early. If Sanders wanders off track, he won't be able to salvage. The talking points from the other side will already be front and center and a major part of the post debate analysis.
I wouldn't know how to bet this one. I never fully trust Sanders.
JI7
(89,173 posts)which he would have to respond to.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)then vote for murdercare. It is especially appealing (sarcasm) because MFA can't pass without a super majority in Congress and the presidency...we have had this twice in 30 + years. I am sure it is just around the corner, and it is far more imperative to discuss these 'ideas' than save the ACA...after all who cares about a few million dying? (sarcasm)
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Get people behind something they can believe in.
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)secured. Personally, I don't think you will get people behind the MFA...too many people have work insurance.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)The point is to talk about it, set a big goal, draw people into a big idea. Like Kennedy and the trip to the moon. It took years. In the meantime we still had a rocket program.
Same as with the ACA - we can do both. Save the ACA and talk about our vision that every citizen has healthcare as a human right.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)Is there not a talking head you can find to say the world is flat, Trump is God himself, and The Case for Christ was a masterpiece?
Oh... said a former adviser to a lot of Republicans. I'm sure he is philosophically inclined towards a democratic socialist. Find less biased sources maybe.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)and is a sought after advisor from people on both sides of the aisle.
Hes pretty rare in the space he occupies. It doesnt make him infallible, but he is someone whose opinion everyone should take seriously.
George Eliot
(701 posts)He worked for our most centrist-right Democrat, Bill Clinton, who with the help of the DLC became a Wall Street guy who took our party to the right and was the reason much of our base finally left the party in 2016. He's your answer to Sanders?
Sanders is a smart speaker. He speaks honestly, rationally, and sparingly in debates. I do worry about Graham and Cassidy and honesty. I think Gergen is a straight talker but is definitely on the right of the political spectrum. I doubt he is in favor of single payor. Frankly, I've always thought Graham was similar to Gergen in that he's rational but I'm not extolling Graham on this thread either.
He's never been taken seriously here before. Why now?
Rhetorical question of course. The answer couldn't be more obvious.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)here and what everyone thinks?
Its apparent from reading posts under this thread that you are wrong.
melman
(7,681 posts)And it becomes more than apparent that I'm right.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)You said he has never been taken seriously here before
Bam: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141844110
melman
(7,681 posts)JI7
(89,173 posts)melman
(7,681 posts)He has always been considered a clown. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
JI7
(89,173 posts)when he went after republicans.
melman
(7,681 posts)JI7
(89,173 posts)and it was posted here as a positive.
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)trap the GOP has set for him.
Vinca
(50,170 posts)Secondly, maybe Gergen is experiencing the shock of learning a public policy might be debated in public rather than behind closed doors for a change.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)...other than Bernie Sanders knows anything about Public Health? I think you could search high and low in the Democratic party and be hard-pressed to find anybody more committed than Sanders, in removing the profit motive from Public Health. That IS the goal, right...???
.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)...in advancing the cause of 'public health' is quite evident.
.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)ollie10
(2,091 posts)It is counter productive to confuse the issue by going off into the Bernie Care idea.....
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)a proposal and answer questions, when Democrats should strictly be on the offensive against G-C.
Mike Nelson
(9,903 posts)...weird that a Republican is giving Democrats good advice. Yes, it is a bad time for Bernie to debate health care... and, then, another Republican - John McCain - comes along and blows the steam out of the debate sails. Tells me Republicans don't like their President or majority leader very much!
ollie10
(2,091 posts)Cassidy and Graham will try to show how bad Obamacare is.
They don't need any help from the other side....we need to show how Obamacare needs to be strengthened, not destroyed.
Don't let the Rs distract attention away from how bad their bill is.
Bernie Care....that fight can wait until another day. First we need to kill Cassidy-Graham
George Eliot
(701 posts)I'll be interested to hear her comments especially since she represents a segment of America that was key in 2016. I wonder how she came to be the second Democrat?
jalan48
(13,797 posts)" a former adviser to Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton." Looks like he's been playing both sides of the aisle for a long time.
samnsara
(17,570 posts)gulliver
(13,142 posts)I'm hoping Bernie is smart enough to see what Gergen sees. Bernie probably is. He has to know that his presidential ambitions and influence will disappear if he saves Graham/Cassidy by uniting Republicans. We already have Pence trying to scare Republican Senators by saying that a vote against the bill is a "vote for ObamaCare." With Sanders in the mix, he can change that propaganda line to "a vote for Bernie Sanders Socialism."
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)H2O Man
(73,321 posts)very intelligent man. I always respect his opinion. Though I disagree with him on this, I take his insights into account.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)This thread is the who's who of folks determined to destroy his efforts
Not born yesterday
George II
(67,782 posts)I pity Amy Klobuchar, I hope she can get a word in.
R B Garr
(16,920 posts)It's not about introducing single payer to promote one Senator and help the GOP confuse about Obamacare.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)There's only one in this debate.
And people in this thread agree with Gergen.
hatrack
(59,439 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)..creating division with his assumptions people in this thread don't seem to mind.
In fact they cheer him on.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)I find it horrible people here agree with Republican Gergen's divisive assumption.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan
And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton
Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.
But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?
JHB
(37,130 posts)...not counting his statements in or for the Nixon, Ford, and Poppy Bush administrations, what is the percentage where he's been right?
Judging from other Republican pundits, the answer is likely close to zero.
Skittles
(152,964 posts)but who gives a FUCK what David Fucking GERGEN thinks
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)Man_Bear_Pig
(89 posts)samnsara
(17,570 posts)...a place holder for Bernie care. he could scare enuff Nos to turn one.