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factfinder_77

(841 posts)
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 04:10 PM Sep 2017

CNN's Gergen: 'Strategic mistake' for Dems to have Sanders debate healthcare

CNN's David Gergen warned Democrats that “it's a strategic mistake” to have Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) participate in a debate against Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Bill Cassidy (R-La.) on Monday night before a national TV audience.

“If the Democrats make this a debate between single-payer and the Republican Graham/Cassidy bill, they will very likely lose that debate," said Gergen, a former adviser to Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton.

CNN announced Thursday that it will host a town hall-style debate Monday night where senators from both sides of the aisle will face off over the new ObamaCare repeal bill.

The debate will pit Cassidy and Graham, the sponsors of the bill, against Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.).

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/351886-cnns-gergen-strategic-mistake-for-dems-to-have-sanders-debate-healthcare

238 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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CNN's Gergen: 'Strategic mistake' for Dems to have Sanders debate healthcare (Original Post) factfinder_77 Sep 2017 OP
I said this earlier! It's definitely a mistake... he's the wrong person for the job. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #1
Agree. riversedge Sep 2017 #4
Agree . . . peggysue2 Sep 2017 #18
Agree completely. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #144
Agree absolutely! Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #217
AT the same time, what is so disheartening (put aside who is making the argument) Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #10
Well said. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #34
Why? Lordquinton Sep 2017 #39
LOL! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #40
He's the most popular! Is he dreamy too? lunamagica Sep 2017 #49
Interesting responce Lordquinton Sep 2017 #59
Yes, very... people who refuse to consider the reasons why Bernie is so popular... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #74
Can I just say that I don't care if Sen. Sanders is popular or not...what difference does it make? Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #159
Taylor Swift is popular too, wonder how she feels about the state of our healthcare insurance system George II Sep 2017 #171
Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #175
huh?? InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #176
Ha! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #64
You're so smart that I bet you can spell "response" correctly. lapucelle Sep 2017 #71
HAHAHAHAHAHA ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #78
Normally, in the course of an actual discussion... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #108
... sheshe2 Sep 2017 #169
Feel the bern! George II Sep 2017 #174
Risponse? George II Sep 2017 #173
... lunamagica Sep 2017 #83
Another haydukelives Sep 2017 #151
Really? How so? Why is it interesting do you? NurseJackie Sep 2017 #154
No, if he goes on and on about single payer, we are screwed...I hope he understands this Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #109
Apparently he's sooooo dreamy! Ninsianna Sep 2017 #136
I can't wait to see him in the cover of Tiger Beat Magazine lunamagica Sep 2017 #143
Ask and you shall receive. (Google search can find anything!) NurseJackie Sep 2017 #153
Oh, snap! lunamagica Sep 2017 #157
No answer? Lordquinton Sep 2017 #60
I'm smarter than you think... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #65
Harvard/Harris poll? sheshe2 Sep 2017 #168
Agree. The Dems should listen to Gergan. Alice11111 Sep 2017 #203
+ a million. Tarheel_Dem Sep 2017 #215
Who or How was it determined that Bernie and Amy would represent the Dems?? Anyone know? riversedge Sep 2017 #2
My guess is this frazzled Sep 2017 #14
So are we looking at a scenario where Sen. Sanders promotes MFA and Graham promotes Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #110
Here's what the Washington Post is reporting: lapucelle Sep 2017 #55
So why are Democrats being blamed for this? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #139
That's a great question. lapucelle Sep 2017 #141
I read somewhere that CNN invited them. n/t pnwmom Sep 2017 #130
Isn't Gergen a Republican? n/m bagelsforbreakfast Sep 2017 #3
He most certainly is melman Sep 2017 #6
Gergen has worked for both Democratic and Republican Presidents. brooklynite Sep 2017 #20
That's nice melman Sep 2017 #75
If he happens to be registered that way its irrelevant. stevenleser Sep 2017 #121
How someone is registered only matters when that person is Bernie. Amirite? Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #132
LOL, you never surprise me. I know any response from you will have ad hominems against me. stevenleser Sep 2017 #137
There were no ad-homs in the post you're replying to Lordquinton Sep 2017 #142
There are. This is a discussion about Gergen and perhaps Bernie. Not about me. stevenleser Sep 2017 #146
And there's another one Lordquinton Sep 2017 #147
No, it was not directed at my position, it was directed at me personally. stevenleser Sep 2017 #150
He worked for haydukelives Sep 2017 #152
The breakdown... SHRED Sep 2017 #195
So if I say This is the wrong time for Sanders to bring up Single-Payer... brooklynite Sep 2017 #221
He's a piece of shit SHRED Sep 2017 #191
Oh okay... I trust what he says (not). InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #73
He is a reasonable one though, I value his opinion Motley13 Sep 2017 #13
He's very wise BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author m-lekktor Sep 2017 #27
Hes non-ideological. Attempting to smear him doesnt change the fact that stevenleser Sep 2017 #120
The bill is already apparently dead, but Bernie will give the repukes socialism ammo to use NightWatcher Sep 2017 #5
It isn't over until after October 1st. MontanaMama Sep 2017 #8
++++++++Exactly R B Garr Sep 2017 #35
Exactly. Chemisse Sep 2017 #107
He has an interest in what is best for the American people. Ron Green Sep 2017 #145
You're right EffieBlack Sep 2017 #211
Yes, he'll give ammo and lots of it to the republiscums.... machoneman Sep 2017 #161
Says David Gergen, Republican and The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #7
And McCain is already a no. So the debate is now Single payer v Bupkis. nt Xipe Totec Sep 2017 #9
Nobody's "already a no" until after they vote. (n/t) Iggo Sep 2017 #19
So ping me after the vote. nt Xipe Totec Sep 2017 #21
You think single payer is coming up for a vote anytime soon? bettyellen Sep 2017 #31
Yes. I won't trust this is over till Sept. 30. Anyone could change their mind pnwmom Sep 2017 #140
McCain could change his mind...and there is no point in debating a bill that cannot pass Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #111
And if on Monday Bernie focuses on his single payer bill and comes across too strident or wacky EffieBlack Sep 2017 #213
I know to save us all from gasp ...socialized medicine which is how the GOP will demonize Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #219
I've been fighting for single payer for decades EffieBlack Sep 2017 #225
You miss the point. this is how the GOP will demonize single payer...as socialized medicine. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #226
I may have misundestood you. EffieBlack Sep 2017 #227
I plan to fight for universal coverage whatever the form... Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #231
Why did you leave off his service for Bill Clinton? former9thward Sep 2017 #22
He's still a Republican. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #26
That attempt to discredit wont work with Gergen. Sorry. stevenleser Sep 2017 #122
I'm not trying to discredit him; I'm merely pointing out that The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #149
OFFS SHRED Sep 2017 #198
Yup, and notice what he's saying actually helps Democrats, R B Garr Sep 2017 #212
Because... SHRED Sep 2017 #197
Well I doubt either one of us knows exactly what Gergen did for Clinton. former9thward Sep 2017 #222
He also worked in the Clinton admin BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #24
that figures. nt m-lekktor Sep 2017 #29
What does that mean? BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #36
Clinton was a middle-right Democrat wellst0nev0ter Sep 2017 #46
Huh? You're calling Bill Clinton a right-winger??? Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #48
Few more question marks needed ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #79
He proved his bona fides wellst0nev0ter Sep 2017 #89
Did you vote for Hillary Clinton in the GE? lunamagica Sep 2017 #61
Crickets...that figures. lapucelle Sep 2017 #67
And you are who to ask? ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #81
It's against the TOS to post here if you didn't vote for Hillary lunamagica Sep 2017 #82
Then let Skinner deal with that ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #84
So I need to "pipe down" but you get to tell me whhat to post? That's rich! lunamagica Sep 2017 #85
Gosh looks like bedtime for you ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #86
Nighty night! lunamagica Sep 2017 #88
Is there any reason why you feel the need to make your posts so disrespectful and dismissive? Squinch Sep 2017 #235
That doesn't make it appropriate to be asking that melman Sep 2017 #92
Why not? The answer is very easy. This is a Democratic website, for people who vote for Democrats lunamagica Sep 2017 #93
No melman Sep 2017 #94
Well I find strange that asking a simple questioon like that is "inapropiate" lunamagica Sep 2017 #95
It's not that interesting at all melman Sep 2017 #96
Its an appropriate question and apparently a problem for that person to answer stevenleser Sep 2017 #124
Everyone here has the right to ask. Thats part of the point of being here stevenleser Sep 2017 #123
Ask it. But it's a cheap question. No one owes an answer. George Eliot Sep 2017 #131
Nope, not a cheap question. Goes to the heart of whether one should be here stevenleser Sep 2017 #181
this is a partisan political board. it's stupid to think that's something JI7 Sep 2017 #206
Not a cheap question at all, especially considering the rather toxic atmosphere that has been Ninsianna Sep 2017 #237
And who are YOU to be telling another poster what they can and cannot ask? Squinch Sep 2017 #234
Symbolic SHRED Sep 2017 #187
Yeah, it's just fine. BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #190
Nixon and Reagan were great! SHRED Sep 2017 #193
If you say so. BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #194
Gergen has worked for Democratic and Republican presidents. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #38
Four Republicans: Nixon, Ford, Reagan and G.H.W. Bush. The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2017 #43
Oh well if David Gergen says it that means case closed. Nanjeanne Sep 2017 #11
And he's against Sanders left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #45
"It's a strategic mistake..." lapucelle Sep 2017 #63
Gergen's strategies have helped ruin this country SHRED Sep 2017 #200
K&R Gothmog Sep 2017 #12
I have to agree with Gergen wryter2000 Sep 2017 #15
Gergen is a POS SHRED Sep 2017 #189
I agree he's a POS wryter2000 Sep 2017 #228
He is onboard SHRED Sep 2017 #229
I don't really do Facebook wryter2000 Sep 2017 #233
I agree. GentryDixon Sep 2017 #16
You'll listen to a Republican though? Lordquinton Sep 2017 #41
The man is a truth-teller. I don't agree with his politics, but he knows politics and has no agenda. kerry-is-my-prez Sep 2017 #50
Sad Lordquinton Sep 2017 #62
Not sad at all. Gergen has demonstrated good judgement and sense for 50 years stevenleser Sep 2017 #126
Yep. 100% correct. nt stevenleser Sep 2017 #125
So it is good that Conyers introduces his bill Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #118
At the time he did for this one. Yes. GentryDixon Sep 2017 #119
Spot on. nt LexVegas Sep 2017 #17
Gergen is spot on as he often is. BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #25
Gergen can speak for me more often than Bernie can. Gergen is right about this one. haveahart Sep 2017 #30
Oh really? SHRED Sep 2017 #202
I think Gergen has better instincts than Bernie. BannonsLiver Sep 2017 #210
With all due respect Gergan, I believe this will be our finest hour Quixote1818 Sep 2017 #28
right...because we are always at our best when we do something that will Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #113
Gergen has been around for a LONG time DFW Sep 2017 #32
I agree with Gergen. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #33
Uhh... SHRED Sep 2017 #196
please dear gawd reschedule it! samnsara Sep 2017 #37
It will be awful for our side. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #114
This thread is embarrassing Lordquinton Sep 2017 #42
Are you not able to distinguish between strategy for and opinion of a policy? It is WinkyDink Sep 2017 #102
Oh yeah...I'm sure Gergen is here to "help" SHRED Sep 2017 #204
I agree Lebam in LA Sep 2017 #44
I agree with him. Big, BIG mistake lunamagica Sep 2017 #47
Sanders will bring ratings. That's a good thing for single payor. George Eliot Sep 2017 #135
Do you think taking policy shanny Sep 2017 #51
Independant of Mr Gergen, I also feel the choice of Sanders is a strategic mistake... Expecting Rain Sep 2017 #52
Well Shit ChubbyStar Sep 2017 #87
He is there so Graham can take him down...and CNN gets good ratings in the process. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #115
I do NOT believe it is a mistake to ask the repugs why after 8 years... Tikki Sep 2017 #53
They invited Sen. Sanders so he could go on and on about single payer Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #116
Wtf is Sylvia Burwell doing Monday night? mobeau69 Sep 2017 #54
Well now that this ellie Sep 2017 #56
Pretty much everyone on Morning Joe said the same thing. Ilsa Sep 2017 #57
We're taking advice from Joe Scar shanny Sep 2017 #112
I did not say that. I said there was a consensus of opinion from Ilsa Sep 2017 #166
One of the people who helped write the ACA Nevernose Sep 2017 #58
Spot on, but the ACA will survive. Thankfully. bluepen Sep 2017 #66
Advice from a Nixon speech writer? ZX86 Sep 2017 #68
They are serious SHRED Sep 2017 #199
Did the Democrats ask Sanders to do the debate? NobodyHere Sep 2017 #69
You just know you're being warned, asshole, about what you and your owners can expect Warpy Sep 2017 #70
Why would this debate continue? DeltaLitProf Sep 2017 #72
If the Democrats make this a debate between single-payer and the Republican Graham/Cassidy bill..... Not Ruth Sep 2017 #76
Find out what? How to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...the GOP billl is going nowhere Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #160
It is a debate between the people that wrote the bills Not Ruth Sep 2017 #165
It's a debate for or against Graham-Cassidy. That's the bill up for a vote. Nothing else. George II Sep 2017 #172
Exactly. CNN's title is "The Fight to Save Obamacare" R B Garr Sep 2017 #224
the problem I have with this is the alternative Lithos Sep 2017 #77
You appear to have nothing useful to do, elleng Sep 2017 #80
It will certainly be a test of Sanders' instincts Awsi Dooger Sep 2017 #90
that's assuming Graham and Cassidy aren't going to lie and throw out bs arguments of their own JI7 Sep 2017 #99
Disagree with Gergen. Talk about ideas! Give people a path forward! sharedvalues Sep 2017 #91
Yeah, make a passionate plea for single payer so you scare the crap out of moderate GOP and they Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #162
Ideas. Not just the party of no. sharedvalues Sep 2017 #188
I would rather save the ACA which is what this is about...work on the single payer after the ACA is Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #220
Single payer won't happen now sharedvalues Sep 2017 #232
why does this person's opinion matter? Is he somebody we hold in high regard in progressive circles? JCanete Sep 2017 #97
He is someone who has demonstrated good judgement for over 50 years stevenleser Sep 2017 #127
He is someone who has debated Democrats for fifty years. George Eliot Sep 2017 #133
lol melman Sep 2017 #134
Lol, you are speaking for all of DU as if you know all discussions stevenleser Sep 2017 #179
All one has to do is search his name melman Sep 2017 #180
First hit shows people agreeing with Gergen, you are wrong stevenleser Sep 2017 #182
And here's three threads where he's being trashed melman Sep 2017 #183
there have also been positive threads about him when he went after republicans JI7 Sep 2017 #192
He's been mocked here since the days of the Daily Howler and MWO melman Sep 2017 #201
no he hasn't. it was based on what he said. but he would equally get positive reaction JI7 Sep 2017 #205
Yes he absolutely has melman Sep 2017 #207
no, that's why you had to reach back 5+ years to find things. he has mostly been critical of trump JI7 Sep 2017 #208
It logical...this debate is a bad idea...I am hoping Sen. Sanders does not fall into the obvious Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #163
For starters, the Democrats aren't having Bernie debate anything. Vinca Sep 2017 #98
Who in America... CanSocDem Sep 2017 #100
Dr. Howard Dean? Hillary Clinton? WinkyDink Sep 2017 #103
Their record... CanSocDem Sep 2017 #105
Your meaning being? If sarcasm, Bernie's success is where? If serious, then why ask "WHO ELSE..."? WinkyDink Sep 2017 #117
Not really. You think there is no profit with Medicare? WinkyDink Sep 2017 #104
The goal of the debate is to defeat CassidyGraham ollie10 Sep 2017 #129
I agree. Why add ANYthing even SLIGHTLY controversial and/or new? Then WE have to defend WinkyDink Sep 2017 #101
How weird... Mike Nelson Sep 2017 #106
The issue is Cassidy-Graham.... ollie10 Sep 2017 #128
Seems a disdain Sanders debate for some.Amy K, pro Kestone, there to tame the independent I imagine. George Eliot Sep 2017 #138
So says Gergen..... jalan48 Sep 2017 #148
PLEASE postpone this! samnsara Sep 2017 #155
If anyone can save Graham/Cassidy it's Bernie gulliver Sep 2017 #156
Thank you for saying this. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #164
Mr. Gergen is a H2O Man Sep 2017 #158
Doesn't matter how Bernie does, the Haters Club will trash him Arazi Sep 2017 #167
I don't even see the point of this "debate", it's not going to accomplish anything at this time. George II Sep 2017 #170
+1, The title for it on CNN is "The Fight to save Obamacare" R B Garr Sep 2017 #223
"...Gergen warned Democrats ..." SHRED Sep 2017 #177
David Gergen - like David Brooks, but older and with less self-awareness . . . hatrack Sep 2017 #178
As long as he's... SHRED Sep 2017 #184
"If" SHRED Sep 2017 #185
I admire how much into unity you are! Vive la vida UNITED! right? Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #218
Why would ANYONE here respect this guy? SHRED Sep 2017 #186
If we take a survey of Gergen's opinions... JHB Sep 2017 #209
I am not a rabid fan of Bernie Sanders Skittles Sep 2017 #214
Some things are so obvious/logical/commonsense they are noticed by everyone including non-DEMS. Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #216
Interesting Man_Bear_Pig Sep 2017 #230
graham is already telling everyone that obamacare is just... samnsara Sep 2017 #236
Wow! So much silence George Eliot Sep 2017 #238

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
10. AT the same time, what is so disheartening (put aside who is making the argument)
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 04:27 PM
Sep 2017

is how hard it is to convince half of this country they are better off without a for profit corporation deciding their healthcare access.

This is ridiculous, we should not have to argue about who is making the argument, there should be NO argument.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
34. Well said.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 06:40 PM
Sep 2017

As long as who makes the argument, does a very good job making the argument, and not stray from the debate's purpose.

The goal - kill the G-C bill, not make the argument for single payer.

Single payer comes later, I hope.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
74. Yes, very... people who refuse to consider the reasons why Bernie is so popular...
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:13 PM
Sep 2017

do so at their own risk.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
159. Can I just say that I don't care if Sen. Sanders is popular or not...what difference does it make?
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 05:49 PM
Sep 2017

Let's move into the future. He will not win a primary in 20...he just won't. Glad he supports us in the Senate...that's it.

George II

(67,782 posts)
171. Taylor Swift is popular too, wonder how she feels about the state of our healthcare insurance system
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 09:10 PM
Sep 2017

Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #74)

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
108. Normally, in the course of an actual discussion...
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 08:00 AM
Sep 2017

... spelling doesn't count (as long as the meaning is relatively clear and it doesn't interfere with communication).

You pegged a poster for a spelling error.
It's been my observation that if someone is engaged in throwing shade, and making jabs with veiled insults and innuendo... if they're making an attempt to dominate by virtue of their wit and cleverness... then commenting on their spelling (or misspelling) is fair game.

Did that make your day?
Best guess: It was likely not the most important highlight of their day, but satisfying nonetheless.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
109. No, if he goes on and on about single payer, we are screwed...I hope he understands this
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 08:09 AM
Sep 2017

is about the ACA...his bill has no chance to pass for years.

Ninsianna

(1,349 posts)
136. Apparently he's sooooo dreamy!
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 02:04 PM
Sep 2017

So popular! 10% more than Trump and Pence!

Popularity contests are so important! If only votes mattered as much!

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
14. My guess is this
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 04:41 PM
Sep 2017

First of all, that the Senate Democrats did not make the choice entirely. They probably put up Klobuchar, who is a moderate Democrat, as an alternative voice to Sanders in the debate: she is not a co-sponsor of his bill and will probably be there to argue for the position of "fixing" Obamacare . . . something there may actually be the votes to achieve.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
110. So are we looking at a scenario where Sen. Sanders promotes MFA and Graham promotes
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 08:11 AM
Sep 2017

murdercare...and KLobuchar is the only one defending our existing healthcare the ACA...the only one we have or can get for years? This is a shit show.

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
55. Here's what the Washington Post is reporting:
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 09:20 PM
Sep 2017
WASHINGTON - The chief sponsors of the GOP's 11th hour effort to curtail the Affordable Care Act will debate two of their Senate opponents, Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., on Monday night - an arrangement that surprised some of Sanders's Democratic colleagues, who learned about the debate when host network CNN blasted out a news release.

According to Sanders spokesman Josh Miller-Lewis, CNN came to the senator with the idea earlier in the week, and Sanders signed on without hesitation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/09/21/sanders-and-klobuchar-book-cnn-debate-with-cassidy-and-graham/?utm_term=.2a6c6fc3dbbb

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
141. That's a great question.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 02:18 PM
Sep 2017

According to Sanders' spokesman, it seems that Democrats may have been out of the loop when the initial offer was made by CNN.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
121. If he happens to be registered that way its irrelevant.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 12:49 PM
Sep 2017

His judgement is not that of a partisan hack.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
132. How someone is registered only matters when that person is Bernie. Amirite?
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 01:51 PM
Sep 2017

But you are correct. Gergen isn't a political hack. He would never pen long screeds in one cycle about how a candidate is an unfit habitual liar with fatal character flaws and then turn around two cycles later saying that candidate is the best candidate ever. That is how a political hack acts.

Gergen is no flunkie trotted out to make the other side look bad.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
137. LOL, you never surprise me. I know any response from you will have ad hominems against me.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 02:06 PM
Sep 2017

Thus, you start out every debate by losing it.

That's OK though, keep being who you are.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
146. There are. This is a discussion about Gergen and perhaps Bernie. Not about me.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 03:39 PM
Sep 2017

He tried to make it about me.

Perhaps you don't understand what Ad hominem means. I suggest you research.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
147. And there's another one
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 03:47 PM
Sep 2017

The post you declared was an Ad Hom was directed at your position, not at you directly.

I suggest you take your own advice.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
150. No, it was not directed at my position, it was directed at me personally.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 03:59 PM
Sep 2017

I don't need any advice from you.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
195. The breakdown...
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:12 AM
Sep 2017

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.

But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?

brooklynite

(93,851 posts)
221. So if I say This is the wrong time for Sanders to bring up Single-Payer...
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 09:40 AM
Sep 2017

...then I’m “going after Bernie” as well?

Gergen criticized his tactics, not his ideology.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
191. He's a piece of shit
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:10 AM
Sep 2017

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.
He helped create this mess.

But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?

BannonsLiver

(16,161 posts)
23. He's very wise
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 06:15 PM
Sep 2017

I'm like you, if someone is smart I'm not so insufferably tribal that I can't listen to what they have to say.

Response to Motley13 (Reply #13)

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
120. Hes non-ideological. Attempting to smear him doesnt change the fact that
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 12:48 PM
Sep 2017

his judgement is pretty good. He’s certainly human and has been wrong but his judgement is solid.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
5. The bill is already apparently dead, but Bernie will give the repukes socialism ammo to use
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 04:19 PM
Sep 2017

Stop ego tripping and let the repukes sink themselves.

Chemisse

(30,793 posts)
107. Exactly.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 07:27 AM
Sep 2017

I like Bernie. But he is single-minded, and doesn't have an interest in what is best for the Democratic Party. In addition, he is a divisive force.

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
145. He has an interest in what is best for the American people.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 03:30 PM
Sep 2017

And the Democratic Party could take some cues from that.

machoneman

(3,951 posts)
161. Yes, he'll give ammo and lots of it to the republiscums....
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 05:57 PM
Sep 2017

by merely showing up. Bad idea Bernie, bad!

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,276 posts)
7. Says David Gergen, Republican and
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 04:23 PM
Sep 2017

former speechwriter for Nixon, along with Pat Buchanan, Ben Stein and William Safire.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
140. Yes. I won't trust this is over till Sept. 30. Anyone could change their mind
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 02:16 PM
Sep 2017

and I fully expect Ron Paul, too, if he views his vote as critical.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
111. McCain could change his mind...and there is no point in debating a bill that cannot pass
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 08:13 AM
Sep 2017

for years and putting a target on our back...the GOP will keep the house if we run on single payer.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
213. And if on Monday Bernie focuses on his single payer bill and comes across too strident or wacky
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 01:29 AM
Sep 2017

the Republicans on the verge of voting no could get pushed back into the yes column.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
219. I know to save us all from gasp ...socialized medicine which is how the GOP will demonize
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 09:30 AM
Sep 2017

Last edited Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)

MFA...I was sorry to see what happened with your Post. I thought it was fair and spot on.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
225. I've been fighting for single payer for decades
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:36 AM
Sep 2017

But I'm politically sophisticated enough to know that Bernie Sanders is not going to secure single payer tomorrow night in a debate with Lindsey Graham.

Timing matters. His timing is off. Why can't you see that? And why do you assume that anyone who does see it is trying to "save us all from socialized medicine?"

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
226. You miss the point. this is how the GOP will demonize single payer...as socialized medicine.
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:17 AM
Sep 2017

I have nothing against socialism in fact...but it is a dog whistle. I thought I was clear...but I will check the post. The GOP are already engaged in smearing single payer complete with 'death panels'...I want universal coverage...single payer is but one method. The timing of introducing this bill was awful as it has no shot at passing and won't until we get a super majority... that could take years. I also believe medicare for all will fail no matter what because too many still get healthcare at the workplace;they will not willingly give up this insurance (think Hillary care) and of course Americans do not like taxes and will balk at the money required for medicare for all Americans...insure those who need private insurance with a public option, give people medicare at 55 to help reduce their costs and let's concentrate on forcing the insurance industry to reign in costs...also Pharma. We will get to a system that is not pure single payer but will provide universal coverage and be cheaper and better than today...also, much of it is possible under reconciliation so we don't have to wait for a super majority...which we have had twice in 30 + years.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
227. I may have misundestood you.
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:26 AM
Sep 2017

I fear you may be right, but we must keep fighting anyway. Even if we don't get everything we want right away, we can get closer toward a more perfect system.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
231. I plan to fight for universal coverage whatever the form...
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:26 PM
Sep 2017

and would support single payer in a heartbeat if it could pass. We can use the ACA to help in this endeavor...not only will thousands die if murdercare wins, our hope of universal coverge evaporates too...nothing to build on..a stand alone bill of any sort could take years.

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
22. Why did you leave off his service for Bill Clinton?
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 06:14 PM
Sep 2017

Counselor to President Bill Clinton and Secretary of State Warren Christopher.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,276 posts)
26. He's still a Republican.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 06:22 PM
Sep 2017

He also worked for Ford, G.H.W. Bush and Reagan. The fact he worked for Clinton too doesn't make him a Democrat; he's just not as bad as some Republicans.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,276 posts)
149. I'm not trying to discredit him; I'm merely pointing out that
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 03:51 PM
Sep 2017

as a long-time Republican he has a bias in that direction, which he has displayed many times. He has been savage toward Trump, like a lot of old-school Republicans, and good for him. He has even occasionally complimented both Obama and Hillary Clinton. But he has criticized them, particularly Obama, far more often. He's by no means the worst of the GOP-leaning pundits, but his bias does show.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
198. OFFS
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:16 AM
Sep 2017

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.

But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
212. Yup, and notice what he's saying actually helps Democrats,
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 01:26 AM
Sep 2017

Last edited Sun Sep 24, 2017, 02:06 AM - Edit history (1)

which doesn't seem to be the same priority to some as the image of one Senator. Winning a debate is certainly good, and that's what Gergen said. Saving the ACA is the goal and is certainly good. Diversions -- not so good.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
197. Because...
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:14 AM
Sep 2017

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.

But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?

former9thward

(31,802 posts)
222. Well I doubt either one of us knows exactly what Gergen did for Clinton.
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:01 AM
Sep 2017

I was not a member of the WH staff and you probably weren't either. That said, I seem to remember he had a fairly active role in the WH during the 90s. But whatever his role I think it was more than "symbolic".

I love the type of debates that Bernie will be part of. We have almost none of them in the U.S. Most of them are two bland talking heads filled with talking points who give dueling boring press conferences.

 

wellst0nev0ter

(7,509 posts)
46. Clinton was a middle-right Democrat
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 07:30 PM
Sep 2017

dealing with radical republicans. Not a knock against him, but let's be real.

ChubbyStar

(3,191 posts)
81. And you are who to ask?
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:45 PM
Sep 2017

Votes are private. If the admin of this board wants to ask that, well they can....but you? Just. No.

ChubbyStar

(3,191 posts)
84. Then let Skinner deal with that
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:52 PM
Sep 2017

Because the RULES are if you feel a post is against the TOS....alert. Otherwise.....pipe down. Thank you so much.

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
235. Is there any reason why you feel the need to make your posts so disrespectful and dismissive?
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 06:13 PM
Sep 2017

Do you talk to people like that in your real life?

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
93. Why not? The answer is very easy. This is a Democratic website, for people who vote for Democrats
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 01:28 AM
Sep 2017

So answering "yes" to the question will not cause any problems, quite the opposite

It's only a problem if the answer is no...

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
94. No
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 01:33 AM
Sep 2017

The answer is not the point. It's not your place to ask.

It's just not appropriate to interrogate other members like that. Not for you, not for me, not for anyone.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
124. Its an appropriate question and apparently a problem for that person to answer
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 12:52 PM
Sep 2017

And that is very important information to have in evaluating their point of view.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
123. Everyone here has the right to ask. Thats part of the point of being here
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 12:51 PM
Sep 2017

Who are you to question what another DUer can say?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
181. Nope, not a cheap question. Goes to the heart of whether one should be here
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 11:03 PM
Sep 2017

As Skinner himself has said

JI7

(89,173 posts)
206. this is a partisan political board. it's stupid to think that's something
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:39 AM
Sep 2017

that should not be questioned .

Ninsianna

(1,349 posts)
237. Not a cheap question at all, especially considering the rather toxic atmosphere that has been
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 08:30 PM
Sep 2017

at play, and got us here.

It's a cheap deflection to ignore that reality. The defensiveness is an answer.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
187. Symbolic
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 11:53 PM
Sep 2017

He's a POS.

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.

But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
38. Gergen has worked for Democratic and Republican presidents.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 06:48 PM
Sep 2017

He's the one analyst that both Dems and Republicans listen to.

Watch the body language on the CNN panel when he speaks.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,276 posts)
43. Four Republicans: Nixon, Ford, Reagan and G.H.W. Bush.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 07:07 PM
Sep 2017

Only one Democrat. He dumped all over Obama throughout his administration and was among those who whined about Hillary's emails. He's less odious than a lot of Republican pundits, but he's still a Republican.

lapucelle

(18,037 posts)
63. "It's a strategic mistake..."
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 09:49 PM
Sep 2017

Gergen's point was about strategy, not personality.

From the CNN transcript:

GERGEN: "I do want to go back to this health care thing. If the Democrats make this a debate between single payer and the Republican Cassidy-Graham bill, they will very likely lose that debate. They must make -- it's a strategic mistake to allow that to happen. They must make it a debate between Obamacare, the current existing system, which many Americans want to keep now, versus this radical change coming from Republicans. They can win that debate. They would probably lose the single payer debate and the country would be transformed."

Gergen never mentions Sanders.

BERMAN: Which is why --

GERGEN: But it's a Republican bill.

HARLOW: Yes.

BERMAN: Which is why there is concern among Democrats about having Bernie Sanders, the senator from Vermont, be the face of this debate here on CNN Monday night.

GERGEN: Yes.

BERMAN: It will be very interesting to see. David Gergen, Caitlin, thanks to both of you very, very much.

End of segment
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1709/22/cnr.02.html
 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
200. Gergen's strategies have helped ruin this country
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:21 AM
Sep 2017

Gergen delivers an inaccurate and full on assumption and people here jump right on the bandwagon. 

Gergen is a piece of shit who has helped ruin this country. 

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon 
White House Director of Communications - Ford 
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan 
White House Director of Communications - Reagan 

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton 

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are but as long as he's going after Bernie apparently all that doesn't matter.

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
15. I have to agree with Gergen
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 04:41 PM
Sep 2017

However, if Bernie sticks to the horrors of Trumpcare, there won't be any problem.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
189. Gergen is a POS
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 11:57 PM
Sep 2017

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.

But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
228. I agree he's a POS
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 11:41 AM
Sep 2017

A POS can be right, like a broken clock. I don't mean to "go after Bernie," but if Bernie tries to make this debate about single-payer, he can seriously undermine the ACA, which is all we have right now.

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
233. I don't really do Facebook
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 04:06 PM
Sep 2017

So I'm not familiar with these posts. If he's all about killing Graham Cassidy, I'm sure he'll be great.

GentryDixon

(2,944 posts)
16. I agree.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 04:55 PM
Sep 2017

I got an email today from boldpac.com asking me to thank Bernie for fighting for Medicare for all. I unsubscribed and the reason I gave was I was tired of this non Dem trying to weaken our party.

I followed Bernie for many years back to the Thom Hartman days on KPOJ out of Portland & Air America. I liked his message, and in fact voted for him in the primary. But, after Hillary won, I stood behind her 100%. I could see how he was splitting our party. Even when I supported Bernie before the Primaries, I had any post with the word Bernie, Sanders, Hillary, or Clinton trashed because the infighting on this site was beyond the pale.

Until he actually becomes a DEMOCRAT, I do not want to hear what he has to say. He is distracting from the repeal of the ACA with his M4A. Rep John Conyers, Jr has introduced Medicare for all since 2003.




 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
126. Not sad at all. Gergen has demonstrated good judgement and sense for 50 years
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 12:55 PM
Sep 2017

That is a reputation that smears have a hard time reaching.

Superficial ones like those offered here have no chance.

Voltaire2

(12,625 posts)
118. So it is good that Conyers introduces his bill
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 11:31 AM
Sep 2017

in the house every session but bad that Sanders introduces his bill in the senate every session.

Ok.

BannonsLiver

(16,161 posts)
25. Gergen is spot on as he often is.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 06:18 PM
Sep 2017

That may hurt some feelings here and get some hackles up, but the debate is at best a waste of time.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
202. Oh really?
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:22 AM
Sep 2017

Gergen delivers an inaccurate and full on assumption and people here jump right on the bandwagon. 

Gergen is a piece of shit who has helped ruin this country. 

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon 
White House Director of Communications - Ford 
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan 
White House Director of Communications - Reagan 

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton 

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are but as long as he's going after Bernie apparently all that doesn't matter.

BannonsLiver

(16,161 posts)
210. I think Gergen has better instincts than Bernie.
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 01:10 AM
Sep 2017

So when you get into how things are going to play with voters his opinion is something I value more than Bernie's in that particular context, even though there are many things I would disagree with Gergen about on the whole.

It's the rational, adult approach. It's also why I've enjoyed perspective from Republicans like Rick Wilson and Steve Schmidt during this shit show.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
113. right...because we are always at our best when we do something that will
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 08:17 AM
Sep 2017

probably cost us the House in 18...we put a target on every Dem candidate by running on single payer when we should run on saving the ACA which people like and which can't be demonized.

DFW

(54,051 posts)
32. Gergen has been around for a LONG time
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 06:33 PM
Sep 2017

It doesn't means he's always right, but he often is.

I only wish this debate had been between two Democrats and two Republicans. Or that and two Independents. But I would have preferred not to have one side of the panel comprised of one Democrat and one independent. The only out is that if Sanders' arguments come across as too extreme, we can always say in desperation that it wasn't a Democrat who said THAT!" Still, that is a nitpicking detail that would sail right over the head of 99% of the people listening, and 99.9% of the people who read about it afterward.

kstewart33

(6,551 posts)
33. I agree with Gergen.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 06:38 PM
Sep 2017

He's the only Republican TV analyst that I listen to carefully. Many years of top rank experience, both Repub and Dem, and a very sharp guy. Very reasoned.

If Bernie tanks this debate, it will cost him.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
196. Uhh...
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:13 AM
Sep 2017

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.

But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
102. Are you not able to distinguish between strategy for and opinion of a policy? It is
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 06:37 AM
Sep 2017

not strategic to make this vital debate into anything but an attack on the details of Graham-Cassidy.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
204. Oh yeah...I'm sure Gergen is here to "help"
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:25 AM
Sep 2017

Gergen delivers an inaccurate and full on assumption and people here jump right on the bandwagon. 

Gergen is a piece of shit who has helped ruin this country. 

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon 
White House Director of Communications - Ford 
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan 
White House Director of Communications - Reagan 

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton 

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are but as long as he's going after Bernie apparently all that doesn't matter.

 

Expecting Rain

(811 posts)
52. Independant of Mr Gergen, I also feel the choice of Sanders is a strategic mistake...
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 09:09 PM
Sep 2017

for Democrats and supporters of the ACA. Good for CNN as they want "a show."

Tikki

(14,537 posts)
53. I do NOT believe it is a mistake to ask the repugs why after 8 years...
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 09:15 PM
Sep 2017

they have not come up with a health care plan that really could pass the 'JIMMY K TEST' and get
the American people onboard.


Tikki

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
116. They invited Sen. Sanders so he could go on and on about single payer
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 08:19 AM
Sep 2017

which he probably will sadly...it will help the GOP...I only hope this doesn't cause the ACA to go down. It could.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
57. Pretty much everyone on Morning Joe said the same thing.
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 09:25 PM
Sep 2017

Bernie and Ds should let the G-C bill die, if it hasn't already. Debating that bill vs SBS's proposal could strengthen the G-C position. Let the Rs own their defeat. Don't fight this battle for them.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
112. We're taking advice from Joe Scar
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 08:16 AM
Sep 2017

and his minions now? And from a long-time Republican operative?

Why does anyone think this is smart?

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
166. I did not say that. I said there was a consensus of opinion from
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 06:48 PM
Sep 2017

Multiple guests on his show, not all of which are Rs or former Rs, and summarized their opinion. It was a political strategy discussion, not advice.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
58. One of the people who helped write the ACA
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 09:33 PM
Sep 2017

Debating against people that want to repeal it.

Bernie, in my opinion, offers a good example here: he not only supports what we have, he also offers something better. We can't just be "those guys are assholes" and "what we have is good enough." We have to fight like hell for what we have while offering a vision for a better tomorrow.

And a guy who was part of the ACA authoring group and has spent the last thirty years pushing for better is in a great position for that.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
199. They are serious
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:20 AM
Sep 2017

Gergen delivers an inaccurate and full on assumption and people here jump right on the bandwagon. 

Gergen is a piece of shit who has helped ruin this country. 

White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon 
White House Director of Communications - Ford 
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan 
White House Director of Communications - Reagan 

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton 

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are but as long as he's going after Bernie apparently all that doesn't matter.

Warpy

(110,907 posts)
70. You just know you're being warned, asshole, about what you and your owners can expect
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 10:21 PM
Sep 2017

if you completely screw the pooch by repealing the ACA, which is the best deal the for profit insurance industry could ever have expected.

Because if you try to set the clock back to bankrupting anyone who gets sick through no fault of their own, you are going to have to get used to socialized medicine with no escape hatch for your rich owners.

This is a shot across your rotten, corrupt party's bow, buttwipe, and you know it.

 

Not Ruth

(3,613 posts)
76. If the Democrats make this a debate between single-payer and the Republican Graham/Cassidy bill.....
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:23 PM
Sep 2017

We will find out a lot more than if we did not

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
160. Find out what? How to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...the GOP billl is going nowhere
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 05:53 PM
Sep 2017

at the moment. If after we learn so so much about MFA bill that can't pass for years...murdercare passes than it is on Sen. Sanders.

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
224. Exactly. CNN's title is "The Fight to Save Obamacare"
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:22 AM
Sep 2017

Seems to me that a good Democrat who actually fought for Obamacare would be a better host. I saw the gleeful look on Graham's face when he mentioned socialism.

Lithos

(26,397 posts)
77. the problem I have with this is the alternative
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:30 PM
Sep 2017

If the debate stops at Obamacare, then the goalposts are set there - you go no further, no improvements. That constrains and will ultimately yield something less than what we have. If you move the goalposts farther back, then it shows that what is there is not enough.

The issue is Obamacare was a compromise and is not perfect. Single-payer as well as fixes to Pharma offer a whole series of ideas which would otherwise never be considered. These are the ideas which improve Obamacare for the benefit of the United States. Not considering these out of hand leaves a lack of ideas on our side whose vacuum will be filled with cruelty of the Republican talking points.


The Republicans learned this along time ago - there is no such thing as the status quo - you keep pushing your position, no matter what. We have to do the same.

As for the question - why Sanders. I believe Sanders got this because he is the Democratic Chair of the Budget Committee and was one of the authors of the ACA. Is this damaging to our brand? Not really. What is damaging is continually pushing him as an "outsider" to the Democratic Party (even though he's not) which given the sentiment of the US electorate turns people off.

elleng

(130,133 posts)
80. You appear to have nothing useful to do,
Fri Sep 22, 2017, 11:43 PM
Sep 2017

so you spend most of your time posting anti-Senator Sanders.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
90. It will certainly be a test of Sanders' instincts
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 12:25 AM
Sep 2017

He can ruthlessly dismantle the Graham bill via simple comparison to the Affordable Care Act. If that's his priority, along with saving coverage for tens of millions, we're fine.

But if he spends more time and emphasis on his own dreamwork, then the Republicans will be salivating to pounce. Prepared to pounce.

Gergen understands that. Sanders might not.

It will be obvious early. If Sanders wanders off track, he won't be able to salvage. The talking points from the other side will already be front and center and a major part of the post debate analysis.

I wouldn't know how to bet this one. I never fully trust Sanders.

JI7

(89,173 posts)
99. that's assuming Graham and Cassidy aren't going to lie and throw out bs arguments of their own
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 05:48 AM
Sep 2017

which he would have to respond to.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
162. Yeah, make a passionate plea for single payer so you scare the crap out of moderate GOP and they
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 05:59 PM
Sep 2017

then vote for murdercare. It is especially appealing (sarcasm) because MFA can't pass without a super majority in Congress and the presidency...we have had this twice in 30 + years. I am sure it is just around the corner, and it is far more imperative to discuss these 'ideas' than save the ACA...after all who cares about a few million dying? (sarcasm)

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
220. I would rather save the ACA which is what this is about...work on the single payer after the ACA is
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 09:31 AM
Sep 2017

secured. Personally, I don't think you will get people behind the MFA...too many people have work insurance.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
232. Single payer won't happen now
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 02:02 PM
Sep 2017

The point is to talk about it, set a big goal, draw people into a big idea. Like Kennedy and the trip to the moon. It took years. In the meantime we still had a rocket program.

Same as with the ACA - we can do both. Save the ACA and talk about our vision that every citizen has healthcare as a human right.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
97. why does this person's opinion matter? Is he somebody we hold in high regard in progressive circles?
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 01:48 AM
Sep 2017

Is there not a talking head you can find to say the world is flat, Trump is God himself, and The Case for Christ was a masterpiece?
Oh... said a former adviser to a lot of Republicans. I'm sure he is philosophically inclined towards a democratic socialist. Find less biased sources maybe.
 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
127. He is someone who has demonstrated good judgement for over 50 years
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 12:57 PM
Sep 2017

and is a sought after advisor from people on both sides of the aisle.

He’s pretty rare in the space he occupies. It doesn’t make him infallible, but he is someone whose opinion everyone should take seriously.

George Eliot

(701 posts)
133. He is someone who has debated Democrats for fifty years.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 01:58 PM
Sep 2017

He worked for our most centrist-right Democrat, Bill Clinton, who with the help of the DLC became a Wall Street guy who took our party to the right and was the reason much of our base finally left the party in 2016. He's your answer to Sanders?

Sanders is a smart speaker. He speaks honestly, rationally, and sparingly in debates. I do worry about Graham and Cassidy and honesty. I think Gergen is a straight talker but is definitely on the right of the political spectrum. I doubt he is in favor of single payor. Frankly, I've always thought Graham was similar to Gergen in that he's rational but I'm not extolling Graham on this thread either.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
134. lol
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 01:59 PM
Sep 2017

He's never been taken seriously here before. Why now?


Rhetorical question of course. The answer couldn't be more obvious.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
179. Lol, you are speaking for all of DU as if you know all discussions
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 10:52 PM
Sep 2017

here and what everyone thinks?

It’s apparent from reading posts under this thread that you are wrong.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
201. He's been mocked here since the days of the Daily Howler and MWO
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:22 AM
Sep 2017

He has always been considered a clown. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

JI7

(89,173 posts)
205. no he hasn't. it was based on what he said. but he would equally get positive reaction
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:31 AM
Sep 2017

when he went after republicans.

JI7

(89,173 posts)
208. no, that's why you had to reach back 5+ years to find things. he has mostly been critical of trump
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 12:57 AM
Sep 2017

and it was posted here as a positive.

Demsrule86

(68,348 posts)
163. It logical...this debate is a bad idea...I am hoping Sen. Sanders does not fall into the obvious
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 06:00 PM
Sep 2017

trap the GOP has set for him.

Vinca

(50,170 posts)
98. For starters, the Democrats aren't having Bernie debate anything.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 05:45 AM
Sep 2017

Secondly, maybe Gergen is experiencing the shock of learning a public policy might be debated in public rather than behind closed doors for a change.

 

CanSocDem

(3,286 posts)
100. Who in America...
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 06:30 AM
Sep 2017

...other than Bernie Sanders knows anything about Public Health? I think you could search high and low in the Democratic party and be hard-pressed to find anybody more committed than Sanders, in removing the profit motive from Public Health. That IS the goal, right...???


.
 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
117. Your meaning being? If sarcasm, Bernie's success is where? If serious, then why ask "WHO ELSE..."?
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 10:40 AM
Sep 2017
 

ollie10

(2,091 posts)
129. The goal of the debate is to defeat CassidyGraham
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 01:24 PM
Sep 2017

It is counter productive to confuse the issue by going off into the Bernie Care idea.....

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
101. I agree. Why add ANYthing even SLIGHTLY controversial and/or new? Then WE have to defend
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 06:33 AM
Sep 2017

a proposal and answer questions, when Democrats should strictly be on the offensive against G-C.

Mike Nelson

(9,903 posts)
106. How weird...
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 07:11 AM
Sep 2017

...weird that a Republican is giving Democrats good advice. Yes, it is a bad time for Bernie to debate health care... and, then, another Republican - John McCain - comes along and blows the steam out of the debate sails. Tells me Republicans don't like their President or majority leader very much!

 

ollie10

(2,091 posts)
128. The issue is Cassidy-Graham....
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 01:21 PM
Sep 2017

Cassidy and Graham will try to show how bad Obamacare is.

They don't need any help from the other side....we need to show how Obamacare needs to be strengthened, not destroyed.

Don't let the Rs distract attention away from how bad their bill is.

Bernie Care....that fight can wait until another day. First we need to kill Cassidy-Graham

George Eliot

(701 posts)
138. Seems a disdain Sanders debate for some.Amy K, pro Kestone, there to tame the independent I imagine.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 02:12 PM
Sep 2017

I'll be interested to hear her comments especially since she represents a segment of America that was key in 2016. I wonder how she came to be the second Democrat?

jalan48

(13,797 posts)
148. So says Gergen.....
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 03:51 PM
Sep 2017

" a former adviser to Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton." Looks like he's been playing both sides of the aisle for a long time.

gulliver

(13,142 posts)
156. If anyone can save Graham/Cassidy it's Bernie
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 04:41 PM
Sep 2017

I'm hoping Bernie is smart enough to see what Gergen sees. Bernie probably is. He has to know that his presidential ambitions and influence will disappear if he saves Graham/Cassidy by uniting Republicans. We already have Pence trying to scare Republican Senators by saying that a vote against the bill is a "vote for ObamaCare." With Sanders in the mix, he can change that propaganda line to "a vote for Bernie Sanders Socialism."

H2O Man

(73,321 posts)
158. Mr. Gergen is a
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 05:41 PM
Sep 2017

very intelligent man. I always respect his opinion. Though I disagree with him on this, I take his insights into account.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
167. Doesn't matter how Bernie does, the Haters Club will trash him
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 07:38 PM
Sep 2017

This thread is the who's who of folks determined to destroy his efforts

Not born yesterday

George II

(67,782 posts)
170. I don't even see the point of this "debate", it's not going to accomplish anything at this time.
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 09:08 PM
Sep 2017

I pity Amy Klobuchar, I hope she can get a word in.

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
223. +1, The title for it on CNN is "The Fight to save Obamacare"
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 10:06 AM
Sep 2017

It's not about introducing single payer to promote one Senator and help the GOP confuse about Obamacare.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
177. "...Gergen warned Democrats ..."
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 10:21 PM
Sep 2017

There's only one in this debate.

And people in this thread agree with Gergen.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
184. As long as he's...
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 11:25 PM
Sep 2017

..creating division with his assumptions people in this thread don't seem to mind.
In fact they cheer him on.

 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
186. Why would ANYONE here respect this guy?
Sat Sep 23, 2017, 11:50 PM
Sep 2017


White House Director of Speechwriting - Nixon
White House Director of Communications - Ford
White House Staff Secretary - Reagan
White House Director of Communications - Reagan

And with Bill a symbolic position for a "bipartisan" show..
Counselor to the President - Clinton

Gergen and his ilk are part of why we are where we are.

But as long as he's going after Bernie it's just fine?

JHB

(37,130 posts)
209. If we take a survey of Gergen's opinions...
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 01:04 AM
Sep 2017

...not counting his statements in or for the Nixon, Ford, and Poppy Bush administrations, what is the percentage where he's been right?

Judging from other Republican pundits, the answer is likely close to zero.

samnsara

(17,570 posts)
236. graham is already telling everyone that obamacare is just...
Sun Sep 24, 2017, 06:39 PM
Sep 2017

...a place holder for Bernie care. he could scare enuff Nos to turn one.

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