Michael Vick is the Face of Dog Fighting, Like it or Not. It could have been Bing Crosby,

[Mike 03]

but it wasn't.

People who love dogs have a naturally visceral hatred for people who murder dogs, and I am sorry but this comes from the heart, having volunteered at animal shelters and written on the topic of dogfighting for almost a decade.

There are a ton of ugly images in this world, and one of the images most people hate is the image of canines ripping each other to shreds because they have been conditioned to do so, not because they harbor any intrinsic desire to do so.

Please, I don't care how Democratic you are, there is no fucking excuse to condone dog fighting.

[PBS Poll-435]

1. Is he still having dogs fight?

Has he served his sentence?


This is all so strange to me.

[rfranklin]

17. He is a shit...

no matter what.

[emilyg]

48. Yes he is and always will be to me.

[JuniperLea]

I find that comment disturbing...

Even Pilot couldn't wash his hands of the blood. Serving a sentence doesn't magically wash the blood from one's hands, nor does it correct a mental deficiency.

[JuniperLea]

74. That would be Pilate...

Pontius Pilate... darn spell check!

[Taverner]

2. Did Bing Crosby run dogfighting rings?

[DJ13]

5. He did it behind the Holiday Inn

Also ran a crooked crap game.

[Taverner]

31. I'm sure you're right, but do you have any links?

[DJ13]

57. No, 'twas a joke

Not a good one, I'll admit.

[Taverner]

66. Sigh - and here I was ready to play in Bing's crooked card game...

[Ken Burch]

42. Every Sunday, right after Mass.

Barry Fitzgerald was in on it, too.

[roguevalley]

51. no, he beat his children. Two of them committed suicide. He

was one of the most hated men in Hollywood. A friend of mine, very elderly was a make up woman at the time and said he was vile. He betted in a pool about the day his first wife would die of her cancer. Some kind of person, different targets.

[HEyHEY]

64. WHAT?! How the fuck was there enough people to make a pool to bet on that?

That's sickening.

[roguevalley]

72. there were a lot. bad people everywhere. I can't even hear his

music without wanting to puke.

[hlthe2b]

73. Two of them committed suicide? Geebus... I had no idea.

I'd heard he was abusive, but.... my gawd.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynneSin]

4. But is he condoning it now?

Please tell me where Vick is talking about the Joys and Wonders of dogfighting since finishing his sentence.

I mean perhaps the Humane Society can tell me more about it....

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/dogfighting/michael_vick_events.html

March 26, 2010 was a day that many young men from Chicago's west side are not likely to forget.

On that day they gathered at John Marshall High School to hear NFL star and convicted dogfighter Michael Vick talk about his troubled past with dogfighting.

His single message to the crowd: Don't be like me. Don't follow the rest of the crowd. Exercise good judgement. Be a compassionate person.

After his speech, Vick stayed for a 45-minute discussion session with a group of a dozen or so young men whose own past (and present) are similarly steeped in the horrors of dogfighting.

Vick's message has been consistent throughout his nationwide speaking engagements to youth in urban areas as part of his pledge to help The HSUS' End Dogfighting campaign, which seeks to end urban (or "street") dogfighting.

[Crazy Dave]

I truly cannot claim as fact that his heart isn't in it and that he's not sincere

But I do suspect and it is my opinion that everything he does as far as the Humane Society, ASPCA, etc. is all done solely for PR purposes at the direction of his agent, his team management and the NFL.

[LynneSin]

22. He's reaching out to thousands of kids who grew up in a culture where this is ok....

If he can help steer these kids down the right path then good for him.

[Mojorabbit]

49. Is it really such a big sport in the US

that thousands of kids grew up with this?

[gmoney]

70. out of 300 million people, probably...

I'm sure there are backwoods (and urban) areas where the "sport" is pretty commonplace, along with cockfighting, etc.

Growing up in suburban Ohio, there was a house down the road where the oldest son was clearly training birds for cockfighting right in the back yard. I called animal control, but since I was a kid, I don't think they took me seriously. I'm surprised they were allowed to keep livestock in that neighborhood. Anyway, he had some sort of a decoy chicken that he would poke at the roosters so they would strike at it, etc. And that means he must have had some competitors, and they probably had a place to do it, and enough people to gamble on it to make it interesting.

[vi5]

14. I believe in redemption.....

But this was an awfully quick turnaround and with a lot of monetary incentive to do so. He gets caught in 2007 and by 2010 he is fully redeemed, did a complete 180 and is now the face of the anti-dogfighting crowd and we're to believe it's 100% sincere and not an effort to get his career and endorsments back?

I believe in second chances. I really do. And I think he should be given one. I just think it's more than a little early to start lauding him as a role model and even then I'm not entirely sure a guy for whom doing so resulted in millions of dollars is the best example to hold up on either count.

Of all the tales of people who've put an ugly past behind them there are many other examples both low profile and high profile who show the long hard road back from a personal hell even when there was nothing at the end of that road except personal and moral integrity and the ability to hold ones head up high and not a life of riches, fame, and luxury.

[Crazy Dave]

18. If you are poor you can't get a minimum wage job due to a prior marijuana possession arrest

But if you are a rich, superstar asshole who murders animals it's ok with the NFL and the president.

[LynneSin]

23. Not saying he's a role model. Hell not really sure I'm a fan

But I do believe in second chances if he can do it then good for him.

[frylock]

45. beautifully stated

[Lucian]

56. People don't change.

I'm sure if he was given the chance, he'd raise dogs for fighting again.

I don't believe in redemption for scum like him.

[tabasco]

21. Yeah, he got caught.

He's smart enough to say the right things but treating dogs like that reveals an extremely serious character flaw.

Fuck him and his goddamn NFL.

[LynneSin]

24. Then don't watch the NFL - that was easy :D

[JuniperLea]

69. I have a personal ban on both...

I won't watch NFL, and won't buy NFL, period.

Feels right to me.

[Crazy Dave]

25. Rec+

[hlthe2b]

28. Lynnesin, why do you choose to ignore the opinion of the shelter

that actually dealt with the animals and the aftermath of his actions? It doesn't seem like you, yet others have brought this to your attention and you seem to continue to ignore this. Apparently he never reached out to them, offered them money nor his time, nor inquired as to the fate of the animals that they took on. The HUSA is one of several national organization that promotes and fund raises for animal issues. At the local level some HUSA chapters have shelters, but that is not the role of national HUSA. Giving them money and doing some speaking appearances, is a relatively easy thing for someone of his means to do. Yet, it does not necessarily afford him the opportunity to see the animals and the impacts that fighting has on them--to really understand why it is that so many were outraged and why it is that he should be out promoting children to treat animals with compassion and kindness. :shrug:


Francis Battista, co-founder of Best Friends Animal Society, who took in and cared for the dogs Vick tortured, had this to say about Vick's "redemption" in November 2010:
http://blogs.bestfriends.org/index.php/2010/11/18/micha... /

Michael Vick & the Value Proposition
November 18, 2010 - By Francis Battista

LA Times sports reporter Bill Plaschke wrote a compelling piece for yesterday’s paper on the resurgence of Michael Vick as an NFL quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles. Plaschke interviewed the caregiver of Mel, a pit bull and former resident of Best Friends Animal Society—and one of Vick’s former canine victims. Powerful stuff. Plaschke’s article boils down to is this question:

“Essentially, an ex-convict is dominating America’s most popular sport while victims of his previous crime continue to live with the brutality of that crime, and has that ever happened before?

Do you cheer the player and boo the man? Can you cheer the comeback while loathing the actions that necessitated the comeback? And how can you do any of this while not knowing if Vick has truly discovered morality or simply rediscovered the pocket?”

From what we at Best Friends know of the way Michael Vick has related to the animals he abused, the answer is clearly that he has “simply rediscovered the pocket.” Best Friends took 22 of Vick’s 48 seized dogs and the only contact we’ve received from Vick or his representatives was by way of some overtures from his agent, one of his attorneys and a PR firm specializing in reputation rehabilitation. They were interested in some public glad handing that would put Vick in a favorable light with the NFL, which at the time was still considering whether or not to reinstate him. We declined.

Best Friends has never heard from Michael Vick or any of his representatives inquiring after the health or well being of any of the 22 dogs that we received from his fighting ring.

According to the law, Michael Vick has paid his debt to society. Many would argue though that being free to get on with his life is one thing. Being welcomed into the highly privileged ranks of the NFL is quite another and warrants a much higher threshold of qualification. Plaschke again:

“…a large percentage of the population will still think Michael Vick is a sociopath. Many people will never get over Vick’s own admissions of unthinkable cruelty to his pit bulls — the strangling, the drowning, the electrocutions, the removal of all the teeth of female dogs who would fight back during mating.”

Obviously not a sufficiently large enough percentage of the population feels that way to deter the NFL from allowing someone on the field who many do believe is a sociopath ex-convict as long as he can fill the seats. They wouldn’t do it if they didn’t know they could get away with it.

Despite the fact that America is routinely described as a nation of animal lovers, concern for the lives and well being of those animals doesn’t yet compete with the desire to be entertained. That’s a problem.

It’s a problem because the same imbalance of public opinion that tolerates Michael Vick as a celebrated athlete also tolerates puppy mills, pet stores and shelter killings…each a cause of suffering many magnitudes the scale of Michael Vicks crimes and in some cases the same order of depravity.

Ending the societal abuse of homeless pets that results in the death of 4 – 5 million animals annually in our shelter system will require more than the heroic efforts of rescuers, it will require recruiting a larger percentage of this nation of animal lovers to a value proposition that places the lives and well being of our animal companions above personal entertainment, the allure of designer breeds and pets as fashion statements. The Michael Vick story is, for me at least, a marker along the way pointing us to the tasks ahead on the road to No More Homeless Pets.

Francis Battista

Co-Founder, Best Friends Animal Society

AND from the co-founder:
From Michael Mountain, the other co-founder of Best Friends Animal Society:
http://www.zoenature.org/2010/12/michael-vick%E2%80%99s...

[cottonseed]

30. Francis says he's rebuffed Vick's overtures, then whine's about not hearing from the guy. WTF?

I read this, "the only contact we’ve received from Vick or his representatives was by way of some overtures from his agent, one of his attorneys and a PR firm specializing in reputation rehabilitation."...

Then this:

"Best Friends has never heard from Michael Vick or any of his representatives inquiring after the health or well being of any of the 22 dogs that we received from his fighting ring."


Francis... pick up the damn phone and start demanding some action.

[hlthe2b]

33. You expect them to provide him a free photo op?

That is what he was seeking. Why on earth would you defend Vick's agents attempts to exploit them after all the work they did with NO help from Vick?

[cottonseed]

34. What I expect is that if Francis wants to talk to Vick, then pick up the damn phone!

What an idiot... How does Francis expect this to go down? Vick shows up with balloons, pit puppies, and wads of money? Get the negotiations started and quit bitching.

[hlthe2b]

35. You are being incredibly ridiculous...

But, I'll simply agree to disagree. Good evening.

[cottonseed]

37. You can agree to disagree. But it would be better if you admit you are wrong.

[hlthe2b]

38. ROFL Hardly, when I am right.

:rofl: I will credit you for a sense of humor, however

[LWolf]

43. His message would be more legitimate if he spent some

of that activism cleaning up his own mess and caring for his own victims.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x578689

[uppityperson]

6. There is no excuse to condone dog fighting, is there an excuse to make someone "The Face"?

Condone dog fighting, please. But is there an excuse to make someone "The Face" of something and keep him/her there, even if is not doing it, if has served sentence? Seriously, why? Does acknowledging someone served their sentence for a crime then mean that I am saying his crime meant nothing?

[Ken Burch]

7. Well, Bing Crosby DID become the posthumous face of child-beating

Read "Going My Own Way" by his son Gary.

As the old ad put it..."there's NO doubt about it".

[KansDem]

41. Thanks for the recommendation!

I've seen Gary Crosby in a "Rockford Files" episode:

79/03/03
NEVER SEND A BOY KING TO DO A MAN'S JOB
W: Juanita Bartlett <31>
D: William Wiard <20>
Rockford runs an elaborate con game to help his young gumshoe friend
Richie Brockelman. The mark: the man who brutally forced Richie's father
to sell his business for a fraction of its value. (2 hrs.)
(Rocky, Angel)

Harold Jack Coombs . . . . . . . . . . . . Robert Webber <4>
Odette Lepandu . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Trisha Noble
Harry Steel. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Pepper Martin <5>
Larry Litrell. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Gary Crosby <2>
Doyle. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . David Hooks
Mr. Brockelman . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Harold Gould (SGS)
Mrs. Brockelman. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Kim Hunter (SGS)
Richie Brockelman <2>. . . . . . . . . . . Dennis Dugan <2> (SA/A)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Salt Walther

Cowboy Mickey Martell. . . . . . . . . . . Stanley Brock <3>
Dr. Wetherford . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Jack Collins <3>
Robert Wendkos/Nesbitt . . . . . . . . . . Todd Martin <2>
Toulie . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Stephanie Hankinson <1>
Auctioneer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Bob Basso
Egyptian Consul. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Danny Ades
Maggie . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Michelle Hart
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Jennifer Holmes
1st Workman. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Jack Garner <19>
Museum Guard . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . John Wyche
2nd Workman B.J. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Robert Ward <4>
Receptionist . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Shirley

Rockford Files

Love this two-parter!

I'll look for his book...:hi:

[Lint Head]

8. When you're a famous athelete millionaire you go to jail for a while then all is good.

If you're not a millionaire tough shit.

[rfranklin]

19. I would gladly go to jail if...

I could negotiate a multi-million dollar contract afterwards....

[CakeGrrl]

9. Please provide examples of ANYONE, either the President or DUers,

condoning dogfighting.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

10. link to anyone condoning dog fighting please....

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. Are you lecturing DU about condoning dog fighting? Because I have not seen that.

Not once. Period.

Are you lecturing us?

[TexasObserver]

12. You seem to think someone here has condoned dog fighting.

NONE of the discussions being had have anything to do with condoning dog fighting.

THIS ongoing discussion is about how we treat criminals who have served their time.

THIS ongoing discussion is about how some carry a need for vengeance while others don't.

It's not about condoning dog fighting and never has been.

[malaise]

55. Ding ding we have a winner n/t

[hlthe2b]

59. No, Texas Observer, it is NOT

This ongoing discussion is how we treat criminals differently who have money, athletic talent, or celebrity. It is an examination of our values that allows us to look at the misdeeds of a famous celebrity so very differently than those similar misdeeds of the common man and to be more willing to "forgive" those who have more to offer to us in terms of entertainment or other perceived value.

This ongoing discussion is about true redemption and not DEMANDING that others forgive someone whose sincerity remains in question; this discussion is about the need for the individual to decide a timeframe for forgiveness if that is to be offered and for others to understand that those who have dealt with the horrific aftermath of dog fighting and cruelty may just need a bit more time before they arrive at that decision.

This ongoing discussion is about the need for others to respect the differences among us when it comes to a crime that encompasses the most sadistic of acts one can engage upon another creature of this earth and that that respect includes not accusing others of hate when what they are expressing is continued GRIEF.

No, this ongoing discussion is not about condoning dog fighting. It is about evaluating our own values towards life and compassion towards humans AND animals. It is about the need for fairness above all else.

But, NO, TexasObserver, despite the attempts by some to portray it as so, it is NOT about vengeance. Sadly, some can not see the difference.

[TexasObserver]

60. Yes, hlthe2b, it is SO

Vengeance. Retribution. That's all that's going on here.

[hlthe2b]

61. We can do this all night, but you are so very wrong..

To accuse those who have been particularly impacted by the stories of Vick's cruelty--given their own efforts with similar victims of dog fighting-- of being only out for "vengeance" and "caring only for animals" over people is really appalling. That is not only wrong, but frankly as cruel and insensitive a stance as I have seen from some DUers. It is incredibly offensive. Though I've always thought a lot of you, to see you doing so is incredibly sad to me.

[lpbk2713]

13. MV also flies a Confederate flag outside his house.

Just to piss off DUers.



:eyes:

[Hello_Kitty]

15. Who's condoning dog fighting? Knock off the hyperbole.

I think Pres. Obama made a mistake by discussing Vick in that phone call but he wasn't condoning dog fighting.

[chimpymustgo]

16. Have alerted. This should be locked. NO one has condoned dog fighting. Let this go!

[rfranklin]

20. He is being "rehabilitated" and rewarded because...

he can throw a freakin' football. No other reason.

[CakeGrrl]

32. And? Take it up with the Eagles for taking him on.

and don't forget any other sports organization who harbors and lavishes much money on sexual harassers, domestic abusers, drug abusers and steroid cheats, racists, etc.

[TexasObserver]

46. Have you read Animal Farm?

[cottonseed]

26. So, it's comforting to imagine Bing Crosby's appendages ripped from his body by his own dogs?

This is how people "who love dogs" deal with the ugliness of abused dogs?

[BzaDem]

27. Why do you act like ANYONE is condoning dog fighting? Obama certainly isn't. n/t

[apocalypsehow]

29. I have yet to see a post or reply on DU condoning dog fighting - not even remotely close. Link?

:shrug:

[H2O Man]

36. Right.

[KoKo]

54. NO...not Condoning...but "giving a break."

That's what I've seen.

[hlthe2b]

39. Making excuses for him may not technically equate to condoning

his actions, but when some here have called out DUers and accused them of "caring only for animals and not people" or being "haters" in order to defend Vick, that comes damned close.

[MrScorpio]

40. Really, Mike. Who's advocating dog fighting here?

Just name one person.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

44. if he wasn't caught he

would still be doing it

[frylock]

47. ^this^

[MrSlayer]

50. Bing Crosby should be banned from movies FOREVER!!!!111!!1

Yes, I said it. What's up?

[Raschel]

52. Good point. Plus he didn't pay his dues to society, never did any time.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

58. Are there folks here on DU who are condoning dog fighting? n/t

[TexasObserver]

62. No! Of course not!

[HEyHEY]

63. I thought he was the face of Child abuse

[JVS]

71. Aren't you forgetting someone?

[Blue-Jay]

65. Who has condoned dog-fighting here?

It seems like you're implying that someone has done that.

[JuniperLea]

67. Killing of any living being for sport is barbaric...

There is no excuse for dog fighting, chicken fighting, human fighting, spousal abuse, senior abuse, child abuse, rape, molestation, wars, gang wars... they are all on the same level AFAIC.

[Bluebear]

75. +++++++++++++++++

[TBF]

68. I don't think most mean to support dog fighting - they are simply trying to protect their president.

I'm appalled the lengths they will go to - no matter what he says or does - they defend him. That's all this response is about ...