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I'm curious as to what level of ideological support the Vietnam war had from older DU members.

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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:11 AM
Original message
I'm curious as to what level of ideological support the Vietnam war had from older DU members.
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 07:11 AM by howard112211
I'm specificly talking not about people who were actually drafted to fight in it, an event that as I understand was beyond anyones personal opinion on the matter, but about the general opinion that people had about the war, its goals, its justification and so on.

I was born decades after the war ended, so I really don't have that unique perspective that people had who actually lived in those times.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Zero.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. None!
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Somawas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. Less than zero. Active opposition.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
118. Same here
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ladywnch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
132. ditto. n/t
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
4. None.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. None whatsoever.
I started out marching in the streets against a Democratic president. I have no problem doing so again. Just a quick point regarding the draft - there were a large number of resisters, including conscientious objectors and people who went to Canada and Sweden, so it wasn't necessarily beyond one's personal opinion on it. In fact, it was the draft that helped create so much of the opposition.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. Great point, tomg. None of us who marched against that war were wondering if we should be
"supporting" a democratic president, or muting our criticism of his policies.

I also agree with your point about the draft. With the draft, you had to make life-decisions about it, not just stand on the sidelines.

My bet is that among people of that generation who are now on DU, there was probably nobody who supported that war.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
37. Exactly. It was simply about right and wrong.
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nomb Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
73. There was a political schism on the left.
Some important factions supported the war, but not the US involvement, and sought the defeat of the west.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
99. you said it for me. I had family in Viet Nam and I hated this war
with all my might. One of them died of bone cancer from Agent Orange. It was wrong. If God were President I would have been against it.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is one time you can assume a generational correlation...
that was associated with opposition to the war. The WWII generation was gung ho--baby boomers NOT--by large majorities.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Yep, that's the best description. It was the WWII gen. vs. the baby boomer's. We used to
call them the old duffers, lifers and then the flag people. The latter being one ones that sewed flag patches on their shoulder. I really knew very few people that supported the Vietnam war.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. Lucky you. Living in SC at the time, in a small town, most people I knew

did support it--or if they didn't they wouldn't say so.

I think it was the dumbass mentality, just support the war because the US is involved in it.



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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
94. Yeah, looking back I was very lucky. My father, a WWI vet, said if I wanted to go to
Canada it was OK with him. He was completely against the war.

The mentality back then for a lot of people IMO was support the war just because the US was doing it, and you were un-American if you didn't go right along with it all, because the Communists were coming to get us.


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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
80. Weren't a lot of unions pro-war?
I read somewhere that the schism over Vietnam divided the classical left into two factions, and that that schism was never repaired
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #80
92. Yep, I think they were. I was in school then, I remember well the smell of
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 04:29 PM by RKP5637
tear gas, helicopters flying overhead and the national guard too, but I don't think too many union guys experienced that. And certainly a lot of democrats weren't with us.


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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
82. We called them the 'Love it or Leave its'
Remember that bumper sticker?
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #82
91. Yep!!! n/t
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. That is indeed an interesting observation.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
66. Not according to poll data.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/7/youth-and-war

Images of war protesters on college campuses have given rise to a common perception that younger people tend to be pacifists. After all, is it not the young whose lives and health are most on the line in any military action? Yet, nearly four decades of survey data show a far more complex and often contradictory reality than does the popular hawk/dove dichotomy.

There is a generation gap over U.S. military interventions­but it is older Americans, not young people, who typically show the greatest wariness about using military force. This was evident during the war in Vietnam and remains the case today.

-snip-

During the Vietnam War, Gallup surveys showed that not only were older people less supportive of President Lyndon Johnson's Vietnam policies early on, but they also were more likely to say the United States made a mistake in sending troops to fight there. In August 1965, just 41% of those ages 50 and older approved of Johnson's handling of the Vietnam situation. Americans under age 30 were far more positive toward Johnson's performance on Vietnam (56% approval).

The generation gap in attitudes toward the Vietnam War did not erode over time. Gallup surveys conducted between 1965 and 1973 show that over time people of all ages increasingly expressed the view that U.S. involvement in Vietnam was a mistake, but the broadest criticism always came from older generations. In August of 1965, people ages 50 and older were already twice as likely as those under 30 (by a 29% to 15% margin) to say sending troops to Vietnam was a mistake. Nearly eight years later, as U.S. forces were about to be completely withdrawn, majorities in all age groups saw Vietnam as a mistake, but younger people remained far less likely to take this view (53%) than those age 50 and older (69%).




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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. I question that polling data...that does not adjust for gender
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 12:34 PM by hlthe2b
Gallup during that period was not unlike the Rasmussen of today. I also note there is no adjustment for gender in those polls. I don't doubt women of the WWII generation would have been anti-war (and would grossly outnumber men 25 or more years later within the cohort in an unadjusted sample). The WWII veterans were very much gung ho as a whole and were the ones manning the local draft boards, especially in the rural areas.

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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Re: adjustment for gender
I'm not familiar with Gallup's methodology during the 60's.

Do you think women's responses were not sought back then?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. No, the opposite. They were likely OVERSAMPLED...
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 12:55 PM by hlthe2b
As I stated, women in the WWII cohort would have grossly exceeded men 25+ years post WWII because of 1. loss of male demographic as a normal expected course of different life expectancies (women outlive men due to protective effects of estrogen on heart disease risk through menopause) and 2. loss of male demographic within the cohort because of war losses.

Unless they adjusted their polling sample to account for this, then women would be very likely to bias the sample. If they assumed the key issue was age cohort and that men and women of the group would think similarly, then they may not have tried to adjust the sample to more accurately include a representative sample of men. Since there is no discussion of gender adjustment, I assume this likely. AND, I have strong reason to believe that women of both generational cohorts would have been more likely than men to oppose the war, so failing to adjust would have lead to very biased results.

Further, my point about Gallup being the Rasmussen of the day is not just rhetoric. They have had a history of strong right wing leanings.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. Sorry if I misunderstood your point about the representation of women.
Re: Gallup political bias

I'm not saying the company is/was unbiased, but I just don't see how a poll showing higher opposition to the war in older people advances an agenda.

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. Re:
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 01:29 PM by hlthe2b
I don't think it a very far stretch to speculate how biased polling advanced a RW agenda then, any more than it does today. Remember all those highly PRO-Iraq war polls and Pro-Bush* polls of a few years back? Polling can influence as well as "capture" opinion. The RW has been masters at such use. There were Frank Luntz types well before the current rendition.

Old man Gallup and Nixon were tight...btw
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #77
111. I believe my reaction to your explaination is "What a crock".
So even if there are more women who can vote they are skewing polls so that the opinions are "equal"? Anytime you adjust the numbers you are negating the poll. This sends it into fantasy.
Which is what we have suspected since the Bush cousin was in on the poll watching.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #111
126. Your knowledge of statistical methods is clearly lacking..
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 09:05 PM by hlthe2b
I will simply leave it at that.
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #126
131. So you cannot explain it well enough so that it makes sense, there is somet/hing wrong with me?
Priceless.

Inaccurate statistical methods lead to incorrect conclusions ie propaganda.

Corrupt politics is everywhere in America including polls.

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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #77
120. WW2 veterans would have been pushing 50 around that time, they weren't old geezers falling over dead
FWIW
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #120
128. Differential survival effect begins somewhere in the 40s.
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 09:09 PM by hlthe2b
not to mention the additional effect of a gender-based differential loss of life (>292,000 direct US casualties) in a world war.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #69
97. Of course you do: it doesn't conform to your view of what people SHOULD have told Gallup at the time
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 04:46 PM by apocalypsehow
If the poll numbers posted above reflected the opposite - showing massive approval by older Americans of the war - I suspect your replies would be quite different, praising Gallup to the heavens and insisting that the poll was the most accurate ever conducted in the history of humanity.


Edit: clarity.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #97
127. What an obnoxious and totally unjustified accusation..
You don't know me, but you feel justified in calling me out like this. Welcome to ignore. That is so damned rude it simply doesn't merit further interaction. Nasty and uncalled for.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #127
139. It's totally "called for" since it's a spot-on observation on my part - are you denying for one
second that if that poll above reflected numbers more in line with your stated beliefs about this matter that you wouldn't be citing it all over the place, with cheers & accolades, whenever this matter happened to arise as an issue on any given thread?

Or that you would be investing much time in trying to dismiss this poll despite the fact that it did so were your position reversed?

Puhleeze: to ask the question is to answer it.

"Welcome to ignore"

I am very much saddened to hear that your encounter with my irrefutable facts on this thread would lead you to such a course of action. And I promise to spend precisely 0.00012 seconds deeply regretting it at the next available contemplative opportunity. :evilfrown:
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sad sally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Women were not drafted so I can't speak to that aspect,
but marching in anti-war rallys - especially toward the end - there were just as many women, not as many men - who were the age I am now (old) who stood firmly with all us hippies marching against the war. Many of us who were young then lost family and friends very soon after they arrived in Vietnam; we learned that those old people marching with us had also lost grandsons. Family members who made it home in one piece were never the same. There wasn't the censorship of news so much as there is now.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. I don't remember my parents talking about it...but they let me go on protest marches...
with the "peacenic" neighbors.

"Hell No, We Won't Go"...

It was over by the time I started middle-school.

I knew that it caused a lot of pain in my neighborhood,
because some families had kids there, and some had
kids that HAD been there. Aside from the marches,
I don't remember the adults talking or arguing about it.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. Less than zero.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. Absolutely none.
Zilch. Hating that war consumed us. We fought with family and friends over it. We marched against it. Today...we post.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
10. No support from me. I was in college and most college age people
strongly opposed the war. I was very active in the anti war movement in those days and also in the "dump Johnson" efforts.That war began with "US advisors on the ground" (sound familiar?) and escallated. It seemed to me that most of the rest of the country supported the war until the draft was expanded and many exemptions went away. The tide of public opinion began to change after that. The "dump Johnson" movement gained momentum in 1967 leading to the President's decision not to run for re-election. After that, it was a matter of time before we disentangled ourselves.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. Once I understood what was going on - not one iota
pretty much understood in 1966.
by 1970, I knew maybe one person still gung ho for it. I was dating his daughter :eyes:
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
12. Totally against it from the get-go. War only helps the ruling class.
Revolution helps the working class.
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
123. what about the american civil war ?
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. Most of us who were around then were either drafted, eligible
for the draft, or, if female, had friends/boyfriends/brothers who were, so we were not exactly objective about the whole thing -- even irrespective of the ideological arguments. However, among the general public there was quite a lot of support for the war, at least initially. It was sold as necessary to prevent the spread of Communism, the Big Scary Thing at the time. Public support gradually eroded (but did not disappear altogether) as time went on, as the war seemed to reach a stalemate and more and more soldiers were killed. But even by the time it was over, it remained controversial. There are a fair number of people who still think we should have gone in and nuked 'em, and that the war was lot because of them damn hippies.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. Yep, if anyone reading this isn't familiar with the phrase, "domino theory," google it. nt
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
88. That pretty much sums it up.
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Lindsay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
14. Actively against.
Protested when and where I could. Had a high school friend who was killed early on. Had another who went to Canada. Nobody I knew in my generation was indifferent; we were all against the war.
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razorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
16. Hell, I think we should STILL nuke Vietnam!
That's a joke, by the way.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
17. None from me. nt
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
20. I grew up in a very conservative household...
..in a very conservative community. My father (John Birch member) took me aside in 1965 (I was 16) and told me about the "domino theory" and the importance of stopping the Communists in Viet Nam before they got to our shores (sound familiar?).

But like many of that generation, I was more interested in girls and beer than in wars and such. At least until the draft board came breathing down my neck. Then I gave two minutes consideration to the whole thing and did the most cowardly thing possible - I enlisted in the Air Force.

No combat, that's for Officers in the AF, unlike the other branches of service.

No shaming my family by going to Canada.

I was still pretty much apolitical when I was sent to Southeast Asia. Not when I came home.

I've been a leftist/activist ever since.
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Fascinating.
Joining the AF. Probably what I would have done ;) That, or they wouldn't have wanted me anyway for medical reasons.
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. I was against it in 5th grade but kept quiet about it.
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 07:34 AM by CBGLuthier
I had a real live bible-thumping commie-fighting teacher. One of my classmates was the son of Col. Robinson Risner who was a POW for 7 years. He wore a bracelet with his dad's name on it. Lot's of people wore those POW bracelets but most had stranger's names. Col. Risner was one of the more famous POWs as he was for a time the highest ranking officer captured. He came home the next year (1973) and returned to active duty.

http://www.af.mil/information/heritage/person.asp?dec=&pid=123006495

To be fair, it was over before I was of an age to really debate it. And these sets of memories are about all I recall of that time.

Memory is a funny thing. I clearly remember supporting Humphrey in 68 but have absolutely no memory of RFK at all.
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CanonRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
23. 100% against it
thought then it was totally stupid, a complete waste of lives and money, and nothing has changed my opinion.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
24. I was actively against it- I watched friends and relatives who were older and male
get drafted and dissapear.

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GTurck Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
25. Many of us...
were very conflicted. Then, as now, our only sources were newspapers and television. We had relatives drafted and sent to Viet Nam and knew that they needed support but couldn't get straight reasons why they were there. Fear was selling itself:the domino theory that if Communism wasn't stopped other countries would fall. The US had been at war for so long that we had never really known what peace would be like. We've have never had real peace since 1945.
Many of us who were working class and struggling were put off by the Hippies/Yippies who seemed like privileged brats (a recurring theme in the news).
Our relatives were never spit on or called names but they did come back damaged and cynical.
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. That "privileged brat" thing...
Weren't there many working class people who did the "hitchhiking" and "living in communes" thing?
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GTurck Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
150. We knew none..
All the people we knew were working and did not have the time or money to take off to protest. We were the silent generation that was told we should follow the script of securing a job, getting married and having children; and we did. It was our younger brothers and sisters still in high school who made some of the protests and joined the college students.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
98. "We've have never had real peace since 1945 " Absolutely true! Someone
posted in a different thread all of the foreign involvements the US has been in over the years. The list was amazing.

Here's the list I just found. It's incredible IMO. Timeline of United States military operations since 1775. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations

"Since WWII"

1945–47 – US Marines garrisoned in mainland China to oversee the removal of Soviet and Japanese forces after World War II.<3>

1945–49 – Post WWII occupation of South Korea; North Korean insurgency in Republic of Korea<4>

1946 – Trieste (Italy). President Truman ordered the increase of US troops along the zonal occupation line and the reinforcement of air forces in northern Italy after Yugoslav forces shot down an unarmed US Army transport plane flying over Venezia Giulia.. Earlier US naval units had been sent to the scene. Later the Free Territory of Trieste, Zone A.

1947 - Greece. US Marines land in Athens and assist in the re-establishment of monarchy and the arrest of Greek Communists.

1948 – Palestine. A marine consular guard was sent to Jerusalem to protect the US Consul General.

1948 – Berlin. Berlin Airlift After the Soviet Union established a land blockade of the US, British, and French sectors of Berlin on June 24, 1948, the United States and its allies airlifted supplies to Berlin until after the blockade was lifted in May 1949.

1948–49 – China. Marines were dispatched to Nanking to protect the American Embassy when the city fell to Communist troops, and to Shanghai to aid in the protection and evacuation of Americans.
1950–1959

1950–53 – Korean War. The United States responded to North Korean invasion of South Korea by going to its assistance, pursuant to United Nations Security Council resolutions. US forces deployed in Korea exceeded 300,000 during the last year of the conflict. Over 36,600 US military were killed in action.

1950–55 – Formosa (Taiwan). In June 1950 at the beginning of the Korean War, President Truman ordered the US Seventh Fleet to prevent Chinese Communist attacks upon Formosa and Chinese Nationalist operations against mainland China.

1954–55 – China. Naval units evacuated US civilians and military personnel from the Tachen Islands.

1955–64 – Vietnam. First military advisors sent to Vietnam on 12 Feb 1955. By 1964, US troop levels had grown to 21,000. On 7 August 1964, US Congress approved Gulf of Tonkin resolution affirming "All necessary measures to repel any armed attack against the forces of the United States. . .to prevent further aggression. . . (and) assist any member or protocol state of the Southeast Asian Collective Defense Treaty (SEATO) requesting assistance. . ."

1956 – Egypt. A marine battalion evacuated US nationals and other persons from Alexandria during the Suez crisis.

1958 – Lebanon. Lebanon crisis of 1958 Marines were landed in Lebanon at the invitation of President Camille Chamoun to help protect against threatened insurrection supported from the outside. The President's action was supported by a Congressional resolution passed in 1957 that authorized such actions in that area of the world.

1959–60 – The Caribbean. Second Marine Ground Task Force was deployed to protect US nationals following the Cuban revolution.

1959–75 – Vietnam War. US military advisers had been in South Vietnam for a decade, and their numbers had been increased as the military position of the Saigon government became weaker. After citing what he termed were attacks on US destroyers in the Tonkin Gulf, President Johnson asked in August 1964 for a resolution expressing US determination to support freedom and protect peace in Southeast Asia. Congress responded with the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, expressing support for "all necessary measures" the President might take to repel armed attacks against US forces and prevent further aggression. Following this resolution, and following a Communist attack on a US installation in central Vietnam, the United States escalated its participation in the war to a peak of 543,000 military personnel by April 1969.
1960–1969

1962 – Thailand. The Third Marine Expeditionary Unit landed on May 17, 1962 to support that country during the threat of Communist pressure from outside; by July 30, the 5,000 marines had been withdrawn.

1962 – Cuba. Cuban Missile Crisis On October 22, President Kennedy instituted a "quarantine" on the shipment of offensive missiles to Cuba from the Soviet Union. He also warned Soviet Union that the launching of any missile from Cuba against nations in the Western Hemisphere would bring about US nuclear retaliation on the Soviet Union. A negotiated settlement was achieved in a few days.

1962–75 – Laos. From October 1962 until 1975, the United States played an important role in military support of anti-Communist forces in Laos.

1964 – Congo (Zaire). The United States sent four transport planes to provide airlift for Congolese troops during a rebellion and to transport Belgian paratroopers to rescue foreigners.

1965 – Invasion of Dominican Republic. Operation Power Pack. The United States intervened to protect lives and property during a Dominican revolt and sent 20,000 US troops as fears grew that the revolutionary forces were coming increasingly under Communist control.

1967 – Israel. The USS Liberty incident, whereupon a United States Navy Technical Research Ship was attacked June 8, 1967 by Israeli armed forces, killing 34 and wounding more than 170 U.S. crew members.

1967 – Congo (Zaire). The United States sent three military transport aircraft with crews to provide the Congo central government with logistical support during a revolt.

1968 – Laos & Cambodia. U.S. starts secret bombing campaign against targets along the Ho Chi Minh trail in the sovereign nations of Cambodia and Laos. The bombings last at least two years. (See Operation Commando Hunt)
1970–1979

1970 – Cambodian Campaign. US troops were ordered into Cambodia to clean out Communist sanctuaries from which Viet Cong and North Vietnamese attacked US and South Vietnamese forces in Vietnam. The object of this attack, which lasted from April 30 to June 30, was to ensure the continuing safe withdrawal of American forces from South Vietnam and to assist the program of Vietnamization.

1973 – Operation Nickel Grass, a strategic airlift operation conducted by the United States to deliver weapons and supplies to Israel during the Yom Kippur War.

1974 – Evacuation from Cyprus. United States naval forces evacuated US civilians during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus.

1975 – Evacuation from Vietnam. Operation Frequent Wind. On April 3, 1975, President Ford reported US naval vessels, helicopters, and Marines had been sent to assist in evacuation of refugees and US nationals from Vietnam.

1975 – Evacuation from Cambodia. Operation Eagle Pull. On April 12, 1975, President Ford reported that he had ordered US military forces to proceed with the planned evacuation of US citizens from Cambodia.

1975 – South Vietnam. On April 30, 1975, President Ford reported that a force of 70 evacuation helicopters and 865 Marines had evacuated about 1,400 US citizens and 5,500 third country nationals and South Vietnamese from landing zones in and around the US Embassy, Saigon and Tan Son Nhut Airport.

1975 – Cambodia. Mayagüez Incident. On May 15, 1975, President Ford reported he had ordered military forces to retake the SS Mayagüez, a merchant vessel which was seized from Cambodian naval patrol boats in international waters and forced to proceed to a nearby island.

1976 – Lebanon. On July 22 and 23, 1976, helicopters from five US naval vessels evacuated approximately 250 Americans and Europeans from Lebanon during fighting between Lebanese factions after an overland convoy evacuation had been blocked by hostilities.

1976 – Korea. Additional forces were sent to Korea after two American soldiers were killed by North Korean soldiers in the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea while cutting down a tree.

1978 – Zaire (Congo). From May 19 through June 1978, the United States utilized military transport aircraft to provide logistical support to Belgian and French rescue operations in Zaire.
1980–1989

1980 – Iran. Operation Eagle Claw. On April 26, 1980, President Carter reported the use of six U.S. transport planes and eight helicopters in an unsuccessful attempt to rescue the American hostages in Iran.

1981 – El Salvador. After a guerrilla offensive against the government of El Salvador, additional US military advisers were sent to El Salvador, bringing the total to approximately 55, to assist in training government forces in counterinsurgency.

1981 – Libya. First Gulf of Sidra Incident On August 19, 1981, US planes based on the carrier USS Nimitz shot down two Libyan jets over the Gulf of Sidra after one of the Libyan jets had fired a heat-seeking missile. The United States periodically held freedom of navigation exercises in the Gulf of Sidra, claimed by Libya as territorial waters but considered international waters by the United States.

1982 – Sinai. On March 19, 1982, President Reagan reported the deployment of military personnel and equipment to participate in the Multinational Force and Observers in the Sinai. Participation had been authorized by the Multinational Force and Observers Resolution, Public Law 97-132.

1982 – Lebanon. Multinational Force in Lebanon. On August 21, 1982, President Reagan reported the dispatch of 800 Marines to serve in the multinational force to assist in the withdrawal of members of the Palestine Liberation force from Beirut. The Marines left September 20, 1982.

1982–83 – Lebanon. On September 29, 1982, President Reagan reported the deployment of 1200 marines to serve in a temporary multinational force to facilitate the restoration of Lebanese government sovereignty. On September 29, 1983, Congress passed the Multinational Force in Lebanon Resolution (P.L. 98-119) authorizing the continued participation for eighteen months.

1983 – Egypt. After a Libyan plane bombed a city in Sudan on March 18, 1983, and Sudan and Egypt appealed for assistance, the United States dispatched an AWACS electronic surveillance plane to Egypt.

1983 – Grenada. Operation Urgent Fury. Citing the increased threat of Soviet and Cuban influence and noting the development of an international airport following a bloodless Grenada coup d'état and alignment with the Soviets and Cuba, the U.S. invades the sovereign island nation of Grenada.

1983–89 – Honduras. In July 1983 the United States undertook a series of exercises in Honduras that some believed might lead to conflict with Nicaragua. On March 25, 1986, unarmed US military helicopters and crewmen ferried Honduran troops to the Nicaraguan border to repel Nicaraguan troops.

1983 – Chad. On August 8, 1983, President Reagan reported the deployment of two AWACS electronic surveillance planes and eight F-15 fighter planes and ground logistical support forces to assist Chad against Libyan and rebel forces.

1984 – Persian Gulf. On June 5, 1984, Saudi Arabian jet fighter planes, aided by intelligence from a US AWACS electronic surveillance aircraft and fueled by a U.S. KC-10 tanker, shot down two Iranian fighter planes over an area of the Persian Gulf proclaimed as a protected zone for shipping.

1985 – Italy. On October 10, 1985, US Navy pilots intercepted an Egyptian airliner and forced it to land in Sicily. The airliner was carrying the hijackers of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro who had killed an American citizen during the hijacking.

1986 – Libya. Action in the Gulf of Sidra (1986) On March 26, 1986, President Reagan reported on March 24 and 25, US forces, while engaged in freedom of navigation exercises around the Gulf of Sidra, had been attacked by Libyan missiles and the United States had responded with missiles.

1986 – Libya. Operation El Dorado Canyon. On April 16, 1986, President Reagan reported that U.S. air and naval forces had conducted bombing strikes on terrorist facilities and military installations in the Libyan capitol of Tripoli, claiming that Libyan leader Col. Muammar al-Gaddafi was responsible for a bomb attack at a German disco that killed two U.S. soldiers.

1986 – Bolivia. U.S. Army personnel and aircraft assisted Bolivia in anti-drug operations.

1987 – Persian Gulf. USS Stark was struck on May 17 by two Exocet antiship missiles fired from an Iraqi F-1 Mirage during the Iran-Iraq War killing 37 US Navy sailors.

1987 – Persian Gulf. Operation Nimble Archer. Attacks on two Iranian oil platforms in the Persian Gulf by United States Navy forces on October 19. The attack was a response to Iran's October 16, 1987 attack on the MV Sea Isle City, a reflagged Kuwaiti oil tanker at anchor off Kuwait, with a Silkworm missile.

1987–88 – Persian Gulf. Operation Earnest Will - After the Iran-Iraq War (the Tanker War phase) resulted in several military incidents in the Persian Gulf, the United States increased US joint military forces operations in the Persian Gulf and adopted a policy of reflagging and escorting Kuwaiti oil tankers through the Persian Gulf to protect them from Iraqi and Iranian attacks. President Reagan reported that US ships had been fired upon or struck mines or taken other military action on September 21 (Iran Ajr), October 8, and October 19, 1987 and April 18 (Operation Praying Mantis), July 3, and July 14, 1988. The United States gradually reduced its forces after a cease-fire between Iran and Iraq on August 20, 1988. It was the largest naval convoy operation since World War II.<5>

1987–88 – Persian Gulf. Operation Prime Chance was a United States Special Operations Command operation intended to protect U.S. -flagged oil tankers from Iranian attack during the Iran-Iraq War. The operation took place roughly at the same time as Operation Earnest Will.

1988 – Persian Gulf. Operation Praying Mantis was the April 18, 1988 action waged by U.S. naval forces in retaliation for the Iranian mining of the Persian Gulf and the subsequent damage to an American warship.

1988 – Honduras. Operation Golden Pheasant was an emergency deployment of U.S. troops to Honduras in 1988, as a result of threatening actions by the forces of the (then socialist) Nicaraguans.

1988 – USS Vincennes shoot down of Iran Air Flight 655

1988 – Panama. In mid-March and April 1988, during a period of instability in Panama and as the United States increased pressure on Panamanian head of state General Manuel Noriega to resign, the United States sent 1,000 troops to Panama, to "further safeguard the canal, US lives, property and interests in the area." The forces supplemented 10,000 US military personnel already in the Panama Canal Zone.

1989 – Libya. Second Gulf of Sidra Incident On January 4, 1989, two US Navy F-14 aircraft based on the USS John F. Kennedy shot down two Libyan jet fighters over the Mediterranean Sea about 70 miles north of Libya. The US pilots said the Libyan planes had demonstrated hostile intentions.

1989 – Panama. On May 11, 1989, in response to General Noriega's disregard of the results of the Panamanian election, President Bush ordered a brigade-sized force of approximately 1,900 troops to augment the estimated 1,000 U.S. forces already in the area.

1989 – Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru. Andean Initiative in War on Drugs. On September 15, 1989, President Bush announced that military and law enforcement assistance would be sent to help the Andean nations of Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru combat illicit drug producers and traffickers. By mid-September there were 50–100 US military advisers in Colombia in connection with transport and training in the use of military equipment, plus seven Special Forces teams of 2–12 persons to train troops in the three countries.

1989 – Philippines. Operation Classic Resolve. On December 2, 1989, President Bush reported that on December 1, Air Force fighters from Clark Air Base in Luzon had assisted the Aquino government to repel a coup attempt. In addition, 100 marines were sent from U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay to protect the United States Embassy in Manila.

1989–90 – Panama. Operation Just Cause. On December 21, 1989, President Bush reported that he had ordered US military forces to Panama to protect the lives of American citizens and bring General Noriega to justice. By February 13, 1990, all the invasion forces had been withdrawn. Around 200 Panamanian civilians were reported killed. The Panamanian head of state, General Manuel Noriega, was captured and brought to the U.S.
1990–1999

1990 – Liberia. On August 6, 1990, President Bush reported that a reinforced rifle company had been sent to provide additional security to the US Embassy in Monrovia, and that helicopter teams had evacuated U.S. citizens from Liberia.

1990 – Saudi Arabia. On August 9, 1990, President Bush reported that he had ordered the forward deployment of substantial elements of the US armed forces into the Persian Gulf region to help defend Saudi Arabia after the August 2 invasion of Kuwait by Iraq. On November 16, 1990, he reported the continued buildup of the forces to ensure an adequate offensive military option. American hostages being held in Iran.

1991 – Persian Gulf War. Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm. On January 16, 1991, U.S. forces attacked Iraqi forces and military targets in Iraq and Kuwait in conjunction with a coalition of allies and under United Nations Security Council resolutions. Combat operations ended on February 28, 1991.

1991 – Iraq. On May 17, 1991, President Bush stated that the Iraqi repression of the Kurdish people had necessitated a limited introduction of U.S. forces into northern Iraq for emergency relief purposes.

1991 – Zaire. On September 25–27, 1991, after widespread looting and rioting broke out in Kinshasa, Air Force C-141s transported 100 Belgian troops and equipment into Kinshasa. American planes also carried 300 French troops into the Central African Republic and hauled evacuated American citizens.

1991–96 – Iraq. Operation Provide Comfort. Delivery of humanitarian relief and military protection for Kurds fleeing their homes in northern Iraq, by a small Allied ground force based in Turkey.

1992 – Sierra Leone. Operation Silver Anvil. Following the April 29 coup that overthrew President Joseph Saidu Momoh, a United States European Command (USEUCOM) Joint Special Operations Task Force evacuated 438 people (including 42 third-country nationals) on May 3 .Two Air Mobility Command (AMC) C-141s flew 136 people from Freetown, Sierra Leone, to the Rhein-Main Air Base in Germany and nine C-130 sorties carried another 302 people to Dakar, Senegal.

1992–96 – Bosnia and Herzegovina. Operation Provide Promise was a humanitarian relief operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina during the Yugoslav Wars, from July 2, 1992, to January 9, 1996, which made it the longest running humanitarian airlift in history.<6>

1992 – Kuwait. On August 3, 1992, the United States began a series of military exercises in Kuwait, following Iraqi refusal to recognize a new border drawn up by the United Nations and refusal to cooperate with UN inspection teams.

1992–2003 – Iraq. Iraqi No-Fly Zones The U.S. together with the United Kingdom declares and enforces "no fly zones" over the majority of sovereign Iraqi airspace, prohibiting Iraqi flights in zones in southern Iraq and northern Iraq, and conducting aerial reconnaissance and bombings. (See also Operation Northern Watch, Operation Southern Watch)

1992–95 – Somalia. Operation Restore Hope. Somali Civil War On December 10, 1992, President Bush reported that he had deployed US armed forces to Somalia in response to a humanitarian crisis and a UN Security Council Resolution. The operation came to an end on May 4, 1993. US forces continued to participate in the successor United Nations Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM II). (See also Battle of Mogadishu)

1993 – Macedonia. On July 9, 1993, President Clinton reported the deployment of 350 US soldiers to the Republic of Macedonia to participate in the UN Protection Force to help maintain stability in the area of former Yugoslavia.

1994–95 – Haiti. Operation Uphold Democracy. U.S. ships had begun embargo against Haiti. Up to 20,000 US military troops were later deployed to Haiti.

1994 – Macedonia. On April 19, 1994, President Clinton reported that the US contingent in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia had been increased by a reinforced company of 200 personnel.

1995 – Bosnia. Operation Deliberate Force. NATO bombing of Bosnian Serbs.

1996 – Liberia. Operation Assured Response. On April 11, 1996, President Clinton reported that on April 9, 1996 due to the "deterioration of the security situation and the resulting threat to American citizens" in Liberia he had ordered U.S. military forces to evacuate from that country "private U.S. citizens and certain third-country nationals who had taken refuge in the U.S. Embassy compound...."

1996 – Central African Republic. Operation Quick Response. On May 23, 1996, President Clinton reported the deployment of US military personnel to Bangui, Central African Republic, to conduct the evacuation from that country of "private U.S. citizens and certain U.S. government employees," and to provide "enhanced security for the American Embassy in Bangui." United States Marine Corps elements of Joint Task Force Assured Response , responding in nearby Liberia, provided security to the embassy and evacuated 448 people, including between 190 and 208 Americans. The last Marines left Bangui on June 22.

1997 – Albania. Operation Silver Wake. On March 13, 1997, U.S. military forces were used to evacuate certain U.S. government employees and private U.S. citizens from Tirana, Albania.

1997 – Congo and Gabon. On March 27, 1997, President Clinton reported on March 25, 1997, a standby evacuation force of U.S. military personnel had been deployed to Congo and Gabon to provide enhanced security and to be available for any necessary evacuation operation.

1997 – Sierra Leone. On May 29 and May 30, 1997, U.S. military personnel were deployed to Freetown, Sierra Leone, to prepare for and undertake the evacuation of certain U.S. government employees and private U.S. citizens.

1997 – Cambodia. On July 11, 1997, In an effort to ensure the security of American citizens in Cambodia during a period of domestic conflict there, a Task Force of about 550 U.S. military personnel were deployed at Utapao Air Base in Thailand for possible evacuations.

1998 – Iraq. Operation Desert Fox. U.S. and British forces conduct a major four-day bombing campaign from December 16–19, 1998 on Iraqi targets.

1998 – Guinea-Bissau. Operation Shepherd Venture. On June 10, 1998, in response to an army mutiny in Guinea-Bissau endangering the US Embassy, President Clinton deployed a standby evacuation force of US military personnel to Dakar, Senegal, to evacuate from the city of Bissau.

1998–99 – Kenya and Tanzania. US military personnel were deployed to Nairobi, Kenya, to coordinate the medical and disaster assistance related to the bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

1998 – Afghanistan and Sudan. Operation Infinite Reach. On August 20, air strikes were used against two suspected terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and a suspected chemical factory in Sudan.

1998 – Liberia. On September 27, 1998 America deployed a stand-by response and evacuation force of 30 US military personnel to increase the security force at the U.S. Embassy in Monrovia. <1>

1999–2001 - East Timor. Limited number of U.S. military forces deployed with the United Nations-mandated International Force for East Timor restore peace to East Timor.

1999 – Serbia. Operation Allied Force. NATO's bombing of Serbia in the Kosovo Conflict.
2000–2009

* 2000 – Sierra Leone. On May 12, 2000 a US Navy patrol craft deployed to Sierra Leone to support evacuation operations from that country if needed.

* 2000 – Yemen. On October 12, 2000, after the USS Cole attack in the port of Aden, Yemen, military personnel were deployed to Aden.

* 2000 – East Timor. On February 25, 2000, a small number of U.S. military personnel were deployed to support of the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET).

* 2001 – On April 1, 2001, a mid-air collision between a United States Navy EP-3E ARIES II signals surveillance aircraft and a People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) J-8II interceptor fighter jet resulted in an international dispute between the United States and the People's Republic of China called the Hainan Island incident.

* 2001 – War in Afghanistan. The War on Terrorism begins with Operation Enduring Freedom. On October 7, 2001, US Armed Forces invade Afghanistan in response to the 9/11 attacks and "begin combat action in Afghanistan against Al Qaeda terrorists and their Taliban supporters."

* 2002 – Yemen. On November 3, 2002, an American MQ-1 Predator fired a Hellfire missile at a car in Yemen killing Qaed Senyan al-Harthi, an al-Qaeda leader thought to be responsible for the USS Cole bombing.

* 2002 – Philippines. OEF-Philippines. January 2002 U.S. "combat-equipped and combat support forces" have been deployed to the Philippines to train with, assist and advise the Philippines' Armed Forces in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities."

* 2002 – Côte d'Ivoire. On September 25, 2002, in response to a rebellion in Côte d'Ivoire, US military personnel went into Côte d'Ivoire to assist in the evacuation of American citizens from Bouake.<7>



* 2003-2010 – War in Iraq. Operation Iraqi Freedom. March 20, 2003. The United States leads a coalition that includes Britain, Australia and Spain to invade Iraq with the stated goal being "to disarm Iraq in pursuit of peace, stability, and security both in the Gulf region and in the United States."

* 2003 – Liberia. Second Liberian Civil War. On June 9, 2003, President Bush reported that on June 8 he had sent about 35 US Marines into Monrovia, Liberia, to help secure the US Embassy in Nouakchott, Mauritania, and to aid in any necessary evacuation from either Liberia or Mauritania.

* 2003 – Georgia and Djibouti. "US combat equipped and support forces" had been deployed to Georgia and Djibouti to help in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities."<8>

* 2004 – Haiti. 2004 Haïti rebellion occurs. The US sent first sent 55 combat equipped military personnel to augment the US Embassy security forces there and to protect American citizens and property in light. Later 200 additional US combat-equipped, military personnel were sent to prepare the way for a UN Multinational Interim Force, MINUSTAH.

* 2004 – War on Terrorism: US anti-terror related activities were underway in Georgia, Djibouti, Kenya, Ethiopia, Yemen, and Eritrea.<9>

* 2004–present: Drone attacks in Pakistan

* 2005–06 – Pakistan. President Bush deploys troops from US Army Air Cav Brigades to provide Humanitarian relief to far remote villages in the Kashmir mountain ranges of Pakistan stricken by a massive earthquake.

* 2006 – Lebanon. US Marine Detachment, the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit, begins evacuation of US citizens willing to leave the country in the face of a likely ground invasion by Israel and continued fighting between Hezbollah and the Israeli military.<10><11>

* 2007 – Somalia. Battle of Ras Kamboni. On January 8, 2007, while the conflict between the Islamic Courts Union and the Transitional Federal Government continues, an AC-130 gunship conducts an aerial strike on a suspected Al-Qaeda operative, along with other Islamist fighters, on Badmadow Island near Ras Kamboni in southern Somalia.

* 2008 – South Ossetia, Georgia. Helped Georgia humanitarian aid<12>, helped to transport Georgian forces from Iraq during the conflict. In the past, the US has provided training and weapons to Georgia.

2010–Present

* 2010 - War in Iraq. Operation New Dawn. On February 17, 2010, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates announced that as of September 1, 2010, the name "Operation Iraqi Freedom" would be replaced by "Operation New Dawn". This coincides with the reduction of American troops to 50,000.
* 2011 - Libya. Operation Odyssey Dawn. Coalition forces enforcing U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973 with bombings of Libyan forces.
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N_E_1 for Tennis Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
27. Not much support ... if any
I protested my way though high school, many, many marches.

Burned my draft card.
Got drafted, anyway, very low number.
I will guess because of previous behavior, was not accepted for exemptions.

Served 4 years in the Army as a conscientious objector.

Believe it or not, I will never regret my time served.
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Roy Rolling Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
28. I marched against it
Totally against it....totally against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya.

Next question LOL
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
29. No support from me.

I wasn't draftable but I was totally against the draft.



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philly_bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
31. Heartbreaking disappointment for my WWII hero father ...
to have a son who dodged the draft and wouldn't go to war.

In Europe, Dad had seen the aftermath of the Katyn massacre of Polish officers by the Soviets, so he was very anticommunist.

Toward the end of his life, he came to see my point and we were reconciled.

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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. That thing about the generational divide between
WWII folks and the following generation is fascinating for me. From my understanding some WWII veterans blamed Vietnam veterans for losing the war.
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northoftheborder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
33. Neutral at first, totally opposed from middle to end.
As a busy young parent, married to a military man, I didn't have strong feelings about the war in the beginning. Statements like "we have to keep our commitments as a country" were slightly influential. However, I soon saw, along with everyone else, what a horrid quagmire it all was - such a waste and wrong. I had to keep my opinions to myself, however, as those around me were very hawkish.
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
34. Absolutely none. I was only a kid...
but it was a frequent topic of discussion at home. My parents were 100% against it. They even let me skip school to protest after the kids were killed at Kent State. I was in 9th grade at the time. I took it upon myself to read and learn about the war and couldn't believe we'd gone into Vietnam in the first place. Before that the most striking was Kennedy's assassination when I had just turned 8. We lived in DC then and Dad was part of the government -- I'll never forget the aura at home and elsewhere. I guess the Vietnam war coming after JFK's assassination was one of the earlier things that started me on the road to the cynic I am today. :P


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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
35. You are to be commended for realizing that you wouldn't have the same perspective because you didn't

actually live in those times.

"I was born decades after the war ended, so I really don't have that unique perspective that people had who actually lived in those times."

Many people, of whatever generation, whatever century, look back and don't seem to get it that many or most people in a previous time would have a very different perspective on issues than someone of the present time, issues including, but not limited to, civil rights, women's rights, etc.



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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
38. I was young and stupid and initially favored the war. So much so, that I joined the Navy.
It has been a steady, inexorable march to the left for me since that day I first arrived at Great Lakes Naval Training Center.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. None the less, thank you for your service.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
39. Resistance activities
protester, underground railroad supporter...soldiers headed for Canada, anti-Nixon.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
41. I never supported it. Didn't believe the 'justifications' for it. There were no goals when dozens
would die to take a hill and be ordered to abandon it the next. I marched in many protests against our involvement there. Almost 80% of the guys in my senior class ended up serving there.
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chelsea0011 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
42. Not enough space to talk about this but
I got a draft number, although many less were being drafted at that time. My number, a high one, only had a few draftees. In my circle of friends, and we were just out of high school, we were not actively protesting the war. But I can't think of any of them who had any support for the war. We talked about what we would do if we got low numbers and might get drafted. Some with low numbers joined to get the choice of assignments and avoid Vietnam. I honestly to this day have no idea what I would have done if my draft notice came. At that point all the loopholes were gone. Vietnam was a nightmare of epic proportions. But I will tell you, there was a lot of support for the war early on.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
43. None.
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 08:55 AM by TheCowsCameHome
It was a debacle from the word "go".

I registered for the draft, but had a high number and was never called.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
44. While I wasn't drafted, I had many friends that were.
Every person I knew was against the Vietnam War. I remember our lunch breaks during high school. We all listened to the new draft numbers being called on the radio...holding our breath in hope of our friends not being called up. Talk about TENSE...it was SCARY! Imagine, YOUR number is soon to be called....and just waiting for the next day of numbers. It was a horrible feeling. I know one guy who came home so screwed up he couldn't even watch Fourth of July fireworks because they sounded like gunfire to him. He totally freaked out. He would curl up in fetal position and hide. So damn sad.

It was a BAD time in history. :( The war was fought on LIES (Gulf of Tonkin/fighting communism). That is never going to end well.

How the Draft worked:

A lottery drawing - the first since 1942 - was held on December 1, 1969, at Selective Service National Headquarters in Washington, D.C. This event determined the order of call for induction during calendar year 1970, that is, for registrants born between January 1, 1944 and December 31, 1950. Reinstitution of the lottery was a change from the oldest first method, which had been the determining method for deciding order of call.

366 blue plastic capsules containing birth dates were placed in a large glass jar and drawn by hand to assign order-of-call numbers to all men within the 18-26 age range specified in Selective Service law.

With radio, film and TV coverage, the capsules were drawn from the jar, opened, and the dates inside posted in order. The first capsule - drawn by Congressman Alexander Pirine (R-NY) of the House Armed Services Committee - contained the date September 14, so all men born on September 14 in any year between 1944 and 1950 were assigned lottery number 1. The drawing continued until all days of the year had been matched to lottery numbers.

In 1973, the draft ended and the U.S. converted to an All-Volunteer military. <snip>

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/deploymentsconflicts/l/bldrafthistory.htm
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
45. Absolutely no opinion on the war.
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 09:19 AM by RebelOne
I had too many other things going on in my life at that time, such as going through a divorce. Though I did wear one of those MIA bracelet. It had on it the name of a soldier missing in action.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
46. I was very young (grade school) and from the working class
I don't remember any adults in my immediate family supporting the war. In fact, I dimly recall in the late '60s one of the men we knew saying if he went to Vietnam he'd come back in a body bag.

In the early '70s I remember a teacher (or a guest speaker to our class) telling us about the bracelet she was wearing in support of POWs.

In the mid-'70s, a friend of our family had been in the Marines (I saw his Marine photo in his parents' house)...I don't know if he went to Vietnam, but I do know he became something of a hippy when I knew him...not so much into all the peace and love stuff, but he grew his hair very long, was hedonistic, and I don't remember him doing much but laying around his parents' place a lot.

Honestly, I wasn't even clear that there was a war until I was 9 or so. My fourth grade teacher served in combat in Vietnam. He showed us slides of him in combat gear in the jungle and told us about jungle rot. I remember he got into an argument (or heated discussion) with one of my classmates who said his father insisted we won Vietnam (this would've been in 1974). I remember Mr. Eustace (the teacher) saying something like, "I was there. We lost the war."

In the late '70s, my mom met the man who's now my stepfather. He was in the Navy during Vietnam, was from a working-class background, and said he had actually wanted to go to Vietnam. However, he was highly trained for working on nuclear subs, so his request was declined.

Until I met him, I had assumed everyone was against the war, but I guess it was more complex than that.
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
47. I was apolitical and apathetic back then.
I was in an air national guard squadron, flying obsolete aircraft during my 'war years', 1963-1971.

I don't remember being personally much either pro or con about the war.
It just was.

At one time I did think it would be 'fun' and a terrific adventure to go to Viet Nam and be a 'real' fighter pilot. Now I am extremely grateful that such a transfer was not possible.

I've come a long way in my thinking about armed conflict since my fighter pilot years.

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Zanzoobar Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
48. One question arising from this is...
How many who wanted us out of Viet Nam, who now support the actions in Libya, wanted us to turn right around and go after Pol Pot?

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laruemtt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
49. strongly opposed!
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
50. It was complicated
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 09:38 AM by kickysnana
I graduated High School at the end of the 60's and women were not drafted but boy friends, brothers, cousins and older brothers of class mates were. Many others got deferrals by going to college or going in the reserves. The reserves were that until Reagan. Just a handful of my cousins managed to serve in that War and none went to Canada. A friend lost her fiance, my ex-husbands best friend, a medic on a rescue helicopter came back altered, broke off his engagement to his high school sweetheart and slept with a gun under his pillow.
Another second cousin same job did the exact same thing. Never married.

Dad called himself a Goldwater Republican and he worked in Military Systems for a large contractor so he was 100% for the war and 100% against the resistors and protesters. Mom was a Democrat but felt that the government would do what was best and considered anything negative as something she did not want to hear. She thought the resistors were wrong but she was a teen during WWII.

I opposed the war. I loved my parents. After one quarter at the U of MN where every class was a debate about Vietnam I left and my bubble headed answer was to join the WACS and support the troops while not supporting the war. There was a race riot while I was in basic training and we got a get out of the Army with an honorable discharge offer and I took it.(Another story, another time.) Because of my weeks in the Army I was dead set against the War, the Officers and the Military Industrial Component of the Government.

My maternal grandfather was not vocal about his feelings about the war. He was too young for WW1, too old for WWII and worked in defense during the war. By then he had lung damage due to asbestos exposure and was trying to live long enough to qualify for a pension which he just barely did (it was approved two days before he died) but it gave Grandma something to live on for 20 years. Grandma was totally against killing anything even in War but her "Gracie Allen" personality did not have anybody trying to change her. My other grandparents died in their late 50's.

It caused a rift between the generations that had many ripples. It set brother against brother and led to the new Christians who could do what ever they wanted because Jesus loved them and they said Jesus three times a day.

My Dad worked until he was 72 and they let him as younger folks because those running companies were not to be trusted as much as his generation was. After they finally gave up the ghost they started actively laying off the people, boomers, they might have to pay pensions.

WWII brought the country together, Vietnam tore it apart.
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #50
65. I find it interesting that the WWII generation would overwhelmingly support it.
Kind of sheds a negative light on their motives during WWII as well. Like they supported that one simply because they where told to, not because they actively believed it :shrug:
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Please see my post 66 above.
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #67
76. That is indeed fascinating. Certainly contradicts what commonly is said about those days.
Maybe many older people are more aware of all the negative things that war brings forth.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. I'm sure there were plenty of WWII and Korean war vets around who...
had had their fill of seeing people die.

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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
51. 1968-1969.
1st Air Cav.


Please don't thank me for my service, that's a republican meme.


I protested the war before and after I served.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
52. When I was in grade school/high school my thought was bomb the hell out of them
with our garbage. Junk cars and appliances.

By the time I hit college I was fed up with the war.
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Terry in Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
53. "Antiwar" defined us.
I marched against it, organized against it and, let's just say, some other stuff.

I filed for Conscientious Objector status and got it.

Vietnam was America's Vietnam. It marked the beginning of the end of America's moral leadership in the world. It was the coming out of America as a cold imperial power -- no more "good guys."

The war -- and Vietnam was "The War" -- divided us like the Civil War did. If things are unraveling now, Vietnam was the start of it.

Thanks for asking -- I'm glad you took some care to understand this important piece of history.


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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
54. I'm UK
Was generally regarded as paranoia with regard to Communism.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
55. That would be NONE!
K and R
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
56. 100% opposed
nt
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
57. That was the subject of a deep rift between my stepfather and his oldest son
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 11:18 AM by slackmaster
Dad supported it, my stepbrother was vehemently opposed. Many a holiday gathering was tainted by their disagreement. The experience made me resolve to never allow any kind of political discussion get in the way of a family relationship, or a friendship.
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. I hear ye. I had to stop talking politics with my dad.
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donco Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
58. I had no interest in politics
when I joined the Marine Corps in 1966, was unemployed awaiting the draft and….well, the rest I will leave to your imagination, Multiply that by two.

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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
59. I was a child during the war, a very young teen when it ended. My
parents were against the war, as were almost all other adults we knew. Fear of the draft affected all the parents of young men. Two boys I knew personally were killed - one a neighbor, one a friend's brother. My older cousin was drafted and went to basic training but was never sent to VN.

Growing up during that war made an everlasting impression on me. In those days, there was real news and my family watched Cronkite every night. We saw body bags, we heard the death toll. My father would shake his head and mumble, my mother's eyes would well up with tears. I remember seeing that iconic picture of the naked Vietnamese children running down the street screaming and they were my age. The war was frightening and incomprehensible to me.

And of course, that kind of reporting never happened again and now we have wars that are sanitized for public consumption and full of propaganda.

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felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
60. In 5th and 6th grade, two brothers drafted
and I held my breath the whole time they were gone, I was already against war by then. They returned safe thankfully.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
61. I was against it -- But I did have to occasionally wonder if ...
there might be some truth to the "domino theory" that was used to justify it.

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
62. Most kids my age would have supported the protesters.
We just didn't understand why we were still there. We kept seeing our brothers and neighbors waiting for their lottery numbers for the draft without understanding why there was no end to the war.

And we would find out later that the harder the kids were protesting, the more adamant the old farts at the top would resist because they didn't want to be seen as weak. Imagine that. Over 50,000 young men died because old men didn't want to admit they were wrong.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
64. Absolutely none.
The men in my family all served and when it came time for me, it was NEVER a question as to whether I would go or not.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
68. 100% totally against
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Paper Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
70. Strongly opposed, protested a few times.
Just another illegal war brought to us by our government. Over 50,000 men and women died for no just reason, in my opinion.

I was born during WWII,lived through Korea, Vietnam, and everything since.

My strong feeling is that we need to take care of our home front and not stick out noses into the affairs of the rest of the world.

Certainly not everyone will agree with me but I feel we have obligations here that should come before anything else. Sending our men and women off to war is an abomination.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
74. I told the Marine Crotch to shove it when they asked to extend my enlistment to fight in it.
I got 30 days of mess-duty for my youthful ardor in expressing my views about the war, LBJ, and the marine corps.

In an earlier phase, while in Japan, we were alerted and prepared to go to Laos. I thought that was a pretty dumbass idea too.
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kiranon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
75. Against it . Tear gassed a few times at Berkeley while protesting it.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
79. It was a generational issue
Our parents generally supported the war while most of our generation did not.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
83. I was smuggling draft dodgers into Canada
Kind of tells you where I stood.

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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
84. Against
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
85. Vietnam was pretty much every male baby-boomer's Sword of Damocles
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 01:24 PM by HereSince1628
I had a low draft number, crumby high school grades, and ended volunteering for 4 years of service so that I could avoid being drafted into a "line" unit.

I served with the Army's intelligence program that fed information to the NSA. Everyone I served with was a volunteer, and everyone of us thought that Vietnam was a travesty and a waste.





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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
87. My mother's generation didn't question the war at first
and they were evenly split between liberals and conservatives. Eventually, the liberals all protested the war but that wasn't until shortly before Tricky Dick's second inaugural.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
89. 1966 was a pivotal year for me. I was 14 year old and .........
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 01:31 PM by socialist_n_TN
a southern boy. Before '66 I didn't think much about the war. The big thing politically that I was around was the civil rights struggle. Most of my older relatives were ANTI civil rights, although not Klan/Bircher rabid. Most of them thought that the Negroes were "pushing too hard". So I sort of did too. Once again not rabidly so, but just kind of following the family trend, so to speak.

For some reason, in '66 my attitudes totally changed and I became a true leftist. I don't even think there was a single spark that did it, it was just an accumulation of SO much unfair bullshit that I had seen and lived through up to that time, that I was ready to work for a wholesale societal change. Not that I was sophisticated enough to put it into those words, but that's what it was. I became an avid supporter of the civil rights struggle and an avid anti war supporter. I started paying attention to politics and reading political stuff, started getting into Marxism a little bit.

As those years rolled along, I started music on a serious basis, started college and started smoking pot and doing acid. Studied more, became a Trotskyist, but I was ALWAYS anti war. I marched against it and railed against it every chance I had. I knew the tide was turning when my Mom started agreeing with me about it around '68 or '69. So that's my story.

BTW, the Vietnam War is the reason that I call bullshit on the whole "liberal" media meme. The Vietnam War raged for over 5 years with TOTAL SUPPORT FROM THE MSM. I used to cuss the TV news every night for 2 solid years before they started to question it at all. By supporting THAT war, the MSM proved to me that they were SOLIDLY on the side of the capitalistic, imperialistic exploiters.


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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
90. I'm glad you asked
I think that part of the reason our wars are accepted is our younger generations didn't know the horrors of that war, both home and abroad. I had NO support for it and almost wound up moving to Canada because of it. My lottery number was 44 so I was as good as on the boat. Fortunately, I got busted for pot and was rejected by the army. There was no way I was going.

I still remember the early 70s when guys from my small VA town started returning from Nam. Really strange times. To this day, none that are still alive are even close to being normal, even by my standards of normal. War has a nasty habit of dehumanizing people.

The most disgusting part of that era were the people that actually supported the war. To them, anyone that didn't support it was a commie pinko queer, PERIOD. Names never hurt anyone but bullets do.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
93. None - I hated that war and LBJ.
I don't support dems who are LBJ like.
That includes Obama.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #93
100. LBJ brought us the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act, appointed Thurgood Marshall to
the Supreme Court, created Medicare, made the last serious effort in this country to eliminate poverty through Great Society programs, among many, many, many other good and noble things.

I would be proud to support any Democrat who was "LBJ like."

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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #100
104. And while doing that - how many young Americans did he send
To their early graves?

And in pretty much a racist war.
African Americans and poor people out represented the dead in that awful conflict.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. Irrelevant and non-responsive: the conflict in Vietnam does not negate the great accomplishments of
the Johnson administration. It puts a definite blemish on an otherwise remarkable record now, in 2011, but hindsight is always crystal-clear. Given the fact that LBJ was a man of the Cold War era and was conducting foreign policy just as his predecessors and successors had, his actions were right in line with the "containment" theories of the time.

And the notion that the president who achieved the greatest strides ever in Civil Rights legislation in this country somehow had racist motives in waging the Vietnam war is simply as beyond the pale as it is laughable.

Get back to me when you have a cogent argument to make. Thanks.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. Way to gloss over a racist war. You're welcome. Nt
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. Still waiting on that cogent argument. n/t.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #108
113. Still waiting on something coherent from you. Nt
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #113
135. You've had plenty of factual material presented to you in a quite coherent matter. You're just not
interested in dealing with facts.

Still waiting on that cogent argument, by the way.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
95. I still think of Abbie Hoffman as a moderate.
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 04:34 PM by Zorra
I used to, er, hang out with Dave Dellinger's son.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
96. Now that the "correct," i.e., POPULAR stance in 2011 is to be full-throated against the Vietnam war,
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 04:35 PM by apocalypsehow
I reckon - without having looked at replies to your OP yet - that there will be a uniform, lockstep "I wuz agin it!!!" consensus.

Hell, even the right-wingers on the Pat Buchanan/Ron Paul side of the spectrum spend a good deal of time these days denouncing American participation in the Vietnam war.

However, even as late as 1968 public opinion showed vast majorities in favor of either continuing the military effort in Southeast Asia or outright "ending it by winning it" - a code phrase meaning a full scale invasion of the North in a declared war, and all that would have entailed (a Congressional Declaration of War; full-scale mobilization of the Reserves and National Guard; acceleration of the draft; potential direct conflict with China). Among those vast majorities were millions upon millions of mainstream American liberals/progressives, who probably felt more ambivalent than their conservative counterparts about the matter but still supported a Democratic president in his effort to "nation-build." At worst, they saw it as an unfortunate adjunct of the Great Society, a necessary evil to maintain American credibility among our allies.

It wasn't until Nixon announced his "Vietnamization" plan in 1969 that support for the war started to take a serious turn southward, and even then it was for reasons most do not like to hear in 2011:

1. Liberals turned against it because it was now a "Republican" war, and Nixon was a bastard in any event;

2. Conservatives turned against it because they wanted a full-scale escalation into global war over the matter if that was what was necessary to "win it," and had little use for all the "Vietnamization" shit - if we weren't going to go full-tilt to take names and kick commie ass, we ought to just chuck the whole thing was their attitude;

3. Moderates simply threw up their hands and just wished the whole thing would go away - which it eventually did, after tens of thousands of more American deaths and who knows how many Vietnamese.

The oddest thing about the entire Vietnam war was noted by an NVA veteran of that war years ago: in the country itself, the actual fighting ended long ago, while in America the war of words about it has never stopped.



Edit: typo.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #96
102. No. A lot of us here did hate that war. We were the genuine democratic underground of that time.
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 05:03 PM by Zorra
Some of us were more active than others; regardless, in solidarity, we all hated that F&*^%#$!G war.

Yeah, sure there were a lot of middle of the road pojama people they polled back then that favored the war. Just like there is today.

Many of the same people that had their head up their asses back then still have have it up their ass now. Some may have figured it out by now. They were total impediments to truth, peace, and societal evolution at the time. Just as the same ilk are today.

One of the reasons we are here at DU is that there is an ideological/spiritual/intellectual connection and camaraderie among old anti-war liberals with each other, as well as with the younger folks at DU that really get it.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #102
107. Sure there were. It's just mighty convenient that the *most popular* position circa 2011 happens to
be the one so many now insist they held way back when. I don't doubt that many DU'ers old enough to have been politically aware back then were, indeed, against the war.

But the uniformity of the responses is simply not plausible: I don't buy it.



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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #107
116. I think that you're being too hard on DU boomers...........
This is a left leaning web site and it wouldn't surprise me at ALL to have almost 100% anti Vietnam War people amongst the boomers on here. And honestly so, not hindsightedly so. Hell most of us BECAME left wing over that fucking war.

But one thing you're right about. As a GENERAL rule, it was a popular war at least until circa '68. BUT THERE WAS A SIGNIFICIENT MINORITY AGAINST THE WAR. And it's not hard to believe that the folks who post on DU were a part of that minority.

As I said in my post on the subject, a LARGE part of the support FOR the Vietnam War was because of the MSM propaganda FOR the war. THAT support for the Vietnam War is one of the reasons that the "liberal" MSM was a myth, is a myth, and has always been a myth.
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #107
129. So
basically you're calling us liars. What a jerk.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #129
137. Now there's a sure-fire way to convince me I'm wrong: put words in my mouth and follow that up with
a personal attack. Very persuasive....

:eyes:
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #137
138. I don't have to convince you
that you are wrong because I know you are wrong. I think you were pretty insulting.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #138
140. Actually, I am quite correct, and there is nothing insulting in the least in the manner in which I
stated my case.

Putting words into another poster's mouth and calling them a "jerk," well, now, that's a tad bit "insulting."

But worry not: it makes me smile. Whenever I see such posting behavior in lieu of an actual argument spewed my way in any given debate, I know the debate is over, and I have prevailed. Thanks for confirming that basic truth, again, my friend. :thumbsup: :toast:
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #140
142. But you haven't answered my reply #107.........
nm
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #142
143. Uhhhh....wut? I looked, and Reply #107 was one authored by "apocalypsehow"...
:shrug:
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #143
152. Mea culpa. It was my RESPONSE to reply #107.......
Starting with, "I think you're being too hard on DU boomers" or something like that.

Basically, it states that on THIS web site, 100% opposition to the Vietnam war would NOT be surprising because of the left leaning nature of this site. As I stated in that post, the Vietnam probably CAUSED a lot of us to BECOME leftists.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #152
153. It was reply #116.....
nm
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #140
144. I'm not your friend and yes,
you were insulting. Many of us protested the Vietnam war and lockstep has nothing to do with saying so now.

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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #144
146. Well, I consider you mine, even if you continue to mistakenly believe - despite all evidence to the
contrary - the things you do.

Have a great morning, and a splendid rest of the day! :grouphug:
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #146
147. Whether you can actually
grasp it or not doesn't make what you said any less insulting. Many of us here, I'm sure, watched as friends and family members headed out to a very unpopular, at least with us, war. Lots of them didn't come home. I was lucky that my brother came home but he's never been the same and Vietnam really screwed up his life and my family for a long time. So, you can think that we are just jumping on a popular bandwagon but it's insulting after what many of us went through.

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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #96
148. A fascinating perspective. I was thinking that back then many people probably saw good reasons to
"be involved" in the war. For many Democrats not the least of which being that it was a war waged mainly by Democrats. I suspected that the discussions we hear today on present wars, Iraq, Afghanistan, now Libya, are echos of similar discussions taking place back then.
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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
101. I was born in 1957 : My first thought was that it was "cool"
So I never faced the draft and was 5 or 6 years old before I became aware of a war. I remember thinking "Wow! That's cool they are having a war just like we do when we play Army." Later I remember being aware of the casualty numbers and thinking that it was weird that it was so lopsided.

In 1969 or so I had become aware enough to begin to oppose the war myself. My parents also turned against the war at this time. (As a family we supported Nixon in '68 ... I honestly don't know why we that deluded. I guess my family had hard core Republican roots at that point and it was a hard break to make.) In '69 the war is actually why my family became democrats. When we make a move we make a big move. We became antiwar liberals in the space of about 16 months.

I think my reflections are somewhat unique as I was a very impressionable kid during most of the war period. After 1969 or so my own political understanding had grown enough for me to know that I whole heartedly opposed it and the draft.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
103. I was born in 1949, I marched against the Vietnam war every chance I got.
To answer your question: I was totally, unequivocally against it.

sw
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
109. 0 from this anti war hippy.
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
110. Funny how when you have a draft, you are not as fast to go to war
for any reason. I was completely against this war, and I don't know if there was any talk of the people of South Vietnam and how they would be affected on a personal level. From what I remember, the reason for being there is to "fight Communism". Not to fight to free the South or for the people of Vietnam. Just that blank word of fear that was so much like "terrorism" is today.
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howard112211 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. I wonder how the present day wars would be viewed if there was a draft.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. If and I say IF they dealt with the deferment issues that plagued
The viet nam war - we wouldn't be in any of these wars.
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #112
115. That was where my mind was going. nt
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
117. Actively against, lost friends
Split the HS class early on ~90-10. Lost childhood friends, and from both sides of the social divide, curiously.

Of those who served, one killed, one forever locally famous for literally getting a photo of his ass in National Geographic, one who never left Saigon and came back lost, lost, lost, for years really. Others who served in combat came back and simply carried on.

Of interest though, is that many who didn't serve got lost too, deeply effected, feeling threatened or betrayed, even excluded. Of those, one committed suicide, a few joined cults, and many more lived at the margins for a decade or more after. "Dropping out" was sometimes more like feeling "kicked out". Others just picked up and carried on, quite a few with advanced degrees, or maybe the wisest ones, who gathered in healthy, happy communities.

So I was interested and started to track the trauma in other generations and other forms of social trauma as well.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
119. I led my sixth-grade debate team in opposition in 1967.
The class voted after the debate. It was about 50/50 for or against.

My whole family was against it, including my dad, a combat engineer during WW 2.
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ohheckyeah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
121. That would be ZERO support
from myself and most people I knew. For my generation this was the first in your face screwing from our government and it set our attitudes toward government for life for many of us.
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
122. Worked against, despite Army service.

I spent years counseling returning active duty service members and then vets. The human costs were (and are) immeasurable.
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dimbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
124. In what I hope was the only thing I did like Dick Cheney, I
got out of the war with deferments. Big difference: I didn't approve of good people of all colors dying for nothing, and said so at the time openly and often.


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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
125. My family supported it at first because it was billed as a war against "Communism"
and I had Latvian relatives. However, as my brothers approached draft age (and I got to hear other viewpoints in college), that all changed.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
130. Zero support.... (I was only 10 when I went to my 1st protest in 1968)
Edited on Thu Mar-31-11 10:05 PM by Luminous Animal
My dad was against the war (I don't know how my mother felt - I don't think she cared about current events back then) as was my aunt who was only 4 years older than me. She took me to the the May Day Protests in DC in 1971. That was crazy. The experience had a lifelong effect on my politics. I came home with my arms full of radical propaganda, horrifying my grandmother but giving me and my dad a lot to discuss. By 1971, anti-war sentiment was pretty commonplace but so was anti-hippie. People of a certain age who were anti-war, like my grandmother who was in her mid-fifties, were reluctant to be publicly engaged because they were afraid to be associated with radicals.
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
133. Still suffering from PTSD
That was a horrible and unjust war.

I don't see a difference between Indochina and Middle East Gulf Oil Imperialism.

Different packaging, same imperialist conflict.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #133
134. +1
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #133
136. Agree. The highest form of capitalism is imperialism
nm
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WiffenPoof Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-31-11 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
141. It Is Important To Keep In Mind...
...the fear of Communism during the Cold War. Too many years have passed since the Cold War for many here to understand that it was considered by many to be a real threat. Because of this, it had support from a wide spectrum of Americans. This is particularly true in the beginning of the war.

I was commissioned about three months after the Viet Nam war ended. I had gone to military school since I was 8 so it was pretty much expected that I would make a career of the service. I didn't. I recall being liberal even back in my college days even though I grew up in a military environment. I can only guess how really liberal I would have been had I not graduated from a military college.

I was not in favor of the war even though I was an officer in the Army. I couldn't get my head around being a "professional hit-man for the government." Seriously, that is how I felt. At the time, the life expectancy of a junior officer in the Air Defense Artillery was about seven seconds once the battle began. This was because the heat seeking Sidewinders that we used meant that you had to wait for the enemy aircraft to pass over you to get a lock on their exhaust. Of course, by then, the enemy aircraft would have dropped their ordinance on us...goodbye platoon.

More to the point, the mood of the country was so toxic against the war that it was extremely difficult to keep morale up within the unit. However, I did. The attitude of most people in the service was pretty bad. This was right after the end of the war and enlisted men were really there in lieu of going to jail. I was so used to the high morale of the military schools that I had gone to that I was extremely disappointed with the "real thing."

I stayed for three years until they wanted to send me to Korea. I decided it was time to go to graduate school. They tried like hell to retain me, but I just couldn't see spending 20+ years in the service. The slogan back then was "be all you can be." I pretty much knew that the Army wasn't going to be the "best I could be."

I admit that I was happy that I missed the war. I really wasn't that supportive of it and I certainly didn't want to give my life to a cause that I didn't believe in.

-PLA
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
145. I was neutral for most of it, didn't pay much attention
to it one way or the other. I was busy with my own life, chasing boys, the latest trends and fashion. As it went on and on and on I got more and more disgusted with the whole thing but never actively opposed it.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
149. I don't remember anyone who supported it.
I was young, but remember that it was regarded as a big mistake and that many of those who were of draft age did everything they could think of to avoid it. :(
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
151. Strongly against
I was a tween in the late 60s but was scared to death that there would still be a draft when I turned 18. My dad told me he'd happily pay to send me to Canada rather than see me drafted, and he served in WW2 as a civilian mechanic attached to the SeaBees.

Fortunately the draft ended when I was 16 or 17.
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onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-11 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
154. Here's a book with some unique perspective...
The Rise and Fall of an American Army: US Ground Forces In Vietnam 1965-1973 by Shelby L. Stanton.

http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-American-Army/dp/089141827X

Published in 1985...only 10 years after the fall of Saigon. However, this is a book of military history, not political axe-grinding.

Stanton's not exactly a wild-eyed liberal. He's a former Special Forces officer who served in Vietnam, Laos and Thailand, who retired after being wounded in action.

He's also somewhat controversial, as shown by a quick lap around the web. Some critics say he was caught with "classifed material" at his house. But his defenders say nothing was classified, he only had unclassified unit histories and such that he "borrowed" from the Pentagon.

Personal opinion - a lot of Armchair Commandos might be angry because Stanton destroyed one of their pet theories; i.e., that America "lost" the Vietnam War because its army of draftees wouldn't fight. Stanton showed that those draftees fought some horrendous, near-WWI-level battles, often unreported or under-reported in the press at the time.

Stanton also made it clear just how thin the US military was stretched at the height of the Vietnam War, thanks to the usual wonderful Pentagon "planning." IIRC, by 1969, virtually every major Army command was committed in Vietnam. If a crisis had blown up elsewhere requiring American forces, we would have been in deep trouble.
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