"The Libyans want us there." - How do we know that?

[howard112211]

Were there polls that showed conclusively that a majority of the Libyan people want us there? I mean some certainly want us there. But were all voices heard on this matter?

[tabatha]

1. They very fact that such a poll is

impossible under Gaddafi is very telling.

[howard112211]

2. I don't think by far that this conclusively proves that Libyans want Italy, France, Great Britain

and the United States acting inside of their country

[tabatha]

3. They have never wanted them

"inside the country" where that means boots on the ground.

[Distant Observer]

8. It was never impossible under Gaddafi. Western companies and media were there

[tabatha]

11. Do you know what Gaddafi does to people

who are not loyal to the "King of Africa"? He hangs them in the square for everyone to see.

[Distant Observer]

16. Beautiful propaganda, base so well on a kernel of truth. Don't believe your eyes

and all the immigrants that worked in Libya under the "dictator" and the facts of relatively decentralized and open nature of the society.

Libya was not Europe. But it was a long way from Syria or Saudi Arabia.

[tabatha]

20. He actually has done that.

And if you regard reports as propaganda, then fine.

People believe want they want to believe - I have read enough information coming from a variety of sources to verify that actually happened. Here is just one:

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/02/interview-libya-poet-protester

[The Magistrate]

21. A Paradise Of Open Politics And Free Dissent, Eh, Sir? Gaddafhi Is Jefferson Re-Incarnate....

[Vattel]

22. Why twist the words of the poster to whom you respond?

A more useful response would be to give evidence that Gaddafhi has little support in his country, or is more repressive than the rulers in Saudi Arabia.

[The Magistrate]

28. He Has A Record On the Board, Ma'am, Over The Last Few Days

My comments are perhaps slightly hyperbolic, but no distortion.

[Hugabear]

25. One could say the same thing about North Korea

The very fact that it's virtually impossible for outside media to talk to North Koreans is very telling.

Of course, I'm sure that the North Koreans are perfectly content with their situation.

[gratuitous]

4. Well, SOMEONE wants us there

And, since that comports with the interests of certain influential people, the fait is accompli. Missiles fly, ships sail, and boots get ready to hit the ground. But you can't explain it. Nobody knows how it happens, it just does. Force of nature and all that. Too complicated to figure out. Might as well support the troops, tie some yellow ribbons on convenient trees, and wave your flags.

[bluethruandthru]

5. How is a poll conducted in Libya now?

Is there a polling company calling Libyans and asking them..or stopping them on the street? :shrug:

[sabrina 1]

6. Same way people in Iraq were polled in the middle of

the slaughter. A majority wanted us out airc.

The question is valid. Who are the 'Libyan people' we are supposedly protecting? What % of them want to be 'protected'? Reading more about the makeup of the country it becomes more and more clear that the rebels may very well represent a minority of the people. If that is the case, and I think it is important to know, if the rebels win, it will be hell for those who do not support this 'revolution'. In that case, how are we helping the 'Libyan people'?

[Distant Observer]

7. Libya was an open country with companies and immigrants from all over the world

Anyone could conduct a sample-base publc opinion poll. -- the samples are only 500.

They could do it now since Gaddafi never shut down the phone system or the internet.

[sad sally]

15. From the United States of America Commerce Department:

Libya - one of the largest countries in North Africa – boasts large oil and natural gas reserves and a consumer market of almost 6 million. Since the re-establishment of diplomatic relations with Libya in 2004, the United States has lifted economic sanctions against the country and has removed Libya from the U.S. list of states that sponsor terrorism. With these new developments, Libya is now more accessible to U.S. companies.

Libya is a challenging but potentially rewarding market. With proper planning and foresight, U.S. companies can take advantage of commercial opportunities in almost every sector, from oil and gas to agriculture to telecommunications and tourism. The Libyan economy depends primarily upon revenues from the oil sector, which contributes roughly 95% of export earnings, about one-quarter of GDP, and 60% of public sector wages. The recent highs in global crude prices have allowed Libya to accumulate foreign exchange reserves estimated at $50 billion. Oil production stands at 1.7 million barrels a day and the government plans to increase these figures to three million barrels a day by 2010. Libyan authorities estimate that it would take between $7-10 billion in new investments in the oil and gas sector to reach their stated production goals.

Entering and Succeeding in the Libyan Market

Entering into any foreign market can be tricky and Libya is no exception. While there are a number of opportunities in this market, there are also major challenges that need to be managed. Libya’s legal structure is multi-layered, and its banking infrastructure primitive. Libya’s physical infrastructure requires upgrading, and telecommunications services are not adequate. Office space is limited, and the few Western-class hotels are often filled to capacity. U.S. companies wishing to send representatives to Libya are advised to expect considerable delays in obtaining Libyan visas.

In general, American products are well known and appreciated, including designer apparels, high-technology gadgetry, movies, software and other consumer products. Currently, most of these products enter Libya through third countries. Earlier this year the U.S. Commercial Service and the U.S. Mission in Libya organized the hugely successful USA Pavilion at the Tripoli International Fair. The pavilion was visited by thousands of Libyans eager to learn about U.S. products and services, demonstrating the appetite for American products.

Libya is a diverse and challenging market requiring adaptability and persistance. Careful planning and patience are the prerequesits for success in this emerging market. U.S. firms that are willing to invest time to develop market pressence should expect to reap rewards in the long-term.

http://www.buyusa.gov/libya/en/doingbusinessinlibya.html?du

[Distant Observer]

9. Scientific poll requires only 500 calls. African Union call for a poll before the shooting started

It dismissed by the opposition.

African Union now calls for a ceasefire and internationally supervised ELECTIONS.
The rebels have rejected that.

I wonder why?

[The Magistrate]

14. So You Are Now Openly Defending Gaddahfi, Sir, Not Just Opposed To U.S. And NATO Actions

Good to know....

[Distant Observer]

26. I am saying we should seek a non-killing approach to conflict resolution

At this point it is obvious that resolution that does not have representation
from all sides will result in ongoing conflict.

Gaddafi might be delusional but he may also have support and his supporters will want to be
heard and respected, just as the noble Cyrenaicans have chaffed under his oppression and want to be free.

[The Magistrate]

29. No, Sir, That Is Not What You Are Doing, And That is Clear To All Who Read This

[Romulox]

10. The divisions are likely along ethno/religious/tribal lines in Libya, rather than nationalistic...

"Misunderstanding" this is the principle mistake we made in Afghanistan, and then again in Iraq.

(I put "misunderstanding" in quotes as I assume that those pulling the strings understand the above full way--the so-called "misunderstanding" is simply how the lie is packaged for the masses.)

[dipsydoodle]

12. Sounds a load of old bollocks to me.

.

[Catherina]

13. Chalabi-types said so. Garlands and garlands of roses. Cakewalk. We promise. Days not weeks n/t

[pampango]

17. Were there polls in Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen, Syria or did people "vote" with their feet

through demonstrations? Those are not "scientific" polls either just an indication of how fed up people are?

The problem with getting rid of dictators is that they are not big on open polls (too much like voting) regarding their popularity. Most dictators seem to think that they are loved by their people, since normally few of them demonstrate or appear on TV to complain about the ruler. I bet neither Mubarak, Ben Ali nor Gaddafi realized how unpopular they were. We may think that one dictator is "good" and another is "bad" but to the people they rule dictators are rarely "good". They all rely on the military, secret police and "emergency laws" to retain power. The consent of the governed is not high on their list of their considerations.

Without polls (voting) you end up with "unscientific" judgments (like how many are willing to demonstrate) of how "loved" 40-year dictators are throughout the Middle East. Much better would be "polling" to select political leaders but dictators generally prefer their own methods of retaining power than subjecting themselves to "polling".

[EC]

18. A couple of weeks ago I saw a BBC reporter talking to a

group of rebels and they said they would hope that USA or NATO would create a no-fly zone at the very least to assist them. Does that count?

[howard112211]

24. The question is whether they represent the majority of the country.

[Fire Walk With Me]

19. We should start a commitee to do a study to send a memo about Libyans dying for freedom.

It's the American way.

No, I think Obama and the EU have done the right thing. Iran hasn't yet had its chance. And they might need outside assistance as well. Tick tock tick tock.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. We know it for the same reasons we knew the Vietnamese, Iragis, and Afghans wanted us there.

Not to mention the Grenadians, Panamanians, Mexicans and Sioux.

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” H.L. Mencken

[Kalun D]

27. If Lybyan's Knew the Truth

If they new the truth about the DU munition bombs we are using NONE of them would want us there.

We aren't helping anyone in Libya, only our own defense industries.