I want to live in a Secular country.

[Pacifist Patriot]

...and by most accounts I still do. Our government cannot make any law respecting an establishment of religion. Not to say some of our politicians don't try and many of our citizens think that's fine and dandy when they do. I know plenty of Americans who insist we're a "Christian nation," think that God is mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, and an official religion (provided it is their denomination) would be perfectly reasonable.

By contrast, the U.K. is pretty darned secular at the social level yet they have an established state religion and therefore are not a secular country. Although, for practical purposes, it usually feels like it when traveling there. ;-)

I have noticed a good number of people equating atheism and agnosticism with secularism. They are not synonymous.

Secularism is simply the perspective that government has no business dictating what religion or religious beliefs, if any, its citizens should have and that religion is a personal matter. There are countless loud and strident voices of secularism among devout believers of all faiths. Doubt me, go check out http://www.au.org/

So you can be a secular atheist, a secular Baptist, a secular Muslim, a secular Wiccan, a secular Jew, a secular Pastafarian, whatever. As long as you think it's your own business and not the state's, you're a secularist. Even if your religion governs every single personal decision you make, including whom you vote for. If you think the state has no business in the religion business, you're a secularist.

You will have to look long and hard to find the extraordinarily rare atheist who sincerely believes a government that dictated atheism as the only or preferred belief to its citizens would be a good thing. So yes, atheists are by and large, secularists, but that does not make it synonymous.

Right wing pundits who foam at the mouth about the secularists destroying our country are simply telling you that Madison, Jefferson, Adams, King, Lynn and everyone else who respects the First Amendment are full of shit. It is code for "we want a theocracy." Either that or they are simply too stupid or lazy to look up the meaning of the word.

Please forgive grammar mistakes or typos. The Nyquil and chloraseptic molecules are running rampant in the blood stream.

[CanonRay]

1. This used to be one

I remember as(or caring) what religion my friends were. Or our neighbors on the street. Nobody gave a crap, and it was a good thing.

[inna]

2. no kidding.

kr

[Lyric]

3. Don't we all?

Unfortunately, even though that's technically what the USA is SUPPOSED to be, that's not what it actually is. A secular country would have no problem electing an atheist to office, for example, because religion and politics are not supposed to be tangled up together. When's the last time you saw an "out" atheist win a seat in Congress?

We have a secular nation in name only. In practice...we have something else.

[Pacifist Patriot]

4. Agreed which is why I draw the distinction between...

the U.S. and the U.K. There is a difference between the legal status and social reality. Far as I know, Rep. Stark is the only "out" atheist in federal office.

[intaglio]

5. A Brit here, years ago some friends moved house

A couple of months later they had a party and I remember someone asking "What are the neighbours like?"

"Jehovahs Witnesses," they responded, and everybody sympathised

[hootinholler]

6. I grew up listening to the right bitching about secular humanism

Which I must admit I don't really know what it is, and thus I seriously doubt they do as well, but I digress. The point being that secular has become a shorthand for the evil they call secular humanism.

-Hoot

[Pacifist Patriot]

7. Secular and secularism are confuddling.

Secular does mean non-religious so there is a distinction (and sometimes tension) in the humanist movement between secular humanists and religious humanists, the latter primarily being comprised of Unitarian Universalist humanists and Ethical Culture.

I should have said secularist Baptists, secularist Jews, etc. I'll chalk that up to the cold medication.

That's my mistake. I should have been clearer, but I don't think it damages my OP too badly.

I agree with you. The right uses the word "secular" to mean anything godless, heathen, evil, etc. when all it refers to is anything non-religious, which in this country better damn well mean our government and our laws.

[JoeyT]

10. Secular humanists = Godless Liberal.

It's a little more complicated, but that's more or less the gist of it.

When the right uses it they mean anyone that thinks evolution should be taught in schools and that women are more than baby factories.

[eppur_se_muova]

8. Amen! (lol) nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

9. Too late to edit, but I'd like to note...

The commentary should have said "secularist atheist, secularist Baptist, secularist Muslim..." I do know the difference between secular and secularist, just really fuzzy after three days of abject misery thanks to a cold virus my husband imported from London.

[hifiguy]

11. This atheist would be perfectly happy

with a thoroughly secular polity.