Algebra question: How to figure a Paypal payment. Can anyone help me?

[Towlie]

I have to pay people certain amounts by Paypal, and I have to pay more than what I actually owe each of those other people because Paypal take out some of the money for themselves, and I can't penalize those others because I'm paying them with Paypal.

The Paypal policy is to first take out 30 cents, then take 2.9% of what's left. The remainder goes to the recipient.

What formula can I use to figure out how much to pay so that the recipients get what I owe them?

If you know the answer, please drop by http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x72725">this thread later on and post your opinion. Thanks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. I'm so done with that thread

It's embarrassing that I even posted in it at all.

[Ruby the Liberal]

2. I ain't goin anywhere near that thread.

LOL!

Amount owed - $0.30 = A

A *.029 = B

Amount Owed + $0.30 + B = amount needed to cover costs.

[Towlie]

10. Sorry, please try again.

Okay, let's say I owe $100.

Amount owed - $0.30 = A

So A = $99.70.

A *.029 = B

So B = $99.70 * .029 = $2.8913.

Amount Owed + $0.30 + B = amount needed to cover costs.

So the amount needed = $100 + $0.30 + $2.8913 = $103.1913. (We'll round that up to $103.20 just to be sure.)

Lets see if that works.

Paypal gets $103.20.

They take out $0.30, so there's $102.90 left.

They calculate 2.9% of $102.90, which is $2.9841, and deduct that amount from $102.90, leaving $99.9159, which would actually be either $99.91 or $99.92, depending upon which way they round it. They would probably pay $99.91.

So no, that's not right. Please try again.

[Ruby the Liberal]

12. Ah - thanks for the correction. I misunderstood the order of the charges.

[MindPilot]

3. No doubt there's an app for that..

See, these days you don't have to know shit.


I swear that thread was like wandering about the set of Idiocracy.

[petronius]

4. Two answers: 1) submit (X/0.971) + 0.30 where X is the amount you owe

2) submit exactly X, and tell the other people it's their own damn fault for insisting on Paypal (this is republican math).

[Sheepshank]

5. Personally I think several there are pulling our collective chains

no way does a normal thinking person want math learning to stop at the elementary school level. Surely.

[NYC_SKP]

6. Algebra is not required to solve this problem...

The ability to Google "paypal calculator" is all anyone needs, except for the few among us who design calculator websites.

http://www.rolbe.com/paypal.htm

That said, I support teaching algebra and I did work creating a formula for the PayPal problem, but Googling was a lot faster.

:P

[qb]

7. Solution: Drop PayPal & send checks.

I cancelled my PayPal account over the Wikileaks fiasco. I hardly used them anyway because delayed payments had caused problems with an online software purchase. I use my check card for my rare online purchases.

After reading about how much the banks suck out of retail sales for debit & credit transactions, I've begun withdrawing cash from a no-fee ATM and using that for in-store purchases.

[hlthe2b]

8. I always enjoyed algebra, geometry ... calculus not so much...

And, yes, I do use algebra in daily life--not infrequently. I would have uses for geometry as well, but I manage to avoid that kind of work on most occasions.

I missed the original thread and the answer has been given already on this one, several times. So, what is the point?

[Phentex]

9. What is Paypal?

:sarcasm:

[Bandit]

11. Anyone that accepts paypal understands there is a percentage lost.

You don't owe anyone anything..Both you and the Merchant understand how it works to accept credit cards..No math needed.

[rucky]

13. What's algebra?

x is what you owe that person

p = x * 1.029 + 30

[Aviation Pro]

14. p =(x*1.029) +.30

Put it in Excel in the formula bar.

[rucky]

15. Damn!

But it comes out even if you count my two cents

[Towlie]

16. Sorry, no. Rucky and Aviation Pro are both wrong.

p =(x*1.029) +.30

Lets try that with a $100 payment:

x = $100, the amount that you want the recipient to get, and p is the amount you send, so the formula is

p = ($100 * 1.029) + $0.30.

You can do that pretty easily in your head. It comes to $102.90 + $0.30 = $103.20.

I already showed in my post #10 that $103.20 for $100 isn't correct, but I'll reproduce the math here:

Paypal gets $103.20.

They take out $0.30, so there's $102.90 left.

They calculate 2.9% of $102.90, which is $2.9841, and deduct that amount from $102.90, leaving $99.9159, which would actually be either $99.91 or $99.92, depending upon which way they round it. They would probably pay $99.91.

So no, that's not right. In fact, nobody has come up with the correct answer yet.

[bluestate10]

19. Towlie. You are right only if Paypal paid everyone at once.

Re-read the problem. The poster want to pay multiple people. Each time Paypal pays a person, it takes (x*0.029) + $0.30 for itself. So in you example of the payee having $100 deposited in Paypal, that $100 would be used to pay the first person, say $30. After the first payment, the amount left (Y) is 100 - (30 + ((100)*0.029)+ 0.30). Since Y decrease with each payment and Paypal applies the 2.9% and the $0.30, the right way to calculate this problem would require a differential equation. Of course, the poster could simply figure out how much is owed total to all people that must be paid and put an amount in sufficient to pay all, but that route is inefficient from a money management standpoint because it end up paying Paypal more money than required.

[Aviation Pro]

20. Now that the order of operation is explained try this....

...(103.20 - .30)x = 100
102.90x=100
x=100/102.90
x=0.972

Run that bad boy in Excel.

Have a good math day.

[NashVegas]

17. Let Them Invoice You

[DeadEyeDyck]

18. Let's see, I used to know this

Carry the one and April has 30 days except leap year with I before E except after C.

That should do it or hire an accountant.

[Luminous Animal]

21. =((p-.30)*2.9%).30+p

[JVS]

22. Somebody find a scientist.

[bluestate10]

23. If you are running a business where you make payments to the same people

or companies, you are better off doing wire transfer from you checking account, where you approve every wire. I your volume is small, Paypal has you, there is no other route that is inexpensive and convenient for you and payees.

[JVS]

24. Ok. R is amount received, and P is initial payment size

R=.971(P-.30) describes how much they get. If you want the formula for how much to pay for them to get a certain amount, then solve it for P

P-.30 = R/.971

P= .30 + (R/.971)

Let's check an example. From your verbal description a P of 100.3 should yield your receiver 97.1 let's plug it in.

R= .971 (100.30-.30) = .971(100)=97.1 Great it works. Now let's back substitute it to see if we get the right number if our goal is to have them receive 97.1

P=.30 + (97.1/.971)= .30+100= 100.30

Looks good to me.

So you can use the formula for P to determine how big your payment should be if you want them to get R, or you can use the formula for R to determine how much they'll get if you pay in any amount P.

[Motown_Johnny]

25. Hmmm.....

The problem here seems to be that you want an exact amount to go to the person you are paying while Paypal doesn't care about that.


Paypal's formula is set up to collect it's fee and give the rest to whoever is supposed to get the money. The person (or company) who signs up to receive Paypal payments accepts these conditions and either figures that payment into their selling price or simply accepts the fee as a cost of doing business.


This isn't like Western Union where you can wire someone exactly $100.00 and they will charge you a fee above and beyond that to guarantee that the person receives the full $100.00.








In the example above you want to get $100.00 to someone and so the others here added the 2.9% fee plus the 30 cent charge onto the $100.00 to try and come up with an answer. Unfortunately you are now dealing with a number larger than $100.00 upon which the 2.9% fee will be charged. This 2.9% will be larger than the 2.9% of the original $100.00.

This isn't exactly an algebra equation as I understand it, although things may have changed since I was in high school.



I think you are looking for some type of differential equation.

[Towlie]

26. Yes! That's the key that almost everyone here is missing!

Unfortunately you are now dealing with a number larger than $100.00 upon which the 2.9% fee will be charged. This 2.9% will be larger than the 2.9% of the original $100.00.

That's right! The magic percentage is not 2.9%, it's the number you get by subtracting 2.9% from 100%, dividing that number into 100%, and then subtracting 1 from the result, like this:

100% - 2.9% = 97.1%,

100% / 97.1% = 1.02986611740474,

1.02986611740474 - 1 = 0.02986611740474 = 2.986611740474%.

That number can be rounded off to 3% and possibly be over a penny but never under, so the answer boils down to adding 3% plus 30 cents to the amount you want the other person to receive.

Conclusion: Dropping algebra classes from our schools is a really bad idea. They don't seem to be teaching it very well as it is!

[Yo_Mama]

27. It's not hard even when exhausted.

X = Payment Recipient Gets From Paypal
P = Payment sent through Paypal

X = P - $.30 - 0.029(P - $.30)

Solve for P:

X + $.30 = P - 0.029P + 0.029($.30)

sub P(1 - 0.029); 0.0087 giving

X + $.30 = P(1 - 0.029) + 0.0087

X + $.30 - 0.0087 = P(0.971), or

X + 0.2913 = P(0.971), or

X/0.971 + 0.2913/0.971 = P

P = X/0.971 + $0.30

For ease of computation:

P = X (1/0.971) + $0.30, or

P = X(1.029866) + $0.30

If X = $1,000:

P = $1,029.87 + $0.30 or $1030.17

So if I send $1,030.17 through Paypal, my recipient gets
A) $1,030.17 - $.30 = $1,029.87 -
B) $1029.87 X 0.029 = $29.87, and yes,
my recipient receives $1,000

The people on the algebra thread don't want to be offended by this stuff, though.

The most important thing about basic algebra is that it requires just enough mental discipline to transform words into equations, and then with knowledge of a very few basic rules, one gains a great deal of analytical scope. There is a huge return for relatively little study.