Can we just *talk* about Japan/radiation worst case scenarios?

[CoffeeCat]

Regardless of how you feel about nuclear power, or what you believe will or will not happen--it is
apparent that the media has left many people thirsting for facts regarding the radiation released
in Japan.

I understand that the Japanese officials have been less-than forthcoming about what is happening. However,
there has been a very serious lack of information (and sometimes conflicting information) about what exactly is
happening; what these events mean; and the radiation and health threats that people around the world could face.

I've read articles from very prominent news sources that seemed to whitewash everything. One New York Times
article offered a rose-colored-glasses slant that was easily debunked in the comments section. Yesterday, the
Times showed us a colored map of radiation, as it would sweep across the United States, but we were told that
it was no big deal.

Ok, seriously. I'm tired of this. I am not a child who needs to be told stories about unicorns and rainbows
until the situation is so dire that the adults feel have no choice but to break the truth. I understand that
we might not be dealing with an utter catastrophe that is worse than Chernobyl. However, since this nuclear
disaster began unfolding--it has iteratively become worse and worse. The curve is a downward trend, and it's
possible that this situation *could* spiral into the worst nuclear disaster to ever hit the planet.

But no one is discussing that and helping the people of the world prepare for worst-case scenarios.

Can we discuss this? Can we talk about planning for a situation in which harmful radiation may affect Japan and
other areas of the world? Can we have a discussion and a brainstorm session?

How can we prepare? What should people do? Are their websites? Is it possible to ascertain the likely outcomes?

DU is such a great resource. I'm sure there are people with expertise and experience in the areas of nuclear
energy, chemistry, etc.--who may be able to shed some light. And others, without expertise, may be able to
point us toward resources, or share information that you have read or learned. Opinions and thoughts are
important and helpful too!

It doesn't matter if the mainstream media is being obtuse because they don't have the story--or because they're
doing damage control for powerful nuclear-energy interests. The result is the same. The people lack reliable,
useful information and facts. This leaves us vulnerable.

I hope we can share information and opinion here.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CoffeeCat]

2. I will tune in to Rachel Maddow's show...

...that is a good idea and she is terrific about putting things in perspective.

As for the milk situation--are you talking about milk that is produced in the US? Could even
minor amounts of radiation dispersed in the US affect the milk?

As far as worst-cases and some people not wanting to hear it--that's usually because it's
too difficult to even think about it. In my opinion though--it's prudent to have that
discussion and to plan (emotionally and physically) just as you would be prepared for
an earthquake or a tornado. Yes, no one sits around waiting for a tornado or an
earthquake--but it is wise to prepare and have a plan.

Just my opinion...and I do appreciate your insight and your posts Nadinbrzezinski. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Yes milk in the US

As a aside the runs on that milk are either military or former military in this town.

Here is how it works. When you have fall out it falls into the feed. If the cow's feed is under a roof... chances are it will be nothing. But if it falls on feed outside, or they are free to graze, they eat the feed. The very minor, we would not have to worry amounts bio concentrate, and become a larger amount. That is where they MAY become significant. Especially if you have growing kids or pregnant women.

That is part of the worst case... and if we start having issues with milk it will start in two weeks from now. Of course that assumes the particles are detected and the milk is tested.

For the moment West Coast Milk. Cheese, will take a while to enter the distribution chain. Though things like cottage cheese are off my list.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OHdem10]

6. Worst cast--That whole section of Japan where the Reactors

are located will be totally uninhabitable for years.

From what I have been able to decipher, it appears the
Japanese Government have come to grips with reality.It
was reported they are looking at how Russia handled
their Meltdown, and this means they are making plans
to just put tons of dirt, concrete etc over the Reactors
just mounding it wide and high so the reactors are contained.


Another report indicates they have gotten electrical power
to numbers 5 and 6 and will be trying to connect others
so the water is running to keep things cool.

Since this type nuclear accident does not act like a bomb
there will not be big mushroom clouds filled with isotopes.
The Radioactivity will be dangerous the closer to the site.
A Professor on one of the News Programs summed it up this way
"Japan will be forever changed. The U.S. will not receive
dangerous amounts of Radioactivity. " If there is some radioacive
isotopes in the air, they will not be in the amount necessary
to harm our health.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. and the worst case includes Tokyo of all 12 cores go up

otherwise it is about a good 100 miles around it... a nasty piece of real estate that humans might safely inhabit in oh 600 years. The life of some of this crap is 10,000 years... but 600 most of the worst crap is diluted enough.

[kristopher]

51. There are 6 reactors not 12

Of the 6, 2 are not at risk.

That leaves 1-4 as participants in a possible worst case.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. 4 doesn't have fuel in the reactor. But they all have spent fuel in these cooling pools

Which are inside the buildings, outside containment. Or maybe "buildings" should be put in quotes, at least for 1, 3, and 4.

[Quantess]

3. It is very frightening.

And we "little people" seem to be out of the loop.

[CoffeeCat]

4. and that's so wrong...

...because it's possible that we could be affected. It's also
unfair to the people of Japan as well, who are at the epicenter
of this disaster. They need to be given information so they
can make the best decisions for themselves and their family.

Saying nothing and being obtuse during all of this--is unjust.

[flamingdem]

8. I think people on the West Coast want to know

- what would cause a big fallout plume, there are a few scenarios
- what is in the plume that is of most worry, cesium, iodine, plutonium, etc.
- will we be warned or are we on our own since tptb will want to avoid panic
- how long would it take for the plume to arrive
- would it help to stay inside
- what precautions should be taken
- is it better to move away out of the jet stream, where to go and for how long
- issue for children
- how to deal with people who aren't concerned

It's disturbing to see the desperation at the nuke plant in Japan. I don't believe we know enough
to determine what the risk level is to the West Coast of the USA yet. We'll know in 1
week, 1 month, 1 year, a decade, a century. It will unfold.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Will try to answer some of that

- what would cause a big fallout plume, there are a few scenarios

My best candidate is an explosion... though we technically already have a plume.

- what is in the plume that is of most worry, cesium, iodine, plutonium, etc.

All of the above, though Plutonium is very heavy so it should NOT reach the US and mostly will fall off. Especially if it stays in the surface weather pattern.

Iodine and Strontium could be an issue with milk, I explained it above.

- will we be warned or are we on our own since tptb will want to avoid panic

Chances are that depends on what you think. Suffice it to say I have taken my actions since I am a world class cynic.

- how long would it take for the plume to arrive

7-10 days.


- would it help to stay inside

Depends on the counts... chances are not really... though if you have kids I would keep the kids inside, but not really. If it rains though I would, since it washes it from the atmosphere. The levels will be that low.


- what precautions should be taken

Milk... I cannot say it enough...


- is it better to move away out of the jet stream, where to go and for how long

Worst case, there is no place to run, serious... oh wait Hawaii might, since they are out of the main stream and will get it through global circulation, even further diluted.

- issue for children

Milk to protect their growing bodies.

- how to deal with people who aren't concerned

At this point I will be very cold.. they are on their own. Oh and if we suddenly get a warning (milk) they will be the first ones to scream about not being told. It happens every time.

:-)

[flamingdem]

10. Noodling around on Google I found some conflicting information

about time of arrival. I read that the knots blah blah mean the plume would arrive in 4 days.

Also, it looks like the Southern sphere did not get jet stream fallout from Chernobyl so Central Mexico and lower could be an evasive maneuver.. but of course when does one return if the stuff just keeps going around the earth..

Worst case scenario that I read is breathing in a particle - cesium/plutonium, quicker cancer, lung cancer, leukemia as opposed to thyroid cancer from milk, pretty easy to cure that one.

Hmm. cynic is right... but they say cynics live longer! It makes sense. That happy go lucky type is not great on the survival level.;)

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Hubby was a navigator for the Navy

I asked... he said 7-10 days... 4 would be really fast... probably in the middle of a storm. And remember this went off a week ago... eight days ago... today we got some in Sacramento.

[SlimJimmy]

15. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the article I linked to from the EPA. And STOP spreading panic,

conjecture, wild assed guesses, or voodoo. FFS, it's getting OLD.

Following the explosion of the Chernobyl plant in Ukraine in 1986 – the worst nuclear accident in world history – air monitoring in the United States also picked up trace amounts of radioactive particles,less than one thousandth of the estimated annual dose from natural sources for a typical person.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/d0cf6618525a9efb85257359003fb69d/a765bae82e458d3485257857007373a5!OpenDocument

[marions ghost]

18. when you live in a country

where news and information is suppressed, you are left with conjecture.

I trust people conjecturing on the internet much more than the EPA or any other dot gov spokesperson.
You have to get information from many sources.

As in Katrina, the Bush Wars, Deepwater Horizon, we are on our own to figure it all out.

The gov message will be "nothing to see here"--regardless of the situation. You can't tell people who have seen the most egregious lies and obfuscations in recent years not to be gravely concerned.

:shrug:

[SlimJimmy]

23. Hardly. This EPA is run by a Democratic administrator and is very

much in tune with the truth when it comes to the environment. Besides, the readings on the west coast from Chernobyl are historical FACT (Something Nadin plays fast and loose with quite often). My comments stand.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. See corexit is safe nine months ago, from the same EPA

[marions ghost]

27. yep

corexit :thumbsdown:

[SlimJimmy]

36. What the hell do you know about solvents? Well, other than what you Googled? (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. What panic? And you do KNOW they detected Xenon yesterday

in Sacramento RIGHT? Or where you that asleep?

Now Plutonium, if it gets here all we know will be off the window... it is a very heavy metal after all.

I prefer to live in reality... and INFORMATION is not panic inducing. It actually helps to reduce it by orders. TO UNDERSTAND what is going is preferable to not knowing... ok the much preferred is to hide head in sand and all is well in the world

I guess if that makes you happy... serious.

[SlimJimmy]

35. The way YOU present it makes it a disaster in the making because your posts

are sans factual information (for the most part). Did you happen to read the EPA report, or was that too exhausting between your Google searches?

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. I sugest the ignore if it bothers you so much

I will use it. buy bye

[SlimJimmy]

41. Not a problem. I consider myself to be in a pretty esteemed group. (nt)

[Obamanaut]

74. A very large group. nt

[Obamanaut]

72. Another one? Has anyone ever, ever disagreed and NOT been put on ignore? nt

[CoffeeCat]

80. With all due respect...

I understand that you have the utmost faith and belief in the EPA. However, please
remember that the EPA told us that the air at 'ground zero' was safe to breath in.
Look at those who have died as a result. And those people were our brave firefighters
and police officers.

Also, Obama's EPA recently told BP to stop dumping Corexit into the ocean. BP ignored
the orders and kept dumping. Then, the line was that Corexit was safe and so were
the levels that were being dumped. So many researchers and scientists said the
opposite. Jaques Cousteau's, an expert on these matters and someone who has warned
about oil and Corexit before--said it is very dangerous.

Our government, including the EPA is loyal to the payers--the corporations. Especially
when it's "We The People" against the corporations. They always win the information war.

They certainly did in the BP case.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could read something from the EPA and take it as
gospel, with so much evidence demonstrating a complete breakdown in our government
and the corruption.

I rely on scientists, researchers and independent sources of information. These are very hard
to find at times during a complex disaster that requires specialize/scientific knowledge, but
those voices are out there.

I strongly suggest that if you take the EPA as the ultimate truth--that you also check other
sources as well--to ensure that you aren't getting bad information that could affect your
health.

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. Would that be the same EPA that covered up the toxicity at Ground Zero?

I thought so. And I don't give 2 hoots if it's a Republican or Democratic administrator at EPA. THEY LIE! They ALL LIE. I don't trust our government at all, EVER. We're all on our own.
<snip>
EPA: Concealing and Aggravating a Health Catastrophe

In the days and weeks following the attack the Environmental Protection Agency gave assurances to New Yorkers that the dust permeating Lower Manhattan and the smoke still emanating from Ground Zero did not pose a health risk. The agency issued five press releases within ten days of the attack assuring people that the air was safe to breathe, despite an absence of data to support such assurances. 3 In August of 2003, it was revealed that the EPA had been muzzled by the Bush administration. EPA Inspector General Nikki Tinsley issued a report on August 21, 2003, admitting that the reassurances were unfounded, and that the public statements of the agency were being influenced by the National Security Council, under the direction of the White House. The EPA, according to the report, had been influenced to "add reassuring statements and delete cautionary ones."

A 2004 report by the Sierra Club went further than previous reporting in detailing the cover-up of the public health hazards of Ground Zero. The report's summary indicates gross malfeasance by EPA, FEMA, and OSHA.

<snip>

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/environment.html

[SlimJimmy]

34. What part of the EPA is now run by Democrats is not clear? It might help to actually *read* your

posts before posting them in the future. I remember every one here (well, a majority anyway) extolling the virtues of the new EPA under President Obama. Especially when they were given the authority to regulate green house gasses. Well, you can't be for them one day then against them when it suits your needs.

In August of 2003, it was revealed that the EPA had been muzzled by the Bush administration.

[in_cog_ni_to]

38. I DID read my post and I remember VIVIDLY the EPA LIES after 911. DEMOCRAT or

REPUKE leading the EPA....makes no difference! That was my point. THEY ALL LIE WHEN IT SUITS THEM. I don't trust ANY government organization....be they headed by a Repuke or Democrat. Democrats lie too.

[SlimJimmy]

Facts don't lie. The fact that there was very little radiation detected on the west coast after

Chernobyl (something the government couldn't hide if they wanted to) should be enough to give folks like Nadin pause. But nooooo, she still insists on her headlong quest to run in circles screaming about radiation plumes and bad milk hitting the west coast. Do government agencies lie? I'm sure they do. But the EPA under President Obama has had a pretty good track record so far - not perfect, but pretty good. I guess we'll just dismiss them when it suits our needs.

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. Not when it suits MY needs. ALWAYS.

I don't trust ANY government organization. Especially the EPA and the FDA. No freakin' way. I'll follow my own gut on this.

[SlimJimmy]

53. And you'll be wrong - just like Nadin. (nt)

[Warren DeMontague]

49. And what's the difference beween weather patterns from the Ukraine to the West Coast

and weather patterns from Japan to the West Coast?

Also, what's the difference in amounts of high level nuclear material at the Fukashima site and Chernonbyl, in tons?

I remember Chernobyl. I remember contamination problems being found in Scotland and Greece. It is reasonable for people in places far away to have concern.

[SlimJimmy]

54. 7000 plus miles. That is all (nt)

[Warren DeMontague]

59. Again, weather patterns. You may be comfortable with 'tiny' amounts of plutonium blowing your way

...but I'm not.

Again, the sheer tonnage of material at this site; in the reactors as well as the spent fuel pools-- should give anyone pause. We may well avert a major catastrophe, here, but that won't mean this clusterfuck was 'safe'.

Until last week, I was mildly pro-more nuclear power, leaving aside the (very salient) fact that we STILL have no idea what to do with the waste. Now? If they can't design these things to shut themselves off, cool themselves down AND seal themselves up in the event of an emergency, they have no business operating them under ANY circumstances.

[SlimJimmy]

67. We get more radiation from our annual dental x-rays than we will ever get from Japan.

And yes, I'm very comfortable with that.

[Warren DeMontague]

68. Even if we don't get hit, a serious accident could render large portions of Japan uninhabitable

for the foreseeable future.

I don't see how anyone can be comfortable with that, honestly. It's irresponsible.

[SlimJimmy]

75. We weren't discussing the long term consequences to Japan.

We were discussing the relative radiation hazard to the West Coast of the United States. I never said anything about being comfortable with what might happen to Japan. How could you possibly interpret what I said and come to that conclusion?

[Warren DeMontague]

77. I'm sorry. I thought you were being blase about the threat posed by nuclear accidents in general.

I'm glad to hear that you realize this crap isn't worth the monumental risk.

[SlimJimmy]

79. Fair enough (nt)

[Obamanaut]

33. Was that actually a quartermaster, an assistant to the navigator? nt

[cemaphonic]

16. Answers

- what would cause a big fallout plume, there are a few scenarios
- Full meltdown of fuel through all levels of containment hitting groundwater, triggering a huge steam explosion. Extremely improbable for this to happen at this point. What is possible is for the fuel that they are having trouble keeping coolant on to catch fire. This would release a bunch of fallout too, though not as much, and not as far.

- what is in the plume that is of most worry, cesium, iodine, plutonium, etc.
- Cesium, Strontium and Plutonium are nasty toxic metals with long half-lives. But they won't make it far enough in sufficient concentration for anyone in the US to worry about. Iodine-131 is very radioactive and dangerous and is light enough to travel a good deal further, but has a very short half-life, and has the whole Pacific Ocean to disperse over.

- will we be warned or are we on our own since tptb will want to avoid panic
- There is no govt monopoly over the ability to detect radiation - If there were some way for significant amounts of radiation to reach the West Coast, it's not something the government would be able to keep a lid on. Soviets tried this with Chernobyl which worked for about 3 days before the entire Northern Hemisphere collectively said "so, what's up with all the radiation?" Plus, the mass media would be pitching even more of a fit then they already are.

- how long would it take for the plume to arrive
- 7-10 days seems to be the commonly accepted model.

- would it help to stay inside
- No - Especially if you live in an area with higher-than-normal radon concentration.

- what precautions should be taken
- Donate to Japan relief organizations. Those are the folks that need help right now. Also, if you don't already have an emergency kit, nothing like a major disaster to put a fire under your butt to put one together. And, if you want to keep on top of recent developments, coverage by NHK World, and the IAEA reports have been much more complete, timely and less sensationalistic than the western commercial news corps. BBC is probably the best of the big western sources. CNN, Fox and MSNBC have all been completely worthless.

- is it better to move away out of the jet stream, where to go and for how long
- No.

- issue for children
- This isn't a question.

- how to deal with people who aren't concerned
- They're right. People should be concerned about how this will affect Japan. There is no risk to the US, and acting like there is when people in Japan are suffering much more immediate and serious problems than radiation makes us look like the kind of under-informed narcissists that half the world already thinks we are.

[a la izquierda]

19. +10000

I'm concerned for the Japanese, not for my California family becoming radioactive (though I worry about them for other reasons).

[Whisp]

21. thank you. It's the Japanese that need the help and worry right now

you are so right - glad this was put out there as plainly as you said. Needed to be done instead of selfishly thinking of our own asses at this point in time. But I do understand the worry.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Frankly, given that we're talking about large amounts of shit like plutonium potentially being lofted into the jetstream, I'm fucking sick of people thinking they're entitled to scold anyone on the west coast who expresses even a modicum of concern.

[Lucinda]

13. Another thing to remember....if this continues,

is that there will be more and more coming across to the west coast. The wind does shift in Japan, so it can blow it in other directions too, but as long as there is still leakage and venting, it will continue to be spread.

[cemaphonic]

14. Here is the current report from the IAEA

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

My take is that the possibility of the true worst-case risk - the cores melting through the containment and hitting groundwater - has passed, especially if they are successful in the next couple of days in getting power/pumping going. I'd say the current worst case scenario is that the fuel in either/all of the suspect cores breaches(2, 3) and the spent fuel pools (3, 4) is exposed to air for too long and burns. This would create a vector for all of the really nasty long half-life isotopes to spread further than the immediate vicinity of the plant. My worst-case:

1) Plant site is dangerously contaminated long term (unfortunately, this is probably true in the best case as well)
2) Current exclusion zone (20-30 km) suffers fallout to the extent that it will have to be abandoned, at least until extensive and costly decontamination can be performed.
3) Other parts of Japan (and possibly nearby bits of Korea, China and Siberia) suffer fallout enough to suffer statistically significant health risks. Not hugely so, but enough to be measurable.
4) No threat to the rest of the world. There's not really a vector for all of the heavy metals byproducts like strontium, cesium etc to make it all that far absent a Chernobyl-style explosion + graphite fire. Lighter radioactive isotopes (like the iodine that everyone is freaking out over) have much shorter half-lives, and will also disperse over distance. Maybe an slight uptick in the background radiation of E Asia and the Western Pacific for awhile, but nothing to worry about.

[SkyDaddy7]

17. Anytime you see a scientist named Michio Kaku on TV...

He has been making his rounds on all the channels...He will tell you everything you would want to know about this topic.

Just to let you know how ahead of the game he is Michio was calling for these reactors to be buried in boric acid, dolomite, sand & cement at least two to 3 days prior to anyone.

There are plenty of videos of him on YouTube over the past few days! Here are some.

3/12/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5UvAH11CjM

3/17/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PREzwzXPd0A

3/18/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DkCD5IInMY



BTW-His books are wonderful as well!

[Frank Cannon]

20. The WORST case scenario? You will die.

But you were going to do that anyway.

Seriously, worry more about the drunk drivers on the roads as you make your way home from work.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Really? We shouldn't worry about large swaths of land being uninhabitable for thousands of years?

Because that is part of what is at stake, here.

I'm hoping that the worst case scenarios can be averted, but if they happen, it would VERY MUCH be a big deal. "Catastrophe" doesn't even begin to cut it.

ETA: I can assure you that there are a lot of parents of small children out there, right now, who will tell you that there are things they fear much more than themselves dying.

[TNLib]

22. No one knows how bad it will get

No one can predict what kind of effect it will have over here in the US. If there was complete meltdown at one of the reactors because of different variables you really couldn't predict how it will effect us over here. Hopefully they will be able to cool the reactors and fuel rods soon and we won't have any effect over here because right now you are in no danger.

[lutefisk]

28. Good "answer"

How can anyone say that there is not and will not be any danger to North America? We don't know how this will play out over the next day, the next year, or the next 1000 years. As the saying goes, "We are in uncharted territory".

But after experiencing the lies of our government after 9/11 and the Gulf BP well disaster, I think it's prudent to discuss scenarios and seek out information on our own. Anyone who pretends to know what will happen is wrong.

:hi:

[L0oniX]

29. Hey WTF are you doing with my fly?

[lutefisk]

32. WTF am I doing with your fly?! Uh-uh... more like WTF are YOU doing with MY fly?

Or maybe we can all have a fly of our own. Or maybe we don't ever really own a fly...

:pals: :grouphug:

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. I want a fly!

:cry: :cry: :cry:

How do I get one?

[Arugula Latte]

43. Once you apply for a fly, there's a waiting period; they need to ensure you'll give it a good home

They're not giving flies to just anybody, you know.

[L0oniX]

76. Mine is house broken ...damn it!

[Warren DeMontague]

55. I like how some are *angry* that anyone might even be worried about this.

I mean, we're supposed to live in total, lock-down terror that someone might board a plane without having their shoes and underwear checked, the threat posed by pot smoking hippies and cancer grannies is so grave it requires $40 Billion a year in SWAT teams and helicopters... but a potential 'small' leak of something like plutonium? Eh, no big deal.

[Rex]

30. Of course we can talk about it, some folks just can't

help it and want everyone to have sunshine and rainbow sprinkles on others doom and gloom prediction twinkies!

See, it is all about the twinkies.

[Urban Prairie]

31. I'm no nuclear expert by any means

But one thing about the idea of burying the reactors and their fuel rods troubles me, and that is, since they must continue to keep the spent fuel rods cool by spraying seawater on them, as well as those fuel rods that were in use at the time of the earthquake, how will burying them keep them cool? Wouldn't the fuel rods begin to get hotter and hotter, albeit perhaps much more slowly due to the lack of air circulation, and eventually become super-hot and melt down anyway within their dirt and cement tomb(s)? If so, wouldn't that cause the fuel rods to become a super-hot, radioactive molten mass, and begin to burn through the earth beneath it, as well as much of the "smothering" dirt, chemical, and cement mix surrounding it ?

[SlimJimmy]

37. There was a discussion concerning this in another thread. And I believe the uptake was that the

rods would cool over time. The main concern was the spent fuel burning and releasing radiation into local areas. The long term problem would involve the encasement deteriorating over time with a need to replace it. Similar to what's occurring at Chernobyl.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. For you coffecat

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x691867

[JackRiddler]

44. No! A realistic assessment and assignment of probabilities to possible outcomes = panic mongering!

[pitohui]

46. do you know the difference between "information" and fear selling/mongering?

i have family in japan

your bullshit about "i hope we can share information" by which you mean bullshit scare stories is just cruel and it ain't the right time

i protested nuclear power plants probably before you were born but you know what? this is not the time to be selling fear and scare stories...people right now are undergoing trauma you can't comprehend

i was in a natural disaster in 2003 and again in 2005 (well no kidding, i'm from new orleans) to this day i suffer from natural disaster related stress syndrome, as do many other people...why stir that up and wish that on others?

you can talk all you like in PRIVATE, what is this need to scare people (including past victims) in public?

[CoffeeCat]

81. You are totally out of line..

You've protested nuclear power plants, so I'm not allowed to ask open-ended questions here?

Oh please! I never demanded, "EVERYONE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET'S SHARE HORROR THEORIES!!!"

I simply asked for a discussion.

I have no desire to "scare people" as you said. My goal was to get informed, encourage
people to add information and to help others learn as well.

You accuse me of fear mongering when in reality---your post is so full of off-the-charts hysteria and
fear mongering, just because I asked questions.

Why do you go into attack mode when someone asks for a dialog? :wtf:

[Warren DeMontague]

48. The things that concern me are the sheer amount of nuclear material and the fact that

if one situation gets out of control, it could render it impossible to deal with the rest of the complex.

If there is a massive problem involving a large percentage of the nuclear material on that site? How can anyone argue it WOULDN'T be worse than Chernobyl? It would be.

I'm really, really hoping it doesn't come to that.

But we need to face up to the horrible, horrible potential these situations involve, because it's
TIME FOR THE HUMAN RACE TO GET OFF IT'S COLLECTIVE ASS AND FIND CLEAN RENEWABLE SAFE WAYS TO POWER OUR CIVILIZATION. PERIOD.

[kristopher]

52. I think I can now answer your question "Can we just *talk* ....

"Can we just *talk* about Japan/radiation worst case scenarios?"

Apparently not at any meaningful level.

[LAGC]

57. Especially since it looks like the Japanese situation is now under control.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x693213

Guess all you anti-nukers who bitched and moaned about the end of the world were dead wrong after all.

[kristopher]

58. Considering how many in my family are under direct threat...

from events at Fukushima, you should be happy that we are only connected by electrons.

[LAGC]

61. So you live within 20km of the plant? Really?

Because if you live in America, you're risk of being harmed is about... ZERO.

So the local milk got a little irradiated. So the locals will have to wait a couple weeks before they can trust local food sources again.

Big deal. Minimal leakage, minimal damage, minimal risk.

And Fukushima was an older reactor. Yet even it withstood a 9.0 quake. Now consider that every reactor being built today is much more safe.

And what do you have left to fear-monger and demonize nuclear power with now? More fancy charts and deceptions?

[kristopher]

63. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x279539

[Warren DeMontague]

60. You've gotta be kidding me.

A drunk driver careens off the road and misses hitting your family by a measure of inches, are you going to immediately start whining about the 'safety ninnies' who don't want people driving drunk?

[kristopher]

70. ++++++1

This entry is awarded first prize for brevity and accuracy.

:toast:

[Octafish]

56. World Nuclear News is informative on the disaster and what it means...

The not-for-profit's nonpartisan: http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/

[kristopher]

64. You mean the WNN that says on their front page they are a PR group?

nd I quote, "This information service is supported by World Nuclear Association."


That is called "Astroturfing" when you claim this group is not an industry shill.

[Octafish]

66. Thank you for your kind correction, kristopher.

Glad to see that on the front page there they make clear they are an industry-affiliated not-for-profit.

[kristopher]

69. Industry FUNDED, my good friend; INDUSTRY *F*U*N*D*E*D*

You know, Like all of those groups that have been fronting for the Koch Brothers?

[Octafish]

71. So, where do you get your information?

I'd like to know where you got so smart.

[kristopher]

73. Which is it; do you want to know about my library or my IQ? nt

[Octafish]

78. The thread asked for information.

I want to know where you get yours in regards to the disaster on Honshu.

You seem to have a problem with my suggestion because it's a trade association site. I don't care if you call it or me "astroturf." The site does provide clear and accurate explanations of what's going on at Fukushima Daiichi, Fukushima Daini and to the people of Japan.

So, where do you get information about the ongoing nuclear disaster?

[TBF]

65. I'm seeing reports about radiation in food. That can't be good. nt