Can we all agree now that Obama's failure to go to WI, was a failure?

[grahamhgreen]

Of course, it's still not too late, he can still get out there, or at least get on the TV, if he's on our side.

Edited to add - How does not winning in WI make this a win?

Really, it's time to reflect on how we could have won in WI.

You don't win battles by ignoring them.

[PeaceNikki]

1. No. This is the people's fight.

I prefer he stay in DC and let us handle it.

We've got it.

[grahamhgreen]

5. You don't have it. We lost.

[PeaceNikki]

12. Watch what happens in the next few weeks. This isn't over.

[Bluerthanblue]

26. I believe you are right-

:hi:

!

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. The battles of labor are NOT won or fought in a single battle

Perhaps I should send you the very muddy, draft zero (so far) of my history of labor. Let's say the ten hour day took 25 years, and bodies. And the Eight hour day... that took forty five, and again piles of bodies.

THis is just the beginning. THey won the battle, not the war. Oh and the battle is still in the air by the way.

[JackRiddler]

86. False. This is nowhere near over.

[Hannah Bell]

103. wrong.

[buddysmellgood]

16. Nope. This thing is grassroots. People power.

[flamingdem]

41. More power to you PeaceNikki you have a great attitude

and I agree that Obama does not belong in the midst of the fight in Madison.

[Erose999]

54. He doesn't stand with the people. He stays in Washington with the corporate money.

[flamingdem]

62. The Unions are his NO. 1 Supporter in Elections! Refute that! nt

[NoTimeToulouse]

64. Possibly that "are" may change to "were" if the unions are bust.

[flamingdem]

69. That does not refute the fact that Obama is with the Unions, that is the point nt

[NoTimeToulouse]

122. Those comfortable shoes are still in a closet someplace.

Tell me this again when he actually practices what he has preached and I will make amends.

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. That IS the GOP plan and welcome to DU

and the NATIONAL LEADERS (and some here on DU) have missed that by a mile.

[NoTimeToulouse]

123. Missed by accident or on purpose?

[Donnachaidh]

84. his total lack of support of the Wis workers proves he no longer believes that

After all, his Goldman Sach buddies have his attention and support now. He no longer needs US.

[Erose999]

96. The unions are the #1 supporter of anyone on the (D) ticket. The DNC could nominate my cup of coffee

and the Unions would support it over Mayor McCheese or Sarah Failin' or Mittens or Huckleberry or "Eye of Newt" or whoever else the GOP nominates.

[NoTimeToulouse]

63. Yet he would hold a beer summit for something far less?

Although I admire Professor Gates, and the situation that he was in was unfortunate and humiliating, President Obama spent more time on that one racial issue than on the busting of the unions...the lifeblood of the Democratic party in WI.

[PeaceNikki]

76. Who cares? We don't want or need him here. He will distract from the message.

[NoTimeToulouse]

124. Keep on repeating that mantra, dawg.

Maybe it will stick someday.

[PeaceNikki]

126. "Dawg"?

Eat shit, asshole.

[AngryAmish]

105. This is the People's Eyebrow

[PeaceNikki]

110. lolz

[SidDithers]

125. +1...

the people's fight :thumbsup:

Sid

[MadHound]

2. His silence is deafening, his inaction, condemning, n/t

[PeaceNikki]

10. I disagree. I'm directly involved in the WI events and I don't want him any more involved than he's

been. He stated his position and that's all we need. This is grassroots, real and working. We do NOT need to turn this into a circus about him.

[larkrake]

28. you are wrong

[jefferson_dem]

3. No. "We" cannot "all" agree on that...

Of course he's on "our" side. Don't be silly.

[VoteProgressive]

15. Well, I agree he is on our side internally. But maybe needs to be more vocal about it...

at times. I love the man but he needs to actually be willing to be more vocal about some issues.

[kenny blankenship]

22. Internally, he is for a Public Option.

But you see how that manifests itself, externally, in a individual mandate. Internally he is on your side. You should really believe that! But externally...

[Freddie Stubbs]

4. No

What happened would have happened, regardless of the President's involvement. They had the votes to do what they wanted to do, regardless of how big of a protest there was.

[grahamhgreen]

18. Is he really that ineffectual? I think he can still do a great deal of good, if he wants to.

[Ninga]

25. The way I read your answer is akin to thinking it makes sense to not visit a dying

person....because, well you know, the're going to die anyway.

Our President is, among many many things, our moral leader.

To avoid supporting working people, is to deny the history of how we got here, and what had to go before us, to get workers rights.

[NoTimeToulouse]

73. What happened would have happened.

I'm not so sure of that. It is always a possibility that Walker would have give a big FU to President Obama, but had enough pressure had been put on WI then who knows? The only certainty is that those comfortable shoes the president keeps remain tucked away in his closet.

[tabatha]

6. It would not have made a difference.

Walker would have done exactly the same thing. Nothing would have stopped him. Then Obama would have looked like failure.

I think his not going has resulted in the focus being on the tactics the republicans have used - and this has riled up a lot of people - independents and republicans included.

I would say that his NOT going there was the opposite of failure.

[grahamhgreen]

23. How bout Obama pulling the Federal funds for the state - I think that would have stopped him!

We failed to win in Wisconsin. It is a failure. Obama does look like a failure.

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. Presidents can unilaterally withold funds from states?

I'm surprised that weapon doesn't get used more often, then. Which president used it the most?

I disagree that it is a failure. Walker and the Republicans have had to admit this was never about the budget at all - they've had to divorce the anti-union measures from anything to do with the budget. It's now seen as pure class warfare, initiated by the Republicans against working people. Polls show that is very unpopular.

If Obama had joined in the protests, the Republicans would have tried to paint it as interference in a state issue, which would help them rally the Tea Partiers. This way, it's the rich and powerful Republican politicians versus ordinary people.

[apocalypsehow]

102. That's called "impoundment," and was ruled unconstitutional by the USSC in 1975. n/t.

Edit: typo.

[Pirate Smile]

65. There is no way that would even be legal. Get a grip.

[Kahuna]

82. WI voters would have loved that.

:eyes:

[apocalypsehow]

104. See #102 - I replied to the wrong poster. n/t.

[atreides1]

30. The opposite of failure

Tell that to the public workers whose pay will go down 8% while prices go up!

I think people want him to fight, to stand up, not stand apart!

It doesn't matter, the talking heads will still spin it as a failure.

[tabatha]

33. Hopefully the outrage will ensure that

Republicans are voted out in large numbers.

Hopefully, people's eyes are being opened and will never close again.

[atreides1]

7. The President isn't on anyone's side

And we will just have to live with that fact.:-(

[xchrom]

14. +1

[joeybee12]

24. Except his own...nt

[uncle ray]

68. that's what i like about him.

sides are the problem.

[grahamhgreen]

106. Sooner or later - everone chooses a side.

[firehorse]

8. Time to throw comfortable shoes at him

And time for him to fire his Bush Family Advisors

[Pirate Smile]

9. No. He couldn't have changed the dynamic. The Republicans still had the same number of votes they do

now.

It would have just been portrayed as a huge Obama defeat along with what it already looks like.

[grahamhgreen]

29. Is he really that ineffectual?

[Pirate Smile]

45. LOL. The Republicans had the votes. The only way to change that FACT is to get Republicans to vote

with the Democrats. The current polarized environment toward the President, where Republicans can't even acknowledge his legitimacy as President without being worried about their crazy base holding it against them, does not make it more likely that he could convince Republicans to vote with the Dems.

The pressure from their neighbors, friends, and local constituents would be more likely to be effective.

I love how you must throw in a little nasty-gram toward the President in every comment. As if that will in ANY way make it more likely that Democrats/Labor/Progressives/etc. will be able to win these battles in the future. If anything, I think it weakens us - but, hey, by all means, just keep doing it. It provides a nice assist to the Republicans by dividing Democrats instead of maintaining our focus on Republicans as the actual problem.

[PeaceNikki]

51. Again - are you in WI? Have you been to Madison?

You don't seem to have a good grasp of what's going on here.

[whathehell]

11. I agree...

His Goldman Sachs buddies might not be happy with it.

[TBF]

13. Unrec, absolutely not. With his obvious anti-labor views he should be nowhere

near our protests.

[flamingdem]

74. Please put links that show Obama is anti-Labor nt

[dionysus]

92. you'll be waiting a long time....

[TBF]

94. NYT this week - Obama administration refers to protests as "distraction" -

they are marring his beautiful vision of "win the future". Unfortunately his "future" takes us back about 100 years in labor law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/us/politics/04staff.html?scp=2&sq=protests%20distraction%20obama&st=cse

[SalviaBlue]

17. No

[sinkingfeeling]

19. No.

[tammywammy]

20. Not at all. This is a state issue, not a federal one.

Obama nor any other president, regardless of party, has no business interfering with an issue like this that is clearly a state issue and not a federal one.

[grahamhgreen]

27. Workers rights are not a state issue - they are a national and international issue.

[PeaceNikki]

31. Well, you've thrown the towel in and called it a loss so I will take your opinion

with a grain of salt.

[tammywammy]

71. This is a state specific issue, the federal government has no part in the discussion

Obama should stay away.

[QC]

21. If he went, he would probably get all reachy outy with Scott Walker

and make some abominable "compromise," as is his wont.

It's best for him to stay out of Wisconsin.

[Bluerthanblue]

32. nope-

i'm part of the "all" and i don't agree-

This isn' over. Not by a long shot.

:hi:

[blondeatlast]

34. Nope--partisanship would kill this thing. We, the People, are winning--we just

lost one battle but the waris just beginning.

[grahamhgreen]

40. I think it is highly partisan already, the Repubs introduced the legislation, the Dems blocked it.

The Repubs are never going to relent.

[greendog]

35. He's not a fighter. For him to change now wouldn't make any sense.

He's like a little cube of yellow jello sitting firm on a plate in the oval office....untill the Goldman-Sachs hotline rings....THEN he starts to wiggle a little.

He's not there for us and he never has been.

If THE PEOPLE want something THE PEOPLE are going to have to figure out how to get it themselves.

[jaxx]

37. That is pathetic.

How can Democrats talk like that.

[flamingdem]

39. I don't hear the Unions bitching about Obama, the Unions and Obama are together on this nt

[jaxx]

47. Exactly. The unions know he supports them.

Too bad others are trying to undermine them both.

[grahamhgreen]

119. How, by passing tax cuts for the rich instead of EFCA?

[stranger81]

89. How can we talk like that?

We're reasonably intelligent people who happen to read the news once in a while. That's how.

[Ikonoklast]

109. Democrats aren't.

Most here condemning Obama non-stop aren't even remotely Democrats.

They are professional leftist martyrs that despise actual Democrats.

[brentspeak]

59. Well, he did fight passionately for the bank bailouts

[tammywammy]

75. Bank bailouts were a federal issue, not a state one. n/t

[emulatorloo]

38. The last thing people in Wisconsin need is an Obama vs Scott Media Masturbation Fest

This focus is and should be the workers in Wisconsin and the Wisc Dems.

Obama needs to say supportive things about Workers rights, which he has. He needs to say them more often.

[grahamhgreen]

42. Do you think the current strategy will lead to our victory?

[PeaceNikki]

44. Are you in WI?

[Pirate Smile]

46. Some people want to treat this as another excuse to bash the President instead of focusing on

recalling the Republicans and winning the next election. It is so very productive.

[PeaceNikki]

48. Well, as a WI resident, *I* see this an an AMAZING proof that Democrats *do* have spine.

Our 14 Senators are 100% amazing and I have been reenergized in every way. This is not a federal issue or a POTUS issue. This is *not* lost and the rest of you who aren't "on board" (not you, PS) need to jump in or get the FUCK outta the way. The CHeddar Revolution: Revenge of the Curds will lead the way. Watch how it's done.

[Pirate Smile]

53. I'm glad that the 14 Dems NEVER gave in. They never came back which was what I was worried would

eventually happen just because this couldn't go on forever. Of course, I was hoping some sane Republicans would agree to a deal with the Dems so Walker couldn't get his bill passed but if that wasn't going to happen, at least the Democrats never gave in.

President Obama didn't have any power over the State of Wisconsin. The fact that people keep treating it as if he did seems insane. They insist on blaming someone other then Walker and the State Republicans OR some how aligning the President with them which is also ludicrous.

[PeaceNikki]

70. 1 (R) was sane, but we needed 3.

[LiberalEsto]

43. YES! nt

[Warpy]

49. I can understand his not going to WI at this point

but I'm finding it difficult to understand why he hasn't used the bully pulpit to expose the teabaggers in office for what they really are and what they're trying to do to this country at the direction of David Koch and his band of merry elves.

[EFerrari]

81. He could have done a lot to frame this in the media.

Had he wanted to.

[Pirate Smile]

83. We won the media/PR war. All the polling showed both in Wisconsin & in the US that people

agreed with the Democratic position. It didn't need to be reframed by the President.

The problem was that the Republicans won a large majority in 2010 and only 1 Republican in the State Senate was willing to buck the Governor.

[EFerrari]

85. This is happening in many states, not only in WI.

And yes, since the Republicans own the media, the President should have done more to help frame the issue.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

50. No

As others have pointed out, this is a state issue best left decided by the citizens and their elected representatives. Did any other former President weigh in a lot on state-specific issues (unless they were actually breaking federal law)? I don't seem to remember former Presidents becoming intricately involved in pending legislation in states but maybe I just don't remember. Some people's expectations of what President Obama (or any other POTUS) should and shouldn't get involved with are slightly unrealistic IMHO. People seem to be particularly outraged that President Obama didn't come out to Wisconsin and walk the picket line despite the fact that what he said (back in 2007?) was probably more rhetorical flourish and/or a statement of solidarity rather than an actual campaign promise (I can't believe Politifact actually listed this as a "broken promise"). From the look of it here, a lot of people apparently actually believe that it would be simple thing for him to have done while trying to also run the country as POTUS. I mean, I don't understand what all the rage is that's being directed at President Obama over something that a Republican Governor in Wisconsin and his fellow Republicans in the legislature did. Did President Obama encourage Walker and his Republicans to do what they did? Is HE doing/encouraging union-busting at the federal level? :shrug:

[whattheidonot]

52. new leadership.

This is bigger than Obama . Obama has his hand tied. he really does not favor a movement. he is in with the bankers. This has to be taken over by the people putting an end to the direction USA is going. Obama can be voted out. Obama has become part of the problem. That may be hard to take but that is the way it is. The chose now is clear.Who is going to run America?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. Well, he has a tight schedule. Meetings with business leaders and the chamber of commerce, etc.

[Maru Kitteh]

56. No.

[NoTimeToulouse]

57. I am reminded of the term 'Being late to one's funeral.'

Regardless of the vote to destroy the collective bargaining rights of Unions I believe that it is now too late for President Obama to do much. That is too bad since it would have been a golden opportunity for the Democratic party and the country to show what he was really willing to to for labor.

If he ever had any intention of going to WI now it is too late. He could have done some good if he even connected on the phone with the protesters, but I guess that he had other things to do like meetings with Jeb Bush.

IMHO 2012 may be just be funeral that Obama is late to, but he will arrive there nonetheless given his current position of inaction.

[kiranon]

58. No. n/t

[Angry Dragon]

60. I have to agree with the people that say he should keep out

of Wisconsin and other states.
He has made his position clear in the way he has let duncan destroy teacher unions around the country.
His words do not match his actions so there is nothing he can bring to the table.

[jillan]

61. I don't think he needs to go to WI but I do want him to speak out strongly.

[qazplm]

67. would have done what?

Absolutely nothing...but make this about him, which would have fundamentally changed the narrative in a negative way.

[BlueIris]

72. I think this presidency is a failure on many levels. WI is just the latest disaster.

Relax, Rationalizers, I wrote many levels not all levels.

Every day I get up, I expect to find out about another Obama related disappointment.

[krawhitham]

77. NOPE

He did get on TV and say it was bad

it is a state issue

Blame those that stayed home


Read my sig, been there since election day, it sums it all up

[Edweird]

78. It's a win. It's a win for the people and policies Obama suppports and believes in.

Just like Central Falls.

[damntexdem]

80. I'm not sure that it was his role to play. It's the peoples' movement.

But if it was a mistake, it is one from which he could recover by going now.

[stranger81]

87. While I agree we all should understand this is a failure,

you must be aware there's a sizeable contingent here that wouldn't agree that anything Obama did was less than perfect, no matter what the content or ramifications of those actions.

But yes, speaking only personally, I continue to be amazed as how this President never misses the opportunity to miss an opportunity.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[itsrobert]

90. The people have to do it. Obama didn't go to Egypt

He needs to stay out of this. This is people power, not President power. It's not over yet.

[dionysus]

91. nope. next?

[PeaceNikki]

93. For the third time - are you in Wisconsin? You don't seem to have a good grasp on the events here.

[L. Coyote]

95. F NO! And, he should mind his own business.

They wish he would go there, for political purposes, to defeat him in 2012.

Never forget who controls the media!!

[grahamhgreen]

100. Your being sarcastic, I hope!

[Marr]

97. No, because:

OMG swoon he's so dreamy look how he strides powerfully through the surf as he ponders his next multi-dimensional chess move. You don't doubt him do you, you doubter?

[Shiver]

98. As PeaceNikki has asked, are you in Wisconsin?

She and I are, and I echo everything she has said in this thread. The same things that I've seen other Wisconsin DUers say in other threads about this same thing.

This is the people's fight.

We've got it covered. Obama can leave his comfortable shoes in the closet, as far as I'm concerned.

[PeaceNikki]

112. Thanks, still no answer on that. My guess is no.

And, for the record, I was pissed off for the first 7 days or so about Obama's lack of involvement. My opinion on that changed after going there, being there, feeling the power of the people. It's remarkable. I was there last night and I'll be there this weekend.

[Ramulux]

99. Us electing Obama in the first place was the failure

[louslobbs]

101. Republicons play by their own rules, which means, there are no rules, laws or Constitution

they do what they want because nobody stops them or has the backbone to stop them except the masses, but we are being ignored by the one person who could and should speak on behalf of We the People. He knows his place however, at the table of the rich and powerful, the corporations. He's a smart man and knows what he's doing, too bad it's so destructive to so many without jobs, health care, food, housing, bargaining rights and a voice. The President is only human, unfortunately, he is showing just what kind of human being he really is. Actions speak louder than words, so I'll watch for his next move, and turn his ass off if he's on television making one of his prepared, eloquent, long winded, do nothing speeches. I will vote for him though if that is my only choice, nothing is worse than a Republicon President. I'd rather have a root canal, while having open heart surgery, while sitting in traffic on the 405 freeway during rush hour, with no pain medications.
Lou

[fittosurvive]

107. It would not have been good for him to be on the losing side of this.

It would have made him look weak.

[footinmouth]

108. I'm not in Wisconsin

But I think Obama is wise to keep a low profile on this one. Right now it's the Republicans vs the people of Wisconsin. Why make it the Republicans vs Obama?

I am so proud of the people of Wisconsin, fighting the good fight. It's your fight, not Obama's and I think you're going to win the war.

[PeaceNikki]

111. Yes. This.

[footinmouth]

114. One more point

to add to my previous post -

Adding Obama to the mix makes the issue a national one. I realize the outcome has national implications but the Wisconsin citizens are fighting their own fight right now. Don't forget, if you get Obama you'll also get the likes of Palin and Bachman coming in to rally their troops. The fine folks in Wisconsin don't deserve that.

I am so with you guys. I'm a retired union member from Buffalo, NY and part of me just wants to get in the car to join you. But you know what? I'm one of those people who get angry when out-of-staters get involved in issues that aren't their own. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think you're doing everything right. I've got your back here in Buffalo.

[PeaceNikki]

115. Thanks, footinmouth. Your support from afar and spreading the word

and most of all, understanding is hugely helpful. Most of the people protesting are local, but we get pockets of out-of-staters (like groups of nurses from San Fran :loveya:)

You're 100% correct, the deeper meaning has national implications, but this battle is ours and we're kicking ass and taking names. We do NOT want or need this to become about the national Dems. It's not as party-line as national news would have you believe. This is a CLASS war and the ELECTED Republicans are being assholes and losing a LOT of their own voters along the way.

[undeterred]

113. I'm beginning to think Obama is just, well, irrelevant.

[Codeine]

116. No, I will not agree with that.

Next question?

[sabrina 1]

117. I don't think it was a failure, unless you think he is on the side

the people.

He has demonstrated whose side he is on over and over again. Teachers, eg, he is definitely not on their side.

So, since his heart wouldn't be in it, and any speech he gave would be about how 'both sides have to compromize' etc. he would not be helpful to the people at all. We do NOT need another 'both sides are wrong' speech, or any speech that includes the words 'bi-partisanship' or 'compromise'. And that's what we would get from him, because when it is clear that the side he is NOT on is right, he 'compromises' by blaming both sides.

We need people who are actually on the side of the people to participate in what is now becoming a growing movement against the Corporate takeover of this country.

If you think this president would ever take a stand against Corporate America, I have to disagree with you.

[polmaven]

118. No - we cannot all agree on that

Not at all! He has done the absolutely correct thing by staying away from Wisconsin.

[Bluebear]

120. He was busy walking with Jeb Bush and praising him as an education reformer

How much do you want him to walk?

[opihimoimoi]

121. BULLSHIT...I DISAGREE,,,,,