START passes. Another success for Obama and the Democrats.

[Renew Deal]

Obama is a visionary who promised to change this country. He wanted to overhaul healthcare, end DADT, clean up loose nukes, stimulate the economy, invest in education and the environment, begin to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, fund the VA, overhaul the financial system and much more. And you know what? He has delivered. It hasn't been perfect, but his record of success is impressive.

This week START passed and DADT was repealed. Those are two more massive accomplishments which Obama deserves a ton of credit for.

[gateley]

1. AND the 9/11 responders! It's been a great day! nt

[yellowcanine]

2. Grumpy McCain must be apoplectic. Routed by Obama twice in one week.

[Renew Deal]

7. McCain has destroyed his reputation for no gain.

It's both sad and pathetic.

[karynnj]

24. McCain was more restained today than he has been in the past few weeks

He was far less angry - even having some compliments for Kerry's management of the START bill. (Quite a change for McCain) - but still absolutely disagreeing with the bill.

"AND, AGAIN, I CONGRATULATE SENATOR KERRY FOR THE VERY INCREDIBLE JOB HE HAS DONE AND, FRANKLY, HIS GREAT WILLINGNESS TO TALK WITH ME AND NEGOTIATE WITH ME AND HAVE DIALOGUE AND -- AND WORK TOWARDS A COMMON GOAL.
AND HE HAS DONE THAT IN GOOD FAITH AND I'M GRATEFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE GIVEN ME TO PLAY A ROLE INCLUDING AGREE TO THIS AMENDMENT WHICH I THINK WILL IMPROVE THE TREATY."

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=599311922

[laconicsax]

3. How is renewing a 20-year old treaty "visionary?"

:shrug:

[Renew Deal]

5. Because it goes far beyond that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfAcP4xOX2k

[laconicsax]

17. How is securing and reducing the number of nukes a "visionary" position?

The US position as never been 'let anyone who wants a nuke get their hands on one,' and reducing existing stockpiles is an old idea.

The treaty is a good thing, it just isn't visionary.

[Renew Deal]

19. The Nobel Committee disagrees

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2009/press.html

[CLANG]

21. Compared to Coburn and Kyle - he IS Visionary! Or maybe they're just blind.

[laconicsax]

27. Don't you think you're setting the bar kinda low?

I mean, compared to those two, Ray-gun and Poppy Bush were visionaries. After all, they proposed and signed the original START treaty respectively.

[walldude]

8. Shhhh.. it's happy day on DU don't ruin it.

Have to take what we can get. Half a bill is better than no bill. Can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Enjoy your pony.

[CJCRANE]

10. It's a new treaty hence the name "New START".

It isn't just a continuation of the status quo.

[laconicsax]

13. In terms of policy, it is.

The New START is a continuation of an existing policy to reduce and secure nuclear arms.

[Lost-in-FL]

11. In today's environment of obstructionism is a big accomplishment.

I see your point but it is something better of done now than after the start of the Circus in January.

[laconicsax]

12. I totally agree.

I just don't think that taking the position of 'we should continue a 20-year old policy' qualifies as "visionary."

[Renew Deal]

15. It's not just a renewal of an old policy

There's all kinds of new stuff in it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_START

Under terms of the treaty, the number of strategic nuclear missile launchers will be reduced by half. A new inspection and verification regime will be established, replacing the mechanism defined by the earlier treaty. Meanwhile, a number of operationally inactive stockpiled nuclear warheads will remain in the high thousands in both the Russian and United States inventories.<4>
Documents made available to the U.S. Senate described removal from service of at least 30 missile silos, 34 bombers and 56 submarine launch tubes, though missiles removed would not be destroyed and bombers could be converted to conventional use. While 4 of 24 launchers on each of the 14 submarines would be removed, none would be retired.<5>
If ratified, the treaty will limit the number of deployed strategic nuclear warheads to 1,550, which is down nearly two-thirds from the original START treaty, as well as 30% lower than the deployed strategic warhead limit of the 2002 Moscow Treaty. The total number of warheads retained, however, could exceed the 1,500 limit by a few hundred because the treaty assumes that bombers only carry one warhead regardless of their actual carrying capacity.<6> It will also limit the number of deployed and non-deployed inter-continental ballistic missile (ICBM) launchers, submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) launchers, and heavy bombers equipped for nuclear armaments to 800. Also, it will limit the number of deployed ICBMs, deployed SLBMs, and deployed heavy bombers equipped for nuclear armaments to 700.<7> The treaty allows for satellite and remote monitoring, as well as 18 on-site inspections per year to verify limits.<6>
These obligations must be met within seven years from the date the new treaty enters into force. The treaty will last ten years, with an option to renew it for up to five years upon agreement of both parties.<8> The treaty first has to pass United States Senate's advice and consent to ratification for the President to formally ratify and approval from the Federation Council of the Russian Federation. Once that is done, the treaty will enter into force on the date of the exchange of instruments of ratification.<9> However the United States appears to be implementing the reductions even before the treaty is ratified.<10>
The treaty places no limits on tactical systems, such as the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II, even though the F-35 may replace the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit in the manned nuclear armed penetration bomber role.<11>
The treaty does not cover rail-mobile ICBM launchers because neither side currently possess such systems. ICBMs on such launchers would be covered under the generic launcher limits, but the inspection details for such systems would have to be worked out between the parties if such systems were reintroduced in the future.<12>

[laconicsax]

18. I never said it was.

It is in line with long-existing policies.

[Lost-in-FL]

20. Sadly true. nt

[CLANG]

23. If we take "visionary" off the table, will you be happy?

[laconicsax]

29. It's the only objection I have.

People have been advocating against nuclear stockpiles for over half a century. To call him a "visionary" for taking that old position detracts from the efforts of everyone who came before him and glosses over the numerous treaties signed over the years that creep towards that goal.

[karynnj]

25. It is not renewing a treaty - it is the next step

[laconicsax]

31. It's a renewal and expansion. n/t

[apocalypsehow]

4. Kick, Rec. n/t.

[madmax]

6. Can we say

TRIFECTA :bounce:

START DADT First Responders HC Bill

:toast: to President Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi

[Scurrilous]

9. K & R

:thumbsup:

[RandySF]

14. But but

- 75% of the public was not AGAINST DADT repeal and START.
- He didn't do it by fiat. Where's the Executive Order and who cares if they required Congressional action?

[Graybeard]

16. A lot of people were turned off seeing the sausage being made.

No doubt HCR was ugly. DADT, 9/11 responders, START were exasperating. But these are big victories for the Democrats and President Obama. Big.

[Johonny]

22. Now keep them their til they let and up or down on the Dream act!

[damntexdem]

26. Good for the US and good for the world.

[deacon]

28. Kick. n/t

[closeupready]

30. Very good. I'm liking this general trend of successes.

:rofl: :)

[Number23]

32. Kicking and recing too

[Elmore Furth]

33. Me too!

[Renew Deal]

34. kick

:kick:

I couldn't resist. :D