Teachers: ObamaFail for picking Jeb Bush as his education buddy

[Bluebear]

Teachers from all over Miami-Dade County want to give Jeb Bush a time out.

So they'll be at Miami Central High Friday afternoon, when the ex-governor will join President Obama for a visit to the school.

The protest, organized by the United Teachers of Dade, focuses on what they are calling Bush's "anti-public education agenda" that includes, UTD says, $3.3. billion in cuts from public education in Florida, the elimination of programs like art and music, and a system that forces larger class sizes, among other issues.

Central High School was chosen because, after receiving almost $800,000 in funding, which they used to bring in new staff and add after school programs, climbed from an F school to a C school.

However, teachers aren't fond of Obama's buddy choice for the visit, and so will be at Northwest 17th Avenue and 95th Street Friday afternoon to let him know.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Teachers-to-Protest-Jeb-Appearance-at-Central-High-117407428.html

[ClarkUSA]

1. Jeb's 2016 primary opponents now have footage of him hugging Obama for their attack ads.

Dare I say, "Checkmate!" After all, Charlie Crist can attest to the efficacy of that kind of attack ad on the GOP teabagger base during a primary campaign.

Ditto for President Obama's knee-capping Mitt Romney's 2012 chances with praise for RomneyCare at this weeks National Governor's WH conference.

[GeorgiaPeach]

16. Because it's all about politics, not about the fate of the students.

[JuniperLea]

17. Fertilizer...

Jeb isn't interested in students, and this will lessen his influence.

Big picture is always a healthier view.

[ClarkUSA]

20. Wrong. Pres. Obama is capable of doing 2 things at once. Just ask Zakiya Willies -->

“What you guys are doing here is sending a message across the country that you can do anything you set out to accomplish,’’ the president told the screaming high schoolers.

The president picked Central as a model for failing schools to look up to, and flew down to Miami on a typically sunny March afternoon to deliver his message on how schools nationwide should be improved: Just follow the Central model.

Among the students who were selected to greet the president: teens who had made the honor roll, those with perfect attendance, and the school’s state championship winning football team.

“This gives me so much hope,’’ said 17-year-old Zakiya Willies. “It inspires me to always do my best.’’

Guests also included Miami-Dade School Board members, state Education Commissioner Eric Smith, state Board of Education member Roberto Martinez and U.S. Representatives Frederica Wilson and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz."

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/04/2097794/obama-due-to-arrive-for-field.html#ixzz1FfVzo1Bo

[Rex]

137. Wow, how did you know?

It is always about the money, never the kids.

[treestar]

147. Obviously, Obama does not think that a short time with Jeb

is going to harm any student.

[PufPuf23]

97. The mirror image works just as well. Checkmate!

POTUS Obama's education (and healthcare) policies are GOP in origin, against the common welfare of the People, and designed to fail; POTUS Obama is either overhis head, compromised, or complicit in what has occurred in education, healthcare and the financial sector too.

I would still vote for Obama in 2012 as the least of poor candidates. Oh boy!!! I am enthused.

[ClarkUSA]

101. How so?

Back up your rhetoric with some facts, not that I haven't heard it all before and debunked it ad nauseum.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClarkUSA]

105. Prove what? You're the one making a long string of claims.

[montanacowboy]

2. Good for Them

It's a disgrace for Obama to be seen with this scum of the earth, a public education destroyer along with his prick brother Neil.

This President does not represent good public education. Shame on him but he has always shown deference to the Bush's.

[Bluebear]

4. A PR stunt for the Bush "Ignite!" software company.

Jeb has no other interest in education.

[ClarkUSA]

5. So you think a Dem President should never appear publicly with Republicans at a topic forum?

Gotcha. If a GOP president did that, I'd call that ridiculous and bigoted.

BTW, appearing with Jeb Bush once in two years does not "deference" make. After all, they were in FL, where Jeb was the former governor.

<< This President does not represent good public education. >>

How so? What is "good public education" to you? How is President Obama affecting "good public education" adversely? Facts, please. Preferably with unbiased credible named sources.

[defendandprotect]

31. Why should Obama be supporting any part of this program = destruction of public education --!!

[YvonneCa]

63. The timing stinks. With teachers fighting to stay...

...at the table in WI, President Obama had a choice about how to act. He could have gone to Wisconsin to support them, but instead, he went to an event with Jeb Bush...representing to other side in the education reform debate. It's another slap in the face...whether it was intentional or not.

[EFerrari]

141. The timing can't be unintentional.

He does this kind of thing over and over again. That's one problem but it's just part of Obama's M.O.

The larger problem that I see is that the Democrats behave as if the Republicans own Florida. It is true that BushCo does control Florida in some profound ways. But, is that never to be challenged? There's a great deal of unrest right now. You'd think the national Dems would find a way to leverage that.

[treestar]

148. Apparently agreeing with a Bush on the slightest part of an issue

Makes a person entirely Republican!

It's all about people not policies! :sarcasm:

[upi402]

3. "We've eliminated over 200 Federal Programs"

Oh yay! Kick me in the nuts next!:bounce:

:cheers:

[Bluebear]

6. Yay!

:crazy:

Unreal, upi, eh? :(

[ClarkUSA]

7. Where are you quoting that from? Which programs are you mourning in particular and why?

I read the OP article and did not see any such quote.

[upi402]

22. Obama said it - on TV - on tape

Jeb must bring it out?

He was not specific, just seemed to be revelling in cutting fed programs.

[ClarkUSA]

26. How conveniently vague. Let me know when you have any credible facts, okay?

:eyes:

[upi402]

103. do your own research

looks like you need to catch up, or pull your head out

[ClarkUSA]

107. Research an alleged quote that isn't even in the OP? That you can't even recall exactly?

Looks like you are unable to back up anything you're saying with any facts.

How unsurprising.

[sabrina 1]

128. Here you go!

Obama unveils $3.73 trillion budget for 2012

The budget proposes program terminations or spending reductions for more than 200 programs at an estimated savings of $33 billion in 2012. Programs targeted for large cuts included Community Development Block Grants, trimmed by $300 million. A program that helps pay heating bills for low-income families would be cut in half for a savings of $2.5 billion. Another program supporting environmental restoration of the Great Lakes would be reduced by one-fourth for $125 million in savings.

If only he had ended the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthy, instead of making working people and the most vulnerable members of society, pay for the gambling debts of the Wall St. criminals who are responsible for the problems in the first place. And if only SOMEONE, like the DOJ would start investigating the crooks on Wall St. and start retrieving some of the missing money. Like the 15% of the wealth of this country that they managed to disappear.

No worker should accept a single cut since they did not cause the problem.

Obama reminded Bush that he was cutting over 200 programs, because even though he let their buddies off the hook for taxes, and cut over 200 programs they are STILL not satisfied, and he keeps trying to get their approval for some reason.

[Dragonfli]

49. You didn't listen to the speech did you?

[ClarkUSA]

61. You asked me the same question on another OP thread and I answered you already.

Why are you asking me again?

[ixion]

8. Jeb Bush is a criminal thug, and it's a disgrace for Obama to bring the BFEE back into the fold

albeit they arguably never left, and this would be evidence for that.

[ClarkUSA]

9. How is Pres. Obama doing that? Why don't we wait to hear what he has to say first?

[ixion]

12. Uh, Jeb Bush is the heir to the throne of the BFEE

so I think it's pretty obvious how.

[ClarkUSA]

14. So what? It's a throne built on a crumbling foundation.

Who's afraid of them? The Bush name is poison to everyone but conservative Republicans these days.

[ixion]

21. There's nothing crumbling about the BFEE

just because they're not involved being the 'front men' in politics (which is arguable) doesn't mean they've lost power.

And indeed the Bush name IS poison in some circles in politics, though not all. In any case, though, why would Obama introduce such a name into his mix?

[ClarkUSA]

25. This is why. If teachers want more money, they'd better get behind Pres. Obama instead of sniping.

President Obama and Jeb Bush, the Republican former governor of Florida, joined in an awkward partnership on Friday, when Mr. Obama visited a high school here to push his plans to boost education funding... The Obama-Bush appearance was designed to underscore what Mr. Obama hopes will be a bipartisan effort on Capitol Hill to renew the education bill at a time when he is unlikely to get Republican cooperation on many other domestic initiatives... as Congress grapples with ways to cut the federal budget, Mr. Obama is also proposing to increase education spending by 11 percent – a proposal that is likely to run into significant opposition from Republicans.

“If we want more good news on the jobs front then we’ve got to make more investments in education,’’ Mr. Obama told students in a crowded gymnasium. He went on, “I want everybody to understand: Our job is not just to cut. Even as we find ways to cut spending what we can’t do is cut back on investments like education.’’

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/obama-and-jeb-bush-visit-a-miami-school

[defendandprotect]

33. More money? Obama/Duncan are destroying public education, their jobs and unions!!

Here's what DLC actually meant -- Koch Bros!!

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

[ClarkUSA]

43. Yes, Pres. Obama is pushing for an 11% increase in education spending today.

He's going against a strong head wind in the Teabagger House.

[defendandprotect]

92. Obama is also going strong against Dem Party ideals -- and we don't know where the $$ is going ...!!

[ixion]

36. LOL

Okay, get on with your bad self. :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

32. You think Jeb Bush has something creditable to say?

Bush/Duncan have already been very busy knocking over teachers, unions and

public education for benefit of elites!

[ClarkUSA]

44. Jeb apparently was Obama's prop for the latter's push for an 11% increase in education spending.

As you know, the Teabagger House is anything but agreeable to this idea.

President Obama and Jeb Bush, the Republican former governor of Florida, joined in an awkward partnership on Friday, when Mr. Obama visited a high school here to push his plans to boost education funding... The Obama-Bush appearance was designed to underscore what Mr. Obama hopes will be a bipartisan effort on Capitol Hill to renew the education bill at a time when he is unlikely to get Republican cooperation on many other domestic initiatives... as Congress grapples with ways to cut the federal budget, Mr. Obama is also proposing to increase education spending by 11 percent – a proposal that is likely to run into significant opposition from Republicans.

“If we want more good news on the jobs front then we’ve got to make more investments in education,’’ Mr. Obama told students in a crowded gymnasium. He went on, “I want everybody to understand: Our job is not just to cut. Even as we find ways to cut spending what we can’t do is cut back on investments like education.’’

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/obama-and-jeb-bush-visit-a-miami-school

[defendandprotect]

69. Where is the money going? We know teachers are going, public education is going --

and unions are going --

for all we know, the $$ could be going to Charter schools -- or even the CIA.

Which, btw, has happened before!

[ClarkUSA]

99. You think it might be going to "even the CIA"?

Really?

[BeFree]

11. Obama should be seen in public with a bush

On the courthouse steps as bush is frogmarched in with Obama singing: Yes we can!

[Bluebear]

138. +

[ClarkUSA]

10. President Obama is speaking now. MSNBC showing it.

See thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x622815

[Scurrilous]

13. Obama to Central High students: "What you are doing here is sending a message"

<snip>

"President Obama got a rock-star greeting when he walked into the Miami Central High library Friday afternoon.

“What you guys are doing here is sending a message across the country that you can do anything you set out to accomplish,’’ the president told the screaming high schoolers.

The president picked Central as a model for failing schools to look up to, and flew down to Miami on a typically sunny March afternoon to deliver his message on how schools nationwide should be improved: Just follow the Central model.

Among the students who were selected to greet the president: teens who had made the honor roll, those with perfect attendance, and the school’s state championship winning football team.

“This gives me so much hope,’’ said 17-year-old Zakiya Willies. “It inspires me to always do my best.’’

Guests also included Miami-Dade School Board members, state Education Commissioner Eric Smith, state Board of Education member Roberto Martinez and U.S. Representatives Frederica Wilson and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz."

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/04/2097794/obama-due-to-arrive-for-field.html#ixzz1FfVzo1Bo

[dionysus]

19. but i read here every day, that he is a reviled and hated man!

[LoZoccolo]

28. They must have filled the school with paid teenage corporatists plants.

It is all part of the Kabuki theater of the two-party duopoly. When you hear these students speak, it is not the people speaking.

NOTE: This post is sarcastic.

[walldude]

37. You were there? n/t

[LoZoccolo]

38. Did I need to be?

The collusion is obvious for those who are paying attention.

This post is sarcastic.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

82. I see what you did there

after you explained it.

[treestar]

149. This is the first post I've seen mentioning the other guests!

Yet the President gets no credit for any of them!

[gateley]

15. If it brings nationwide attention to the problems our schools are facing, and if

the Republicans will give credence to what I'm guessing Bush will say, then it's worth it for the big picture and the potential help education might get. I'm guessing Obama isn't thrilled, either, but figures it's a good move to further his education agenda, otherwise why would be be doing it? :shrug:

[callous taoboy]

23. No, you are incorrect.

Obama furthering his education agenda is a hideous idea. I am a teacher and Obama will not receive any money from me during the next election cycle.

[gateley]

76. But you don't speak for every teacher in the country, plus those who aren't teachers

whose votes are needed.

When your students merely express an opinion that differs from yours, do you tell them they're "incorrect"?

[callous taoboy]

121. And you teach where?

[sabrina 1]

133. I am a teacher and I know that the Obama administration's

continuation of the disastrous Bush NCLB will cripple, as it has for ten years, the educational system in this country for yet another generation.

Any educator knows how horrific a system Bush's 'educational' system was. We had hoped that when we elected a Democrat that would change. Instead, it has gotten worse, not only did he NOT throw out one of the worst educational systems ever, and I could write a book on why, he ENHANCED it.

No wonder Jeb and the rest of the Bush education profiteers are so happy. The people who benefited from NCLB were the Educational publishers of test material who have made a fortune. All friends of the Bush family. It was a business program, NOT by any stretch of the imagination, an education program.

This system was conjured up by BUSINESSMEN and not a single educator. It is a disgrace and nearly every good teacher I know is no longer teaching as a result, including me. I would not inflict that abomination on any child, it would be unconscienable.

And people wonder why American students are so far behind the rest of the world. Why they can only 'follow directions' but cannot think. They will make great Fox News veiwers later on. And that is the purpose of it. Train them to take tests, to follow instructions, but do not let them think if possible.

Anyone who knows anything about education knows what a failure NCLB is and will continue to be.

I can well understand why Obama's children are going to a REAL educational institution. There is no way he, as a responsible parent, would subject his children to NCLB, nor would any parent if they had a choice.

I am so glad I am not teaching in this country today. I feel very sorry for the teachers still struggling to work with a system that was never meant to 'educate'.

[Starry Messenger]

24. His education agenda isn't helping education.

It is hurting it. RTTT specifically.

[gateley]

79. At least he's getting a Rupublican on board to even bring attention to the issue -

would you rather we just keep on pretending like we're the leader in education which we've been lying about for years?

I'm frankly getting a bit tired of stuff that Obama proposes that have the potential to do so much good, BUT.... I don't understand why he just doesn't do the (whatever the issue is) right!

[Starry Messenger]

87. In this case the Republicans got the President on board to their agenda.

I'm not being mean or snarky, I'm serious as a heart attack. Honestly, it would take a severe change in our social climate to do what needs to be done to help students at-risk, which would involve going after one of the big problems--poverty. And we may not be the leader in education, but we are not in the massive crisis that the guys in charge would have you believe either. If education was properly funded the way other countries fund their education, we would be the light of nations. Instead we get the crumbs and are told to excel with less and less every year. For a teacher this is truly heartbreaking.

[callous taoboy]

122. What Starry said.

[defendandprotect]

34. The "big picture" is Obama/Duncan destroying public education, teachers, unions for benefit of elite

We need nationwide attention on right wing destruction of public education --

by the Gates' and BFEE network -- and rest of rw elites --

Once again, Obama is moving in the wrong direction --

[gateley]

81. I had hopes that he, of all people, would understand what is really needed and

pursue those goals.

Why do you think he's blowing this? I'm not saying he isn't, but why would he do something like that?

[Bluebear]

131. +

[YvonneCa]

65. Exactly...to further his (and Jebbie's) education...

...agenda. That agenda locks teachers out of the process. JHMO.

[gateley]

85. No, you're probably right - I'm seeing from the responses to my post that this

isn't a 'good thing' as I ASSUMED it was. I honestly haven't been paying that much attention because I truly felt he was aware of the problems our system is facing, and that he would WANT to 'fix' it. Shit - another disappointment. :(

[YvonneCa]

102. I still give him credit for his education GOALS and for...

...wanting to make education work better(which many people do not). But he keeps choosing actions that hurt his efforts, IMO. Why? I think it's because he is not inclusive enough in who he listens to on education reform.

[gateley]

106. Not only in this arena, but in others, he seems to just rely on a handful of

advisors. When he escalated into Afghanistan, I think he would have done it sooner had Biden not advised him against it. He ended up going with the Military's recommendation, but I don't think if anyone other than Biden would have argued against it, he wouldn't have sought opinions from elsewhere. I don't know how tuned in Biden is into what's happening with this education plan, nor if he 'gets it', even though his wife is a teacher.

This is disturbing. I'm glad I opened my big mouth and gave my opinion because now I'm learning from you guys more about this issue. :hi:

[YvonneCa]

108. That's one of my favorite things about...

...DU. I learn from everyone here. :hi:

[callous taoboy]

124. Well, and I'm sorry for being a bit short with you up thread

and am glad you are seeing it. We teachers have seen it for so long and can't tolerate it much longer; hence my being pretty short with those that seem blind to what we teachers are calling a major disappointment with Obama.

[gateley]

135. Well I apologize for not being better informed. As I said, I assumed that Obama

would be doing the RIGHT thing for teachers and education. Although I'm frequently disappointed by his courses of action, when it comes to bettering our education system, I'm honestly stunned to learn what you've all been saying.

Again, I haven't paid close attention, feeling that at last our situation was in "good hands" and that we would be taking the needed steps.

I'm very sorry for you teachers, for our children, and for our country. :(

[Bluebear]

118. 'I'm guessing Obama isn't thrilled, either' - :/

[Starry Messenger]

18. k&r

[ClarkUSA]

27. Do "Teachers" get it? Pres. Obama is there to drum up support for an 11% increase in education funds

President Obama and Jeb Bush, the Republican former governor of Florida, joined in an awkward partnership on Friday, when Mr. Obama visited a high school here to push his plans to boost education funding... The Obama-Bush appearance was designed to underscore what Mr. Obama hopes will be a bipartisan effort on Capitol Hill to renew the education bill at a time when he is unlikely to get Republican cooperation on many other domestic initiatives... as Congress grapples with ways to cut the federal budget, Mr. Obama is also proposing to increase education spending by 11 percent – a proposal that is likely to run into significant opposition from Republicans.

“If we want more good news on the jobs front then we’ve got to make more investments in education,’’ Mr. Obama told students in a crowded gymnasium. He went on, “I want everybody to understand: Our job is not just to cut. Even as we find ways to cut spending what we can’t do is cut back on investments like education.’’

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/obama-and-jeb-bush-visit-a-miami-school

Keep it up, "Teachers"! If you keep demonizing Pres. Obaam, you will deserve what Republicans want to give you (no increase, big cuts) in the budget battle brewing in DC right now between the House and the WH.

[LoZoccolo]

30. Yeah, but seeing him stand next to Jeb Bush makes me feel bad.

What am I going to do about how I feel bad?

NOTE: This post is sarcastic.

[JuniperLea]

39. Feel with your hands...

Think with your head.

:D

[ClarkUSA]

45. ROFL!!

:rofl:

[defendandprotect]

35. When our education funds are being moved into Charter schools by Obama/Duncan...

and they at the same time are attacking public education, teachers and unions --

then we need to look at overall direction Obama has been moving in -- and that's been

to the right.



Here's something else we should be aware of --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

[ClarkUSA]

46. Charter schools are public schools, so how is that an attack on public education?

Besides all that, I would think all teachers would welcome an 11% increase in federal education funding, giving the horrendous state cuts that are happening across the nation, thanks to Republican governors.

[kwassa]

54. It is an attack because it reduces funds to true public schools.

Charters do worse than regular public schools at educating children. As a group, they score lower than surrounding public schools.

Why fund them?

[ClarkUSA]

59. Really? Aren't all charter schools by definition public schools?

Do you have any proof for your claims?

I am sure there are charter schools that are very good and ones that aren't. Same as with any public education system institution. I'm all for supporting any form of public education that succeeds in turning out good students.

[defendandprotect]

71. No -- and the access to the public teat is what drains public education ....

while they are not subject to the same rules/regualtions public schools are.

Nor are they building with taxpayer $ -- any private person can apply for a

license for a Charter school.

[defendandprotect]

72. No -- but the access they're given to the public teat is what drains $ from public education.....

while they are not subject to the same rules/regualtions public schools are.

Nor are they building with taxpayer $ -- any private person can apply for a

license for a Charter school.

[rhett o rick]

150. Please get your definitions consistant. Are charter schools part of public education or not?

In your subject to lump them together, but in your last paragraph you separate them for comparison purposes, as others have here. Have it either way but decide.

When charter schools get to pick and choose who attends, it is easy to produce good students. Bad students get returned to the "public education system" or what ever you want to call it.

[defendandprotect]

56. Charter schools are NOT public schools --

They are not built with public funds - -

and they are not subject to the same rules/regulations as public schools --

And they are part of the GOP right wing agenda --

Any PRIVATE group can get approval for a charter to run their own schools --

Charter schools exist at the expense of our public schools --

We've seen these "charter schools" repeatedly fail yet their charters are not pulled --

[ClarkUSA]

64. According to Wikipedia and the National Education Association, they are public schools.

Wikipedia (with numbered footnotes)

Charter schools in the United States are primary or secondary schools that receive public money (and like other schools, may also receive private donations) but are not subject to some of the rules, regulations, and statutes that apply to other public schools in exchange for some type of accountability for producing certain results, which are set forth in each school's charter.<1> Charter schools are opened and attended by choice.<2> While charter schools provide an alternative to other public schools, they are part of the public education system and are not allowed to charge tuition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school

National Education Association:

Charter schools are publicly funded elementary or secondary schools that have been freed from some of the rules, regulations, and statutes that apply to other public schools, in exchange for some type of accountability for producing certain results, which are set forth in each charter school's charter.

NEA believes that charter schools and other nontraditional public school options have the potential to facilitate education reforms and develop new and creative teaching methods that can be replicated in traditional public schools for the benefit of all children.

http://www.nea.org/home/16332.htm

You're entitled to your opinion, but it does not seem to corroborate with what is considered factual. Anyway, I'm all for the 11% increase in education funding that Pres. Obama is pushing for and am not interested in getting into the weeds with you.

[defendandprotect]

73. They drain $ from public schools and are not subject to same rules and regs ....

any PRIVATE person can start a charter school --

This is like the see-saw we're on with Fannie/Freddie Mae and other capitalist

disasters which drain our Treasury while funding elites.

Gates, of course has to be mentioned in this scheme --

[kwassa]

83. My opinion is fact-based, read the Stanford study on charters

only 17 % do better than surrounding public schools.

You'd better not get in the weeds with me; you would have to learn something about charters.

[ClarkUSA]

100. Link? BTW, your claim doesn't change the fact that charter schools are public schools.

As I have already documented. No weeds here.

[kwassa]

112. Here is the link on the poor performance of charter schools

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/on-education/2009/06/17/charter-schools-might-not-be-better

On average, charter schools are not performing as well as their traditional public-school peers, according to a new study that is being called the first national assessment of these school-choice options. The study, conducted by the Center for Research on Education Outcomes at Stanford University, compared the reading and math state achievement test scores of students in charter schools in 15 states and the District of Columbia—amounting to 70 percent of U.S. charter school students—to those of their virtual "twins" in regular schools who shared with them certain characteristics. The research found that 37 percent of charter schools posted math gains that were significantly below what students would have seen if they had enrolled in local traditional public schools. And 46 percent of charter schools posted math gains that were statistically indistinguishable from the average growth among their traditional public-school companions. That means that only 17 percent of charter schools have growth in math scores that exceeds that of their traditional public-school equivalents by a significant amount.

In reading, charter students on average realized a growth that was less than their public-school counterparts but was not as statistically significant as differences in math achievement, researchers said.

"We are worried by these results," Margaret Raymond, director of CREDO and lead author of the report, Multiple Choice: Charter School Performance in 16 States, said at a news conference. "This study shows that we've got a 2-to-1 margin of bad charters to good charters."

[ClarkUSA]

116. Thank you. Did they study all charter schools in the US or did they have representative samplings?

It's okay if you don't know. I'm just curious as to their methodology.

[kwassa]

117. The number is included in what I quoted.

[kwassa]

115. Charter schools recieve public funds; that does not make them public schools

They are really private educational contractors, as this writer points out.

http://gothamschools.org/2010/03/26/are-charter-school-public-schools-i%E2%80%99m-afraid-not/

The primary argument that charter schools are public schools is that they are paid for out of government funds. While they do get most of their budgets from tax dollars, that is not enough to render them public schools. There are many other organizations that pay for operations with public funds but are still private organizations. Defense contractors receive enormous sums of money from the government to provide design and manufacturing of weapons systems, but they remain private corporations. Blackwater provided labor, training and services to the Department of Defense and the State Department, but it remained a private organization.

If a construction firm is hired by a school district to build a school, it remains a private firm. If a new firm is formed to bid for a school construction job, and wins the project, it still remains a private firm. Even if that firm does such a good job that it wins future bids and does all the district’s construction work, it remains a private firm.

Frankly, I’ve not heard any other arguments that charter schools are public schools. Meanwhile, there are lots of ways in which they most definitely are not public schools

.................

Charter school principals cannot be removed by elected officials. Their board members are not subject to removal by public elections. The executives of charter management organizations are not accountable to the government for their jobs.

More important, however, is the difference in moral mission. It is the responsibility of the public schools to educate every child who shows up. All children who live in a school district have a right to attend a district school. Furthermore, no public school can in good conscience “counsel out” a student. Private schools are well known to engage the practice of “counseling out” when a student does not seem to fit in or is too disruptive or the school believes that it cannot well meet that student’s needs. As the student has the public schools to fall back on, the moral import of this practice is surely debatable. But the public schools must find another placement for students whose needs they cannot meet, because they – in the form of the district – have a moral and a legal obligation to educate every child that shows up.

Charter schools do not have that obligation, either legally or morally. To the extent that many charter schools are oversubscribed, it would be difficult or impossible for them to do so. While the public schools have to cram in more students – hopefully, eventually, leading to more classrooms and even schools – charter schools only have to serve as many students as they specify. Charter schools are free to say that they do not offer support services for English language learners or autistic children, but the public schools must provide schooling for every child. Charter schools are free to “counsel out” students.

Charter school employees do not work for the government; they are not public employees. While the government has contracted with charter schools to provide a service, they do not act as the government when the provide it. Their operations are not subject to democratic or public oversight; rather their contracts (i.e. their charters) come up for review for possible extension periodically.

[defendandprotect]

57. Charter schools are NOT public schools --

They are not built with public funds - -

and they are not subject to the same rules/regulations as public schools --

And they are part of the GOP right wing agenda --

Any PRIVATE group can get approval for a charter to run their own schools --

Charter schools exist at the expense of our public schools --

We've seen these "charter schools" repeatedly fail yet their charters are not pulled --

[walldude]

41. Yeah teachers get it... Do you?

It find it hilarious that you think that all these teachers just hate Obama. I mean, they have no idea what is in their budget, what it took for them to get through the year, how much they had to pay out of their own pockets for supplies, how much is wasted on administration, and how much of that 11% IF IT GETS PASSED, will actually trickle down to them or their classrooms.

I'm sure with all your years of being a teacher you know better then them. I'm sure your press release better reflects reality then the words of the teachers who live with this every day. They are just freeloading overpaid teachers after all...

[ClarkUSA]

48. So you feel Pres. Obama is wasting his time pushing for an 11% increase in education funding?

I feel it's shortsighted to be infighting when the budget battle with the Teabagger House is happening right now.

[walldude]

53. Way to not answer the question.. But since you asked..

You feel it's shortsighted to be infighting? That doesn't seem to be stopping you. Or do you just expect me to roll over because you say I should? Because you who obviously have no idea the trouble the school system is in are trying to tell me that an 11% increase is going to save the schools and teachers?


About that 11%. How much of it is going to the classroom? How much is for Charter Schools? How much for teachers salaries? How much for school supplies?

Have you been near a public school recently? Do you have any idea how much teachers and parents shell out for supplies? Do you have any idea how many art and music and sport programs have been phased out due to a lack of budget? Do you have any clue at all the depth of trouble our school system is in?

Sticking your finger in the hole is not going to keep the dike from breaking.

[ClarkUSA]

55. Way not to answer the question. Funny, you would think any Democrat would be for it.

I'm not interested in infighting. I'll stick to the facts as I have quoted them.

[walldude]

58. Right. The facts as you know them from the perspective

of someone who has no experience with what he's talking about. Good luck with those "facts".


Someday, not today mind you, but someday in the future, you might want to at least attempt to realize that stating a single fact while ignoring all the others does not make you right.

Have a nice day.

[ClarkUSA]

60. Facts from The New York Times trump any anonymous blogger's unsubstantiated opinions, yes.

And here's a fact: I support an 11% increase in federal education funding.

[walldude]

62. I see so the NYT knows more than the parents and teachers.

Yes I am an anonymous blogger. I also have 3 kids in public school, and my mom, and my sister are both teachers.

Yeah I know nothing about teachers or the school system.


Good luck with your "facts".

Oh and I support a 30% increase in school funding and that is after we bring the schools back to where they were 20 years ago. But hey I digress, you and the NYT have me over a barrel with your big fix... :rofl:

Have a nice day.

[ClarkUSA]

67. Actually, their coverage described Pres. Obama's push for an 11% increase in education funding.

So you're wrong. I tire of your strawman fallacies. It's clear you have nothing of value to offer.

[walldude]

68. LMAO....

You have your 11% and you are sticking with it. I admire your tenacity.

When you get THE REST OF THE FACTS let me know I'd be happy to talk about it.

[ClarkUSA]

75. When you have any facts to back up your rhetoric, let me know.

But as you seem to enjoy infighting more than discussing President Obama's admirable goal of increasing education funding by 11%, I will leave you to your own devices.

[walldude]

86. Ooh you got me with that one...

Yeah talk shit to me about "infighting" while you and LoZo are in here making fun of anyone who disagrees with you. Matter of fact Obama supporters have been having lots of fun the last two days. I'm surprised you haven't broken out the old "pony" meme again...

Debating and trying to give a person a perspective that they don't normally see is not infighting. And adjusting your position because you learned something new does not make you look stupid it makes you look smart. But hey you have your 11% and you are sticking with it. Good luck. If I can't get my 30% and my schools fixed I'll take the lousy 11% but I'm not going to sit here and praise you and Obama for putting a band-aid on an amputation.

[ClarkUSA]

91. Yawn.

:boring:

[Bluebear]

134. I am only imagining who "ignored" is

[Rex]

136. Someone who never criticizes Obama on any policy, ever.

And then INSISTS everyone else be 'fair and balanced' toward the POTUS. Even while REAL TEACHERS tell him/them they are WRONG. I know, take your pick, that didn't help much. :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

77. Like Obama's stimulus program, most of it landed in pockets of elites/business ....

who knows where this $$ is going?

[ClarkUSA]

84. Prove your claims. I'm not into fact-free demonizing rhetoric.

[defendandprotect]

89. Maybe you want to take the "demon" Rahm Emmanuel's word for it ... ???? HERE ...

Thurs 8/12/10

Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!


”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care

preserved the private delivery system;

-- the fact that

billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts,

and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...









Rightwing Koch Bros funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

[ClarkUSA]

93. The stimulus plan benefitted everyone, including food stamp programs across the nation.

And where is the data that proves your claim that most of the stimulus plan "landed in the pockets of the elites/business"?

[defendandprotect]

111. You're in denial of what even Rahm said? The stimulus was only 25% of what

economists called for -- and Obama settled for even less than that.

Stimulus provided HUGE benefits for PRIVATE INTERESTS --

and has now evaporated.

Obviously, you want to ignore reality --

and think you're sufficiently on record to make clear where you stand.

And, it's pretty much all I can stand of you --

You're on ignore!

bye --

[ClarkUSA]

123. The Politico hearsay didn't prove your claim. And Congress had something to do with that "25%".

You're long on rhetoric and absolutely non-existent on verifying facts. Thus, I am greatly relieved you have put me on ignore.

[YvonneCa]

66. The tactics are not helpful, IMO. n/t

[defendandprotect]

74. Obama is working for the interests of corporate elites -- and where is this $$ actually going?

[ClarkUSA]

88. LOL! I had no idea that wanting to increase education funding was an aim of "corporate elites"!!

Yeah, and that's why no one in the Teabagger House is behind this idea of President Obama's.

:sarcasm:

[defendandprotect]

90. Check in with Jeb Bush, Neal Bush, BFEE -- and Bill Gates ...

You might also try Madfloridian's Journal -- !!!

[ClarkUSA]

95. Uh huh. Sorry, I'm not interested in conspiracy theories.

:boring:

[defendandprotect]

109. Jeb Bush and Neal Bush's involvement with making $$ from LNCB is "conspiracy theory"?????

Try C.O.W. -- "Curriculum on Wheels" which is a Neal program --

and which is required when a school needs to recover from poor

performance -- usually poor schools -- and they need to PAY for the program!!

[ClarkUSA]

120. Unless you have facts to prove that the proposed 11% increase has anything to do w/your claims, yes.

[callous taoboy]

125. And you trust Jeb Bush?

:rofl:

...and that line "you will deserve what Republicans want to give you..." Oh sweet jesus how I think I don't like you much but you make me laugh....:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Bluebear]

130. "Ignored' said that?

:rofl:

[defendandprotect]

29. Hanging out with the BFEE -- !!

:nuke:

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

42. Grroming & Legitimizing his....

..Anti-LABOR, Free Trading, Pro-WAR, Tax Cuts for the RICH creates jobs, Unitary Executive, Chamber of Commerce replacement.
Nobody can say that these guys don't plan ahead.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[ClarkUSA]

50. No, he's using Jeb as a prop to push for an 11% increase in education funding from Congress.

Facts are so much better than overwrought baseless rhetoric. I'm sure Paul Wellstone would agree.

President Obama and Jeb Bush, the Republican former governor of Florida, joined in an awkward partnership on Friday, when Mr. Obama visited a high school here to push his plans to boost education funding... The Obama-Bush appearance was designed to underscore what Mr. Obama hopes will be a bipartisan effort on Capitol Hill to renew the education bill at a time when he is unlikely to get Republican cooperation on many other domestic initiatives... as Congress grapples with ways to cut the federal budget, Mr. Obama is also proposing to increase education spending by 11 percent – a proposal that is likely to run into significant opposition from Republicans.

“If we want more good news on the jobs front then we’ve got to make more investments in education,’’ Mr. Obama told students in a crowded gymnasium. He went on, “I want everybody to understand: Our job is not just to cut. Even as we find ways to cut spending what we can’t do is cut back on investments like education.’’

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/obama-and-jeb-bush-visit-a-miami-school

[bvar22]

70. If the 11% goes to non-union, private "charter" schools,

or vouchers for the same,
I'm not interested.
Nudge me when we get a Public Option,
or NAFTA is unilaterally re-negotiated,
Or Obama put on his comfortable shoes,
or a Wall Street criminal goes to jail,
or the top 2% gets to "share the sacrifice".


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[ClarkUSA]

78. I highly doubt that the entire 11% will go to public charter schools, so you can relax.

Of course, the Teabagger House might vote down any increase and cut education funding by billions.

[defendandprotect]

80. "You doubt" ... so we should take it as literal truth on trust? :rofl:

[ClarkUSA]

96. Do you think it's possible that the entire proposed 11% increase will go solely to charter schools?

[defendandprotect]

110. Given Obama's record -- as you saw from the Rahm comments -- anything is possible.

[ClarkUSA]

119. You still have no proof, then. Gotcha.

[Imagevision]

51. And Bill Clinton chooses George H.W. Bush for a golfing partner and doesn't try to hide it...

[ClarkUSA]

52. Did he ever use Bush II as a prop to push for an 11% increase in education spending?

I wish he would take a page from Pres. Obama's playbook. Teachers facing billion-dollar cuts in funding due to GOP governors need as much advocacy they can get.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClarkUSA]

98. Yawn.

:boring:

[callous taoboy]

127. Never have I felt 11% terrible about putting someone on ignore like I do now.

[bobbolink]

113. Just when you think POTUS can't sink any further....

SURPRISE!

:puke:

Lookee.. Jeb Bush is getting our pony!

[jefferson_dem]

114. The President of the US actually appeared at an event with a Republican!!1!

And spoke from the same stage! Stone him!

[lonestarnot]

126. Fucking ackety.

:puke:

[Robeson]

129. Lot of Jeb Bush defenders on this thread. Never thought I'd see the day...

...well, at least not on this site.

[MasonJar]

132. Obama's cabinet pick for Education was as atrocious as his choice for Sec of the Treasury.

He has a bizarre way of working for the good of the people.

[ellenrr]

139. Other Bush, Neil, makes millions by producing standardized tests

Democracy Now, 2004-
when Neil Bush was banned from banking, he banked on education.

In October 2001, shortly after the United States began bombing Afghanistan, Neil attended an international technology conference in Dubai. He was fishing for investors for his latest business venture—Ignite Incorporated, an interactive education software company that he founded in March 1999. Ignite says its goal is to help students improve their standardized test scores. And that’s where No Child Left Behind comes into play.

Neil Bush’s company sells software to prepare students to take comprehensive tests required under "No Child Left Behind." Schools that fail the tests will face termination of federal assistance. The contracts for these test programs are very lucrative. Ignite is currently running a pilot program at a Middle School in Orlando, Florida--where Neil’s brother Jeb is governor. The company hopes to sell the software throughout Florida at $30 per pupil per year.

In mid-February, Houston school board members unanimously agreed to accept $115,000 in charitable donations that would be funneled to Ignite. The Houston Independent School District trustees had initially delayed a vote on the matter in December, saying they were concerned that Bush’s Austin-based company might be benefiting from his family name. But in February, the nine board members approved the funding without discussion.

http://www.democracynow.org/2004/3/12/no_bush_left_behind_when_youre

[slay]

140. This is a great thread to see

how just a few Obama apologists can dominate and take over a thread with their petty bickering with, and mockery of, other DU members.

I have some advice.

Only reply to these people once or twice at the most. They want to hijack YOURS and every other thread that is not 100% pro-Obama.

DU is not going to stop them so we need to change how we react to them.

Peace.

[demmiblue]

143. I wholeheartedly agree.

I don't know why people even bother engaging them.

[disillusioned73]

142. The hits (disappointments) just keep on coming...

I finally watched Capitalism and boy did Micheal Moore give the Prez a pass on the issue of financial reform and the mass fraud that we are still digging ourselves from..

[slay]

144. OT: He did the same thing in Fahrenheit 9/11

Who knew what and when was NEVER covered in his documentary about 9/11. The possibility of an "Operation Northwoods" type plan by Cheney and the NeoCons who DESPERATELY wanted into Iraq but had no way to convince the public at the time - was totally ignored even though 33% of people do NOT believe the official story of 9/11. Alex Jones (yes he's wrong about a lot of things, but not everything) busted him for it in one of the 9/11 documentaries - asked him why he wouldn't even talk about it - Moore said - "that would be UnAmerican". Ugh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

It's hard to know who to trust. I think for the most part Michael Moore is as open and honest about 9/11 and Bush, the horror of Capitalism, gun control, and health care - as he's allowed to be. I'm sure he's been told from on high that the REAL truth, about a lot of things, could and would cause a panic. :shrug:

*i realize this reply doesn't apply to the original thread topic so mods - if you have to - just delete my post rather than sending this entire thread to the dungeon as is often done when 9/11 is being discussed. i'm not trying to get the OP's thread tossed or locked in any way!*

[BrklynLiberal]

145. sickening that Obama would even be in the same building as Jeb Bush!!!!!!!

[GoCubsGo]

151. You're kidding, right?

The man was the previous Governor of the state in which the President was speaking. Is he supposed act like an adolescent and avoid him altogether?

[Bluebear]

153. Doesn't mean he has to honor the man as "a champion of education". nt

[treestar]

146. How involved is this?

Is Jebbie becoming Secretary of Education?

Why do people make such a big deal out of these things? Duncan has more influence. Why don't they look at the whole picture?

[GoCubsGo]

152. Because Jeb has cooties.

;-)