Who 'Contributes' to Public Workers' Pensions?

[SHRED]

Here is a critical point regarding public pensions and health care:

"The question journalists should be asking is "who contributes" to the state of Wisconsin' s pension and health care plans.

The fact is that all of the money going into these plans belongs to the workers because it is part of the compensation of the state workers. The fact is that the state workers negotiate their total compensation, which they then divvy up between cash wages, paid vacations, health insurance and, yes, pensions. Since the Wisconsin government workers collectively bargained for their compensation, all of the compensation they have bargained for is part of their pay and thus only the workers contribute to the pension plan. This is an indisputable fact. "


http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.nsf/Permalink/UBEN-8EDJYS?OpenDocument

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[sarcasmo]

1. This point needs to be hammered into every wing nuts brain.

[progressoid]

4. Won't matter

They still see it as their tax money paying for someone else's retirement.

[Pacifist Patriot]

6. Exactly

[Bozita]

2. Johnston was on Democracy Now! yesterday -link to audio, video, transcript

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/3/really_bad_reporting_in_wisconsin_media


"Really Bad Reporting in Wisconsin": Media Parroting Walker’s False Claims of Taxpayer "Subsidies" for Workers’ Pensions

In their coverage of Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s attempt to undermine public workers’ unions, many journalists have parroted Walker’s claim that unionized state workers get their pensions "subsidized" by the state. We speak with investigative reporter and Pulitzer Prize-winner David Cay Johnston, who counters the assertion that pensions are costing taxpayers by pointing out that the workers themselves contribute 100 percent in deferred compensation. Johnson’s latest article is called, "Really Bad Reporting in Wisconsin: Who 'Contributes' to Public Workers’ Pensions?"

[Romulox]

3. I don't think telling taxpayers that they aren't the source of Public Workers' compensation

(which includes both salary and benefits) is a winning tack. It flies in the face of common sense. :shrug:

[sinkingfeeling]

5. Absolutely. Part of the problem is that younger people equate pension with 401Ks since there are

so few private corporations providing defined benefits any more.

[notesdev]

7. The costs are all ultimately borne by the taxpayers

This is a fundamental fact that must be acknowledged - every dollar paid out by government was first taken from a taxpayer.

The average taxpayer - the ones NOT able to buy custom exemptions from legislatures, and on whom any traditional tax hike will place additional burdens - is in this position:

- He is lucky to have any job at all, and is very likely to be in a job well below his qualifications just to keep the money flowing in.
- He is accosted on all sides by policemen acting as revenue officers, nickel and diming him to death.
- He is seeing the price of gas go up, and the price of food going up, both at dramatic rates. He may well be on food stamps already just to survive.
- If he did own a home, chances are excellent that he is now 50% underwater or thereabouts. The property taxes on his home have not gone down to reflect the drop in value.
- His retirement plans, if he had any at all, took a huge hit in the stock market in 2008 and have not recovered.
- His health plan, if he has one at all, now costs 50% more than it did two years ago, when it was already outrageously expensive.
- If he had any savings, he has been earning nothing at all on them thanks to zero percent interest rates.
- If he is on a fixed income, he is seeing zero COLA even though his survival expenses are plainly going up at a rapid rate.

In short, the average taxpayer has nothing more to give, and could not negotiate on this point even if he wanted to - he is up against the wall of what he must do to merely survive.


All these roads lead to Wall Street and Washington D.C., and protests elsewhere are aimed at the wrong target.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. I didn't know anybody had asked Wisconsin taxpayers to pay more. Do you approve of Gov. Walker

giving $140 million in tax breaks to corporations? I make 6 figures and pay as a single individual, so both my federal and state contributions are hefty. I would much rather pay public employees a decent middle class salary, with pensions and benefits, than let businesses pay no taxes.

[notesdev]

10. Well duh

If you make 6 figures then you aren't the average Joe who is struggling, you're making three times the median!

Now go back and read that list I made, because it accurately (if incompletely) describes the position of a great many people who, unlike yourself, do not have the luxury of a six figure income, and try to put yourself in those shoes... and while you're at it, contemplate why we got wiped out so heavily in the 2010 elections at all levels, from coast to coast.

[sinkingfeeling]

11. So you just want to see the entire middle class wiped out? By the way the median income in the US

is $49,777. Again, who has asked Wisconsin taxpayers for more?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

[notesdev]

12. that's the household median not the individual median

The individual median is closer to $33k/year.

The middle class has already been wiped out. Elizabeth Warren demonstrated exactly how:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

It is probably news to you up in the six-figure stratosphere, but it's not news to anyone who has made a median income in the past few years.

Who asked Wisconsin taxpayers for more? The public unions have, through the politicians that depend on them, using the exact same funding/pressure mechanism that corporations use to corrupt public officials.

Under Democratic leadership, taxes were hiked many times in Wisconsin in recent years for the same things being demanded by the unions now. Which is why the electorate threw those Democrats out and gave the Republicans the Governor's seat and solid majorities in both houses of the legislature.

Flexing political muscle they lacked for four years, Democrats on Tuesday pushed through the Senate a budget with historic tax increases, a $15.2 billion universal health care plan and a broader role for state government in the lives of every Wisconsin resident.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/29462554.html


In other words, the moment Democrats in Wisconsin took power, they jacked up taxes in a major way. Let there be no misunderstanding here - this is the reason why Democrats are no longer in power in Wisconsin, and by extension the reason why collective bargaining is threatened there today.

[sinkingfeeling]

14. I think you're on the wrong site. Taxes were not hiked on those making less than $300,000.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/47967726.html

Also wanted to point out that median income is affected by educational status. And $100,000 is the median personal income for someone over 25, employed full time, with a professional degree.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

[LiberalFighter]

13. It is not taken from the taxpayers.

Taxpayers have a duty to pay taxes to support the cost of government which they benefit directly.

[old mark]

K&R- I was a public employee, and the only person who contributed to my

retirement was me. Purs goes into a statewide investment fund that has done very well despite the economy in general, and we have a surplus.

I'm not worried about my pension unless our new GOP governor decides to fuck with it.

mark

[Spike from MN]

9. The pensions are funded 100% from paycheck deductions.

Here's a quote and a link:

"Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

How can this be possible?

Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future."

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/

Once that money is earned, it's theirs to do with as they please. They can opt for greater take-home pay or choose to invest it in a pension instead. It's their call. There's not even any matching like a lot of companies provide for their employees with their 401k. 100% of the money comes from the wages of the employee.