GM sells just 281 Chevy Volts in February, Nissan only moves 67 Leafs

[PBS Poll-435]

by Sebastian Blanco (RSS feed) on Mar 1st 2011 at 7:47PM
Autoblog.com
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/gm-sells-281-chevy-volts-february-nissan-67-leafs/

Peruse Chevrolet's February sales release, and you'll notice one number that's blatantly missing: the number of Chevy Volts sold. The number – a very modest 281 – is available in the company's detailed data (PDF), but it certainly isn't something that GM wants to highlight, apparently. Keeping the number quiet is a bit understandable, since it's lower than the 321 that Chevy sold in January.

Nissan doesn't have anything to brag about here, either (and it didn't avoiding any mention of the Leaf sales in its press release). Why? Well, back in January, the company sold 87 Leafs. In February? Just 67. Where does that leave us? Well, here's the big scorecard for all sales of these vehicles thus far:

Volt: 928
Leaf: 173

Ouch. The big questions, of course, revolve around one word: "Why?" Is ramping up production and deliveries still a problem? Is demand weak? Are unscrupulous dealers to blame? When will sales start to climb? And what are these numbers doing to plug-in vehicle work at other automakers? We don't know all the answers, but for more on February auto sales, click here.

[SoCalDem]

1. THEY COST TOO MUCH

to be more than a "cute novelty" for a rich person..

[thereismore]

11. That's it. And if you already have a car that works, why pay $30K for something

you don't desperately need.

[SoCalDem]

13. The proper model is the VW Beetle

Easy to fix, cheap enough for "the people" to afford, and body styles that remain more or less the same...forever..

[Xithras]

27. Sadly, you can't legally build those anymore.

Air bags, crumple zones, computer controlled engines, electronic stability control systems, the list goes on and on. All of these are required on new cars under federal law. All of these are expensive to include. It's no longer legal to build and sell a "simple" car in the U.S.

[SoCalDem]

71. I know that the Beetle is no longer "do-able", but there has to be a way

to produce a good car..a clean one, for a price that MOST people could afford.

IF getting pollution producers off the road is the eventual goal.. Apparently that is not a goal we have as a nation, so it's a moot point.

The cost of new cars..,ANY new car is the reason why we see so many OLD cars on the road.. and why most people drive their cars until they fall apart.

[Vinee]

17. Truck sales were up 32% in February. Trucks ain't exactly cheap either.

[SoCalDem]

18. so?

I guess 32% were eager to take on more debt.. and preferred a truck..

[Vinee]

22. I'm just saying, the consumer seems to prefer gas guzzling trucks over the Volt.

[blogslut]

57. Trucks are utility vehicles

While they have lousy gas mileage, a lot of people buy them because they need the functionality of a truck. In addition, trucks have incredible resale value.

[Vinee]

59. I have one. I love evrything about it except its shitty gas mileage.

2 feet of snow? no problem. Need to haul a bunch of stuff from point a to point b, no problem. Big person who needs lots of room, no problem. It is definitely functional.

[FLPanhandle]

2. Wait until gas hits $5/gallon

All those people buying SUVs and Pickups will be fighting over them.

[Frisbee]

55. A very large percentage of those trucks...

are sold to businesses.

[Turbineguy]

3. I would consider a Volt

but I'm not in the market for a new car for a few years yet. It's a new thing and risk is not what Americans have an appetite for just now.

[ejpoeta]

6. I figure by the time I am in the market for a car they should be better tested

and have the kinks out of them.

[Johonny]

24. that is pretty much the business model

New technology generally plans for "first" adopters. High tech people that want cutting edge stuff. They tend to be more willing to tolerate problems. That was the Prius business model. After Prius showed to be reliable their demand increased very quickly. I don't see Volt as very different. Right now GM not even really advertising it. Which makes you think they aren't ready for a demand crush yet anyways.

[ejpoeta]

4. once the gas prices keep going up, you will see people flood to these kinds of vehicles.

remember the last time gas prices shot up. People were dumping their SUVs and other gas guzzlers and priuses became all the rage. Recently people have been moving back to buying the bigger cars, but I am betting that will change soon. Gas here is $3.61 last I looked.... Set to go even higher. In some ways this is difficult because a lot of people are already struggling and increased gas prices will make it even harder for them. But such things also help fuel the desire for fuel efficiency instead of bells and whistles as i like to call them.

[Baclava]

49. The Chevy Volt has a gas engine too

Q: How many miles per gallon will the Chevy Volt get?

A: A bit of a trick question. For the first 35 miles it will get infinite mpg, because no gas will be burned. When the generator starts, the car will get 37 mpg (35 mpg city/40 mpg highway) thereafter.

http://gm-volt.com/chevy-volt-faqs/

[ejpoeta]

52. most people don't travel that far to get to work. Even if you went 30

miles each way you would be saving money. I am hopeful that the capacity for evs will increase. gas vehicles have had over 100 years to improve and develop..... Hopefully it will not take that long for EVs to improve

[Baclava]

60. It all comes down to battery tech...they say the Volt's will last 8 years/100,000

It's in the warranty. That's good news.


General Motors will offer buyers of its Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid an eight-year, 100,000-mile warranty on the lithium-ion battery's 161 components.

The warranty also includes the battery's thermal management system, charging system and electric-drive components

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100714/GREEN/100719940#ixzz1Fed6fpVg

[ejpoeta]

64. and i think the technology will improve over time. i look forward to it.

I tell my freeper brother who insists more drilling is the answer..... it's a national security issue. if we can make oil unnecessary, then it's value would plummet and the places that have the oil would not have such a big bargaining chip and be able to hold us hostage. he did have to agree with that. electric vehicles... solar.... wind energy..... all good ways to achieve that.

[sharp_stick]

5. The price has to come down

a lot to make up the difference in fuel costs over a "normal" compact car. Right now both of these cars are nothing but vanity items for rich people that want to pretend they make a difference.

[PoliticAverse]

7. Some dealers are charging $5,000 over MSRP for the Volt

Which implies demand exceeds supply (Consumer Reports had to pay $5,000 over MSRP for the Volt they bought):

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/april/cars/chevrolet-volt/overview/index.htm

The problem with the Volt is that it is simply too expensive. Even with the $7,500 taxpayer subsidy.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. They are expensive

In the case of the Volt, Chevy claimed they would be far more affordable, and the price rose to an absurd height. I had intended to buy one, but by the time they arrived they were well over 35K not the under 20k start Chevy had claimed, for years, to be delivering.
The last time I listen to GM's raving lies. They can offer me a car at a price, today, but never again will I listen to them when they talk about next year's model, they lie, lie and lie to pad their own reputation.
They made a toy for the rich. Lots of people make things I can not afford. I also do not have a Bentley. Same reasons.

[HappyMe]

9. Too expensive. People are struggling

to keep a roof over their heads and foods on their families.

[BillStein]

10. lack of recharging stations

I live in a condo, so I can't recharge at home. If they open up a charging station where I can leave my car while at work or overnight it would be practical. Until then I'm stuck with my super-efficient compact.

[Ilsa]

33. And the recharging has to be the high-speed recharging, or it won't

be practical for a lot of people who drive long distances. The infrastructure isn't right yet for a lot of people, including me.

[NV Whino]

12. I would like to add to the "too expensive" comments...

I have yet to see just how much it costs in electricity to recharge them. So are they more cost effective? :shrug: No one knows right now.

High initial price + unknown running cost = low sales.

[SoCalDem]

16. and how much to fix what ails them?

and where to get them fixed..

I'm sure there's a warranty, but that car is supposed to outlast a warranty..and then what?

those batteries have to be expensive..

[BillStein]

19. According to GreenPlanet.com

they are cheaper to run, ie cost of gasoline v. cost of electricity

http://planetgreen.discovery.com/tech-transport/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-electric-car.html

And that article has the cost of gas at $2.70/gallon. I paid $3.39 yesterday

(edited typos)

[PoliticAverse]

21. Consumer Reports gives some #s...

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/april/cars/chevrolet-volt/overview/index.htm

"GM says that recharge times are about 4 hours with a 240-volt supply and 10 to 12 hours with 120 volts. Our Volt has been taking in almost 13 kWh in about 5 hours every time we charge. We suggest that Volt buyers purchase a 220-volt (or Level 2) charger.

At the national average rate of 11 cents per kWh, the Volt would cost about 5.7 cents per mile in electric mode and then 10 cents a mile beyond that (assuming gas is $3 per gallon). By contrast, a Toyota Prius costs 6.8 cents per mile, and a gas-powered Honda Fit subcompact costs about 10 cents a mile in gas. But its price is less than half of what the Volt costs."

[NV Whino]

50. My Honda Fit

cost me $899 in fuel last year. The car cost $16,750 out the door (cash). Maintenance consists of an oil change every 5,000 miles ($35 ±) and a big maintenance at 100,000 miles ($200±). I would be dead and buried before a Volt or Leaf would pay for itself.

[PoliticAverse]

53. How many miles on the $899 worth of fuel ?

[NV Whino]

72. I don't have an accurate record

I get 33 to 38 mpg.

[Union Scribe]

35. You forgot part of the equation

"consumers who don't walk the talk"

[TheWraith]

40. An EV will cost you about 4 cents a mile, versus 12 cents or more for a gas car.

If you take the average American commute of ~35 miles a day, driving that 5 days a week for a year, a reasonably efficient (30 MPG) gas-fired car will cost you about $1,100 to run. If you have a less efficient vehicle, like a pickup or small SUV, that's close to $2,200. An electric vehicle will cost you about $360.

[Hutzpa]

14. Where would you charge your Volt or Leaf?

has anyone thought of that? or are we just focused on acquiring the product.

Is there any charging station for these vehicles that are coming in to the
market? No, what do they expect, people to buy these cars and then what, put
it in your garage as a furniture or something to stare at.

[S_E_Fudd]

29. It can charge on your home system....

Either plug into a normal outlet...or you can have a charging station installed in your garage for faster charging...

[Hutzpa]

32. What about when you're not home

what accommodations have they put in place for that? How about light bills, the energy
companies will have a field day, life is difficult as it is for the middle class and
introducing this without first thinking about how this will impact the lives of people
is just imo a recipe for disaster. Don't get me wrong, I am extremely in favor of clean
energy and electric cars etc, but we have made mistakes in the past that are haunting
us now and I for one would not want to see that repeat itself again.

We have to find newer ways of addressing these issues which are not much but are just
little details that needs looking in to.

[TheWraith]

41. Electric vehicles would average less than a dollar a day to charge.

No special accommodations are needed besides an extension cord. And the large majority of people would not need to charge when they're away from home.

[S_E_Fudd]

62. Read up...

The Volt uses a small gasoline engine to charge the battery if the charge runs out. It can go up to 300 miles this way. If you travel across country constantly this is not the car for you. If you are an average commuter driving less than 300 miles a day then you should have no problem. If you drive 40 miles or less a day then it could be months before you need to get gas again.

Studies indicate the energy use and pollution caused by the Volt is far less than regular gasoline engines.

To wait until all problems are solved before doing anything is ridiculous. Electric cars are now feasible, will come down in price. If it causes problems with the power delivery system, well then that is a good impetus to update the grids and expand the use of renewable energy.

As with any new technology early adopters will get it first. Once they are using it, the price comes down until more and more people can afford it...it is the same with any new technology

Every review of the Volt I have read from Car & Driver on down has been very positive not only as an electric car, but as a car that is practical for the average driver.

[david13]

15. I would prefer the Nissan any day. GM?? Are you kidding me? dc

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughBeaumont]

20. Forty-something thousand dollars is too damned much for a car.

At best, I'll be able to afford their 20k Cruze Eco next year when I get my Basement waterproofing, HELOC, new windows and one other thing paid off first. The problem is too much necessity debt and not enough wage to pay for it.

What part of "Wages in Real Dollars haven't risen since 1979" do these people fail to comprehend? Strapped and scared Americans cannot afford the Volt (or the Leaf). You don't know what's going to happen 4 years from now, and what if something does and you're left holding the bag for this $40+ thousand dollar vehicle?

[Vinee]

25. the next car I buy will be a 1970ish Jeep with a straight 6

It's lightweight with a gas sipping motor, 4WD, and so easy to maintain. New cars today suck because they are too complicated. I don't need ABS brakes or 8 way power seats, or HUD. It's just more to break. who the hell can afford regular $1,000 maintenance jobs on top of $4/gal gas? not me.

[TheWraith]

42. Except that 1970s vehicles needed more maintainence and had shorter lives than modern ones.

The belief that modern cars are all crap is, at best, an idea which is not supported by evidence. Modern cars will go farther, need less tuning and mechanical attention, and have longer productive lives than those built decades ago, because they have superior materials and engineering.

[Vinee]

44. I'm talking about a 1970s jeep, not a 1970s anything else. I could fix anything on that vehicle

with next to nothing in the way of parts or tools. Diagnostic computers? forget about it. What would cost you $1,000 to fix on a modern vehicle could be fixed for a few bucks on that things. That isn't hyperbole. I fixed a broken motor mount alongside the road for about $2 by coupling the motor to the frame with a length of chain and a cable tensioner. I repeated the trick on my clutch connector when I broke that out in a mud hole-1 cable tensioner, 12 inche3s of bailing wire and I was back in action. try that with a modern vehicle. The next vehicle I buy will be another one of those but with a straight 6 instead of a 304 V8.

[bluedigger]

48. I like the way you think, Vinee.

I had an '85 CJ-7 and I loved it, but get a TJ - best version of the I-6, and much better ride. And if you are going to go with a Jeep, which is much "greener" than many will give credit, don't do it for economy. I get around 16mpg, maybe 19 on the highway if I keep the speed down. Take a look at some of the on-line vendors for parts prices, too. I discovered I broke my sway bar link yesterday. I could probably replace it for under $50 myself, but noooo. :rofl: New upgraded sway bar kit on order - $330. That's just how you do with Jeeps - when it breaks, it's time to Upgrade! :bounce:

[Vinee]

56. I don't remember what kind of mileage I got. Nobody cared about mileage back then.

Are you running some low gears? I want the I6 because it will increase the range as well as mileage hopefully and because it is easily maintained and has an abundant supply of parts. I would consider an engine swap to a ford straight 6 also because of the parts availability and ease of maintenance benefit. I definitely see this in my future.

[Kermitt Gribble]

65. That's the standard mpg for 4.0 Wranglers

Mine is a 2000 and gets about the same mileage as mentioned above. They are very easy to work on, though, and relatively inexpensive. I've never researched it, but I would imagine it wouldn't be hard to convert the 4.0 Liter straight 6 to use a carburetor, if you really wanted to.

You can probably find a TJ cheaper than a 70's CJ that's in good enough shape to be a daily driver.

[Vinee]

69. I'll keep that in mind.

I don't want a lot of emissions hassles and the only computer I want on it is in the stereo and GPS. simple, efficient, easy to maintain, durable, and able to drive through snow and mud. That's what makes the Jeep perfect... for me at least. I'm gonna look on ebay motors at TJs right now.

[JustAnotherGen]

23. I love my

2006 Nissan Altima that I bought new and paid cash for. I purchased it with the intent of driving it for 10 years. I have the cash saved for my next car - now. But I have another five years before I'm in the market for my next Nissan.

That's part of the problem . . . People who have cash aren't just buying, buying, buying. It's wasteful to spend money on something you don't need when what you have NOW works perfectly fine.

[S_E_Fudd]

26. These kinds of leaps take time....

How many could afford Flat screen TV's when they first came out?

As long as GM and the other manufacturers stick with it sales will grow, prices will come down...

[Courtesy Flush]

28. I've read that they're not expecting it to be a money maker.

But it gives them a lot of media buzz, lays the groundwork for capturing the green market (if there ever is one), and gets curious people to come in to the dealerships, where they can try to sell them a truck

[Dappleganger]

30. Helloooo--people who normally buy cars don't have jobs or are scared of losing

the one they have.

THIS is the new reality.

[Bandit]

31. Seems to me I recall Obama saying the Governement was going to go electric

with all new government purchases. I wonder if that was just more of his hot air.....

[Hutzpa]

34. I don't think it is

you probably need to do some research to find out whether he has been speaking hot air or not,
that is what I will do, false accusation has become the norm here on DU lately, but I see you
are not alone with that. :banghead:

[Bandit]

39. I will grant that I get carried away sometimes and exaggerate but you have to admit

many people are very disappointed in things Obama has back tracked on. Is he better than any Republican on the face of the earth...a resounding yes...is he the best America could provide..I certainly hope not..IMO I am so disappointed because I actually believed the stuff he said. I believed he would fight for progressive taxation as he promised he would, I believed him when he said "Main Street not Wall Street", I guess I am more upset with myself than I am with him, after all he is a politician.. I should have known better than to believe what he or any of them say..

[Hutzpa]

51. I think most of the people here on DU are confusing two things

when it comes to Obama which are 1)Their expectation of him and 2)Obama's statements
during the campaign. When Obama gave that wonderful speech in 2004 at the convention
his whole speech was about bringing people together and working from the middle for
the betterment of the United States of America.

Knowing that as a foundation on which he built on and seeing all the voting of Nos
against all of his proposals, again also seeing some democrats going against his proposals
vengefully, I am able to understand the difference between some of the achievements
he has been able to carry out and not try to make him the scapegoat as some here are
trying to do.

I was here from the beginning and I knew back then that the mess Bush has created
will be an enormous task for anyone to undertake, I knew I have to be patience
with him and also understand that the wheels of government turns slow and the
damage done by one politician with enablers cannot be overturn overnight by another,
government does not operate like that.

I also understand that during his campaign he made statements about how it is not going
to be easy and how some of the decisions he will make will not be accepted by the
majority of us so I use that as a way to further my own understanding of his decisions
by researching most if not all of his decisions he has made. The uproar being caused by
some imo can be down to the short attention span that some of us has.

Yes I do understand why most liberals/progressives are upset and pissed with him because
they sat and watch Bush piss all over the constitutions and was able to get things done
overnight - well at least what seems to be overnight, whereas the thinking here is why can't
Obama and Obama is much more intelligent than Bush, but... they are forgetting one thing, Bush
had people in place willing to work for him in order to accomplish their goals of disenfranchising
the American people through unpopular policies that are skewered toward discrimination.

[WatsonT]

38. Apparently the government bought 281 vehicles this year

[WatsonT]

37. Because people don't want to pay a lot for a car with limited range

that takes 5+ hours to fill up and will likely cost significantly more in basic maintenance and upkeep than a regular car.

They're a gimmick and likely will fail.

[TheWraith]

43. Electric vehicles cost far LESS in maintenance than a regular car.

Pure EVs have no oil to change, no oil filters, no gas, no mufflers to break or get corroded, no spark plugs to fix, no alternators to crap out, nothing.

"Limited range" is silly, particularly when you apply it to the Volt, which has a range comparable to any modern car, which you can replenish in seconds.

[Vinee]

45. an electric motor should have far fewer moving parts than its gas counterpart.

That should definitely translate into decreased engine/motor maintenance. Of course, I'm sure it's still loaded with all the usual planned obsolescence er, options that send cars to the mechanic.

[WatsonT]

47. Go find a mechanic trained in maintaining an electric car

Or spare parts.

It may be cheaper in some areas but whenever something goes wrong, or the batteries need to be replaced (plus disposal fees) it's going to hurt.

A lot of that is structural: we aren't set up as a nation to maintain these things because they are uncommon. They would change if they did become more common but for the time being it's going to be a toy for the well to do rather than a practical vehicle for the majority of Americans.


And according to the GM website:

Q: What is the driving range of the Chevy Volt?
A: The car has been designed to drive from 25 to 50 miles on pure electricity stored in the battery from overnight home charging. The actual range will vary depending on temperature, terrain, and driving style.

After that the gas engine will kick in and allow the car to be driven an additional 344 miles on a full tank (9.3 gallons) of gas.

That is under ideal circumstances. As they age the batteries lose charge, and the weather can adversely affect the efficiency of the battery. It is a factor to consider.


Also the 10 hour charge time is not a trivial thing.

[theophilus]

46. Well, things have changed in two months. I think this is mostly B.S.

I think they are not providing the cars to dealers. Take a look at this from January:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/7392422.html

There are still tons of older people with quite a bit of cash that yell when they have to pay more for gas.

[Modern_Matthew]

54. Screw 'em. Used cars are what's affordable. And that's what we'll drive. Green or not. nt

[NashVegas]

58. MSRP from $40280 For Chevy, $32k for Nissan

What have they got for people on median income?

You know, the ones who are expected to buy homes starting at $160k, pay $600 per month out of pocket on health insurance, and shell out an additional $200 a month on car insurance?

[TheKentuckian]

61. Way over a year's pay at this point with a payment that would rival or exceed rent.

Many of us literally cannot make such a purchase and that is before we get into practicality. Since I cannot always park near my home it would make charging a mess.

[Initech]

63. Neither vehicle are widely available yet.

If you look at Nissan's official website, they're still taking pre-orders for the Leaf. And I've seen one, maybe two Volts on the road tops. Give it a year and those numbers will change drastically.

[Chris_Texas]

66. toy for rich folks

[Kermitt Gribble]

67. The Volt is a very nice looking car, IMO.

I saw one in person for the first time a few weeks ago and was pleasantly surprised. I haven't been a fan of GM's styling for a very long time, but I would definitely buy a Volt if I could afford it and was in the market for a new car.

[Baclava]

73. I'd buy one if I was rich - but for tooling around town a Honda scooter would work even better me

And a new 2011 only costs a little over 3 grand

125cc liquid-cooled single-cylinder four-stroke...110 MPG

[Shagbark Hickory]

68. Lets see those sales figures when they actually get some in at the dealers.

Waiting lists don't count.

[fifthoffive]

70. We looked at the Leaf

We were in the local Nissan dealer, and while we were there we took a look at the Leaf. Oddly, the one they have on the floor belongs to Lamar Alexander. Made me feel like I was in a car museum... I half expected to see the General Jackson or the Elvis's Cadillac.

They showed us the charging station they have there, and talked about how you can charge the car at home. If I recall correctly (and I may not), without the charging station, it takes about 8 hours to recharge; at a charging station, it takes about 1/2 an hour to recharge. Drive for an hour, recharge for eight hours.

Seemed way too expensive.