TEACHER: "I can't get a home loan. I set my thermostat at 62. No cable at my house, no internet,"

[kpete]

Are These People Overpaid?

...............


On the second floor, HuffPost met Erica McCool, a seventh-grade English teacher in Stoughton, carrying a sign that said she wouldn't let Walker into her classroom because he's a bully. A former paralegal, McCool said she she started studying to get a Wisconsin educator license in 2005 and now earns about $30,000 a year as an English teacher. She loves her job but laughed when asked whether she considered herself overprivileged.

"I can't get a home loan. I set my thermostat at 62. No cable at my house, no internet," said McCool, 29. "I'm also $36,000 in debt from becoming a teacher."

On the ground floor, Madison resident Pete Silva told HuffPost he had been a firefighter for 26 years when he retired in September at age 52. Silva said he worked 56 hours a week, often 24-hour shifts, driving a fire engine in response to fires and medical emergencies. He said his salary started at $31,000 and had reached $60,000 by the time he retired.

Silva said his pension provides $30,000 a year, which isn't enough for him to live on, so he's taken a job as an instructor in the Wisconsin Technical College System, earning roughly $55,000 a year. His total income is significantly higher than what he earned as a firefighter, but he makes no apologies, arguing that a nice pension was part of the deal he made in exchange for his decades in a dangerous job. He said he sustained two neck injuries from lifting "very, very heavy patients" and has had to replace herniated discs.

.............

THE REST: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/25/wisconsin-workers-overpaid_n_828077.html

[Jakes Progress]

1. A headline like this just makes arne giggle.

Obama's basketball buddy thinks that is what should happen to teachers. He's is to teachers what the Gov of Wisconsin is to labor.

[senseandsensibility]

2. I can relate to that young teacher

I lived for years with roommates in one bedroom apartments, finally affording to move into my own one bedroom only after years of teaching with a Masters and two credentials under my belt. I didn't have cable or internet, and could not even afford a computer for my home until I was in my late thirties. Since I didn't have one at work either, not even for the students to use, I was late to learn computer basics and have been paying for it ever since. My friends from college all made triple what I did and used to tease me for doing "volunteer" work.

[reggie the dog]

6. sell them their pot

seriously selling cannabis is a good way for us teachers to supplement our meager income

[AnneD]

27. And prostution....

the hours are compatible. You can pay your student loan off in no time.....:sarcasm: but do I really need to use that smilie?

[reggie the dog]

28. that is why we get our master's degrees

to live the life of a common hoodlum.....gotta pay off those loans before the intersts kick in after all ;)

[AnneD]

33. Damn it feels good...

to be a gangsta.;)

[senseandsensibility]

31. Obviously, I'd never do that.

Teachers are law abiding and have to pass background checks. I'd lose my job if did such a thing, and really, it's so off my radar screen that I almost don't know how to respond. Just in case anyone takes your comment seriously.

[reggie the dog]

32. just a sarcastic remark

to highlight that the only way a teacher can be earning too much money is illegally, whereas our counterparts from the universities in many other sectors do just fine legally.....

[xmas74]

43. You'd be better off

cooking meth where I live.

[AnneD]

55. Put that....

Chemistry and fraction math to work. I always knew Al Gebra was a terrorist front.

[xmas74]

57. Ever watch Breaking Bad?

Bryan Cranston plays a high school science teacher who finds out he has cancer. He becomes a meth cook as a way to put back money for his family if he dies.

[LibDemAlways]

3. Far from it. They simply represent millions who are being

squeezed, screwed, and otherwise pummeled by the wealthy and powerful.

[femrap]

4. Banksters are overpaid!

Let's go after them.

[SlimJimmy]

5. Okay, what is wrong with this scenario?

Silva said his pension provides $30,000 a year, which isn't enough for him to live on, so he's taken a job as an instructor in the Wisconsin Technical College System, earning roughly $55,000 a year. His total income is significantly higher than what he earned as a firefighter, but he makes no apologies, arguing that a nice pension was part of the deal he made in exchange for his decades in a dangerous job. He said he sustained two neck injuries from lifting "very, very heavy patients" and has had to replace herniated discs.

I just can't really muster all that much sympathy for a person earning $85,000 in retirement.

[tkmorris]

7. He isn't retired

He's working a full time job when he SHOULD be retired, because the pension he receives isn't enough to live on.

[SlimJimmy]

9. Why? If he can work a full time job, he shouldn't be retired. (nt)

[leftstreet]

13. Wait, wut? So if a 90 yr old is able to work....

:shrug:

[SlimJimmy]

14. 52, that's the magic number. He wasn't forced into retirement, he

chose to retire at that age.

[leftstreet]

16. What's wrong with that?

Couldn't earlier retirement ages be argued as a more efficient rotation of jobs/workers?

[SlimJimmy]

20. Possibly, but if they have to get a new full time job to make ends

meet. Then that would tend to defeat the purpose.

[leftstreet]

23. So the answer appears to be a significant raising of wages

If we kept more of the value of our labors, rather than letting others profit from it...

[reggie the dog]

29. 52 seems to be a fine age to retire to me

it was 49 in Turkey up until a few years ago..... plus firefighting is a high risk job and at 52 his body deserves to rest.

[AnneD]

30. Pension envy, SlimJim....

He was a fire fighter for gods sake....Do you know what a toll that takes on a body. Have you any idea how much that equipment weighs? The wear and tear on the joints and back, not to mention all the exposure to toxic fumes in a fire should qualify them for early retirement. Just think of the first responders at the WTC.

I am a Nurse and I qualify for a pension retirement. I am in good health but am working a bit extra to boost my pension. When I leave I will work part time. I will make more working part time than I did working full time for the state. I chose less pay for a pension (which I also contributed to). Nursing was a second career for me and I have enough quarters to qualify for SS but guess what, I won't get it because of my pension-even though I have been working since I was 16. Yes I am one of those 'entitled' state pensioner.

It really chaps my ass when I hear people spouting off about what someone make in their pensions. I paid for that pension and these politicians think they can steal my money from me? I am union for a reason. We still have our benefits because we fought for them and organized. I always tell folks, if you want union wages and benefits, join a union. Companies do what is best for them. If they did right by the workers...THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR UNIONS. In all my working life, I can count on one finger the number of bosses that looked out for their employees.

Instead of petty jealousy, why not stand up for something better. My biggest regreat...not supporting the PATCO strikers. I have never made that mistake again.

[nashville_brook]

37. right on.

:thumbsup:

[SlimJimmy]

51. Pension envy? I don't think so. My pension will be considerably better than his at retirement.

But that's not the point. The entire point of this thread was how underpaid teachers and firefighters are. (look again at the title). My point was, and still is, that I find it hard to sympathize with a person drawing a 30k pension and holding a 55k second job. You'll notice that I didn't comment on the teacher's wages. And to answer some of your questions. I've worked in emergency services for more than thirty years. I might know something about what police and firefighters do, and how much their gear weighs. But let me emphasize this. After 15 years or so, that firefighter was not dragging hoses around or running up and down stairs. He was either a manager, supervisor, or at the very least, a senior firefighter tending to the pressure regulators on the truck. And even then, if he was disabled, he could have been assigned as a fire marshal (inspector) or as a state fire investigator. Let's get real, firefighters in that age range don't, as a rule, run into burning building any longer unless they are part of a small department. And at that 60k salary, I doubt that was the case.

But with that said, I have a question for you. Why can't you draw both SS and your state pension? There are no rules that I'm aware of that would disallow it. I will draw both a public sector pension and SS when I retire in ten years or so. If you have the requisite number of quarters, you will also draw SS. Please explain.

[AnneD]

54. Congress passed a law....

In 2003 I think call wind fall elimination ( WIN and OWL ). Effectively, it prevents me from collecting SS with my pension because my school district does not pay SS ( like the Rail road pension). By opting out of SS, this made it cheaper for states to provide for a retirement plan.

Even though this is a second career and I have enough quarters I can neither collect a portion of my SS , or collect survivors benefits from my husbands SS. Now since most teachers make less than their husbands, they lose a benefit that just about everyone else in the country gets. I have to go out work an additional 4 or 5 years outside of my state job again just to get a portion. We can thank Tom DeLay for that.

So you see, if they cut or take away the pensions in many states....we can't even get SS in some cases. Texas has funded better than most and we have been vigilant in preventing the state government from dipping in to our retirement funds.

Say a person works one job and keeps his 401 or 403 and does not roll it over, and starts working a different job. He starts another 401 or 403 and after x number of years draws from both....how is that different from having a pension or social security and working an extra job. Say his first saving vehicle matures while he is still working and he can get that money....how is that different. My father joined the Air Force at 18 and retired after 20 years (with a tour in VN). He took advantage of the GI bill got a degree and put in another 25 with another company-the whole time drawing his military pension. It wasn't much but he did well.

I was a single mom and I could not raise my daughter AND save what I needed. At 38 I made a conscious decision to work as a school nurse. It was easily a 10-20 k salary difference. I worked per diem on the weekends she was with her dad to make up the cut in pay. I actually made more on those 4 days than the entire month as a school nurse. I now have enough time in to retire and I am still healthy enough to earn my full potential-or what the market will bear. The state has gotten a great deal on my services for 20 years. Frankly, with all the bad mouthing of teachers and other public servants, and all the threats and bullying going on-why the hell should I stay where I am not wanted. I have given it my all for 20 years. I am not asking for the moon, just what I was promised and what was in the contract.

If you are doing so well, why are you passing judgement on this man. He chose not to go out on a disability but take an early retirement and work in another area. Maybe you don't have pension envy, but it sure sounds like it.

I refuse to judge this man and I did not perceive him as whining, in fact I though he was a bit stoic about it and state a fact. Public workers are not overpaid by and large

[1monster]

35. With two herniated discs, he's supposed to continue doing the work of a fire fighter?

What's this? You don't want him to retire until he's so crippled he can't move without a motorized wheel chair?

edited to add: My father was a volunteer fireman for many years. I remember the morning after a fire to which he responded, when he was in his early to mid forties, hearing on the news that he was in the hospital because his body temperature had fallen to 84 degrees due to the frigid weather fire. Another time, he broke his ankle stepping off the fire truck while hauling heavy equipment.

Fire fighting is a dangerous and physically onerous job. Most people at age fifty-two would find the physicality of the job extremely difficult; they would be slowing down considerably and start to become a danger to their fellow fire fighters simply because they were no long up to the job. And that does not even begin to figure in the job related injuries that come along with being a fire figher.

Silva probably put in at least 20 years of service to collect that pension in the first place. He's earned it, and probably contributed heavily toward it over the years.

[RayOfHope]

42. He's a firefighter. That's a very physically demanding job, and he's got prior injuries.

WTF? What is wrong with people?

[dionysus]

45. he was a firefighter with a destroyed back. he couldn't do it anymore.

[SlimJimmy]

48. He could have worked as an inspector or investigator. There are more than just hose dragging

jobs in a fire department. And with 26 years in, I doubt he was a hose-dragger anyway.

[krispos42]

26. He can work a full-time job, just not as a firefighter.

Regardless, he put in his years and earned the pension. He put the prime of his life into being a firefighter.

If he had won the lottery he would still deserve the pension, although I would hope he would refuse it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. Seriously?

:wtf: You're obviously part of this problem, certainly not part of the solution. Again, :wtf:

[xmas74]

44. Most firefighters retire at a younger than average age.

A job that physical might be a bit hard on the average 65 or (what is starting to happen) 72 year old.

[pintobean]

12. He should be retired at 52?

He made the choice to retire early. If he had worked longer, his pension would be more.

[rucky]

15. 20 years in a physically demanding job

two neck injuries and herniated discs? bah! Get back to work!

[pintobean]

18. I have no problem with his choice.

Whining about a small pension check is something different.

[rucky]

24. he wasn't whining, he was stating a fact: it's not enough for him to live on

we don't know his situation, but apparently it warranted him taking another job. so what if he's earning more now?

[pintobean]

The whining was done in

post #7. Like I said, I have no problem with the choices he made. It appears that he chose the options that were best for his health and his wallet. Good for him.

[SlimJimmy]

21. I've had worse and I'm still working. That's why they make desks and chairs.

[readmoreoften]

22. Firefighters use desks and chairs at work. I had no idea.

:eyes:

[rucky]

25. He's still working, too.

And making more in the private sector.

Good for him and you.

[dionysus]

46. how long do you expect a 52 year old to haul around oxygen tanks and fire victims?

sounds liek the guy's practically crippled from it.

[pintobean]

53. Don't bother following the conversation for proper context

[Davis_X_Machina]

8. He's earinging $30,000 in retirement...

...and the rest is his salary from, you know, working.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ilsa]

49. Yeah, just what I want: a 64 year old firefighter trying to lift my 180 pound husband

and carry him out in a fire.

Just like i want a 65 year old nurse using a walker to climb on me and do my CPR? No thanks. These people shouldn't be doing these kinds of highly physical jobs at retirement age. They were given a plan: you are underpaid for a dangerous job, but you get to retire in dignity with a decent pension.

I'll feel sorry for him if he is being ripped off by the people he swore to help protect. His ability to work in a second career his nothing to do with it.

[Ilsa]

50. Try selling that logic to military retirees. Same difference. nt

[blueamy66]

56. I can't muster any sympathy for firefighters either.

They work 4 on, 3 off here in AZ.

Most have "side" jobs that they do on their 3 days off.

I dated 3 firemen back in the day and ALL 3 had 2 incomes.

They are pretty well off.

They choose their profession. Don't whine.

[librechik]

11. on Malloy last night he said What if we pay the teachers $3/hr?

Like babysitters. Pay for each child individually, (18.00 per child per day) Multiply by the number of kids in class, say 30. Say for 6 hours a day. (less than they work, but who is counting?) That's 540.00 a day. Multiply by 180 days a year, because they get summers off. That's $97,200 a year.

Yes, even at less than minimum wage, even in the most limited scenario, we are underpaying our teachers.

[MattSh]

36. Sorry, don't buy that...

There's a big difference between $3 an hour and $3 an hour times 30. $90 an hour.

To use the term "minimum wage" and close to a six figure salary in the same argument is about as twisted a logic as I've ever seen.

[nashville_brook]

38. i like that. a LOT.

[gratuitous]

19. What?! She's not living in a cardboard box? Overpaid!

Oh sure, just because she has "credentials" and has to keep up her "certificate" with supplemental "training", she thinks she's entitled to an extravagant "living" wage? Socialism! Oh, and my kid needs a little extra attention this year; can't she stay after for a couple of hours to provide some extra tutoring? I've got a Step Aerobics class I just can't miss.

[Rex]

34. And the sad thing is the DC Insiders think middle class makes 162k a year!

Will SOMEONE burst these idiots bubble? They are RUINING the country for the rest of us! Thanks.

[nashville_brook]

39. that comparison is OP-worthy.

internal inconsistency, much? the rich want people to believe that $167K is middle class, b/c that's THEIR income -- poor dears. but, they also want us to believe that teachers making $40K are overpaid. hmmm.

[DeadEyeDyck]

40. kicked

[tigereye]

47. it's not the money- they aren't overpaid (few Americans

are other than bankers and corporate raider-types)


It's control and a desire to destroy workers' power. Totally uncool.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. 50% of your salary is a good pension?

How sad is that??