Living it up on food stamps....

[ejpoeta]

Was I living it up on food stamps? You'd think so to hear all the talk about buying candy and marshmallow peeps with them. But when I had them, along with cash assistance, several years ago.... it was no picnic.

First you had to go sit for hours in the social services. Fill out the application form and provide proof of income, residency, citizenship. We also were required to prove we were looking for work. Bob and myself. IT didn't matter if it would cost me more to work because of daycare. I had to find a job too. So we started looking. And we went in to use our food stamps to get food.

Now, these weren't the EBT cards you see today. These were actual food stamps. I was very diligent in my purchases. Making sure we had things we needed to get us through the month. As i waited to have my items rung up I pulled out my book of food stamps. You could see the stares. You could see the judging of every item I had on the belt. I am not being paranoid here, people were judging everything I purchased. Right down to if it was generic or a name brand.

Having to apply for assistance is humiliating. But you bite the bullet and do it because you have to take care of your kids. We had one kid at the time. Then each time you go in to use your food stamps you get to see the ire in others eyes as you count out paper bill by paper bill. Because people will judge you. No matter what they will judge you. It didn't matter that there was nothing fancy on the belt. It didn't matter. Somehow I was taking something from them.

Now I hear people saying how people on food stamps are just buying candy and pop. Well, beyond the occasional ice cream on sale, there was no living it up on food stamps. For some reason though it seems to be something open to everyone's input. But you only get so much and it has to last a whole month. Somehow people on food stamps are too stupid to be able to decide what food they need to last through the month. OH!! but they might buy JUNK FOOD!!! so damned what. what they get has to last them a whole month. This idea that folks with food stamps are out there stocking up on chips and candy and pop is just a creation so some can feel better about treating them like they are nothing.

No I am not on food stamps today. We have a house and pay our taxes just like everyone else. But we are $300 over the limit for food stamps. And I say, I am a person. Just like everyone else. And people with food stamps are no different than everyone else. And they buy the same groceries as everyone else. So what if they buy some chips. Just like you and I do. They are not out there just buying crap. They may have a bag of chips, but they have the same groceries as everyone else. Why don't you quit worrying about what someone else is buying. They pay taxes too. Just because it isn't property taxes doesn't mean they don't pay taxes. It costs more to be poor than to not be poor. Through taxes, and just the cost of living.

[shraby]

1. Well said. Most people are one paycheck away from being

in that same situation. It would be really wonderful if they weren't necessary but that will never be. I believe Jesus said or someone said Judge not lest ye be judged..maybe it was one of the Supremes? There are people who need to remember that.

[Riftaxe]

3. We need to make it popular to fight poverty

again. That is the party i joined and has forgotten it's roots.

on edit, our leadership does not give a crap ATM about poverty, hell even the guy i voted for has foregone his pretty words on lobbyists in the white house

[ejpoeta]

9. it's sad to see someone who has lived it to seem to have turned his back on

that..... I know he has a lot on my plate, but it sure seems he has forgotten us.

[Riftaxe]

20. Anyone who would begrudge people

based on what they buy are pretty dim in my book. If people want to buy the "chemically scarey" products like soda just for subsistence, it would take a much meaner person then I to do deny them.

Hell, a soda for many people living in poverty is more calories then they would expect in a day. The fact that people are embarrassed to access programs meant to give them a basic substinence level is more a shame on us then them.

[bobbolink]

102. He never lived it.

But that shouldn't make the difference.

I've never been in a car wreck, either, but I can sure understand what it does to someone, the resulting nightmares, etc.

Empathy isn't about having been there..... it is about having a Human HEART. The Egyptians and Libyans are putting us to shame in that regard.

[tabasco]

151. You got any info on the social welfare programs in Libya?

Thanks.

[bobbolink]

176. You missed the point, which I'm sure was meant to be denigrating.

Obama was never "poor". He grew up comfortably.

As for your disconnected question about Libya: The POINT is that the people in Egypt and Libya have been very clear about looking out for eachh other

There were several tweets forwarded to me from Egypt about people reminding each other that they had to look out for the poor, and the disabled, etc.

180 degrees from the DUers who claim the right to judge what others EAT, for gawd's sake.

[lunasun]

267. I was wondering that too- were they talking about Obama?

stereotypes OMG if they were

[tabasco]

296. Yeah, Libyans obviously have more empathy than Americans

How rude of me to suggest otherwise.

Do you enjoy wearing a burka?

Despite a constitutional proclamation providing equality for women, customary Muslim restrictions still apply. Women are granted full legal rights, but few women work outside of the home, and those that do remain in low-paid positions. There is evidence to suggest that younger, urban women are gradually becoming more emancipated. Younger women in urban areas have largely discarded the veil, although in rural areas it is still widely used. Women still must obtain their husband's permission in order to leave the country. Violence against women remains a serious problem and is not discussed publicly.

Read more: Social development - Libya - problem http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Africa/Libya-SOCIAL-DEVELOPMENT.html#ixzz1F4ufpFzX

[SammyWinstonJack]

297. Obama lived it? When exactly was that.

:shrug:

[ejpoeta]

357. when he was a kid. in his book i believe.

[jtuck004]

22. +1 n/t

[AsahinaKimi]

25. Then you have people like Rush Limbaugh

calling people free loaders. I too have witnessed people staring at those with food stamps and making snide little comments behind their back, saying they were probably foreigners, and didn't deserve to get a free pass on food. Luckily, I have never heard this in San Francisco, but down in Santa Barbara, I heard it quite often at the Lucky's Super market.

[bobbolink]

108. That attitude is NOT limited to Rush. It exists right here on DU, and right here on this thread.

And it is really disgusting to behold.

[defendandprotect]

122. +1000% -- right wing propaganda teaches hatred for others ... we have to reverse it --

Direct the attention where it should be -- on elites who are stealing from us all!!

[Solly Mack]

2. K&R

[Gormy Cuss]

4. I really don't care if people getting SNAP benefits buy soda, cakes, ice cream or even steak.

If you're so broke that you qualify for food stamps chance are good that the grocery store list is the least of your worries.

I pay a lot of taxes and I worry more about the huge amount going down the rat hole of Bush's wars than I do about the piddling amount paying for food security programs.

[Riftaxe]

10. I agree 100% with you

and i will add to this, if they want to add drug checks as a prerequisite to any humanitarian program, let's start with the politicians!

[ejpoeta]

oh a big k and r to that! fucking politicians. a bunch of crooks.

there are a few decent ones but the majority of them are crooks!

[CrispyQ]

83. And the banksters who received billions in taxpayer bailouts.

Drug test those fuckers, too. And while we're at it, why not every private company CEO & BOD whose company has a government contract? Those contracts are paid for with our tax dollars. Test those fuckers, too.

[bobbolink]

104. Now you're talking!

:applause:

Have you written an LTTE to that effect? It deserves wide readership!

[backwoodsbob]

195. our production manager at our shop

once bragged to a buddy of mine that we all know smokes a little weed that he couldn't afford the high he was on one morning when he was coked out of his mind.

Lets start drug testing legislators and corporate execs

[Selatius]

14. Then, my friend, you have everything in proper perspective.

The US spends about 800 billion on waging war or preparing for war every year. In comparison, the US spent about 73 billion last year on food stamps. War is more costly than ensuring people get food.

[snappyturtle]

5. I don't know how you handled all of that. Food stamps provide good use

of tax money.....what better use than a helping hand to a fellow citizen. People never cease to amaze me in their lack of understanding....conscience, empathy, etc. Thanks for posting this!

[Riftaxe]

13. Programs such as food stamps

really are the only link keeping some families together. Those family values people who are against such programs really make me wonder.

[bobbolink]

109. Food stamps are also excellent stimulus money. For every federal dollar spent on Food stamps, $1.84

is returned to the local economy.

Yet, even Dems want to make big cuts.

[Newest Reality]

6. Thanks!

You don't "live it up" on the amount people get.

I would challenge a single adult to give it a shot if they don't believe it. Don't eat out at all and limit your food budget at the store to $200 for a month. There is a problem doing this experiment if you already have lots of food in the cupboards and fridge before you start because that's usually gone by the end of the month when you are getting by on that amount.

See how much you can "live it up" with that food budget. If you are more sedentary, you might find that you can get enough calories if you are creative and cook-up some tired-and-true staples. If you are very physically active though, your mileage may vary due to your caloric needs.

Rapidly rising prices and the tricky weight and size reductions of packages, (for the same price) just make the party so much more fun, too.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

55. +1

[comtec]

128. I could do it only because as a single person $200/mo is alot for food

AND, i know how to skimp, save, scratch, and cook.
I can make $200/mo go rather far if that's what i had for food for myself.
I also eat smaller portions when im in 'destitute' mode (which has happened more than im comfortable saying in my 35 years)

the problem is that my room mates don't seem to comprehend the smaller portions thing.

they make and eat enough food to last at least 3-4 days in 1-2!!!

HUGE pots of meat and hamburger helper... *shakes head* and that's brand name HH, not generic!
I really don't understand them. Only one of us is currently working (I'm searching all over, and having little luck). I tentatively add my food I buy to the community pot, but it feels like im throwing my money away when i do that.

better to just cook my own, smaller portion and make it last a day or two longer. My roomies are nice guys don't get me wrong but... wow their common sense on this stuff got broken along the way somewhere.

[leftstreet]

7. K&R

[Riftaxe]

8. Huge K&R here!

[cliffordu]

11. Well said. Anyone who thinks getting public assistance in this country

is a piece of cake with ice-cream on the side needs to go apply - go through the entire humiliating process.

Really. It is a devastating thing. Trust me.

It is being psychologically and sociologically strip searched and probed.

[Lucinda]

12. Thanks for sharing this.

I have absolutely no time for people who feel the need to tell others how to feed themselves or their families. Yes, I do wish some people made better choices for their children's meals, just as I wish some people wouldn't smoke in households with children, exposing everyone to secondhand smoke, but I recognize that it's their choice. Things are never as cut and dried as people would like to think they are.

[bobbolink]

110. I also wish people wouldn't speed and tailgate with children in the car.

As far as I'm concerned, that is much more child endangerment than letting a kid have a candy bar once in a while.

But we sure don't hear an outcry about THAT, do we? Maybe because many DUers engage in that kind of behavior themselves?

[EC]

15. A pack of cookies could be their only reward for

the week, since they have no money for a nice dinner out...who knows? I used to treat myself to a small bag of good cookies every Friday, just to make Friday feel special again.

[CrispyQ]

85. "...just to make Friday feel special again."

:hug:

There is an attitude in this country that if you need public assistance then you should live a miserly life with absolutely no fun or treats.
I'm so sick of the "I was able to pull myself up by my boot straps, they should too!" bullshit that most Americans have fallen for. We don't know what difficulties the other person has in their life. We can't begin to guess what physical or mental ailments they may suffer from, or if they lack a support system of family & friends or any damned thing at all.

People are so quick to judge others within the context of their own lives. Those that have it the cushiest, seem to be the worst culprits.

[ejpoeta]

94. I know I am lucky that I have family and we all help each other out.

We used to have communities. but now everyone hides in their house and only care about themselves. And there is that attitude.... Poor people shouldn't have cable or internet!! But when you are basically trapped in your house when you aren't working because you can't afford to do anything else.... maybe cable is all you have. We had directv because my husband worked for them and so we got basic service free. but he had to pay for his own gas and drove all over the place for work. I kid you not... he made $40k on paper, but after mileage and gas or work expenses it was $8k. tried to get food stamps and they insisted we made $40k. we were overdrafting every two weeks to make sure he had gas money for gas for work. and when the vehicle broke down he would be out of work for a week while he fixed it. Not sure how we got through that, but food stamps helped.

[Kweli4Real]

198. And most of those ...

"I was able to pull myself up by my boot straps, they should too!" folks are full of sh!t. The made it out with a lot of help from friends, family, or the benevolent, non-judgmental stranger.

I have a right-wing buddy who likes to tell the story about how he pulled himself and his wife off of public assistance and out of a single-wide in Washington State and into a just built million dollar home in Tucson, by going to college ...

AND, OH YEAH ... inheriting his father's electrical contracting company.

But he can't seem to understand why I laugh everytime he tells his rags to riches story. Go figure.

[blueamy66]

263. Just be happy to know

that he lives in hell on Earth....Tucson is a rathole. :-)

[Jmaxfie1]

264. I like the, "AND, OH YEAH ... inheriting his father's electrical contracting company." n/t

[xmas74]

16. I received them for my child after the lay-off.

I remember how happy I was to finally get them-around Easter-and was ready to plan our Easter dinner. I purchased a few things that were a bit more expensive than I usually would (but I had all the leftovers planned out for days after) and I purchased a couple of pieces of candy for the Easter basket. There was nothing that wasteful on the belt but the woman behind me in line made nasty comments the entire time, telling everyone behind her that "it must be nice to be able to buy that crap with MY MONEY".

I'll never forget that I felt bad for spending three dollars on Easter candy-a cheap chocolate bunny, a small pack of Peeps, and a small bag of jelly beans. I just didn't want my child to go without a basket on Easter.

[ejpoeta]

18. i am sorry you had to endure that. i have had people make comments

about my buying name brand items with my WIC check. People think they have a right.... they don't know anything about you but they think they can make judgements. I always say you pretty much have to be living in a cardboard box to qualify for assistance.... it isn't THEIR money.... we all pay taxes. I don't know why people think they are the only ones paying taxes. It makes me sad to think how selfish people have become.

[xmas74]

24. I already felt awful.

I had gone through a lay off, had to apply for unemployment which paid almost nothing, then had to jump through hoops to get the food stamps. I was made to feel as if it was my fault that I'd lost my job. Family Services was less than kind when I applied for food stamps and insurance for my child.

After all that I was so excited to get a card with $200.00 for food stamps. I knew how much it would help and then that horrible woman in line ruined what little joy I had in getting that stupid ham and Easter candy. The worst part was sitting across from her a week later while volunteering at my kid's school. We both had the same library schedule for the month.

[ejpoeta]

58. you almost wish people had to go through it themselves so they could learn some

perspective and compassion. but i wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[bobbolink]

112. You can't get assistance living in a cardboard box. You have to have an address.

[unapatriciated]

140. That idiot who made a judgment regarding name brands

doesn't know how WIC works. In most cases you are limited to buy certain name brands ONLY. It is set up that way. The Govt. makes deals with different manufactures and you have no choice but to buy their brand.
You are right it is all of our monies, you and everyone else pay for it. I would much rather feed our children than bomb children in other countries.

[msanthrope]

79. You know, your post made me change my mind about something. I owe an apology to you and others.

Previously, I'd posted about how I didn't think that food stamps should be used for 'taxable items' such as candy, soda, etc.

Some posters wrote back to remind me that some states tax foodstuffs like milk, etc...

So much for that.

But YOUR post reminded me of something else...we cannot know the circumstances of other families. We cannot know the day to day struggle, and other choices that families face. So we should not judge, particularly when, in the great scheme of things, we are talking about so little money that is *possibly* wasted.

The thought of you trying to keep a little normalcy for your daughter during a stressful time brings tears to my eyes, and I am ashamed that I made a judgment on others. I am sorry. I will try to be more compassionate.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It changed my mind.

[CrispyQ]

118. Good for you!

:hug:

My time at DU has made me a much more compassionate & less judgmental person. Reading other people's perspectives & experiences has really opened my heart & my mind.

[xmas74]

153. Food stamps shouldn't be used for only junk food

but it does allow for an extra at times when they are needed. For that year I was able to buy candy for an Easter basket. I was able to buy cookies for my child to take to school to celebrate her birthday. (Her school doesn't allow homemade treats but that's another story.) It allowed me to buy the ingredients to make her a birthday cake and to buy snacks to take to the fireworks display on the Fourth of July. It gave me a bit extra so I could hand out a piece of candy to trick or treaters and it helped me buy something for her stocking at Christmas. All in all about $30.00 was spent on something besides food-for the whole year. It also allowed us to buy seeds to plant in our backyard.

It looks like quite a bit on paper but in reality it's not much. Some could spend that in one trip to the local QuikTrip.

[Dorian Gray]

338. This is my favorite post

on DU in a long long time. :)

[CrispyQ]

86. "I just didn't want my child to go without a basket on Easter."

:hug:

The responses in this thread are heart breaking.

I worked in a grocery store for 10 years back in the 70s. Some of the other checkers I worked with were pretty bad, too, but the customers were the absolute worst. One young man in my line paid with food stamps. He had long hair, was dirty & obviously lived on the street & had a hard life. His purchases were meager, but when he paid with the stamps, the woman behind him made a comment about a long haired, lazy hippy living off her money. He turned & looked her straight in the eye & said, "I was good enough to serve in your VietNam war & take a head full of shrapnel. But now that I'm damaged goods, I'm not good enough to feed?" She at least showed enough grace to keep her mouth shut after that.

[bobbolink]

116. Oh, I LOVE his response! I hope she had the grace to be humiliated by her hateful shit!

Bless his heart... I really appreciate that he had the strength left to give her well-deserved hell!

:hug: for a vet with spine!

[ejpoeta]

130. wow!! good for that guy!!

[xmas74]

155. That was a great answer.

There will always be people who will play the system. I like to believe that they are few and far between.

I remember the day I applied for food stamps. I was shown to a cubicle and had a caseworker asked me why I was applying. When I informed her that I, like nearly 300 others, were part of a lay off. Instead of any kind of compassion she gave me a nasty look and made a comment about how I should have saved for a rainy day. When she left to make photocopies I started crying out of shame and humiliation. I felt that I was a piss poor mother who couldn't care for her child properly. I still remember how this felt as I am typing and it still brings tears.

Never again will I judge someone receiving assistance. I know how humiliating it can be to even apply.

[uppityperson]

159. I did also when went in to talk about their error and my pay back. She was quite rude at first, the

went out to make a copy, came in, caught me in tears and apologized for being rude. Said they had heard so many stories and so many people scamming that they got jaded and then she apologized.

Yes, there are some who scam, but not most by a long shot. "Never again will I judge someone receiving assistance. I know how humiliating it can be to even apply."

[xmas74]

163. It hurts.

It's a blow to your ego, your sense of pride.

The caseworker caught me trying to wipe away tears but she didn't say anything. It was a person in the cubicle next to me who heard me and leaned over. She offered me a tissue, looked at me and said "the first time is the worst. It gets easier but it's never good."

[unapatriciated]

138. That person is damed lucky she was not in my checkout line.

Her eggs and bread would have been on the bottom of her bag with the cans on top.
:evilgrin:

[xmas74]

156. I live in a small town.

I had on a sweatshirt of where I had worked. The lay off made big news and I know there was an increase in aid all over the town.

She was (and still is, for that matter) a horrible person. All she ever talks about is how her children are better than all the others and how much money they spent on something. I'm glad that I know exactly how she really is.

[uppityperson]

17. I bit the bullet and jumped through their hoops once. Got 2 months worth when was

jobless with a child living in housing. I got a notice about a month after they sent me the set of coupons saying they'd made a mistake and wanted them back. I went in the office to find out what this was about and yes, they made a mistake so I had to pay them back. At which point I was almost crying. If they'd not given them to me, I'd not have spent them. I'd have gone to the food bank, begged off people, whatever. And now I owed them $250.

The woman was nice, kept trying to say "it's all right" and I kept trying to tell her I was honest, told the truth on my application and no, it wasn't alright because I had no idea how I was going to pay them that money back. We agreed on $5/month forever.

Eventually I got a job and paid them back.

I very much appreciated being able to carefully buy enough food for a month, to have one less worry at that time. I really hated being in the humiliating position of begging from people who were so jaded about getting lied to. I really hated being in the position of sneaking the coupons to the teller so others wouldn't notice and judge me. And I really resented their approving me and taking it back a month later.

[ejpoeta]

21. you are already down and then you get penalized for THEIR mistake.

that had to make things even tougher!! Worse than just saying no i imagine. I am glad you got back on your feet though.

[The Flaming Red Head]

113. They did the same thing to me when I was pregnant with my son.

They approved my food stamps and I got one month’s worth and then they cut me off and said I needed to go back to the office and get re-approved. The only problem was that our car was over heating and it was a 30 mile drive to go back there, and we didn’t have gas money, or a phone and I was five months pregnant. We were lucky that we lived on the river and could fish , but we actually had to depend on what we could catch for our food for the day and that included gar, catfish, or perch. We eventually made it to town, but it still took a while to get approved again (back then it was 30 days) So they sent us to a church food bank and those little ladies saw that I was pregnant and brought me to the church kitchen, not the shelter food kitchen, but the rectory and they loaded us up with so much food and yeah there were cookies, bottles of soda, and everything in their pantry and the freezer. Chicken never tasted, so good and ground meat and mac and cheese were fine dining to us; I mean it was truly manna from heaven. I can’t drive by anyone with their hand out, now and not give them a couple of dollars, or what I have on me, and I don’t care how they spend it, and no one ever leaves my house hungry, I know I am a soft touch, but once you’ve been through it, you know desperation when you see it. I am grateful for every bite of food that I put in my mouth wherever it comes from.

[bobbolink]

117. I'm really glad you got that response. It restores your faith in humanity to be treated like that,

doesn't it?

Sadly, I can't imagine that happening today. The attitude is much more hateful.

[Zoeisright]

19. HUGE K&R!!!!!

I wish I could rec this a million times. People need to stop being so smug about the poor. Most of us are one paycheck away from needing food stamps.

[fizzgig]

23. i was struggling with this earlier this evening

my family got food assistance when i was younger and there might have been the odd bag of cookies, bag of chips or two-liter bottle of soda, but we never really had junk food. i collected unemployment for about 18 months and, yes, i'd buy beer and a pizza sometimes. my husband and i may not be poor (i don't think we even qualify for the food bank anymore), but we're pretty damn broke and i'd love even an extra 50 bucks for groceries so we could eat a bit better.

what bothers me is when it's not just a bag of chips and a six pack of soda, it's when i see what i saw tonight: a woman with two young children in tow buying four six packs of soda - not cans, either, 24 ounce bottles - with the ebt card. i could make my husband and i at least two healthy meals with what she spent on soda. no one needs that much soda and i'd be just as grossed out as if they'd paid with cash, but that money is supposed to be used to buy food and, last i checked, soda has no nutritional value.

but i don't advocate we ban buying junk food with food assistance, just cap it. a couple of bags of chips, a couple six packs of 12 oz cans of soda.

i wonder if there is any nutritional counselling given as part of the process. if there's not, i think there should be.

eta: i know this is by no means the norm, just an isolated observation.

[ejpoeta]

59. first of all, do you know this person? probably not. maybe that is for work.

maybe they take pop to work. It sounds more like sour grapes.... look what they are getting when i am struggling. Yes, I myself have found myself judging like that... but then I tell myself to stop it. I don't know anything about these people. Most of them buy smartly. and i am not going to fault someone for buying pop. they were probably on sale.

[CrispyQ]

87. If pop is their only treat, they deserve it.

I gave a guy standing by the side of the road with a sign asking for food or money a five. A co-worker said, with such nastiness, "He's just going to spend it on booze!" I replied, "I wouldn't blame him. I'd need a stiff drink too, if I stood out there all day, absorbing all that judgmentalism." People need to be put in their place when the make nasty comments.

I wasn't aware that food stamps are now issued on a payment card. Good!

[ejpoeta]

90. I am so glad they are now on a card. so they can use it just like an atm card.

[blueamy66]

265. Um, the EBT card shouldn't be used

to buy ANYTHING for "work".

It's to provide food for the family.

And everyone knows when the big ARIZONA is at the top of the card, it's food stamps.

Hey, I'm all for public assistance, but many abuse the system and it hurts.

And I am the first to give the homeless guy on the offramp of the freeway a few bucks...go buy a beer buddy....

Something has to give....

My fiance and I are lucky to have jobs. But I clip coupons like crazy and shop the sales. My fiance pays a crazy amount of child support, so even tho we have good jobs, we count our pennies. I have nieces and nephews and greats who have no Grandma and Grandpa on our side, so I represent...all of my extra $ goes to them...

Here's the thing...why do people that are on public assistance have more kids? Why?

[Gormy Cuss]

103. Since you know this isn't the norm, why do you think there should be caps and nutrition counseling?

Would either of those regulations be worth the cost of implementation if this isn't typical behavior of recipients? Think about it.

[bobbolink]

120. I was wondering that too, with the other threads, just how much all this policing would cost.

Interesting that people never consider THAT part of their need for power and control.

[bobbolink]

132. There is a food bank in a town north of here and there is a big sign that you have to take a MONEY

COUNSELING class in order to get food! The arrogance is truly amazing.

I would have a good laugh if some of the towns people who want those kinds of power and control stigmas end up losing their job or something that requires they have to get food from the food bank, and are faced with the humiliation they foisted onto others!!

Yeah, I would laugh.

[Gormy Cuss]

241. I'm sure that cuts down on the client load.

Maybe that's the point. Put up enough barriers and people will just stop showing up.

[bobbolink]

119. Not only not the norm, but you have NO IDEA the context.

Maybe they were having a small party?

Maybe they were going to a pot-luck, and had been asked to bring soda?

You have no way of knowing the circumstances.

"Judge not that ye be not judged."

[unapatriciated]

178. those were my thoughts too.

We don't know why and frankly it is not our business.
My family qualified for foods stamps once back in the late 70's.
My husband had just got out of the military, home from Vietnam and no jobs to be found.
We had not had meat in over a month and the first thing I bought was a a prime roast, from the comments behind me you would have thought I had stolen it out of their refrigerator.
Because of that experience and the humiliation the system puts you through I never applied for state help again.
There were many times over the years after I was divorced that we probably qualified and could have used the help.
So I say to anyone reading this thread, who might feel the need to judge, don't. Your comments hurt not just emotionally but might prevent a mother from getting the help her children need and deserve.

[bobbolink]

187. EXCELLENT! Please consider making this an OP of its own!

People need to stop and do some serious thinking about how they are judging.

It is certainly not helping the Dem party, nor is it becoming to DU.

What you have said needs further readership... even an LTTE??

Please....? :hi:

[blueamy66]

273. But it is my business.

My tax dollars go to pay for public assistance.

If I have to watch what I buy, shouldn't those on the dole have to do so as well?

[LeftishBrit]

388. How do you know they are not watching what they buy?

Maybe that's the one treat they're allowing themselves and are going without all kinds of things that you would treat as necessities.

If they really don't watch what they buy, then their food stamps/dole won't last that long.

[Rowdyboy]

26. Everyone in America should be forced to eat off nothing but food stamps for 3 months....

I think the lesson would stick.

[Maru Kitteh]

33. Amen Rowdy. That's the damn truth right there.

:hug:

[Rowdyboy]

37. Several Democratic state representatives out west (Washington or Oregon) actually

lived off food stamps for a month several years ago and wrote stories for local newspapers. The main point was that all anyone on food stamps could possibly afford were cheap fillers like rice, potatoes, pasta and bread. Lean cuts of meat are expensive and fresh vegetables and fruits are totally out of the question. The food children need to grow is too expensive for any parent on food stamps to dream of buying.

I grew up in a poor family but back then we had aunts and uncles with farms so we had fresh vegetables etc. Sadly, those days are mostly gone.

[Maru Kitteh]

40. My folks "rented" me out to the neighbors to pick crops in exchange for fresh vegetables.

I don't feel badly about it. I had a great time. We socialized and told stories and I learned a LOT. It was actually pretty fun most of the time.

[bobbolink]

127. Yes, I read about it and applauded it at the time.

Sadly, it doesn't seem that their experience affected some of DUers hard-nosed control freaks.

[bobbolink]

121. I'm thinking everyone should be homeless for a year.

[defendandprotect]

124. +1000% -- nothing like walking in someone else's shoes ....

[bobbolink]

126. I'd love to see some of the smugness gradually turn to desperation.

And I'm thinking specifically of two women connected with a synagogue who have treated me unbelievably ugly. (All in the name of serving god, I suppose).

And germane to our previous conversation, these are two stalwart feminists...... they are all about women running things.

I contend that is NOT feminism, and in fact, is a slander of feminism.

I would LOVE to see them have to swallow some of the shit they have given out to me. Some people only learn by experience, sadly and these two deserve it.

[blueamy66]

276. That doens't make sense.

Why?

[blueamy66]

268. I could do it.

[Forkboy]

305. I hope you never have to try, though you could use the eye opener.

[Overseas]

27. K&R! //nt

[elocs]

28. Since I have no income I am getting the max of food stamps.

I found it fairly simple to apply for them and had a very short wait for my appointment in social services. I have not experienced any looks or comments or anything else when I use them and I buy whatever I please.

[Justitia]

30. You must not live in TX. They are impossible to get here. -eom

[lildreamer316]

69. Me either.

My husband works and I stay home; we get a fairly large amount for us and our one child. I am able to get good, healthy stuff with it and yes, every now and then I buy *A* bottle of soda(husband likes it; I keep it for guests/babysitter too) and chips (again, guests and husband). Never had any problems at checkout; but sometimes I do voice how grateful I am to have them. Just in case.

[bobbolink]

136. Then I hope you are grateful for your good fortune.

In colorado, the system is so backed up that people aren't getting assistance for MONTHS.

How would you like that?

[elocs]

161. Yes, I have the good fortune to live in WI where Walker is my governor,

but our public employees are very efficient in what they do.

[bobbolink]

164. So some understanding and empathy for those not so fortunate is called for.

[Starry Messenger]

29. k&r

Foodie peckersniffs need to keep out of people's business. There is so much wealth in this country, the food stamp program should be expanded much more than it is. I started buying better food when I had more money to do so. It isn't rocket science.

[Pithlet]

201. Yep.

Foodie peckersniffs. That's the best descriptor I've ever seen on DU.

[Justitia]

31. I'd rather buy HoHos every day for a family of 4, than pay to drop a bomb on somebody's house. -nt

[Maru Kitteh]

34. and whiskey and ciggs for that matter! How much have we paid for these USELESS wars?

[hunter]

355. Or at least beer & wine...

Beer and wine instead of guns and bombs?

It sounds almost Christian!

[bobbolink]

137. Excellent thought, and I hope you say that to the critics.

To me, people who want to police what people buy on food stamps to "change" them are like attacking and occupying a country to "democratize" them.

[coalition_unwilling]

32. A few days ago, I happened to get in a checkout line behind

a customer who was purchasing various food items using paper vouchers. God, what a poorly designed social welfare program this is. (ON EDIT: I think this may have been the so-called WIC program.)

First of all, the vouchers only covered specific brands of items. Apparently, Ralphs didn't label their offerings properly, so the customer had brought several items to the register that were not covered.

Second, each of these vouchers (about the size of a half-sheet of paper) required the cashier to write by hand some data on each. Ralphs had not trained its cashiers well on what to write and had to ask for assistance with one of the senior cashiers on each item.

The result? Some 10 items (no more than $20-30 worth of food) created a 30-minute wait up in the line.

As the wait in the line continued on and on, I first became enraged at the customer for having a fancy hairdo, wearing fancy designer jeans and still using this welfare program to pay for her groceries but not selected items that were covered. Then, as the cashier revealed her ineptitude, I felt myself grow enraged at the clerk for her incompetence. Only after I had left the store did I realize that the real fault lay with the management of Ralphs not training its employees better and with a culture that seeks to simultaneously subsidize agriculture but stigmatize the poor at the same time.

I still think the woman buying the groceries needed to do some serious soul-searching. I know her hairstyle had to have set her back a healthy sum. And those Ralph Lauren duds she sported also did not come cheap. But without knowing her circumstances, I could not really judge her. But I know a dud of a social welfare program when it stares me in the face.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadine_mn]

38. I have been a cashier when someone has WIC checks and the system is a mess for women

they are a pain in the ass - because you can only buy certain brands of cereal etc, and as a cashier it was our job to make sure that the cereals qualified or juice or whatever. This makes sense because the juice had to be 100% juice and some cereals are just total crap nutritionally, but for a woman (esp if English is not their first language) trying to navigate to make sure you get everything right is confusing. Secondly, you had to buy everything at once so if your WIC check was for 4 gallons of milk, you couldn't spread that over a month and get milk weekly - you had to get it all at once with your one check. Same with the formula and baby food.

Most people who need WIC checks may also be reliant on public transportation - ever try to get on a bus w/ a case of formula and 4 gallons of milk? So many would wait to use all their checks at once (which would sometimes mean ringing up 4 separate orders - one for each check) and then have to take a cab home because they didn't have a car or friends/family and the bus was just not feasible.


What idiots who mutter under their breath about women who receive WIC checks don't know is that it is a whole program - with nutrition and health classes, not just a free check for milk and peanut butter.

[coalition_unwilling]

39. Yeah, that particular program seemed designed to humiliate

its recipients and enrage those forced to wait while all the chits and vouchers were filled out.

Makes McGovern's proposal for a Guaranteed Annual Income (ca. 1972) seem all the more rational. The hoops that people are made to jump through and the scorn and humiliation they must endure seem to have no place in a modern society.

[blueamy66]

274. What is your point?

My niece uses WIC. She knows exactly what she can buy.

????

[nadine_mn]

286. calm down - I am not slamming WIC users - sheesh

did you read my post or are you just looking for a fight?

I think the WIC makes it unreasonably difficult for the user - you have to announce that you are using WIC checks, divvy up orders, wait for the cashier to double check everything, buy everything at once etc etc. The EBT cards for food stamps make it much easier on the user - I wish they could do something similar for WIC

I do not know your niece and never said she didn't know what to buy. I do know women who have had a hard time figuring out what to buy (many of these women are immigrants).

[blueamy66]

292. I apologize.

I agree. The rules are very stringent. But if one does their homework, WIC can work pretty smoothly.

Again, I apologize.

[ejpoeta]

381. it's tough to figure it out... i can stand there in the cereal aisle for like a half an hour

trying to find the right combination of allowable foods with the right amounts to come to the amount i need. so i tend to buy the same thing every time which happen to be name brands and people glare. go through that with juice too. i went to tops which marks what is WIC acceptable which can be helpful at times, but the last time i went in there they had a 28oz juice and right next to it 26oz.... you know that trick they like to use where the bottle looks the same except a little indent in the bottom to make there be no noticeable difference. i had looked and saw the 28oz and grabbed it only to get chewed out by the cashier because i had grabbed the 26oz one by mistake. so then there was the waiting while the person went and got the right one. uggh!! I get to the point where i try to avoid using them at all unless i have to.

[Lyric]

41. Another perspective on your experience.

I get Food Stamps, and used to get WIC. Not long ago, I was paying for my groceries and since the magnetic strip on my EBT card is messed up and it won't scan, I have to tell the cashier out loud that it's a Food Stamp purchase and let her key in the card number manually. I had my son with me, and two women (who were about three customers behind me in line) heard me say "Food Stamps". One of them spoke to other other loudly (obviously I was meant to hear) "I sure wish that *I* could afford to buy my kid brand-name clothes. Must be nice. But I WORK for my money, so I guess that's the difference, huh?" My son was dressed in jeans, a t-shirt, and an "Old Navy" brand hooded jacket.

I didn't confront her at the time because I had my son with me, and I didn't want HIM to think that he'd done something wrong. Thankfully, he either didn't hear her or didn't connect her words to us. But if I'd have had the time, I'd have told her that the only reason my son has a few name-brand clothes (and we're not talking Calvin Klein here--just Old Navy) is because a dear friend of mine--a former prominent DU'er, actually--found out that he needed school clothes and bought them for him by mail. She was kind enough to want him to have a few things that were "nice", so he wouldn't stick out so much in school. She got a good deal at Old Navy's online store, and that was that. I didn't buy them--she did. And I admire her more than just about any other person in the world, because she does things like that for other people ALL THE TIME. It's just the kind of person she is. It never occurs to her to NOT help. It never occurs to her to treat the less-fortunate as "lesser". If I were ever to manage to believe in a God, it would be whatever SHE believes in, because she's the closest thing to "The Faithful Ideal" that I have ever personally seen.

But back to my original point--quite often, when you see low-income people wearing things or using things that look "too nice" for them, stop and consider these alternatives to the "She bought expensive clothes while on Food Stamps!" assumption:

--They might have been gifts, just like my son's nice things were. Even poor people can sometimes fortunate enough to have better-off friends, and sometimes those friends can be compassionate enough to spend their own hard-earned money to make their poor friend feel special and loved.

--They might have been a very lucky secondhand purchase. Sometimes well-off people who buy things and either outgrow them quickly or find that they've gotten the wrong size will just donate those new (or nearly-new) items to a thrift store and go buy new ones. You don't get lucky enough to find that kind of deal often, but it DOES happen. I got a pair of Birkenstock-brand sandals that were hardly worn at all that way when I was 15. The retail price would have been $100 or more, but I got them for $5.

--They might be clever fakes. When I was a kid, lots of poor Moms would search the Salvation Army bins for wrong-size or well-worn name-brand jeans with prominent logos (like the "Guess" brand jeans, with those triangle logos), then cut off the logo and sew it onto the back pocket of a cheap pair of jeans in order to help their kids avoid the "poor" label. A current college friend of mine took a pair of $5 sunglasses and carefully glued on rhinestones in a perfect imitation of the "DG" (Dolce & Gabbana) logo--so far as we know, nobody ever looked closely enough at them to catch on. You'd be amazed at how easy it is to make it LOOK like your things are expensive when they really aren't.

Our world would be a kinder, better place if we'd all stop assuming the worst about each other all the time. Give people the benefit of the doubt. If there's a kinder potential explanation for something, assume THAT rather than the worst. If we could all do that, we'd change the world.

[coalition_unwilling]

43. I'm with you. I was just frustrated that day b/c I got sucked into what looked

like a short line only to find it turn into the line from hell, not b/c of the customer but b/c Ralphs doesn't train its cashiers on how to do the WIC thing or label its shelves clearly so people know what does and doesn't qualify.

When my good sense re-asserted itself I realized that I had no idea what that woman's circumstances were. All I knew was that the WIC program and Ralphs administration of it seemed designed to alienate the very people responsible for paying for it (taxpayers).

[Maru Kitteh]

51. What do you do from here?

You don't get to repaint yourself in less damning tones. Your words were clear.

"I still think the woman buying the groceries needed to do some serious soul-searching. I know her hairstyle had to have set her back a healthy sum. And those Ralph Lauren duds she sported also did not come cheap."

The more telling thing, character wise, is what you do from here. Facing our own fuck-ups, especially the ones that reveal our prejudices, is absolutely one of the hardest of tasks we face.

Are you up to it?

[Mimosa]

278. Some women (not me) are excellent at styling their hair

I might have seen well coloured well styled hair and had no thought at all. The woman might have a relative who's a stylist or be an out of work stylist. And as for good looking clothes, I've always been a genius at buying the good stuff in classic styles very cheaply and taking good care of my clothing.

And i have no spare money now. But I look good as I can! *grr to the judgmental!*

[bobbolink]

144. YEs, it is designed to alienate taxpayers. It works.

[nadine_mn]

45. ooh I like the idea of label switching

You are right - and I am sorry you that experience of rudeness. Man I hate that shit. Good for you for taking the highroad. I think I would have gone off on that woman (which is why I take meds).

I mentioned in another thread - before I saw your well written response - that the woman could have recieved teh items as gifts or bought them at TJ Maxx, and Old Navy stuff can be pretty darn cheap - them Christmas sales are crazy.

But it goes to the bigger point - that people who receive assistance need to be groveling, in worn out clothes, and humiliated for no reason in order for some people to feel satisfied.

I mentioned I worked as a cashier at a grocery store - some women would come in late at night just to avoid ass hats like you described.


I wish I could reach out and give you a big hug :hug:

[Lyric]

50. Thank you. A funny little aside about clothes:

I remember the first time I had to apply for Food Stamps as an adult. I went in to the interview, and got wait-listed until the next day because I was inexperienced and got there late, and the lines were long. However, before I left, I heard two of the social workers commenting about how one of the women there "sure doesn't dress like she needs help." When I came back the next day, instead of wearing my nicest clothes I wore my oldest, most raggedy t-shirt and a pair of sweats. I was desperate, and I was willing to "look the part" if that's what it took to get food for my kid.

I go back into the interview room, and the lady behind the computer takes one look at me and starts in on a lecture about how I'd "never get a job" looking like THAT, and how I should be ashamed of "not taking care of myself." I managed to hold it in, but man, the irony was so thick that it took every bit of stamina (and reminding myself to be HUMBLE and CONTRITE) in order to choke back the laughter.

I swear, sometimes you really CAN'T win.

*shakes head*

[ejpoeta]

61. once i went in to sign up for HEAP. we had recently moved from a different county.

where we had had food stamps et all at one point. All I was signing up for was HEAP. Well I went through the whole thing and was told I should try to sign up for everything. I said no thank you we were only trying to sign up for the HEAP right now. My boyfriend and I were not married at the time. We hadn't been married and it had never been a problem before as we shared a child. No one had ever said anything about it before. Well the lady comes out and tells me how we couldn't do it I can't remember her reasoning and then goes on about the electric bill and how he's never going to marry me. I felt as tiny as an ant at that moment. I held the tears until I left the building and got to my car. I called Bob in tears about what the woman said to me. He demanded to know the number. I hesitated giving it to him because he can yell. But i did end up giving it to him and he gave them hell. I never wanted to go back there but he insisted as he had to go to work (which was where he was when I had gone in to apply in the first place). I got the red carpet treatment and an apology from the lady. But I was mortified and always shook a little when I went in there in the future. We hadn't lied on the application. I put down his income and that we all lived together. We had been together for years. It was awaful.

[bobbolink]

146. That is exactly the Catch-22, and once again, I hope you make this its own thread.

You have described excellently the impossible conundrum that poor people deal with on a daily basis... there is truly no way to win.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

56. Also, there are ppl (like me)

who have really nice stuff from when they were employed. When shopping wasn't a "do i have enough money to cover this>

i have oakley sunglasses, apple computers. kindle book collection, etc... 2 north face backpacks, etc.

haha. can't afford any of that now. But I do have it, and wear things from "before." Why shouldn't i?

to people (not here) who look at me all you want... think what you want... i'm sorry. It's all mine. And why should these luxuries sit in my closet "just because?"

Sigh.

-Jamie

[Capitalocracy]

145. Now that you are poor you must sell all those items!

Even if they will fail to bring in 5% of their original worth! You are required to sell them!

(just in case it's not obvious) :sarcasm:

[bobbolink]

139. What you have said deserves a thread all its own!

I would add one thing... there are also some organizations that give women clothes and hairdos for job-hunting, etc. I'm sure there are also other possibilities.

It is bad enough that this attitude exists at all in this country,.....other countries are a lot more caring of their people.

However, what is really sad is that this attitude exists among so many DUers. Tragic, really.

I hope you will take what you have written and give it wider exposure. Some wont' hear no matter what, but some will.

[tpsbmam]

227. Bingo. First of all, I LOVE your last paragraph! And second, I was just thinking

the same thing about clothes. In addition to all of the things you listed, families also pass clothes around. Kids grow out of clothes so quickly, clothes that have gotten to small for all the kids in the family often get passed on to other families -- friends, friends of friends, work colleagues, etc. I worked in one hospital where the staff were pretty close, including the physicians, nurses, secretarial staff, etc. The doctors passed some pretty damn nice clothes to the nurses, the CNAs, etc etc. I don't give a rats ass about labels on clothes but have frequently ended up with a name brand something-or-other shopping at Marshalls or TJMaxx. People are fools. Glad your son didn't hear the nasty witch.

[JVS]

44. Rough time among the peons, eh?

:thumbsdown:

[coalition_unwilling]

78. Your drive-by swipe serves only to inhibit conversation and does

nothing to advance the discussion or people's understanding.

Welcome to my Ignore list.

[Maru Kitteh]

52. How the hell do you know she didn't do her own hair and buy her clothes second hand?

You don't. You didn't. You just chose to judge her.

[ejpoeta]

60. yep. that would be WIC. they have specific items on each.

I try to use only a couple at a time and always feel bad for anyone behind me. I wish they had a better system. The one day I went in I had three I had to use by that day. One was $6 in fruit/veggies. They changed it recently so you could go over and just pay the rest. Well the lady didn't push the button beforehand that would allow you to do that and then went into this whole thing about how she was from another store and at that store they don't allow you to use your atm card to pay the difference and ended up just telling me oh well i guess i'll just have to eat it. I went over to the customer service desk and explained the situation to them. there was nothing they could do at that point for me to pay the difference and said it was a training issue with the person.

another lady, fwiw, came in behind me after a couple minutes and said that cashier had made remarks about her 7 year old. yech.

BTW.... WIC is there to provide things like milk, cheese, cereal...... it's not so much a 'welfare' program as it is a nutrition program. and you don't know anything about that lady. she might have a friend who does hair or got some special groupon deal. and as for ralph lauren duds..... you know you can find that stuff at the good will with tags on it sometimes.... or a really great deal. i had a friend once who berated me because i bought Edy's ice cream for her son's birthday.... oh must be nice to buy expensive ice cream!! well, i never buy anything unless it is on sale, but it still wasn't anyone's business. as it is not YOUR business what this woman wears or her hairstyle.

[coalition_unwilling]

73. I seem to have touched a nerve and that was never my intention, I

only wanted to point out that the way this WIC program worked seemed designed to humiliate the recipient, annoy customers like me and several others who were held up in line for a lengthy time and waste a lot of Ralphs' staff time b/c of its poor training of its cashiers.

In retrospect, I can see that my 'judgments' about this woman were coming from my frustration at having to wait in line which was most definitely not her fault.

Is it my imagination or is the WIC program manifesting good intentions but horrible execution? No one I know is opposed to good nutrition for women or their children and no one I know favors humiliating less well off in society. But most people I know oppose poorly run programs. We want social aid delivered efficiently and without humiliation to its recipients. WIC seems to do neither.

[defendandprotect]

125. Glad you're rethinking this ....

I still think the woman buying the groceries needed to do some serious soul-searching. I know her hairstyle had to have set her back a healthy sum. And those Ralph Lauren duds she sported also did not come cheap. But without knowing her circumstances, I could not really judge her.

Maybe she works at a beauty salon?

And I frequently buy Lauren articles at about a quarter of their original price -- and less.

And, if you wait til they hit the outlets -- if you're lucky -- even less than that!

[bobbolink]

142. These "programs" are intentionally set up to humiliate people and to anger onlookers so as

to protest the very existence of the programs.

It worked on you.

[coalition_unwilling]

180. Only momentarily. As soon as I was through the checkout line, my

good sense reasserted itself. But I do think this WIC program seriously wastes people's time, while not begrudging the nutritional assistance it provides. The cashier was really getting frustrated with the minutiae of all the paperwork, not to mention the line of customers at the checkout belt. But I really think the major portion of the blame goes to Ralphs for not clearly labelling its shelves and for not better training its new cashiers in how to handle the WIC stuff expeditiously. Several DUers have pointed out that WIC is a complicated mess for customers and employees. Which just brings me back to my original point.

[bobbolink]

186. So, your "good sense" came back. Do you really think there weren't a lot of people who

went on to complain?

Do you think this didn't influence a lot of people who now denigrate the people receiving the assistance?

This is done on PURPOSE.... humiliating recipients, and inconveniencing other customers. It is well-planned for that.

And, don't forget, WIC is one of the programs scheduled for CUTS.

[coalition_unwilling]

197. Can't speak for others in the line other than the gentleman right

behind me. We both exclaimed over how laborious the whole process seemed, with each paper coupon (chit?) having to be filled out by the cashier by hand. It was a crazy vignette made worse by the fact that the cashier did not know how to fill out the coupons and the customer had brought some of the wrong items to the counter.

I actually advocate a Guaranteed Annual Income (McGovern's proposal from 1972) as a way of creating a safety net for all citizens akin to the one Social Security currently provides (or attempts to provide) for senior citizens.

Based on what a few DUers have written about WIC, I believe its intentions were great (nutrition education and so on). But the actual operation of the program leaves quite a bit to be desired -- I suppose I would say it should be eliminated and its funds transferred to the Food Stamp program whose benis in California are now handled through debit cards (I think) or, better yet, the Guaranteed Annual Income program yet to be enacted.

[bobbolink]

199. You are certainly correct about the Guaranteed Annual Income (which was Nixon before that!)

and if Dems were actually willing to work for something like that, people like me wouldn't be homeless. However, there just isn't enough concern, as you can see from threads like this. Better some of us should suffer.

My point was that it IS set up to irritate voters, and cause shutdowns.

[CrispyQ]

316. I remember being stunned when I read that Nixon advocated that!

:wow:

It's a fantastic idea. Yeah, there would be some kinks to work out, but the payoff to our society would be incalculable in terms of goodwill. Oops, my bad. We are not a culture of community & people, we are about individuals & things. :cry: & :banghead:

[bobbolink]

319. I have seen too much greediness and selfishness among those who call

themselves "progressives" to even spend any time thinking about what could be possible.

When "progressives" can't even be bothered to protest cuts to heating for poor people and cuts to low-income housing, we have to face the fact that we will die, and it doesn't matter.

Nixon was actually much more of a liberal that what passes for liberalism today. :cry:

[PADemD]

63. She may have purchased her Ralph Lauren clothes at a thrift shop.

Out of necessity, my sister shops at a thrift shop all the time. She purchased a winter coat for her daughter for $0.25.

[ejpoeta]

67. i take my kids to good will for school clothes first and then we go to the

regular stores to fill it out. i will admit a couple years ago when people on food stamps got $200 for each kid for school supplies I was feeling upset because I have to buy clothes at good will. There was outrage at this so much so that the local station had to specify that no one getting the $200 would be getting the stuff they collected. I had to re examine why I was so upset about someone getting school supplies. the argument was that people could just take that money and use it for anything. While they could have been smarter about how they did it, not sure how, I am pretty sure the bulk of people weren't out buying flat screen tvs with money to clothe their kids and get school supplies. people who are poor enough to qualify for food stamps are probably going to be buying school supplies and if they happen to have anything left over.... then they will probably use it for necessities. I was jealous because I didn't get help buying school supplies. IT was that simple. And if I was making the $200 less so i would qualify I would have been glad to get that help. We all struggle with our own demons here.... myself included. But the key is to look behind that anger and see what it really is..... usually fear i suppose or jealousy. I am not jealous of someone on food stamps!! I know how much I spend to get my kids ready for school and that is with smart shopping and going to thrift stores.... I am also lucky to have siblings who can pass down coats and shoes and things.

[xmas74]

219. I've been on

www.newdressaday.com quite a bit lately and have found some good ideas about how to repurpose thrift stores clothes. My daughter and I are trying a few out over spring break.

[coalition_unwilling]

75. That is quite possible. There is a Ross Dress4Less in the same

shopping complex (although I don't think you can score clothing there for $0.25). I buy a lot of my clothes there, come to think of it, but I tend towards Levis.

[lildreamer316]

70. Actually, I just realized something about the Ralph Lauren...

you know you can get that kind of label VERY cheap at Ross or TJMaxx and etc; right? I've got a couple of pieces of that for husband that way. I bet that may be where those were from.

We are on EBT too, btw. :)

[coalition_unwilling]

76. Funny you should mention this. There is a Ross in this same

shopping complex.

[Mnemosyne]

74. Ever shopped for clothes at Goodwill, the S Army, used clothing store?

You can find expensive name brands at times extremely cheap. And how do you know she doesn't have a friend that can do hair?

Not a fair judgment of the woman, imho.

The cashier may have been in training. I was a clerk at one point and those WIC papers were a nightmare until you gain experience working with them.

Just saying...

[coalition_unwilling]

77. Fair enough. Based on the comments of many DUers, I now think

my 'judgment' of her, such as it was, came from my frustration at having to wait in line while she and the cashier worked through the WIC stuff.

What I was really getting at (or trying to somewhat lamely, I guess) is that the WIC program seemed poorly designed. Not only does it set up conditions for its recipients to be humiliated, it also wastes a lot of time from other customers and from staff.

[Mnemosyne]

154. I do agree that WIC is very poorly designed, as are many 'social service' programs.

They are designed by the wealthy or at least the 'middle-class' and they have no clue about what anyone needs to survive. And for some reason they have never bothered to ask the recipients if the programs help in any truly useful way or how to improve them, at least that has been my prior experience with social services. If you are poor, most everyone in SS's assumes you would be greedy and dishonest given the chance. It's simple projection, imho.

I appreciate your willingness to reconsider your view. Thank you for that, it matters. :hug:

I understand your frustration these days though, my patience has grown very short in the last ten years. And my tolerance for bullshit, of any kind, is long gone since hitting 50 a few years ago. :evilgrin::hi:

[blogslut]

239. Our WIC program was awesome!

It may not be so awesome anymore since we were on it 20 years ago. However, it was an all-day affair and this was how it went:

1. Take the bus to the county health department to get the WIC card - bring child.

2. Sign in - proof of ID and all that.

3. Well Child physical - if shots were needed, shots were given - no charge.

4. Parents are separated from children - The children were taken to an activity room to do fun crafty things and be coached in reading and math.

5. Parents are taken to a cooking class to show them how to prepare nutritious meals with the foodstuffs provided by the WIC program. Q & A session followed.

6. Parents line up and receive their WIC cards.

7. Parents and children are reunited.

8. Take the bus and go home.

Mind you, there were drawbacks but people staring at me in the checkout line was not one of them.

As for your other comment about the checkout line, I worked in the service industry for decades. I've done more than my share of cashiering. In my opinion, people who get riled up about the extra seconds taken by customers in a checkout line are wasting something far more precious than time.

[Heidi]

106. You "couldn't really judge her"???? Why so modest?

By the tone of your post, you're some sort of ninja over-achiever when it comes to judging others. Congratulations.

[coalition_unwilling]

183. Well, when I took the Meyers Briggs personality profile, I scored

strongly on the "judgmental" pole :) But I'm actually a Ninja under achiever in real life, except when it comes to protesting against Bush and Cheney and before them Bush Sr and before him Reagan. Seems like I've spent a good 1/2 my adult life protesting against Republicans.

Edited for typos

[bobbolink]

131. Do you think there is any chance her "duds" came from a thrift store?

Are you aware there are organizations that actually give women hair dos and clothes for job-seeking?

Can you think of any other possibilities?

"Judge not that ye be not judged."

[lunasun]

224. I was complaining once at work about $$ trouble

and some coworker said "maybe you shouldn't buy $150.00 shoes then"....I had bought them for $3 at a 2nd hand store in my hood and had no idea that they were something coveted by young white chicks who knew them by sight!!

Neither did the old lady that prices them at the store either I guess..
...I have Ralph Laurens jeans I bought for $4 from a church sale...
...people > you donate nice clothes and know your brands do you not think that someone else is going to wear them that are not in your same class??? I have no idea how much those jeans cost Because I Do Not Shop At Stores that carry them.
They seem sturdy, my size and had no stains= my priority : not the name some may seek or status desired!!

[uppityperson]

228. I'd be tempted to tell them "OK, buy them from me", I'll give you a deal, only $100!

Seriously, people are rude, judgmental when they have no clue. Gifts, garage sales, second hand stores, etc all sometimes have something decent.

[lunasun]

232. Oh you know those judgemental folks would not stick a toe in a used shoe

I am sure many who do not have to, view second or used as dirty or with fleas etc.

[CrispyQ]

133. I have several friends who can apply makeup & style their hair better than any makeup artist.

And I have friends who can find a bargain at a thrift shop like you wouldn't believe. I have also donated brand new, high end clothing to thrift shops, so I know these bargains can be found.

Maybe the administration of the WIC program needs improvement, but it's a wonderful program. Repubs, putting this program on the chopping block show their incredible 'family values' hypocrisy. :grr: :grr: :grr:

[bobbolink]

148. And they put those "programs on the chopping block" precisely because they are set up to irritate

onlookers.

As you can see, people are judgemental enough that it works.

Too bad they then don't have to take responsiblity for those who end up going without.

[lunasun]

223. You can work and get WIC-it's not food stamps; if you dont like that- work 2 change the program

[NMDemDist2]

35. what everyone seems to have forgotten, FS were not for poor people

they were for the farmers

the program was started to give farmers a market of last resort.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5434497_history-food-stamps.html

[nadine_mn]

42. We were on food stamps when I was a kid

we were on them for just a little while, my mom was mortified to use them. Because we lived in a small town of 3000 people, we would drive 30 miles out of town (gas was cheaper) with my grandparents to Duluth to go grocery shopping. We were never living large - my mom is a vegetarian, so we never got any meat and this was before boca burgers and stuff so we ate a lot of eggs.

Years later when I was in college, I would hear stories of kids who probably never wanted for anything, applying for food stamps and receiving them. That pissed me off to no end, they would brag about it - these weren't students who were also parents trying to feed a family, these were asshats that were trying to scam the system because they could.

So yes - there are scammers for every program that aims to help others. That does not mean we should toss the whole system. I would see people (when I worked as a cashier) buying penny candy (ok 10 cent candy cause it wasn't really penny any more) with a food stamp $1 to get the change back, then buy cigs or beer with all change.

For those unfamiliar with food stamps when they were colorful paper money you had to bring the whole booklet with you if you were paying for anything more than $1 - cashiers were not allowed to accept loose denominations of anything over $1. Change could only be given back in food stamps and only in $1 - so if you bought a snickers with a $10 food stamp you couldn't get cash back only 9 in $1 stamps. So that is why people would buy candy to get small change back (which is why the EBT card, besides being more dignified than glorified monopoly money is a good thing - no change to get back).

The reality is junk food is comfort food and cheap. Dried beans may be healthier and cheaper when bought in bulk but they take time to make and are not tasty. Well, unless you know how to cook them. Which unfortunately cooking healthy, TASTY, and nutritional meals is something few Americans know how to do.

Believe it or not when you live in poverty and life sucks, sometimes a damn twinkie and potato chips are the only joys you have. Also I know parents who feel guilty and want to give their kids something - their favorite cereal or pop, to make up for the fact that maybe they can't afford the best clothes or whatever. And I know from my own experience growing up as an only child with a single mom - she worked her ass off, sometimes 2 jobs and the last thing she wanted to do was to come home and cook dinner. So thankfully my grandparents lived next door and ate with them and we ate a lot of frozen pizzas at our house.

The solution is not make people feel like criminals for buying junk food. The solution lies in teaching healthy and nutritional choices. We put too much shame out there anyway for people who need help.

[kickysnana]

80. FYI That change was the only way to get toilet paper some months.

If your kid got a cold, your one box of off brand, on sale tissues you managed to get with change was gone, then the toilet paper was gone and the kids is walking around with a snot rag and slightly damp undies.

Ah the good old days. I don't know what they do now.

[Joe Fields]

46. Thank you.

;)

[demigoddess]

47. or they could have been thinking how awful it is that in our

country people have to be on food stamps. I have seen people who had trouble feeding their kids and we were just as angry about it as the people on food stamps. We are military and when we were young we also had to watch every penny. Know what it' s like.
'

[Lucian]

48. You mean you don't eat only steaks and cakes on food stamps?

:wtf:

:sarcasm:

Yes. I agree with this. I watched my mom and dad apply for food stamps when I was little. I remember the long days in the social services building, waiting for our number to be called so we could get food stamps. Then I remember the trips to the food shelf and the stares in the grocery store when my parents pulled out the food stamps to pay for stuff.

But hey, some think that food stamps are a privilege and an honour. Will fuck that. It sucks being on them. And for all those who didn't have to go through the humiliation, if you don't know what it's like being poor, shut the fuck up.

[old mark]

49. My wife and I were getting foodstamps some years ago when I had several heart attacks

and bypass surgery. I was working-a state civil service job, too! The insurance paid my medical bills, but my wife was and still is on disability and cound not work, so we essentially had only that for income. She applied for food stamps and cash assisatnce and was told we made too much and had too much for cash assistance, but we did get foodstamps for several months till I was able to return to work and get paid again, about 7 months all told. Today, we are both retired-she is still on disability, but can never work again. But we own our small house and old car, and have few bills. We hated the time we were getting food stamps, but they were all that got us through that time and allowed us to keep our house.

I don't recall too many parties, either...but it would be terrible to not have had that cushion, thin as it was.

Oh, yeah-we did get stares and several times cashiers ar one market in particular would call out "Food Stamps" as we presented them for payment for our groceries...We haven't shopped there again in all the years since.

mark

[Maru Kitteh]

54. When I finally left my husband I had 3 broken teeth and had bitten all the way through my own tongue

I left the house while he was on the toilet (I knew it would give me 20+ minutes head start) with nothing but my baby daughter, a sack of her clothes, my purse, $390 that I had hidden away from him, and what I was wearing.

The two waitressing jobs I held down at $1.35/hr meant I didn't qualify for much in the way of financial aid. About $21 a month if I remember correctly - but BOY was I glad to see those food stamps arrive! They meant, at the very least, that my daughter would eat.

I endured the stares and the disapproval and would most often stare right back. I scraped the uneaten food from customers plates for my own meals.

Thankfully things are much better now and my daughter has no memory of her mother eating other people's leftovers or dirty looks from judgmental assholes - but I never forget what it was like.

[Tsiyu]

71. ...

:hug:

[BlueCheese]

115. Thanks for sharing, and glad things are better. n/t

[Norrin Radd]

53. kr

[KillCapitalism]

57. People should be able to buy almost everything with food stamps.

The only two things I don't agree with are tobacco and alcohol, but I don't generally think that's permitted. Is that correct?

[ejpoeta]

62. no it is not permitted. but it may be on the belt altogether because

the computer sorts out what is allowable and not so you don't have to have two orders.

[stillwaiting]

64. Those judging you don't seem to judge the wealthy though!

The wealthy, through their corporations, will take AS MUCH of their tax dollars as they can get their hands on with no remorse. They have no need; just greed.

But that doesn't seem to be a problem to conservatives does it?

None of us should let the assholes of the world get us down. More and more of them will be in a similar situation soon if our country continues down the path we're on, and for them, it will truly be karma.

I wonder what resources will still be available for them when those who judge need them? Of course they'll blame the poor and minorities if financial resources have been stripped and unavailable when they need them. These people will not ever blame themselves.

[Canuckistanian]

65. K&R

[Bill McBlueState]

66. great post

My wife, daughter, and I were also on food stamps for a rough couple of years not too long ago.

Here's what I don't get -- like you say, the application procedure for food stamps is pretty fucking onerous, and lots of people only want to make it worse. This is for a few hundred dollars a month, tops. But to get a cool $1000 in federal money at tax time, all you need is the SSN of a minor dependent. One benefit has you jumping through all sorts of hoops, but the other one is nothing like that. And all these "stick it to the bums" types have no qualms about taking their child tax credit.

[ejpoeta]

68. imagine if those tax credits came with rules about what you could spend it on....

there sure would be an outcry.... don't tell me how to spend MY money!!!

[lildreamer316]

72. I had to give husband the DEED TO OUR HOUSE to show social services..

Not kidding.

[tinkerbell41]

81. Well said.

I experienced the same things. I have family members who try to lecture me about "welfare queens".
If they ever walked a mile, in my shoes. Somehow they think I was different. No I wasn't.
The place I worked while pregnant 23 yrs ago made me leave, because my "condition" didn't look good. I had no insurance, I needed help. Going to that foodstamp office was the most humiliating experience ever. Buying food was the same experience as yours. If people only knew the guilt, embarrassment and longing to be "normal" recipients experience. But it has made me a better person, it's part of my story, and I proudly tell it now, because unlike those who judge, I have first hand experience.

[ejpoeta]

82. my family does that. and when they do i make sure they know they are talking about me.

i say, i have been on welfare. you must be talking about me. you wouldn't believe how fast they backpedalled with, but you are different bs. i said no i am not different. i am the same as everyone else out there who is on or has been on assistance. shut them up real fast.

[tinkerbell41]

300. it's always YOU are different.

Yeah I'm different because I got a helping hand to get out of the misery of welfare.

[ejpoeta]

360. welfare is a hard thing to get out of. people think folks just stay on it because it's 'easy'.

In fact, I believe that it is set up so that it's hard to get off of it. Say you go out and get that minimum wage job. Now you have to pay for childcare. but you make too much now to qualify for any help. now you are living hand to mouth because your car broke down and now you can't afford to fix it because while you make too much to get help anymore, you don't make enough to keep your car running. so you lose your job and end up..... back on welfare. which is of course your own fault because you are too poor to be able to get a reliable car to get to work.

we are all one illness away from living on the street. we are all precariously teetering on the edge of the abyss. In order to qualify for help, you must not have anything. When you are already just barely hanging on it doesn't take much to fall back down into that hole.

[bobbolink]

370. you know, I no longer think they really think its "easy"... I think it is just a way to divert us

and argue among ourselves to keep us splintered and arguing.

I think it is the same RW provacateur tactics.

What you detail is certainly one of the things that happens, and there are others.

We need to get angry and say BASTA!

[tinkerbell41]

375. Fantastic! And absolutely true

[arbusto_baboso]

84. As a cash aid and food stamps worker I totally confirm your account.

Cash aid and food stamps programs are intended to be bare subsistence programs, so as not to "encourage people to stay in the system".

Many times, what is provided is actually BELOW subsistence level.

[babydollhead]

88. we were on foodstamps when the kids were little.

My in-laws would harp on welfare recipients, and my husband made up a nickname, "Carrots" so we could talk about it in front of them if we needed to, which we did, "Do we have any carrots left?" meaning, can we go to the store to buy some food. I wanted to fall on the floor screaming, "We get food stamps!"

[Manifestor_of_Light]

89. I know a lady who gets $81 a month in food stamps.

She is 80 years old and gets $600 a month in Social Security.

I buy her paper towels and soap and toilet paper. She can't buy non-food items with food stamps.


I also take her food a couple of times a month.

[Xicano]

91. A *Civilized* society doesn't let people starve or go without medical care.

K&R

Thanks for posting ejpoeta.

[ejpoeta]

92. but we are the best country in the world!! why? because we were once a beacon

I am sorry but we aren't the best country in the world just because we say so. It's heartbreaking.

[Xicano]

100. +10

But the neo-cons sure like to try and throw it in people's faces that we're #1 don't they. Just goes to show how inept they are. Also, the banks and wall street should be the ones who are sorry our country is in a ditch, they're the ones who ran it there.


Peace,
Xicano

[appleannie1]

93. Plus, you had to pay cash for soap,toilet paper, cleaning products and other essentials.

That is the reason many on food stamps don't use deodorant or shampoo daily. They don't have the money. Granted, some people are just slobs but they can be anyone.

[Sabriel]

95. Want to help people who use food stamps and WIC?

Do like I do: if someone in line says something nasty, tell them to butt the fuck out of other people's affairs. Sometimes all it takes is one person to call them on their bullshit.

I've made several people leave checkout lines.

And I sometimes use the argument posted upthread: I'd rather buy my neighbor's kids Twinkies and Pepsi than fund another air strike on Afghan villagers.

People sometimes feel they can make comments about others, but it only takes one person to stop it.

Sometimes, just a disbelieving, "Excuse me? WHAT did you say to that woman?!" is all it takes.

Why do I do it? Because growing up, I stood in many a checkout line listening to my mother pass judgement on the food-stamp users ahead of us, and I said nothing. I'm trying to fix my damaged karma, I suppose.

[bobbolink]

149. thank you! I would welcome your advocacy anytime!

I really appreciate that you do that, and it is about the only thing that is ever going to work.

There is some real fake stuff going on right now, but what you are talking about doing is REAL solidarity!

Much appreciated!

[MinneapolisMatt]

96. You speak the truth.

Having been there myself (and maybe having to be there again soon) it's extraordinarily humbling and at times embarrassing. But we have to eat.

I got over the stigma real fast though. I was starving, I simply didn't care anymore.

Thanks for sharing.

[Thav]

97. How will God judge the American society?

But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. All the nationse will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left.

Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’

Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’

And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.

---
But this must be a part of the Bible that we can ignore.
(Matthew 25, 31-40)

[bobbolink]

150. I don't think Matthew 25 is taught anymore.

:(

You also never hear... "There but for the grace of God go I" anymore.

[Thav]

165. Probably not..

Cuz it tells us we need to care for our fellow man, and that just interferes with the pursuit of profits.

[bobbolink]

171. SAdly, the emphasis has been on "personal piety" now for decades.

And that is in both the "conservative" and "liberal" churches, although, of course, the conservatives are much worse on it.

If there is one thing that 'Murkins don't need more of, its navel gazing and concentrating on their own "salvation".

That is what I like so much about Jim Wallis.... he rubs peoples' noses in it! :evilgrin:

[xmas74]

230. This needs to be repeated

over and over again until someone gets it!

[lunasun]

238. Also ignore all of Matthew 7

“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you"

And Jesus better not come back wearing some old Jimmy Choo sandals or anything like that and be talking about the poor cuz some folks as we see will be so pissed they will not even hear His words!

[CrispyQ]

313. Colbert nails it:

Damn!

[bobbolink]

344. that is beautiful! Thank you!

If I still had a printer and art program, that would make a GREAT greeting card!

Thanks... that lifts my sagging spirits on a day where there SHOULD have been focus on poverty, but was NONE. :(

[ejpoeta]

358. that's what i love about colbert.... he isn't afraid to tell the truth

and call things for what they are. and he will do it right to people's faces too!

[bobbolink]

387. We're going to have to take a lesson from him, and speak To Peoples' Faces!

Because we are being ignored to death.

[slackmaster]

98. Automatic Rec for first-person account

Thanks for posting this.

:kick:

[klook]

99. Who is "The Government"?

I had a friend once who was on food stamps. Some jerk in the checkout line started muttering "blah, blah, feddle gubmint, blah blah, etc."

My friend turned to him, eyes blazing, pointed at himself, and said, "I AM the government!"

Food stamps are an insurance program. We all pay, and some have to collect. Glad I've never been in that position, but if I ever am, I'll remember this thread.

Do these same indignant idiots fume when people collect on car insurance? Or life insurance??

[SutaUvaca]

101. Still using nutrition assistance.

Using the EBT card these days, but while other customers often don't notice, we get some scowls from a cashier or two. Especially if we've bought a healthy version of something. Meanwhile, the next cart behind us is full of high fructose corn syrup food-like things and soda pop with aspartame. Oh well.

[IdaBriggs]

105. Let me explain the Judgment of those NOT receiving Assistance:

In theory, Assistance is for those in Dire Need - for whatever reason, the people receiving can't make it on their own, and require Help from their Neighbors (as represented by the Government).

Dire Need is not a bag of potato chips. Dire Need is not Candy for Easter Baskets. Dire Need is "I don't want my family to starve, and for whatever reason, if I don't get help, we are in danger of Starving to Death." And frankly, I do not mind helping. But even though I hope I wouldn't make a nasty comment to someone who has money to purchase cigarettes or cola drinks while using Food Stamps (or their current equivalent), I'm not an idiot, and I know that they've got the money for the "extras" because they aren't paying for "the basics" - which means *I* as their Helpful Neighbor, am doing so by supplementing their income. And when I can't afford "the extras" myself, it IRKS me because at some level, I feel like an Idiot who obviously is either a) being taken advantage of, or b) simply isn't "playing the system" to its full advantage (which I'm not interested in doing, but you get the idea)....

The money available to help those in Dire Need is limited; those who don't really *NEED IT* (but use it because they can or know how to "work the system") are taking away from those who *DO* need it (which is why "b" above isn't something I consider morally acceptable). And while this may sound Rude, I *WANT* someone in DIRE NEED where they need the assistance of their Neighbors to keep their family from starving to death to stare with yearning eyes at the Extras that they WANT so they can be uncomfortable (and not get used to it) and look for ways to get their family in a position to be Helpers not Needers. And while I don't mind helping for a short time (like most people in this country), I do have a problem with Able Bodied People Who Play the System - and unfortunately, I've known more than one. :(

I don't have a solution for those in Lifetime Low-Income Situations, but I hope I've explained the emotions. They may not be pretty, but they are real, and I am confident I am not the only one who has them. Other opinions may vary.

[bobbolink]

107. Wow... thank you, indeed, for illustrating just how the critical, and I mean CRITICAL brain works.

I vote for you for Food Czar. :crazy:

[yellowcanine]

114. Unfortunate recapitulation of a lot of stereotypes of people on food stamps.

I am amazed at how much people seem to KNOW about other people's lives.

[bhikkhu]

181. One of the problems - need tends to be invisible

like the homeless; very few people pay enough attention to even see people who need and benefit from food stamp programs.

On the other hand, abuse tends to be very visible, and talked about at every opportunity.

[bobbolink]

189. Excellent comment on the double-standard! I posted earlier about the food bank manager

who embezzled from the food bank....hardly spoken about.

Yet, LOTS of ongoing comments about who is "probably not entitled". :puke:

[leftstreet]

123. Here's an idea: Stop watching how customers pay for their shit

Unbelievable crap on this thread

:puke:

This is why states move to ebt 'cards' etc.

Such a struggle to fight the stigma

[Manifestor_of_Light]

129. Wow. Where are the jobs???????

You cannot MAKE someone give you a job. Did you know that?

Did you know that millions of people cannot work because they are disabled or in ill health? Where's your compassion now? You are really into bootstraps, aren't you?


Horatio Alger and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is a MYTH. BULLSHIT.

[IdaBriggs]

166. Disabled and ill health are long term problems. I don't have a solution for them.

I specifically mentioned able bodied people who *can* work - and choose not to. (Yes, they are out there. Yes, I have personal experience with several of them, including being related to a couple.)

*shrug* My judgment is a visceral one. If you are unable to comprehend it, I guess you can just think of me as a "mean person". :)

[Name removed]

188. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftstreet]

206. omg I can't believe I'm reading this on DU

:wow:

[uppityperson]

210. He said we can think of him as a "mean person". He gave us permission to do so.

[bobbolink]

214. Sadly, it is rather common, and won't be addressed by the site.

:((((((

[uppityperson]

216. There are a lot of us here addressing this. Even if you have us all on ignore, you can see how many

are.

[MissB]

134. Your thought process on this is seriously whacked.

The way I read the first part of your post is:

"People paying with food stamps should not use them to buy things like potato chips and cheap Easter bunny chocolate." You know, because only people who actually work for a living should waste any money in any form on junk food.

I suppose you'd be okay with me buying chips and chocolate, because our family income is close to $200k? Let me ask you: at what income is it not okay to buy chips and chocolate? Working families qualify for foodstamps too- folks that I work with everyday who are trying to raise a couple of kids on one income in a crappy economy and make $30k a year.

Suppose a mother feeds her kids beans and rice for 28 days of the month so that she can stretch her foodstamps enough to buy a treat like chips or buy some chocolate for their kids Easter basket. You'd still deny that mom, just because she's using foodstamps?

Think a little longer before you judge.

[IdaBriggs]

169. Buy whatever you want with YOUR money. Be prepared to have

judgmental glances when using *MY* money. And food stamps are money from the collective tax-payer pot (not your own private income source).

[superduperfarleft]

173. It's a good thing you're there to remind them that being poor sucks.

Otherwise, they might forget.

[uppityperson]

185. What sort of car do you drive on MY roads? Have you ever had a fire, used MY firefighters?

What books do you check out of MY library? I need a copy of all your school records to make sure you didn't waste MY money.

[ejpoeta]

220. but it's not YOUR money... it's OUR money. it comes out of all of our taxes

including the ones who are collecting it. get off your high horse.

[MissB]

225. Shame on you.

If you ever find yourself on the receiving end of public assistance, I hope you have the decency to be ashamed of your current stance.

The goal shouldn't be for poor Americans to nearly starve on food stamps. They should not feel segregated from society because they are poor. They shouldn't feel guilty about buying something other than a loaf of cheap bread and jar of crappy peanut butter, all because some bitter taxpayer finds it unseemly for them to buy something other than a basic food item.

[IdaBriggs]

291. The goal is that "poor Americans" *don't* starve, which is why we provide food stamps.

When I have extra money for my food budget, I buy nicer things. When I don't, we eat cheaper. My beloved husband and I had a business fail putting us $150K in debt, which we paid off (because we are both blessed with good health, have good skills and worked multiple jobs/the economy was such that we could). During that three year period where every single dime went to pay off the Horrible Debt, we ate Ramen Noodles, wore shoes with holes in the snow, and got excited about going to the dollar show every few months (and counted our blessings that things weren't bad enough to need Public Assistance). The only thing that made it bearable was that we knew it was a "short term" situation - three years of misery / debt paid off (no bankruptcy). Trust me when I say I know how lucky we were to have the means to do what we did. But I also know the fact we were *willing* to do it also made a difference.

At some level, as an American, I believe "dirt poor" should be a temporary thing, reserved for emergency situations, bad business, and college students; there should be a freaking plan to GET OUT OF IT, and it shouldn't become a multi-generational thing, especially for the healthy and able bodied. I don't have an answer for the disabled and elderly long term folks, but I'm going to keep doing my best to make sure that *my* America lives up to the promise of opportunity for everyone.

And in the meantime, I'll smile when I pay my taxes, especially when they go to good programs that keep people from Starving. :)

[tinkerbell41]

301. Wow!

Here's a story for you. I worked myself off of food stamps into a solid middle class life.
I had everything I could ever need. I lived a comfortable working class life. And now 20 yrs later, because of the massive downturn in the field I have worked I went to apply again.
Did I ever think I'd be here?? No. In fact my main drive for 20 yrs was to NEVER be there again.
I worked 6 mos in the past 3 yrs. In those 6 mos I saved enough money to get me thru a 6 mo layoff. But it won't be 6 mo more like 29.
I have worked 2 jobs to save money, I always took a part-time job when things were slow. But in 2008 it took me a yr and a half to get a waitress job. Do I have skills? Yes. I am a tradesperson.
But NO ONE wants to pay for my services. They think I should do it for 10 an hour.
After having successfully raised my kid alone, put her thru College, lived a great simple working class life, I am back at the bottom.
Until you walk in another's shoes you cannot judge. You have no idea.

[IdaBriggs]

312. So get on food stamps and don't starve to death.

Its called a social safety net for a reason, and I support it because there are emergency cases like yours, as well other occasions where folks need a helping hand.

But if you buy chips, soda and some cigarettes with them, be prepared to get some "where the hell are your priorities" looks from the folks in the grocery store. :shrug:

[uppityperson]

315. You can't buy cigs with food stamps. Good grief, educate yourself. You pass judgment yet don't know

that simple fact. And we are supposed to care about your judging us?

[IdaBriggs]

328. For heaven's sake - I was referencing chips and soda, and then

"cigarettes" as an "extra" because your basics are being covered with your food stamps. And don't worry about me judging you - I've got a pretty good idea of who you are (and now you've got one of me, too).

:hi:

[Forkboy]

325. The ignorance you have espoused in this thread is mind boggling.

And the fact that you take pride in said ignorance is even more mind boggling.

[tinkerbell41]

327. You can't buy cigarettes with food stamps.

And you didn't get it. I NEVER want to go back there, to be judged by people who have NEVER been there. You get those looks regardless what you purchase.

[IdaBriggs]

330. Sorry I wasn't clear about the "cigarettes" being an extra (because the basics are ccovered).

It was from a different part of the thread, and I pulled it in here.

[CrispyQ]

351. Wow. You would begrudge a kid a chocolate Easter bunny cuz her parents use public assistance.

Unfuckingbelievable.

I hope you never find yourself in a desperate situation, but if you do, I hope people show you more kindness than you have shown.

[ejpoeta]

135. i can understand what you are saying, but please explain your 'dire need'

from my experience with my own family, it just sounds like jealousy as if people on assistance are just living it up, hence the title of my post. WE ALL PAY TAXES. even the poor. maybe not property taxes, but rent and sales tax on things they buy like toilet paper. we all pay into the system and you should just be thankful that you don't need to go grovel at the social services for help. the idea that people don't REALLY need it is just so you can feel better about judging others. From your words about 'playing the system' it is obvious you think that most on assistance are just trying to get a free ride. I just hope you never have to know what it is like to be poor and in need of food stamps or assistance.

[bobbolink]

141. Here's playing the system... a food bank in a town close to here was run by a manager who embezzled

funds from the food bank!

Do you think there was huge outcry about THAT "playing the system"? Nope, if it is affluent people doing the shit,then it is OK.

II don't think there is any hope for that poster... the Calvinism runs too deep. :(

[IdaBriggs]

174. To be fair, part of it is "jealousy" - I believe I mentioned the situation

where the "judgmental" people can't afford to buy "extras" while those whose "basic needs" are being taken care of by the Common Pot are able to enjoy the occasional bag of chips.

And the folks I know / knew spent HOURS going to social service agencies to get their "free ride" - they treated it like a full time job. It was obviously emotionally draining, but at some level, it was a lifestyle choice because it was 'easier' than actually working at a job that required them to be someplace doing something "demeaning / hard."

Whenever these types of discussions come up, I always think of CW - the Tenant from Hell who screwed us out of six months rent with true stories of tough situations, and constant promises to pay: she was going to get the whole thing caught up with her income tax, but then decided to buy herself a new car instead. I should have known she was a scam artist when I offered to pay her to babysit my toddling twins (when I had to return to full-time work to cover her living expenses), and she decided that she needed to concentrate on the other stuff going on in her life instead..... We almost lost everything because of her, but she knew everywhere to go to "work the system". Heaven knows she played me good and proper - foolish woman that I am, I nearly bankrupted our family trying to help her out.... Life was tough for us, but one time I went over there, and she had a whole case of those "creamy coffee drinks" (that cost $5 for a four pack) but there wasn't any spare money to help cover the bills....I currently have KM who is going to be evicted: he hasn't paid a dime of rent since December 18th - want to throw some money my way to help cover his bills? Oddly enough, despite the fact his rent is extremely inexpensive, and includes his gas/water/electric, he hasn't been able to come up with a dime nearly two months - lots of promises, though, AND his cigarette habit doesn't seem to be suffering....

Priorities are tough things to deal with, and its hard not to judge how other people make life choices. :)

[bobbolink]

217. thank you for explaining your prejudice. This is exactly the kind of thinking behind racism,

homophobia, and all the other forms of discrimination.

Jackpot.

[ejpoeta]

218. you act as if this is everyone on assistance. it isn't. and those people

who you say spend HOURS for their 'free ride' generally have jobs that they have to take a day off to go to ask for help. just your attitude makes it perfectly clear you have already decided that anyone on assistance is just a lazy person who just doesn't want to have to work and is bilking the system. I have had people screw me over, but I refuse to project that on everyone else. There are those who are takers.... and you seem to associate anyone on assistance as such.... but you would be wrong. I feel sorry for you.

[IdaBriggs]

287. Actually, I was making specific references to CW.

She literally drove from place to place to get "free things" - she had no other job, but had a complete list of all of the local places that provided assistance, and collected from each one. (I believe she was able to do this because the different churches / services are not in communication with each other, so she was able to collect food and money from multiple places without declaring the help she was receiving from the other places. She was offered a job by me that would have covered her rental expenses and gas money to get back and forth to it and decided against it. (My twins were under two; her two children went to school full time being 10 and 13. In hindsight, I am extremely grateful for this lack of interest on her part!)

The case of KM is a different one: he is a contractor, and in the winter time, work slows down. We rent to other contractors, and even in Michigan's bad economy, they still pay their rent - they work shoveling snow in the winter time (for example), but KM only likes doing drywall, therefore he simply stopped paying rent. His cigarette addiction, unlike paying for his shelter, is apparently not a "negotiable" item, and he manages to find funds "somewhere" to cover it. The man is in his 40s, and is aware that this "winter problem" happens every year (like it has for the last 20 years).

My (now deceased) sister was also an example of "playing the system." She was diagnosed with MS at 21, and spent the rest of her life on assistance (including when she was working full time jobs under the table). She and her significant other supplemented their income with their "private" drug dealing business, and her teenagers always had cell phones glued to their ears, and brand new designer clothes. Her youngest daughter made it a point of pride to never wear the same shirt for her entire four year high school career - wear it once, and done. Of the many sad things in this story was the fact that my sister was the happiest when she was contributing / working (during those times when she was okay, because she had relapsing / remitting, and her decline was slow over over two decades), but because they needed the medical insurance provided by being officially "disabled", she couldn't STOP being disabled *ever* (even when she was okay).

I appreciate you feeling sorry for me - as I said, if you want to help cover some of KM's bills, let me know! (We are almost financially recovered from CW, although it will be years before our credit looks good again.)

[Forkboy]

222. "Lifestyle choice."

To quote Bubba, when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

[Mimosa]

279. Ida, I'm not going to join the bashing because...

I've known two people who've lived well, better than most, by methodically bilking the welfare system. One of my friends has worked the welfare systems in 2 English speaking countries. He's been very 'fortunate' and has frequently traveled all over the world. (I'm jealous about that.) And none of his bucks were self-earned. But I guess it's his karma. He's not a bad fellow and is quite generous.

I don't want to say much more because I don't want to give identifying info. I'm not a snitch.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

280. It's your fault about your renters.

I have a real estate manager who makes the clients sign contracts where I, as a landlord, have remedies and consenquences for late/non-payment of rent.

You don't have a good contract that gives you remedies, you need to get one.

I have a real estate manager who takes 10 percent of the rent money off the top as a management fee. It's well worth it.

But then you might think that ten percent of the rent money is too much to give someone to manage it. Its your call.

[IdaBriggs]

293. Both folks were 100% my fault - I enabled them (and they took advantage).

In the case of CW, there was plenty of warning about the type of person she was, but I made *her* problems my problems. We refer to her as the "Queen Bitch from Hell" not just because of what she did to us, but what she did to her husband. (Quit reading if you don't want to hear a "you've got to be kidding me" story!)

When she and her husband moved in, she was working two part time jobs, while her husband was employed at a (non-union) shop where he had worked for seven plus years. They confessed to having financial difficulty in the recent past, but were digging themselves out of it. The two part-time jobs impressed me (I've worked multiple jobs in times of financial challenge in the past), and one of them was at their church. Apparently she quit (fired from the church job) within a few weeks of moving in; they were late with the first rent due after move-in, and I should have cut my losses at that point, but I didn't....

August and September were "mostly" on time (or near enough that I didn't complain much), but toward the end of September, the husband started having problems with his diabetes, and was hospitalized. (I believe his sick days were used up at this point.) Also, the husband's youngest brother committed suicide. (I think the suicide occurred first.) The reason this matters to the story is that CW and her husband had been estranged from her husband's family for nearly a decade, but the funeral pulled everyone together (which did not make CW happy). And while the husband was in the hospital, they found a spot on his lung...

October rent didn't get paid - when he didn't work in September during the funeral / hospitalization, he didn't get paid. I served them 30 days notice. November's rent didn't get paid. We went to court. December's rent didn't get paid. The sheriff's department was scheduled to remove them on December 10th. We were in regular communication, and the situation wasn't hostile; they didn't have the money, because the husband wasn't allowed to return to work because of the spot on his lung, and the wife "couldn't" find work. They asked their family for help, but apparently this wasn't the first, second, third, etc. time they'd been in this situation, and family was DONE helping / being taken advantage of. (CLUE FOR THE CLUELESS: when family is done, strangers are doomed! Lol!) CW begged me to "just work with them a little longer" - they were going to be getting their income tax back/would catch everything up/pay ahead/expected him to get disability (even I knew that wasn't going to be a quick process, but she swore they were expecting a check shortly), and I -

I caved. Sigh. It was two weeks before Christmas, they had two children (10 & 13), and despite my mother and husband's warnings, I called off the Sheriff's department. Their church scraped together a little bit (not much), and I found a job. I asked CW if she was willing to babysit my twins (under 2/paying enough to cover her rent/gas money to get back/forth) and she politely declined. She was waiting on a "good job" with a local fast food establishment, and needed to concentrate on "other priorities."

January's rent didn't get paid. The husband lost half his lung. His family came to the hospital, and CW threatened them that if the husband died, she would have him cremated / disposed of before they knew he was dead. (She bragged about this to me, and also told her daughter in front of me that he was "abandoning them" - I asked her later in private if she shouldn't wait to say things like that to the children until after he was safely out of the hospital?) After a few weeks in the hospital, the feud between husband and wife over his family was such that he went home to his brother instead of her, and she was telling me he wouldn't sign their income tax refund so she could pay the bills. (This seemed very unlike the husband, but he was hospitalized for much of this, and I wasn't going to the hospital when someone was dealing with this kind of health crisis.)

February's rent didn't get paid. We were financially dying - robbing Peter to pay Paul, and Peter had nothing left to rob, if you know what I mean. Our taxes were done, and I spoke with CW. After being out of the hospital for three days, her husband had developed an infection, and was back in: they were going to remove more of his lung, and were only giving him a 50/50 chance of coming out of emergency surgery, which he was in right at that moment. There was a loudspeaker going off in the background, and I asked if she was at the hospital. She said she wasn't. As diplomatically as I could, I politely said that it was a "tradition" in our family, if you weren't sure of the outcome of a surgery, to stay at the hospital in case the doctors needed someone to "make a decision." She said there was nothing she could do, and we hung up. I left messages later asking how he was doing, but didn't hear back. That was on a Thursday.

Sunday late morning we went to the building and were doing our twice annual "check smoke detector batteries." CW wasn't there, but her two children, and an older brother/his girlfriend (both of who had moved in at some point during this debacle) were. She called me that night to complain we "hadn't given notice" and I laughed, because we are at the building regularly, and obviously, this was a joke. I asked her what the status of the income tax refund was.

She told me she spent it. She'd bought herself a new car. (The perfectly fine car in her husband's name she donated to a local charity.) I was stunned. The next day I spoke with the husband in the hospital. The *only* reason I believe what he said is because his minister was there, and he put him on the phone to corroborate the story.

Apparently when the husband was told he had a 50/50 chance of surviving the operation, the minister arrived to "minister." CW walked in before the surgery, and the husband signed the papers for the income tax (a large amount that would have covered six months plus of rent) with instructions to "go pay the rent" because he wanted to make sure his family had shelter in case the worst happened. She left. The minister was emphatic that she left before the husband was taken to surgery. THAT WAS WHEN SHE WENT TO BUY THE NEW CAR - WHILE HER HUSBAND WAS IN SURGERY WITH A 50/50 CHANCE OF COMING OUT OF IT.

I had to start the entire eviction process over again. She stayed until the bitter end. The husband was hospitalized for three more weeks after the surgery, two weeks in intensive care. During that time, after he found out what she did, he said some very Unkind Things to her, and she threatened to disappear with his kids, which made him say some more Unkind Things to Her. She had him served with a restraining order the day after he was released from the hospital (at his brother's house), despite the fact he needed assistance to walk from the couch to the bathroom, and was on an IV drip that a visiting nurse came to take care of due to the infection. He was physically unfit to fight it, and she got it. (This is why we call her the Queen Bitch from Hell - because of what she did to her husband. She wouldn't let the kids see him while he was in the hospital or until his health recovered enough for him to go to court and fight, at which point because of the restraining order, he had to have "supervised visitation" which he had to pay for....did I mention he had NOTHING because he had no disability from work (since it wasn't a union shop)?

Within four months of her moving out of our place (no rent in March or April, of course), she had moved in with her new boyfriend. Our current theory is that she was hoping the husband would die so she could collect money for the kids....

True story. And 100% my fault for falling for her scam. My whimper to my mother was, "but she seemed so NICE!" and my mother laughed, saying she could be nice a couple of times a month to someone for free rent for six months....

KM is getting away with it (honestly) because I felt bad for him, and I do understand the contractor thing. Unfortunately, he has decided to cut his losses/not pay up, and is now just sitting there until the court date happens; he works under the table, so I won't be able to collect, and he knows it. At the time he moved in, he was working "over" the table with a specific company, but .... sigh. Again, my fault: I should have gotten him out weeks ago, but I let him slide, and now he's just happy with being a scammer. (Did I mention we had a fight over the fact he has TWO vehicles, and is only allowed ONE? Heaven forbid he sell one to cover his rent! ARGH!)

Overall, I consider it an honor to provide good people with good housing. The occasional bad apple is a valuable learning experience (or so my mother said - she tells me CW did me a favor, and I should remember it next time someone starts in with a story)... Lol!

[uppityperson]

143. You think it should be the cheapest minimalist survival food? Rude?No. VERY judgmental

How the fuck do you know whether or not I ate dried beans for the last 2 weeks to be able to get my kid a piece of candy? Seriously, what the fuck. You want food stamps to be for not starving to death and that is good enough for you? Well, bless your little heart.

[IdaBriggs]

175. Yes, I want food stamps to be for not starving to death.

If you want more / are healthy and able bodied, find different answers that don't come out of the Common Pot. (shrug)

[uppityperson]

182. How many yrs, how many $ have I paid into my taxes and you are snide with me now. SHAME on you

Yes, I am able bodied and ready for work but unable to find any. Yes, I've applied for at least 300 jobs, gotten 2 interview. One was not for a real job but just testing the area to see if there were people who would do the job for what wages, if the business chose to open. The other was for minimum wage with 45 other applicants. Guess what. I am over qualified!

Having worked for over 30 yrs, paying taxes and my own way and now being stuck, take your "starving to death" judgmentalism and stick it in that special place in Slice – an area in the Lancre kingdom – hidden in the high Ramptop mountains.

And some people wonder why our country is as bad off as it is. Shame on you.

[IdaBriggs]

311. (Yawn.) Don't feel any shame.

And now I'll take my excess millions, bomb a few countries, and then get myself a nice mani-pedi so I can show off my three hundred dollar shoes while vacationing someplace super expensive..... (Do I have to put :sarcasm: for that particular sentence here?)

Trying to make "shame on you" stick means I have to be doing something "bad" where I should feel some shame. Having an opinion about how people should spend food stamps isn't something I'm going to feel "shame" about. The fact I want the *LIMITED* funds available to stop people from Starving to Death as opposed to buying them chips, soda and cigarettes - if you can't comprehend the concept, well, shame on the education system that didn't teach you how to understand simple concepts like that one! :)

[uppityperson]

314. Ah. Try reading my post again. Yes, you're passing judgment on my for wasting "your" money

when it isn't "your" money and you have no clue as to my situation. If you feel no shame for doing so, you have a bigger problem than we can deal with here.

[IdaBriggs]

318. Just like I can pass judgment on how politicians and public servants

spend "my" tax dollars, I can have opinions on how the folks who receive the "public largess" spend it. Its what wise people do. :)

[uppityperson]

322. You call me stupid or a liar. gotcha.

[Forkboy]

326. "Don't feel any shame."

Clearly.

[uppityperson]

333. Most people espousing prejudicial opinions don't feel any shame and are very good at putting blame

on others. The best defense is a good offense sort of thing.

[LeftishBrit]

391. You honestly think that everyone who is healthy and able-bodied is going to be ABLE to get a job in

the current climate?

Apart from the fact: how can you always tell by looking at someone that they're healthy and able-bodied? Yes, they may be able to walk normally, but they may be suffering severe pain, or mental illness, or even be terminally ill. Or THEY may be healthy, but may have to be full-time carers for family members who are seriously sick or disabled (and by doing so, are saving the taxpayer considerably more than they're getting in benefits).

You sound as though poverty is some sort of sin that people should be punished for.

Yes, there are some people who play the benefits system. There are also lots of better-off people who evade taxes, over-claim on expenses, etc. etc.

[Bunny]

147. Stunning.

And not in a good way. :thumbsdown:

[JVS]

152. Is there some kind of contest for horrible posts that nobody informed me about?

[superduperfarleft]

157. How about this?

Instead of worrying about someone buying a bag of potato chips, try and get some perspective by asking yourself if you'd like to switch places with them.

99% of the time, I'd bet that answer is no, whether it's yourself or one of the louder, more obnoxious anal retentives out there.

[bobbolink]

168. Sadly, there is a cadre of people here who are soooo convinced of their superiority, that they

proudly proclaim how much better they would handle the food stamps.

Really..... it is said often here..... anal retentives are a dime a dozen here.

Its quite sad.

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

160. +1 for the blunt truth.

[IdaBriggs]

177. Thank you. :) nt

[Forkboy]

208. Wearing it with pride.

[etherealtruth]

179. Seriously .... WTF

"I do have a problem with Able Bodied People Who Play the System - and unfortunately, I've known more than one."

How often do you really think this happens? This is straight from the playbook of right wing talking points. I understand one person out of a hundred may scam the system ... I am really OK accepting that, because I know we are helping 99 people that aren't.

You have an image of the State of Michigan for an avatar .... you do understand there are NOT enough jobs for all of the "able bodied" adults in this state ... right?

[IdaBriggs]

295. Speaking from my experience, it is more the rule than the exception.

The ones I don't mind are the "short term people" - the ones who find themselves in a temporary hole, and use the system to get out of it.

But unfortunately, my experience is such that "assistance" becomes a lifestyle. In the case of my sister, when she didn't need it, she couldn't get off of it because of the insurance part of it. After some initial discomfort, what I have seen is that people "get comfortable" and "expect it." And unfortunately, even "partially abled" people (you know, the ones who are in good enough health to roof their own homes, help family move, and work under the table as handymen, but need disability because of "bad backs" :eyeroll:) come to see it as something they should get because - hell, I don't know why these people don't contribute: frankly, I think *some* of them are just plain lazy.

Yeah, it looks like a right-wing talking point, but I am a bleeding liberal, with a strong respect for the social safety net. I'm also not an idiot, and I know damn good and well there are people out there who take advantage of "free money" - I *know* them, and can name nearly a dozen examples without blinking. It makes me suspect the percentages are much higher....

People need to quit pretending that experiences like I have aren't real because they don't like them or they sound "right wing" - instead help find ways to deal with the problem people (who are the ones making the average person feel like a sucker instead of a fellow citizen).

[uppityperson]

304. It because a "lifestyle" for your sister because she couldn't afford insurance otherwise?

Personally I'd blame the f*ing for profit insurance industry for that, not people who cannot afford high priced insurance. Needing to stay in the system to maintain health insurance is an example of someone taking advantage of that system? Wrong.

Yes, there are some lazy people, but that is a minority and blasting/judging everyone for those few sounds rather like blasting/judging (pick a category) for the actions of a few.

Maybe you should report those taking advantage of the system rather than letting them go on? Part of taking responsibility is reporting fraud rather than judging everyone by the actions of a few assholes.

[IdaBriggs]

317. My sister quickly grew comfortable with the extra cash and considered it something

she was entitled to. The "excuse" or "reasoning" that I understood was simple: it took her a long time to get on Social Security Disability (which provided her with medical insurance), and if she got off of it during the times (sometimes years) when her health was "good", it wouldn't be there when her health was bad and she "needed" it. Maybe I should have reported her - heaven knows her drug dealing ended up with a terrible, obviously foreseeable outcome with her youngest (who she recruited to help) becoming a heroin addict - but at a certain point, it seemed like the best thing to do was just stay out of it, and look the other way, because there were times she was in need....

Yes, I can blame the system, but I can also look with cynical eyes at my sister. When she didn't need it, she could have donated it or something. Instead, she spent it. After all, it was "her" money - she paid into the system for nearly three years after all.

Maybe you know a plethora of people who got the help they needed, and moved off the social teat. I know some who did. But I know more who don't / didn't. And then the money isn't there for the programs that *should be* - but playing dumb about the fact there are actually lazy people out there who take advantage (or live a comfortable lifestyle while not giving back to the community) is a fool's game.

Like it or not, we all judge people - the folks who are trying to slam me the most are "judging me" for the fact I have had the nerve to have an actual opinion! Pretty darn funny when I have stated I am comfortable with a social safety net, but at worst would "look askance" at a healthy, able bodied someone in a grocery store spending their food stamps (limited resources) on chips and soda. And they haven't changed my mind - I just kind of think they are either stupid or lying to themselves if they claim not to understand the reasoning behind the logic I've explained. Seriously, what does bombing another country have to do with buying chocolate easter bunnies? Lol!

[uppityperson]

321. No, we are slamming you for exhibiting bigoted behavior not for having an opinion

Judging all by the actions of a few is wrong. I am telling you you are wrong to tell me I am wasting your money when I have worked so long, put so much into taxes. It is not "your money" but mine.

You have no idea why me, a "healthy, able bodied someone" might be "in a grocery store spending their food stamps (limited resources) on chips and soda". And you have no desire to find out why, just feel righteous in judging me as "wasting your money", calling me "stupid of lying to themselves" by not understanding your logic.

No, we aren't judging you for the fact you have the never to have an actual opinion, but pointing out the prejudicial behavior of that opinion. Rather like pointing out that being frightened of every Muslim is wrong.

[IdaBriggs]

332. Sigh. Whatever. You need help. I get it. I should just give it to you without

asking any questions, or having any opinions about how you spend it, because there is no point in holding someone accountable for "wasting" money on non-essentials when they Can't Afford To Pay For Their Own Food.

Do you realize how foolish you sound, or do you just want to keep trying to justify poor decision making?

[uppityperson]

334. Strawman. My "poor decision making" got me laid off? Indeed, many people showing

bigoted behavior also engage in "the best defense is a good offense" sort of thing also. My "poor decision making" got me laid off. Incredible.

Seriously. How could I make such poor decisions as to become a middle aged nurse working during a recession. I would use bad language at you, but you really aren't worth it. Glad you have shown your true colors.

[Forkboy]

340. "Do you realize how foolish you sound"

The irony.

[uppityperson]

194. Please answer these questions about how YOU spend MY money...

link to post downthread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=503937&mesg_id=510180

[Forkboy]

331. Good luck on that.

[Desertrose]

213. Did someone die to make you judge or did you just take it on yourself?

Seriously...this is the typical "OMG...someone may get my share or a bigger share than me" crap again.

WTF is wrong with just helping people without comparing it to what you get or don't get or by judging their worth by your standards? I am so sick of this stupid attitude that is everywhere.

NEEDERS? Hey pal, at some point in life we are ALL "needers" and ya know what...its not the end of the world.Nothing wrong with that. We are here to help each other not judge each other. Wake up...the rest of the world is finally getting it...but not this country.

[Name removed]

215. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[datasuspect]

226. random capitalization does not prove your point

[xmas74]

231. So, my three dollars worth of Easter candy,

though not a dire need, shouldn't have been purchased? I should have just allowed my child to go without anything in her basket on Easter morning? I should have taken her to services and while the other children talked about all the things they had she, at the age of seven, should have had to sit in a corner and listen? Or maybe when the kids at school talk about it the next morning?

I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't buy soda or most junk. I don't go out, I don't buy anything for myself, and I try to save money whenever I can. I also didn't plan on a lay off and on spending what little money I had on bills and gas to find another job while waiting for my unemployment to kick in.

I lost my job. I gave up my pride by going to the office to apply. I knew that I couldn't afford to do anything nice but I could at least get my kid something. Did she deserve to have nothing because you didn't think she needed it?

I guess you'd also have a problem with her having a Christmas, since it isn't "dire".

You are the reason why, though I probably still qualify, I do not apply for assistance. I'd rather not deal with people telling everyone what they can and cannot do.

[Dan]

233. I refuse to accept the idea that help is limited

as long as we as a nation can spend billions destroying other countries and killing their citizens - without seeming to find a limit.

[Esurientes]

378. ++ to 105 and 294

After more than 400 posts, I'm sticking my neck out to agree with most of your thoughts.

My two kids and I were on food stamps, medicaid, and WIC for 7 years. In that time I knew firsthand of two people who played the system and one who had an extremely bad attitude.

One of these players was me. I used a $1 stamp to buy an Airhead for twenty cents every time I needed eighty cents for the bus. I don't remember buying Easter candy, but I clearly recall buying Halloween candy and birthday cakes with the stamps.

WIC in the 1980s gave such quantities of food to breastfeeding mothers that I don't see how one woman could possibly eat or drink it all. I shared dozens of eggs and gallons of milk with a friend who worked full-time (hope the statute of limitations has passed).

My best friend used them to "rent" a washing machine and tried to borrow some from me once to treat her (married) boyfriend to a deluxe home-cooked dinner.

I saw the bad attitude displayed one of the few times I was fortunate enough to go to a government food handout. (Never lucky enough to get cheese, but there was plenty of that dreadful canned pork with the plain white label. The workers wouldn't let you refuse it, either!) But I digress ... my story is that the line was moving slowly, and a young woman looked at her watch and huffed, "I'm missing my stories!"

I don't think making laws against buying junk is the ultimate answer, but also I don't remember ever being criticized or judged for my actions. Maybe if I had, I'd have gone back to work sooner and not be paying for poor decisions now when I don't have enough years of service to retire until I'm 65+.

[LeftishBrit]

390. Surely people need a bit more than just not to literally starve to death?

Besides which, it's not your or my money that goes to helping people on benefits. It's the society's money, America's or Britain's or wherever's, and *everyone* is paying into it through taxes so as to have a safety net. Do you feel the same way about elderly people receiving a pension? If your answer is 'No because they worked all their lives for it and paid in taxes', then (a) many people on benefits were working until they lost their jobs; (b) some elderly people did *not* work in paid employment, especially many women who, in a former generation, were often not expected or essentially permitted to work outside the home; (c) everyone pays taxes, even if just through VAT/sales tax.

And also: your remarks might have *some* justification if there were more jobs than people to take them, and some were refusing to work and thereby creating a higher workload for others. But there are far more people than there are jobs at the moment. In times of high unemployment, it is just *not possible* for everyone to work in paid employment.

[Pithlet]

392. Oh, you aren't the only one, by far.

And that's a huge, sad problem.

[BlueCheese]

111. Thank you for writing that.

Congratulations to your family for your recent success.

[KG]

162. hit a low point in my life in the 90's, the application procedure was so grinding and

i got so little i just never bothered to go back for more.

[silenttigersong]

167. Soda pop and chips

Paid to be poor....meanwhile people like Rep Micky Bachman receive( while screaming about socialism) subsidies for her Family farm,. there ought to be a lottery for poor people who would like to have land.During world war two the United States distributed ration stamps .I think we ought to distribute ration stamps to the rich for gas,once they use it no more gas...the poor have do this naturally lets see milk bread or gas to work Dr. ect...the greedy rich do not have to be concerned so they abuse it.Mansanto has developed seeds that cannot reproduce we should be concerned about this.

[bobbolink]

209. I, too, call for rationing of gas, but it causes apoplexy on DU.

:hi:

[WatsonT]

170. I don't think anyone has said that living on foodstamps is desirable or fun

But that doesn't mean we should use federal money to enrich corporations at the expense of the publics health.

[superduperfarleft]

172. That's like arguing that I shouldn't have to pay child support because my ex-wife's a bitch.

It ignores the fact that there is a real person here that needs the benefit of that help, and all the ancillary stuff about the "principle" of it is really pretty minor compared to that.

Seems a lot of the religious crowd have forgotten that line about, "There but for the grace of god go I." Maybe you've got a stomach lining to spare, but I'd much rather not give myself an ulcer worrying about someone purchasing a bag of potato chips with their assistance so they can go home to eat it in a shit neighborhood surrounded by shit schools and shit city services and never have any real hope of ever getting out of said shithole.

Let them have the potato chips for all I care, I just hope I never end up in that situation.

[WatsonT]

323. Except that in child support

even if the ex is a 'bitch' it's the kid who will suffer if you don't pay, not her necessarily or not just her.

I for one don't think we need to kill our people with fat and salt so that frito-lay can make a few extra bucks.

Why not instead ensure that everyone has access to cheap healthy food by reworking both how food stamps function and our misguided ag-subsidies.

Perhaps 50% obesity rates are acceptable to you, but they aren't to me. And I'm not going to change my mind on this.

[uppityperson]

324. Do you remember back to when people got surplus food, packages of canned meat,

cheese, etc? It was loaded with fat and salt and a little bit of protein.

How will putting more rules on what food stamps can be used for address the overall 50% obesity rate? Seems you would be for putting more regulations on food for everyone. Make chips for EVERYONE illegal?

[WatsonT]

371. How will changing what people eat affect obesity rates . . .

Is that a serious question?

"e? Seems you would be for putting more regulations on food for everyone. Make chips for EVERYONE illegal?"

Yes because when I say food stamps shouldn't be used for junk food the clear implication is that they should be illegal. Presumably the penalty for being caught with chips will vary depending on the amount, with a 5 year sentence for merely possessing a snack sized bag, but up to life for one of those variety packs with a dozen different flavors.

And anyone caught with nachos or chili fries: death penalty. No trial, just gun them down in the streets.

[uppityperson]

372. I don't know if it's a serious question, you might though since you are the one who is asking it.

How will putting more rules on what food stamps can be used for address the overall 50% obesity rate? Do you simply want to change diets of those on food program and let the rest of the obese eat whatever? Or are you saying there should be more regulations on food for everyone? I hope this clarifies what I am asking, if not, please let me know and I'll try again.



By the way, I never asked "How will changing what people eat affect obesity rates". That is you, your words, your question. Not sure why you're asking me if you are serious or not as it seems would be easier to simply ask yourself.

[WatsonT]

374. Highest rates of obesity exist in the lowest levels of society

in the US. The poor are more likely to be obese. In theory only the poor are on food stamps.

So let's think about this: would making the diet of the population most likely to be obese more healthy lead to an overall reduction in obesity rates?

That's a tough one.

BTW: using food stamps for junk food (along with our misguided subsidies) helps to make those foods more profitable, and hence more available. Anything that cuts in to their profits would make them less common. If apples could be sold for 50 dollars a pound, for instance, companies would be going out of their way to procure as many apples as possible. The market would be flooded with them. So the profitability of junk food, and it's availability go hand in hand. This is basic economics.

[uppityperson]

377. Link to those assertions please.

"Highest rates of obesity exist in the lowest levels of society in the US. The poor are more likely to be obese. "

Link please. Thank you.

[WatsonT]

379. .

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080207163807.htm

[Quantess]

184. Look how many views this thread has.

Most likely, that means it's linked on one of DU's stalker sites.
This topic is clearly something that gets the neanderthals riled up.

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

200. I think it's just the fact that we know a flamewar is going to happen.

[Name removed]

243. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[backwoodsbob]

190. hear hear

I had to go on food stamps when I first moved to michigan.

you would have thought I was buying cases of malt liquor and prostitutes and an 8 ball on the side with the looks I got.

[FirstLight]

191. AMEN

I remember those food stamps...i hated it. And they were in booklets of different types, a few 20's, a 10, a few fives and some singles...you would have to rifle through all the booklets to find the right dollar amt... Because if you tore them out ahead of time to make it easier, they were considered stolen or no good.

ya, poverty sucks, and prosperity is fleeting at best. I was off the welfare system for about 5 years...then I was on again for a couple more, then off for a couple more, then lost my job and my car was $75 over the property limit, i didn't qualify. I struggled, borrowed from my folks, etc. for another 6 months and re-applied telling them my car was in worse condition so the blue book wouldn't be so high.
It's been another 2 years, and i just got another job, let's see how long this one lasts...

[uppityperson]

192. glitch, reposted below. PLEASE answer

[uppityperson]

193. SERIOUS questions for those who feel they can judge someone on food stamps

Food stamps are paid for out of taxes. If you do not want people buying "junk food" or more than starvation level food, or any sort of allowed food because it wastes YOUR money, what about these other things taxes pay for? Is it ok for us to be judgmental about them? I also want your answers to each of these things since I have paid taxes for many many yrs and it is MY money you are using or wasting.


Schools. Post what grades you got while in public schools to prove you didn't waste my money

Fire fighters. Have you ever had a house or other fire that you needed help with? What was the cause of the fire and why should we not blame it on you?

Police. Have you ever needed one and why was it your fault?

Library. What books have you checked out and why? Have you ever checked out a video other than something needed for your job?

Roads. What type car do you drive? What tires are on it? Does it leak oil? Do you ride a bike and use the roads for free rather than paying license? Do you ever walk on a public road? Do you send money to your county to pay for that useage?

State parks. Have you ever used one? Shame on you.

Do you or anyone in your family get social security? How much have you paid in? How much do you get now?

Do you use municipal water or garbage services? Why should my taxes pay for your water? Go dig a well. Take your own trash to the dump.

Have you ever used an airport or train station unless you needed to travel for work or an emergency?

[WVRICK13]

202. Bravo, Well Stated

You did what you had to do to support your family and that makes you a good parent. So what if you bought one or two small luxuries like a bag of chips or a container of ice cream. That is a small consolation for a month of suffering and barely surviving. I am Director at an agency that dispenses help to families and any employee who would dare make a client feel like a lessor person would be fired immediately. All people who cross our threshold are treated with respect and courtesy. The staff are frequently heard making the comment, "but for the grace of God go I." I had an employee who made clients feel bad and when I found out I fired that employee and informed her that the clients were the reason there were jobs in that office.

[bobbolink]

205. "There but for the grace of God go I" is NEVER heard anymore.

I appreciate what you are saying... if that is how your staff is, it is RARE, and very appreciated.

[WVRICK13]

211. Yes

My staff are trained and retrained and the message is reinforced regularly that they are there to serve not judge. I grew up in a house without electric or running water and I am not THAT old so I know what poor is and I think of how hard my parents worked to see we did not starve. I would not let anyone make my parents feel bad for being poor and if you work for me you better treat every client like they are my parents.

[bobbolink]

212. OMG!! You are indeed a rarity! How did you come up with the training program?

I have been wanting to have a support group for poor people, and one of the things I wanted to come out of that is poor people who would be trainers for the local "help" agency (which is very denigrating to the people who come for "help".

"if you work for me you better treat every client like they are my parents. "

WOW.... this is unheard of!

I had a cop hassling me because I live in my car, and finally said to him, "Is this how you would want your mother treated?" He had the grace to back down at that point, but most don't.

I'm really interested in what you are describing!

[WVRICK13]

289. It Was Done In Stages

Whenever I have a job opening I hire the qualified person who has been closest to the lives our clients live. I will hire a single parent before I hire a second income parent. I have hired a homeless person and used our agency to stabilize their life while they got their feet on the ground. I have taken people into my home until they could make other arrangements. When you have people on staff who have been there, the other more fortunate staff members pay more attention and they learn from each other. Then I bring in people who have escaped poverty and let them train the staff and talk about their lives in poverty and how they felt as children in that situation. I make it a sharing of feelings and not educational text book issues. One trainer who volunteered is now the vice-presidnet of a local college. She talked about how she felt as a child watching people react to her mother paying for groceries with food stamps and how she would cry the entire night before their Friday grocery trips because she was so ashamed. The training occurs every day. If I hear a worker being especially helpful to a client I compliment them. For example, a client was in for food yesterday, instead of getting a voucher for the food pantry and leaving, the case manager encouraged the client to talk about her troubles and what had been happening in her life. A son was recently killed in a car wreck, a husband with terminal cancer that she was caring for and her minimum wage job, plus two small children. the client broke down and the case manager held her and let her cry. When you share your clients pain it is hard to be judgmental. The client left with a food voucher and the knowledge that she was not alone. Things like this are what makes me angry about the proposed budget cuts to social programs. What happens if the weakest among us are really left alone without any assistance?

[CrispyQ]

352. WVRICK13, you are a true humanitarian.

This brought tears to my eyes:

One trainer who volunteered is now the vice-presidnet of a local college. She talked about how she felt as a child watching people react to her mother paying for groceries with food stamps and how she would cry the entire night before their Friday grocery trips because she was so ashamed.

=====
I wish there were more like you working in the system. :hug:

[ejpoeta]

221. thank you for treating the less fortunate with kindness. too many

treat them as a hindrance.

[WVRICK13]

290. Thanks Aren't Necessary

for doing what's right. My heart would die if I didn't help as much as I can.

[DeadEyeDyck]

203. KnR

[Godot51]

204. The Parasitic Poor?

Economically spending of the poor and increasing, the middle class, is the best thing an economy can have.

I mean, think about it. When you live hand to mouth every cent that comes in goes out, it doesn't matter what form those cents are in, cash, credit or food stamps, they're circulating unlike the money of the rich.

It's sickening to hear conservatives speak as if the opposite were true, that those with stocks or big money in the bank are the backbone of the economy.

They are, rather, the belly flab of the economy, slowing it down, clogging it's arteries and eventually killing it.

[bobbolink]

207. For every Federal dollar spent on food stamps, $1.84 is returned to the local economy.

Sadly, it isn't the "conservatives" who are doing the badmouthing... it is the Dems who have a superiority complex. :(

[tpsbmam]

229. So happy I'm not to late to K&R your fabulous post. Thanks for sharing. nt

[Lifelong Protester]

234. Holy crap, I know I'm late to the thread, and just read through it all

I read and hear a lot of compassion, but man, I cannot BELIEVE the vindictive and judgmental nature of some of the DUers in this thread (luckily they seem to be in the minority).

DO NOT JUDGE! For cripe's sake, how many times does that need to be said. We are ALL in a lot more precarious state than we'd like to believe. I think the judgemental types are operating out of fear. They do not even connect with the 'there but for the grace of God..." mentality. To afraid to have any empathy. Guess what folks? We'd better turn up our empathy meters, we are going to need a hell of a lot more of it, as well as a hell of a lot more concern for each other and not just our own shit.

We need to quit trying to take out whatever fear and bitterness we have on folks who we see using assistance. If I have to pay taxes, as in send in a check to the feds every year, I write in the memo: Do not use for bombs.Help the poor with this.

(YES, I do write this...)

[bobbolink]

237. Love your check notation!

Actually, I am glad that the selfish ones have posted.... it gives the rest of you an idea of what some of us live with on a daily basis. And, yes, over time it grinds us down.

We appreciate it very much when some of you speak up against it.... we need to know we are not alone with this kind of ugliness.

[ejpoeta]

356. no, i think it's more of a need to believe if you are on assistance then it must be something

wrong with you because if indeed it is just that you lost your job due to the economy or got sick, then that means that could be them too. i firmly believe this must be the reasons for people being so vindictive and mean about those on welfare. true there is abuse as with anything else, but i believe it to be maybe 5% whereas there are those who think most on welfare are gaming the system or something. we all need help sometime. Food stamps helped, yes, but I also had family that helped me get out of a dark hole. My dad was kind enough to cosign a loan for our house and to move it here after we lost everything in a fire. We lost everything but the clothes on our backs. Our family rallied around us. Red cross gave us vouchers for clothes. We went straight to the clearance rack and stocked up. We had a lot of help to get us where we are today. We are not teetering as bad as others. We have our house paid off now and have only a car loan and a lawn mower loan. We haven't lived high on the hog, but we feel we are doing ok as long as none of us get sick or hurt. We pay property taxes and school taxes. I would say we have paid back any assistance we paid in by now. And I am glad to be able to help others who may be int he same situation as I was. Even if there are a few bad apples, that is such a small minority to try to blame everyone else for.

[Name removed]

235. Deleted message

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[uppityperson]

251. Your problem is people spend money on beer or cigarettes and foodstamps on food?

How does buying food with food stamps and paying for beer with cash abuse the system?

[Name removed]

259. Deleted message

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[OnionPatch]

236. We were on food stamps for a few years when I was young.

My mother worked FULL TIME in a factory that paid such low wages she could barely keep us fed. That our family was eligible for food stamps tells you how low her wages were. I don't know what we would have done without the food stamps. And you are absolutely correct that people on food stamps don't stock up on chips and soda. Like you said, we couldn't have made it through the month that way. They really aren't very generous at all with the food stamps. They give you just enough to eat somewhat healthfully if you budget. My mother was very, very careful about her purchases, buying only basics and things on sale. Steak or seafood were unheard of. Occasionally, she budgeted well enough to afford some sort of treat, a cake or something for a birthday or holiday, and I'm with you on that...so freakin what?! Anyone who says we didn't deserve a piece of cake once in awhile is a cruel and heartless bastard, and never saw my mom come home filthy and exhausted everyday and the welding burn scars on her arms. That she worked full time as hard as she did, yet couldn't afford to feed her family is a perfect example of what was and still is wrong with our economic system.

[xmas74]

255. It's like the posters on here

who thought my kid didn't deserve three dollars worth of Easter candy in her basket. Some here think that if you receive any assistance then your kids shouldn't be able to celebrate a holiday in the way that most do.

A former coworker was laid off at the same time as I was. She had five kids and shortly after the lay off her husband left her for a "younger model". I remember twice a month she'd go to the store with the kids and buy a two two-liters of cheap soda, along with a bag of chips or some popcorn to pop at home. She would then take them to the local library and let them pick out a couple of movies to watch, since rentals at the library are free. They watched a movie and had a special treat twice a month. That's all they had-no going out to eat, no movies or skating or anything else kids get to do. She couldn't afford Little League. The special treat and a free movie was their big entertainment yet a few posters on here wouldn't even allow that to happen.

[Digit]

240. Maybe it is just me

But I don't pay attention to what others are buying or how they are paying for it.

It is none of my business.

Then again, once I had a very rude man behind me in the Express Lane loudly counting my items with his young son present. He was very vocal. I guess he did not read the sign as it was 15 items or less and I had 11. I had about enough when I turned and told him to mind his own business. I was paying cash and did not even have coupons.

It really is something how some people like to stick their nose into other people's business.

It must be hell trying to even get food stamps on top of the humiliation. The last thing you need is someone making comments about what you buy. You have enough to deal with if you need them.

[Name removed]

242. Deleted message

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[MissB]

244. Welcome to DU!

Enjoy your stay.

[Name removed]

245. Deleted message

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[Jmaxfie1]

256. Cool you finally decided to join up! n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

246. No, it's not your business. It's the business of FNS and its designees on your behalf

and they work very hard to keep benefits out of the hands of ineligible people.

[Name removed]

247. Deleted message

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[uppityperson]

253. How is paying for something with your own money "stealing tax revenue"?

[Name removed]

258. Deleted message

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[Quantess]

262. You pay taxes, too.

Where do you suppose your tax dollars go? No, it is smart to ask. Please do, markfall, ask. You may not like the answers, though. None of us do.

[upi402]

248. Republicans I know use food stamps

Liberals I know (us) could use them but don't want to take advantage of a safety net others may need.

Conservatives I know ALL use and abuse the social systems we support. They act like they just want to ruin it. Some get it when they don't qualify, and when found out don't get fined.

Fair? Like that?

welcome to DU

[Name removed]

249. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

250. Deleted sub-thread

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[uppityperson]

254. No, he is concerned because a person with food stamps bought beer with their own money

Somehow that means he is stealing from us. Somehow. Can't quite figure out how.

[IdaBriggs]

288. Without reading the post that prompted your reply, I believe the LOGIC

is that people have money for "extras" because someone else is covering their "necessities". When your "necessities" (or "basics" as I've referred to them elsewhere) are being provided because someone is in "desperate need", it irks that when displayed priorities for discretionary funds aren't FOOD, but entertainment....

[uppityperson]

302. For some, beer and cigs are necessities. That term varies for each of us and being so judgmental

is asinine. Note I am NOT saying you are asinine, but being that judgmental (they bought beer with their own money!) is.

[Pithlet]

393. That's not logic.

There's another name for the viewpoint that insists that those who receive assistance must live subsistent lives.

[uppityperson]

252. Do you check out library books when you are capable of buying your own books?

Why do you misuse my tax dollars in this way when you are capable of buying your own books?

[Name removed]

257. Deleted message

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[Jmaxfie1]

260. I'm a college student too and do agree with you on that point...

I probably could get them also, but don't since I can get by without them. Of course if you go to college and truly need them I have no problem with someone applying. The whole food stamp debate seems to be the hottest and most contested debate on this site since I joined. (only a few days ago). One said says that since its Federal/State money it can be regulated, they other that it can not. Both sides are pretty passionate. So expect to get yelled at no matter what position you take, anyway, welcome! :)

[markfall]

261. Thanks!

And yes, I'm begining to see that, LOL.

[Name removed]

269. Deleted message

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[lunasun]

266. I probably could get them also, but don't since I can get by without them

If someone is getting foodstamps becuz they meet the required income etc. but you choose not too why does that make a difference?
If I use my tax form to get a deduction I am eligible for but someone else doesnt want to itemize becuz they have decided they truly do not need the money ...I do not understand if they are eligible how you decision not to take them sets the bar.
I am not on food stamps just wondering

Also I have heard that before people saying that they could get this or that too and when I ask them if they make under the state level for an indvl they realize that they are really way above the poverty level needed to get aid


I knew someone who lived alone in a house and was making 23K a year and claimed she was living" at poverty level now " and
although I was sad her income dropped, it was still insulting to hear her say that and certainly an insult to real poor people. Everytime she would say that I would say "poverty level if you were a family of 4" .

Sad too so many people at food stamp level do not make it to college and you may ask why cant they better themselves? but that would be another thread I do not think I would want to read at this site!!!

[Jmaxfie1]

271. I was more responding the College kid thing.

But, and rereading my original post, I should have made my position more clear. A lot of students don't use food stamps even though they might be eligible because they don't feel they need them, which usually means that student loans + a job, + help from parents, get them by. I don't find any problem with students applying for food stamps if they truly need them. The situation I was thinking of was students that are already getting plenty of money from their parents applying for food stamps just so they can use the other money for partying and buy CDs and stuff. Of course most people on food stamps don't have a wealthy Daddy to give them free money. I think there is a difference of being a "poor" college student and actually poor. Its one thing to joke about having to eat ramen in College and yet another to have that be your actual future for the rest of your life.

[Name removed]

281. Deleted message

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[Jmaxfie1]

282. What the hell are you talking about?

[Quantess]

284. oops sorry, I meant it about another message.

[Jmaxfie1]

285. oh, ok, no harm done! :) n/t

[Quantess]

270. What is your opinion of the banksters?

In the pretense of caring about "entitlement money".

[Jmaxfie1]

272. Depends on what their Angle is.

A lot of the Food Industry PACs will push an increase in food stamps because, well it benefits them. Is that what you mean?

[Quantess]

275. No, that is not what I meant!

(smacks forehead)
Have you heard about the wall street sell-out, the bank-buy-out?
You know...they were "too big to fail"?

[Jmaxfie1]

277. Oh, corproate welfare, one welfare the Repubs love. n/t

[lib2DaBone]

283. You forgot your drug test...

The Repukes want to drug test yo0u to get food stamps... make sure you are "Worthy" enough to receive food and eat.

How do you feel about abortion in the case of rape or incest? Nope, sorry.. Repukes say you can't have food stamps.

(snark)

[Littlecat]

294. Uh, I realize that this is an unpopular

opinion around here, but I do think that there should be a drug test to receive food stamps. I have to be drug tested for my crappy job that only gives me 3 half days a week. Why not give a test before the government gives people free food. I have no problem with people using drugs but if you are going to go and ask to be included in a program that offers assistance than I don't think it's an unreasonable request. I view it just like an employment drug screen, if you don't want to take the test than you must not want the job. I'm on food stamps and I appreciate how much it helps my family every month. Before you jump all over me , no I'm not a teabagger , I'm about as progressive as you can get. I actually think they should decriminalize marijuana. In my opinion if you can buy drugs than you can buy food.

[WCIL]

298. What is your solution for feeding the children of all these

"drug abusers" when you decide mom can't get food stamps. Is it a child's fault that his mother smoked marijuana?

[uppityperson]

303. That is a good question. Marking to see if Littlecat comes back and answers

I have my theories on what the answer will be, but will wait and see.

[xmas74]

306. Still no answer.

Wonder what happened?

[uppityperson]

309. I tried sending a pm but doesn't have that capability yet. Will try again later.

[xmas74]

310. If they come back to post,

that is.

Who knows?

[Forkboy]

307. Instead of arguing that others should also be drug tested, why not fight to end yours?

[bobbolink]

320. What's the fun in that? Turning anger on others you consider beneath you is the Good Ole' 'Murkin

Way.

O KKK?

[Forkboy]

329. It's a form of denial.

These people truly believe that it can't ever happen to them, that they are above those who need help, and they need to mentally reinforce said belief, because facing the reality that it could happen to them makes them shit bricks. They don't have the courage to face that reality, so they demonize those who they feel they will never be like, creating a buffer zone of denial (and stupidity).

[bobbolink]

336. UNderstand the denial. The process is so like racism, what we think of as the Southern

mentality.....

It is just the same.

And we see it here.

What I have been saying for a long time now is that given that so many forms of prejudice are no longer publically acceptable (racism, homophobia, etc), that peoples' free-floating anger will find a target that is unprotected.... and Muslims and poor people are at the head of that list.

You can see the same form that it takes... all oppression takes the same path.

Sadly, "progressives" have become so convinced of their own superiority that they can't/won't look at their own ccmplicity in all of this.

And guess who suffers because of it.

[Gormy Cuss]

308. Why not ban drug tests for crappy jobs instead?

Workplace drug tests for MOST jobs should be illegal.

[Hugabear]

299. Pretty sure that anybody who makes the "living it up on food stamps" has never been on them

If anyone ever had to spend any prolonged period of time on food stamps, they sure as hell wouldn't be making that claim. It's just fucking stupid.

Besides, it probably never occurs to them that people on food stamps are normal people, and normal people sometimes enjoy treating themselves to junk food. Besides, the sad fact is that often times, junk food is a lot cheaper.

[Littlecat]

335. This is exactly why it took me so long to start

posting on here, you guys jump all over anyone who may have a different opinion from yours. My views are based on personal experience. For example we used to have some neighbors who got a decent amount in food stamps, they had 4 kids between them and neither parent worked. They would sell (or trade) their f.s. for drugs which they would then sell. They always had beer, cigarettes and weed but never food. My middle son was good friends with one of the boys, he was a real sweetheart and we had him over a lot. The first thing I did whenever he came over was ask him if he was hungry, he always said yes and I would always make him something to eat. Sometimes he would bring his brother and two sisters over and I would feed them as well. If they did eat at home it was raman noodles and hot dogs . One time I had just bought some grapes and asked if they wanted some, they had no idea what grapes were! They said that their mom never bought fruit or vegetables ( I think the closest they ever got was a strawberry pop tart). They got evicted a couple of years ago for back rent. I have more examples and more neighbors if you want to hear it. My opinion is based on many personal observations. As I stated in my previous post I don't have any problem with people doing what they want in their own homes, I just don't think it's a big deal to require a drug test for hundreds of dollars a month in food stamps.

[uppityperson]

337. Part of discussing is back and forth stuff. Here's questions asked of you, have you answers?

What is your solution for feeding the children of all these "drug abusers" when you decide mom can't get food stamps. Is it a child's fault that his mother smoked marijuana?


If you post, realize that others may answer. Sometimes they will agree, sometimes disagree, sometimes ask you questions about what you posted. I would be interested in you answering these questions about drug testing and food stamps to see what would come of that testing. It seems simple to say "drug test" but then what? Thank you.

[Littlecat]

339. I'm confused what questions were asked of me?

What do I think should happen to people who test positive? They get kicked off just as if they lied about income or some other eligibility requirement. Was I accused of being superior and looking down on poor people? I'm a single mother of 3 who is on food stamps. I am poor people. All of my neighbors are poor people. I see this reality every day and in my opinion if you are going to ask the government for free food, paid for with my tax dollars you shouldn't be using drugs. In a perfect world maybe the govt. could pay for some rehab, but we don't live in that America right now.

[WCIL]

341. My question was how will the children eat if the parent is kicked off

food stamps? Do you have a solution for that? Thousands (millions?) of children can't just wander over to the neighbors house to be fed.

[uppityperson]

342. Posting them again, these questions. Can you, will you, answer the questions in the message?

What is your solution for feeding the children of all these "drug abusers" when you decide mom can't get food stamps? Is it a child's fault that his mother smoked marijuana?

[Littlecat]

343. I can't beleive that I'm the only

person on here to take this position. I am usually to the far left of every issue but I guess not this time. Maybe its because I'm on food stamps that I feel this way. As I stated earlier I have no problem with people doing whatever they want in their own home, but if you are going to drive down to jobs and family services and ask to be included in a program I don't think it's unreasonable to have certain rules that must be followed. I'm all for programs that provide a public safety net, in fact I think they should increase the income limits. I'm on HEAP and my kids are on medicaid. If I make $10 too much in a month they will kick me off, they don't care how I'm going to feed my kids. So to answer your question yes I would kick people off of food stamps for failing a drug test, maybe not the first time but repeat offenders-yes. This is all hypothetical anyway but if it were up to me I wouldn't even care if people smoked pot I'm more concerned about harder drugs. I know people who do sell their food stamps and they do use this money for drugs. I'm sorry but this is the truth. How would these people feed their children, I don't know. Maybe if it came down to it they would make the right choice. I know if it were between feeding my kids and using drugs it would be an easy decision to make. I don't know what you want me to say, I think I've explained my position pretty clearly.

[Name removed]

345. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Littlecat]

346. Wow, I don't even know what to say anymore.

[bobbolink]

347. Good. Maybe its time to reread Matthew 25.

[uppityperson]

349. Many of us aren't bible readers.

[uppityperson]

348. Personal attacks area against DU rules

clicking alert on them to send a message to the moderators is what one does.

There are all sorts of people here.

[Gormy Cuss]

353. How much of your benefits are you willing to give up for that drug testing program?

Would it be worth it to you to have your benefits reduced by $20 a month to pay for such a program?
The reason I ask is that drug testing WOULD cut into funds available for benefits because of the costs of the tests and the staffing needed for administration and compliance activities. Unless the drug testing kicked off many, many recipients there is likely to be a net loss to the budget and the money would have to come from somewhere, and cutting benefits would be the easiest way to accomplish that.

I understand your frustration at seeing parents who aren't using the aid in the way it's intended. I saw that too. There weren't many but they did stand out and the other mothers were pretty furious about it. However, not one of those mothers was willing to drop a dime on the substance abusing parents because many felt that having the children in state care would be worse.

You can hope that the parents would make the right choice and get clean for the sake of benefits but if they're addicts it's not that easy. They may try to clean up for the test but eventually they'd fail and their children may be put in foster care. The parents may instead chose not to risk that and just stop getting certified and that would put even less food on the table. Is that worth it?

[ejpoeta]

361. why didn't you turn them in to child protective services or something.

they were committing fraud..... you could have turned them in.

[CrispyQ]

350. I've been reading this thread over the past couple of days.

Some of the posts are heartbreaking! The desperation that some of our fellow citizens face & the humiliation that other citizens put them through is shameful. It's shameful that we have so much resentment taking care of our fellow citizens - that we feel it is not our responsibility.

Here's the thing. There are always going to be freeloaders. There are. It's just a reality in human nature. But the question is this: Do we cut off the needy because a few freeloaders might get something they don't deserve? I prefer to err on the side of compassion. I would rather a few freeloaders get something they don't deserve, knowing that hungry children & their parents get help from our tax dollars, then send that child to bed hungry, knowing that at least the freeloaders didn't get a damned thing.

We humiliate & denigrate the most needy in our society & in the meantime, a billion dollars goes missing in Iraq & no one says a fucking word. The mean spiritedness of too many Americans, toward those less fortunate than themselves, is quite stunning & very ugly.

[Desertrose]

359. Beautiful post, CrispyQ. I agree....

We must err on the side of compassion or we lose another piece of our humanity.


:hug:

[Forkboy]

363. +1

[uppityperson]

364. " Do we cut off the needy because a few freeloaders might get something they don't deserve? "

Plus a whole bunch for your post. Exactly. Thank you for putting it so succinctly.

T"here are always going to be freeloaders. There are. It's just a reality in human nature. But the question is this: Do we cut off the needy because a few freeloaders might get something they don't deserve? I prefer to err on the side of compassion. I would rather a few freeloaders get something they don't deserve, knowing that hungry children & their parents get help from our tax dollars, then send that child to bed hungry, knowing that at least the freeloaders didn't get a damned thing. "

[mwooldri]

354. I *hate* the idea of "food stamps".

IMO if there are proper benefits, it should be paid out in cold hard cash (or check, or on a debit card, or direct deposited into a bank account).

Food Stamps, WIC, LIHEAP, Section 8, all these mish-mash of programs. Why not just have one program with two parts? One part covers the roof over your head, picks up the mortgage (within reason), rent, etc... the other is a living allowance that you can choose what you spend it on, including your electric, water, etc bills, enough to eat, some money for discretionary spending and so on.

I don't know if it is the same way across the nation but here in NC the "food stamps" come on a card that looks just like the US flag. I chose at one point (because my card issuer allowed me the option to pick the design) to have the US flag as my card design. Just because of this, I have actually had someone ask me if I was on food stamps!

That's why although "Food Stamps" and other assistance programs are great in principle, it should be no-ones business whether your income is supplemented with a government program or otherwise.

[ejpoeta]

362. Most places have an EBT card now. In NY they have this too.

We had food stamps shortly before they started the cards and might have had them once with the card but I don't remember. I am glad they have it now because most people don't even have to see what people are using. I love that you chose a logo that looks like the EBT card..... guess people wouldn't be able to be so judgmental if everyone had cards that looked the same. LOL! My kids get reduced lunches at school and I was so happy when they started having a system where the kids put in their number and it just comes off their account. so instead of everyone seeing them produce a quarter and knowing they have reduced lunches, they look like everyone else and no one knows who is getting reduced lunches.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

365. IdaBriggs doesn't want poor people to eat healthy.

They said they wanted them to eat low quality food on those food stamps. So they won't have energy, I guess, to punish them.

:shrug:

[uppityperson]

368. Just enough to keep from starving and only if they are starving

Because, after all, it would be a waste of our tax money to do more than that, right?

shrug indeed.

[Skip_In_Boulder]

366. I know I'm living large on Food Stamps while I wait for Disability to come through

I never really knew there were so many ways to make hot dogs.

[OswegoAtheist]

367. I keep coming back to this thread...

...and I wish I could recommend it more than once. My family has been on "the stamps" for years now, because we live in an area of New York that has been economically in the toilet for a generation (in fact, I'm separated from them for the duration of my college career so that we can GTFO of Upstate NY). Even though poverty is rampant in this area, and unemployment is well over 10% (and way too many are underemployed), people still hover over my groceries, as if they were suddenly given the power to decide which items were allowed or not.

Oswego "And I'm not even going to start on the hoops we've had to jump through for years" Atheist

[bobbolink]

369. The blatant Calvinism does keep one coming back, doesn't it?

The only thing that will end this is for poor people to overcome the Calvinist judgmentalism and come together and support eachh other, and for muddleclass people to get over their specialism and embrace us.

[ejpoeta]

380. I am sorry you are going through that but at least you are working your way out of it.

I live in WNY and there are a lot of wingers around here. They keep voting against their own interests and blame the dems for what they get.... while i think the dems have plenty of blame for a lot the fact that they vote for the people who do the most for big business and could give a shit about any of us boggles my mind. good luck and i hope you can get in a better place.

[Skittles]

373. lovely testimony, ejpoeta

I'm not religious but JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED is sound advice. A few years ago a gal with a young boy was in front of me at the supermarket checkout, using both cash and food stamps, but was a bit over - I handed her a 5 dollar bill - she said she couldn't take it but I said yes you can....she thanked me - anyways, when I went out and got into my car, the woman was loading her groceries - that young boy came running over to me and said, "Thank you for helping my mom." Oooh I get tears in my eyes every time I think about it. :cry:

[ejpoeta]

382. k&r!! who are we if we cannot help each other. i like to say it is selfish for me

to help someone else. it makes me feel so good. and like that guy upthread who seems to think everyone is playing the system, i too have been screwed by those i have helped, but i refuse to let that sour me. People are generally decent. I have gotten enough help from others and I believe in paying it forward.

[half_life]

376. Yeah it's all fun and games isn't it?

Just lost my food stamps. Long story short. Laid off of job I had for 30 years (We're out of money, today's your last day-we'll escort you to your car). Apply for unemployment. Lose health insurance(COBRA is $1500 a month that I don't have). I have diabetes, DH is bi-polar. DH goes off meds trying to save money, has a manic episode. Can't go to hospital because we have no insurance. Unemployment pays about half what I earned when working. Apply for food stamps, they approve us for $200 a month for a family of 4. Not sure why we suddenly lost the food stamps so that means probably several days of phone calls and office visits to correct.

[ejpoeta]

383. I swear it's like they think people will give up. like with disability where they seem to force you

where they deny you so you'll give up and go away. maybe that's not it, but I swear i am starting to get that feeling. I mean for sure that's what the deal is with insurance companies forcing you to fight for it. I hope you can get that straightened out... that's what the safety net is supposed to be there for. shouldn't you be able to get medicaid too? have you tried to apply for that?

[half_life]

385. It's a night mare

Apparently we have one too many cars to qualify for medicaid, you're only allowed 1 and that can't be worth more than $2,000. In fact you can't own anything totaling more than $2,000 or you are automatically disqualified. We have applied for disability for my DH but have been turned down once, suposedly they turn everyone down at least once=we can appeal but the process will take about 2 years. I have to order my diabetic meds from India so I can afford them but they don't carry everything and we have to get his meds here.

[lonestarnot]

384. Can I just give you a hug.

:hug: :loveya:

[ejpoeta]

386. sure. i am so surprised by so many posts! this is the most i've ever gotten and it was just

out of frustration. i am so glad to see so many who understand.

[LeftishBrit]

389. Great post

In the UK we don't have 'food stamps' as such; people on benefits are given a certain limited amount which they can spend as they wish. Contrary to RW-ers' stereotypes, few get a lot!

In any case, I think all policymakers and politicians should have to live on benefits for even a couple of weeks; it might end some of the stereotypes.

[RoccoR5955]

394. I heard someone on our local NPR affiliate say that people get $1k/month for food stamps.

They started this two hour talk thing. Now mind you, WAMC, my local affiliate, is quite good, but I believe that they have drawn out the dreck of society with this one. It used to be an hour, but they, for some reason, expanded it to two. They generally allow people to voice whatever views they have. Now with the budget problems here in NY State, it was one afternoon last week, when the nuts were falling out of the trees, and this MORON says that if Cuomo wants to balance the budget, he should stop the people who all get $1000 a month in food stamps. He also wanted to know how he could get them.

I have been broke, and know what a stigma it was to use those stamps, and I know what a horrendous hassle it was to get a lousy $40/month. That was back in 1980. So I know what a pain it is.

This guy just got me quite mad. I don't know that people are getting so much on food stamps. Most people I see on them are single mothers, from the poorer part of town. WTF does the moron on the radio think these single mothers and their kids should do, starve?

Well, the emcee just politely let the idiot speak, and told him to have a nice day. I dunno. It really gets me steamed, when people are so stupid to believe this bovine fecal matter.

[ejpoeta]

395. they are sold a bill of goods by faux news that tells them this shit.

the only ones i could see with that much in food stamps would be foster parents and i bet they wouldn't even get that much. because foster kids get food stamps AND medicaid. But the woman I knew who was a foster parent to her five neices and mephews I don't believe got even close to that much in food stamps and she had five kids to feed!! granted, this was in the early 90s, but i would think she got maybe $500 for five kids for a month. and i bet it wasn't even that much.