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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:34 AM
Original message
RW is emboldened to attack public pensions because Dem policy is almost the same.
That's perhaps why we are not hearing too much talking out on the real issue of public employee pensions. I noticed a couple of Democrats today came out and said to not bash unions, and that's a good thing.

But it appears to me that their new policy shop, The Third Way, is giving almost the same advice as the right wing appears to be getting. The talking points coming from them are scarily similar to those of the Right.

This is from an op ed right after the election written by two leaders of the The Third Way Democratic think tank.

Here is the op ed from Politico:

How the Democrats can stay relevant

First off they blame the loss of the 2010 elections on the fact that we did not stay enough in the "middle". Then they lecture the Left on pension reform. Sounds very familiar. Note the way they use the word "liberal". New think tank, same old BS about liberals that we got from the DLC.

To prove that Democrats got the voters’ message about excessive government spending, the party must prove it is tough enough to take on the most sacred liberal programs: reforming federal pensions.

More than two million federal employees are now beneficiaries of a pension system that is far more generous than anything available to private sector workers with the same skills. Reforming the system so that federal employees contribute roughly the same amount that private employees contribute would save more than $250 billion dollars over the next two decades.


Well, in Florida that is part and parcel of our benefits package...it's in lieu of more raises.

Then these two guys talk about how "gutsy" the party would be to take on the "special interest group", which I assume means public employees. Nice, huh. Tell me how that is different than the 3 governors who are catering to the tea baggers? It's not different.

Here is the bio of the two authors:

Jim Kessler, vice president of policy at Third Way, served as policy director for Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.). Jon Cowan, president of Third Way, served as Chief of Staff of the Department of Housing and Urban Development under Secretary Andrew Cuomo.


This gutsy move would show that Democrats are not beholden to any special interest group and are prepared to challenge their own orthodoxies as they seek to modernize programs they championed in the 20th century.

There are lessons to be learned from Tuesday's election that go well beyond being in a recession and the fickleness of today’s swing voters. If Democrats don't heed them – and promote a bold, forward-looking growth agenda that inspires centrists and the middle class – they may have to get used to minority status.


That is the same interpretation given to why the party loses for decades. They keep saying it, and they keep losing. 2008 the party was more receptive to its left wing, and the DNC was opening up the states and moving some of the power out of DC.

There is an article this week at the Daily Beast by Kirsten Powers, who last I heard was Fox News favorite Democrat. It makes sure to put us in our place and let us know that although the DLC ended the centrists are still in control.

DLC Shut Down: The Democrats’ New Power Base

The Democratic Leadership Council may be shutting down, but the progressives haven’t won. Centrism is alive and well in the think tank Third Way, whose advice on health care and the economy has swayed the White House.


There it is in black and white....progressive haven't won. That is made clear to us every election whether we win or lose. And yes, if you peruse the Third Way site...you will see that she is right. Their words are practically the same as that of the party leadership.

This next part of Kirsten Powers column is really snide and condescending. The centrists have done that for years to us, and I for one am very tired of it.

Throwing more water on the left’s delusion that centrism has been shown the door, Obama recently hired a trio of powerful centrists—the aforementioned Bill Daley, Gene Sperling, and Bruce Reed—to reorient his administration toward a more pragmatic strategy.

Reed, who previously headed the Democratic Leadership Council, is now Vice President Biden’s chief of staff. That’s not exactly Siberia for the centrists.

The reality is that even those on the left who deride centrism could find a lot to like in the work of Third Way if they could stop hyperventilating with the same recycled accusations from the intra-party battles of the past.

Contrary to the claims of the Daily Kos crowd, Third Way is not a shill for corporations. If they shill for anyone, it is the middle class, and that’s something every Democrat should be able to get behind.


That is pure baloney.

I remember a Democrat who once said that unions helped build the strong middle class in this country. That was in 2003. I don't see him out and about anymore standing up for unions and pointing that their pensions an important part of their income for which most accept less pay in return.

Small wonder the extreme right wing folks who were newly elected as teaparty leaders actually feel bold enough to go after public employees and pensions.

They do not expect a fight from Democratic leaders, and they probably won't get one.

What is going on in Wisconsin warms my heart. I only feel sad because I doubt I will see Floridians fighting back.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. The echoes of history are informative
we have been here before, and this is spreading. The third way will be discarded or both parties will face a third one and one will disappear, nature of the beast.

This will make the policy wanks start to think about what they can get away with without the people going to the line.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Yes, it is spreading.
It's like one big rightward pull with no party resisting.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Forgive me, but did I imagine the resistance in the streets?
As usual that is where long term dynamics change in this country... in the streets.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Oh, I agree.
But there is too little, and the media backs off from covering it after a few days. Remember the huge Iraq war protests...we knew they were there but not covered by the media except very briefly.

And I fear too many states under attack by tea bagger govs and legislators will not fight back...I can not see that happening in Florida.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. It's started
that is what scares the RW and conservadems
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. That's true.
It has started. I am trying to get the feel from some folks I know here who are still teaching, but everybody in that field here is scared silly at making waves. Rightfully so, I fear. I was always a wave maker before I retired, and I was called down on it often.
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. As Thom Hartman likes to say.....we need to take back the Democratic Party.
Tag....were are it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yes, we are it.
And we are not yet organized enough.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. Blue Dogs are at it again. Why did so many Blue Dogs lose???
If they keep going right they will go over the cliff and
suffer more losses.

They have never been in the Center. They started the year
Center Right. Duh. Center Right is the Center of the Republican
Party. It they go much farther they will be over there with
the Radicals. Blue Dogs are conservative. They should
stand up and show how nutty the Righties are becoming and
yes say this is not your father's Republican Party.

No one in Congress seems to know where the Center is.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Here's the thing, though. They think of themselves as beyond party divides.
You know all the bipartisan, post partisan stuff we have heard ever since we won in 2008???

That means one party...so they really don't care about standing for us.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. Third Way planned SOTU "prom night" bipartisan seating.
Looks like their ideas get a lot of play.

"On a more stylistic note, Third Way suggested in a letter to leaders of both parties that members of Congress should drop the partisanship at the State of the Union and sit with someone from across the political aisle. The group also posted a white paper, “The History of Partisan Seating at the State of the Union,” and some influential journalists picked up on the idea. The SOTU prom night was born."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-02-09/dlc-shutting-down-third-way-is-the-democrats-true-centrist-powerhouse/full/
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. They feel the wind at their backs...
if the democratic party as a whole (president and everyone else) doesn't settle this union issue they can kiss their relevancy goodbye.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. My fear is that they won't stand up for unions at all.
And they can say that the left has nowhere to go.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. If that's the case then we go our own way...
and carve out something new.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. In fact the Democrat I referred to in the OP did make a statement about pensions....
the other day. I was a little disappointed because he did not point out that many already contribute to pensions and more than many contribute to health care. In fact in our area now teachers must pay 1500 a month for family health care, in addition supposedly to the district's contribution. And the pensions are part of the negotiated union contract, which usually means lower salaries. FL is not well known for high salaries for teachers, the benefits have been in the pensions.

Dean had a chance to point out that public workers are not causing the crises, and he did not. He said he felt though that they should contribute to both health care and pensions. Many already do, and the ones that don't take less salary.

Sometimes you have to take a stand and quit being in the mushy middle and never offending. Disappointed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILoGq937l6w
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. Democrats are Done - Republicrats Rule Now, RepublicratUnderground!
I'm watching my party turn to shit. And right here is the best view. Where do they come from? Soon Joe Lieberman will be considered a Liberal Democrat if he isn't already!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Did you read the words I quoted? I referred to policy on public pension reform.
And that is exactly the stand they are taking. In fact the teachers' unions have been treated badly the last two years. Now that some of us are yelling, they are trying to make a few amends...but still not backing off. Arne has changed a few of his words, but he's saying the same thing basically.

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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yes, I read it, and you quoted the Third Way.
I think that's very deceptive, madfloridian. Third Way is not mainstream Democratic policies at all. I think it's deceptive because you KNOW what you wrote was untrue of the Democratic party.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Oh, but yes it is indeed now.
The abortion issue, teachers, education, public employees....yes, their policies listed are in fact very very close to where our party is now.



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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. There is no 'third way', there are only two sides...

Capital and Labor.

You're on one side or the other. When was the last time the Democratic Party did something for labor other than lip service?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I hope this will force some voices to stand up for labor.
They have gotten away with ignoring union and letting the right attack them relentlessly. You are right, it is time to take sides.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. By their acts ye shall know them. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-11 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
33. +1000% --
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. k&r
I think the party is beyond saving by now, but I still think this point is worth shouting about. Labor should have never coupled its fortunes to a political party, we shouldn't just be fighting back for labor because it is a Republican making the savage attacks. If the Democratic party hadn't been eroding labor for years, the right wing would never have been emboldened to roll the clock back 100 years.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. ...........
Thank you. :hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
26. Third Way spouting pension reform as well back in Sept last year
Urging Democrats to push ahead of the GOP in calling for reform of federal pensions.

Yet there was an extension of tax cuts for the very richest and all the tough talk about "shared sacrifices."

http://perspectives.thirdway.org/?p=863

They note that most people don't think Soc. Sec. and other "entitlements" (their words) need to be phased out. Then say recommend a way to change their minds. They want to change their minds? Note they used the words "sacred cows" again...I hate that term.

"And when it comes to the deficit, as indicated in a recent Third Way poll, most believe that the core of the problem is excessive spending on things like the infamous Bridge to Nowhere in Alaska, not entitlements. When asked if it was necessary to scale back Social Security or Medicare, an astonishing 75 percent in our survey said it was not, including 76 percent of independents.

However, there is an idea that could help change this dynamic: federal pension reform."

"Properly done, pension reform would demonstrate to a skeptical public that we take seriously their concerns about an overly large federal work force. It would show that there are no sacred cows in this debate as the federal government would make the first major contribution to deficit reduction with its own employees. And it would prove that we can cut spending without impeding economic growth."
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. It's a race to the right
and we're disenfranchised as they abandon us.
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Lord Magus Donating Member (443 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
28. It's not about attacking public employee pensions. That's just a side issue.
Republicans' goal is to break the unions.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I agree. I have written a lot about the busting of teachers' unions.
And it is not just Republicans.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
31. K&R nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-11 01:26 AM
Original message
These are all long settled issue -- from TORTURE to UNIONS which Dem Party isn't defending!!
Edited on Sun Feb-20-11 01:28 AM by defendandprotect
That's why we're having to fight for this stuff all over again!!

And that's another reason why we are in in such SHOCK at what's going on --

any defense of what's right in America is largely not being defended by the

Democratic Party! In fact, they have overwhelmingly cooperated in trade

agreements, wars -- tax cuts for rich -- trampling of single payer -- on and on!!

PLEASE tell me I've simply missed their efforts to protect us from the right wing!!



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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-11 01:26 AM
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-11 03:58 AM
Response to Original message
34. All DLCers need to be purged. (nt)
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-11 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
35. The Third Way and No Labels are the spawn of the DLC and should face the same fate.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-11 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
36. The 3d Way and "New" Democrat crap was old fashioned already in the 90's
when it was first introduced.

It has been really painful to see it pushed again, even after our country has been pushed further and further to the right.
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