2009 LIHEAP subsidy to be ended due to spike ending in energy prices....and other things.

[uponit7771]

"....The LIHEAP program doubled in FY 2009 following an energy spike, but energy prices are now significantly lower, and the prior level is no longer sustainable. The 50 percent funding reduction brings funding back to the level before the energy price spike. The Administration will continue to monitor energy prices going forward and will be willing to revisit program needs if there are significant price increases..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=611473&mesg_id=611473

I said last week I'd wait but I was leaning on the side of people AGAIN overreacting to FUD'rs, our sloppy ass'd US media and not paying attention...

[phleshdef]

1. Natural gas prices in particular have dropped off from where they were.

[cali]

7. and oil has risen. in the northeast most people heat with oil.

[phleshdef]

14. Overall energy costs have still declined since the 2009 spike.

[cali]

19. that's cold comfort to those that live in the Northeast.

[Hello_Kitty]

32. Link please. eom

[MadHound]

2. And yet the cold, hard fact is that Obama is proposing cutting LIHEAP by 350 million dollars

You can try and spin it all you want, but you can't escape that one, salient fact, that 350 million dollars will be cut from LIHEAP. That will mean that fewer people will get less assistance, and if we have a winter like the one we've just had, and energy prices continue to climb, people will die.

But hey, keep spinning. It's amusing to watch how certain folks will try to explain these cold hearted cuts away.

[cali]

8. you're wrong. he's proposing cutting it by more than 2.5 BILLION dollars

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-14/vt-delegation-protests-plan-for-heating-aid-cut.html

[MadHound]

9. OMG, that's even worse!

Geez, people are going to be dying by the droves next winter.

[Badfish]

65. Oh please.

"dying by the droves"

Can we stop it already ?

[uponit7771]

18. Might has well linked FAUX news, even when BB is positive towards Obama theyre slanted..

...and again the price he quotes is NOT 2009s uptick it's last years.

come on people, these folk are aholes....there's little reason to take anything they say without a cow lick of salt.

[superduperfarleft]

29. It looks like they got their numbers from here:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/hopu/hopu.asp

[uponit7771]

10. Spin is not stating both sides of a perspective, of course the anit Obama crowd usually states the..

...negative and leaves explanations etc out of the discussion like it was done last week.

Regards

[MadHound]

34. Hows about this for both sides then

Propane is at a record high, heating oil costs are rising, the number of LIHEAP recipients is at a record high, and each billion cut from the program means that a million people are shut out of assistance, and the rest of those left will receive less assistance.

<http://stage-v4.federalnewsradio.com/?sid=2264180&nid=37>

So try looking at that side for awhile, then tell me how it is OK to consign millions to the cold, millions to even more problems, and who knows how many to death next winter.

[Rex]

62. Notice how you get nothing back from the 'experts'?

Just crickets. You finally present them with something they can't SPIN and...silence. OTOH, speaks volumes to everyone else in DUland.

[sad sally]

61. Oil & gas companies must make billions - it's the law!

And you can bet they're hot-footing lobbyist over to the floors of congress to stop any pesky legislation to close any "so-called" loopholes. Exon NEEDS another $145,000,000 tax refund. So a few dozen old people freeze to death, so the babies turn blue - they're poor, they're expendable, oh yeah, and hard cuts have real impacts - blame the oil companies, not the generous government.

[Hello_Kitty]

3. Have energy prices gone down 100% since 2009?

[uponit7771]

11. 50% for heating and natural gas

[Hello_Kitty]

15. Link please. eom

[uponit7771]

20. Sorry that was for funding reduction not pricing, I have no idea on pricing but no one is stating...

...2009 prices compared to now they're stating last years to make a slanted point IMHO

[cali]

26. Of course you have no idea. Nothing could be clearer than that.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truebrit71]

25. No. Heating oil has gone up.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-14/vt-delegation-protests-plan-for-heating-aid-cut.html

[SDuderstadt]

4. I call them DU's...

shoot-first, ask-questions-later brigade. They reflexively react without even knowing what they are reacting to.

Too funny.

[aquart]

5. Pasture pastry.

[cali]

6. that's just garbage. heating oil prices are way up

<snip>

They also note that home heating oil prices have risen by about 70 cents per gallon over last year, to about $3.50 per gallon now.

<snip>

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-14/vt-delegation-protests-plan-for-heating-aid-cut.html

[truebrit71]

12. Please don't confuse them with facts...

..it spoils the propaganda...

[uponit7771]

13. To 2009 levels? Also, LIHEAP didn't just cover heating oil, that's only a part of the story...again

[cali]

22. well above 2009 prices

Average high was 3.05. And again, what about the millions who heat with oil in the NE? I love how eager you are to write them off as merely being a part of the story.

[truebrit71]

31. You would be too if you were paid to misinform..

...and spin...frankly I'm stunned they're not dizzy...

[uponit7771]

46. That's for heating oil and gas, LIHEAP pays for more than that. Can you show the TOTAL risen or fall

...from 2008-2009 year not 2009-2010 in which the White House wasn't referring to.

[superduperfarleft]

48. Why don't you provide your own links?

Other people have posted numerous links, but they're "never good enough." Why don't you dig up your own? You're the one who is making the assertion that heating oil prices have not risen. Why should everyone else have to do your research for you (which you clearly should've done before starting this thread)?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Oh, shush! Just put on another sweater or move to Arizona you mean FUD'r.

It's all good..if you're rich.

[cali]

23. Seriously, it's lucky I heat with wood. I could never afford heating oil.

[truebrit71]

24. I wonder, is FUD'r the new "professional left"...should we all just STFU?

...I am BEYOND tired of the centrist horseshit being paraded around as liberalism these days...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Hell, I'm old enough to remember when the "good Democrats" called us Reds.

[truebrit71]

28. LOL!!!

..can't belive the crap we're being told to accept as the new normal anymore...

[Hello_Kitty]

30. What's FUD'r? Seen that a few times today.

Is it the new DFH?

[truebrit71]

33. It's an acronym used by the DLC centrist's to poo-poo those that aren't in lock step with the Prez.

..Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.

You know, shut up, nothing to see here, move along...

[uponit7771]

36. No, it's a geek term but discribes folk who usually tell half the story on the net.

[Hello_Kitty]

38. Apparently it's an accusation of paid trolling too.

Made against longtime DU donors by someone (you) who doesn't have a donor star by their name.

[truebrit71]

39. My check has obviously gotten lost in the mail...

...:evilgrin:

[Hello_Kitty]

41. LOL!

I don't care if someone's not a donor per se but when a non-donor accuses longtime members and donors like that it pisses me off.

[Dappleganger]

42. Do you have any idea how many folks here have donated stars?

[Hello_Kitty]

43. Many, and I was the beneficiary of one last year.

Doesn't negate my point at all. You generally have to establish yourself as a legit poster here to have something like that bestowed on you.

[Dappleganger]

44. Well, whether or not a person has a star has no bearing

on whether or not they're a credible poster, IMO. I prefer to go by what they say and how they back it up.

[uponit7771]

47. Right now the WH has said energy prices have falling since 2009 and their counter is no it hasnt but

...they wont show a 2008-2009 energy cost from a credible source.

Someone show 2009-2010 but that's not the years the WH was referring to in the link

[superduperfarleft]

50. So show me a link from 2008 that shows they haven't risen.

Instead of continuing to move the goalposts, you could end this argument right now if you can come up with some evidence for your assertion.

[Hello_Kitty]

53. Why don't you show the chart the WH is referencing? You've been asked for it.

You made the initial claim that prices went down.

[Hello_Kitty]

52. When they're accusing long time DUers and donors of trolling it does.

The poster I'm talking about, who as of just now has a star (good for them!) was accusing long time DUers of paid trolling.

[Dappleganger]

54. That's against DU rules

they need to be mod-alerted.

[Hello_Kitty]

55. The person is accusing others of being non-credible posters, that is my point.

[Dappleganger]

56. Sent you a PM.

[Ignis]

59. It's a personal attack employed when one can't dispute the argument.

I miss the woodchuck-inspired days when we were nastily being called "idealists"--as if that's a horrible thing for a progressive to be called.

[mmonk]

16. It's ok. Hugo Chavez will take care of our poor's heating needs anyway.

[Lucinda]

17. My elec went from 124 - to 200 - to 300 over the past three months

and my usage is down from last year. Higest price ever. In my world, thats an energy price spike.

[madfloridian]

37. Did someone tell Senators Reed and Snowe?

http://www.thestatecolumn.com/state_politics/rhode-island/sen-jack-reed-senators-seek-to-prevent-billions-in-cuts-to-liheap-aid/

"Sen. Jack Reed released the following statement:

WASHINGTON, DC – In response to reports that President Obama’s Fiscal Year 2012 budget proposal will contain over $2.5 billion in cuts to the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP), U.S. Senators Jack Reed (D-RI) and Olympia J. Snowe (R-Maine) are leading the bipartisan effort to protect funding for this essential program. LIHEAP is a federal block grant program that provides states with annual funding to operate home energy assistance programs for seniors and low-income households.

Today, Senators Reed, Snowe, and 29 of their colleagues are sending a bipartisan letter urging the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) to reconsider this decision in light of the economic hardships facing low-income families and seniors.

“At a time when we must all confront the challenges of the deficit, we must first take great care to prioritize and protect the programs that are providing struggling Americans with critical assistance in these difficult times,” said Senator Reed, a longtime champion of LIHEAP. “To cut this critical funding during one of the coldest winters in recent memory would not only be devastating for the individuals who rely on LIHEAP to keep their families safe and warm, but would serve as a threat to our national economic recovery.”

[cali]

40. Also Senator Collins, Leahy, Kerry and Sanders

[Vinca]

45. Apparently someone forgot to tell New Hampshire fuel oil dealers.

I nearly fainted when I heard the price per gallon this year. We couldn't have survived without our pellet stove and we're not people who would qualify for LIHEAP.

[uponit7771]

49. NH doesn't = the whole US. No one is offering a credib'e counter to the WH claimes of pricess fallin

...other than to state the 2009-2010 years in which the WH wasn't refering to in their explanation.

[cali]

51. No, but add Maine, MA, VT, RI, NY, NJ, CT

and you're talking about a lot of folks. duh.

[Blue_In_AK]

60. Also rural Alaska

which heats with diesel and has astronomical fuel costs every year.

[Hello_Kitty]

57. Where are the WH's data?

Still waiting.

[superduperfarleft]

58. Yeah, me too. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

63. I'm not paying lower prices at all

Sorry about that.

[MadHound]

64. You have been proven wrong again and again,

Really now, give it up, your argument has been refuted, it has been shown for the spin it is.
<http://stage-v4.federalnewsradio.com/?sid=2264180&nid=37>

Currently we have a record high price for propane, heating oil prices on the rise, a record number of people, for the third year in a row, taking advantage of LIHEAP.

Not to mention that for every billion dollars cut, a million people will be thrown out of the LIHEAP program.

That means 2.5 million people will have to decide between rent or heat, food or heat, medicine or heat, living or dying.

Your arguments are void, proven to be nothing but spin. All you are doing is making yourself look foolish. Refute me with facts, if you can.