Let's be Democrats and call them "social programs"...not "ENTITLEMENTS"

[Ken Burch]

"Entitlements" is nothing but a right-wing propaganda term. It was invented to imply that social benefits were special favors given to people who didn't really deserve them, rather than essential services necessary to allow everyone to live out their days with dignity.

No Democrat should EVER use the word "Entitlements" to describe Social Security, Medicare, or any other surviving achievement of the New Deal or the Great Society. Every time a Democrat uses the "E-word", she or he aids the enemies of the working-class-to-poor Rainbow Majority of this country.

Don't spread propaganda for our enemies, people!

[slackmaster]

1. Entitlement is a legal term that's been in use for a long time.

No Democrat should EVER use the word "Entitlements" to describe Social Security, Medicare, or any other surviving achievement of the New Deal or the Great Society.

You are half right, because the New Deal programs aren't entitlements. Some of the benefits of the Great Society are entitlements. We should not be ashamed to call by its proper name that which we were not ashamed to create.

BTW Ken, did you know there was already a GD thread on pretty much the same subject?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x372708

[Ken Burch]

3. Yes...but this question of word usage deserved a thread of its own

we should NEVER, under any circumstances, use any phraseology that Republicans use. Using their words always dooms us to defeat.

[slackmaster]

15. We should call things by their proper names regardless of what anyone else does

There's no need to get sucked into their game.

[hugo_from_TN]

16. I'll stick with entitlements, which is what they are.

Thanks for your concern.

[Ken Burch]

18. So you'll keep using right-wing language.

You're just helping the other side when you do that.

[hugo_from_TN]

28. I'll keep using the correct terminology regardless of what others do with it.

[Ken Burch]

29. It's simply common usage enforced by the established corporate media-political complex

There's no reason for you to regard it as sacred, especially when its use plays no positive role.

[rfranklin]

22. We should just superglue their horrid little mouths closed...

so they won't be able to enunciate entitlements.

[Ken Burch]

43. Couldn't leave it at their MOUTHS, though...

...just sayin'...

[mrcheerful]

2. Social Programs = socialism

[patrice]

32. We shouldn't be afraid of that word. We should DEFINE it proactively. nt

[mrcheerful]

58. Problem is they link socialism with the USSR and Cuba type

communist government. The R's have used the word socialism since McCarthy went on his witch hunt in the early 50's so it is deeply embedded into the wing nuts minds that socialism = communism. Also their great demented leader Reagan used socialism to describe communism which means you can not now change the wing nut mind or even the independent mind that socialism is not communism, it is a belief now with them.

[RegieRocker]

59. Who cares you can't fix stupid. So call it what it is. Socialism is the

foundation of tribal communities where it all began. That is why dividing is to conquer.

[Xenotime]

62. Thank you. Socialism, when done correctly, is better than anything else out there.

[oldhippie]

4. Obama used the term "Entitlements" during his speech yesterday ...

... to the US Chamber of Commerce. He didn't seem to have a problem with it, and everyone knew what he was talking about.

[JuniperLea]

10. I like when he uses their words and terms against them...

I knew what he was talking about, he knew, and the GOP CoC knew too.

[Smashcut]

60. Yeah, that's the ticket, he's using their terms "against" them

*wink* *wink*

[Bluebear]

31. Using Obama as an example is not convincing.

He buys into a lot of the right wing talking points.

[tabatha]

5. SS should be called an investment.

[robcon]

6. Entitlements= budgeted not as a lump but to everyone who is entitled to the benefits

It's the correct term. Economists call them 'transfer payments.' Congress calls them entitlements.

[CTyankee]

13. You know and I know the correct term. But the RW is giving new meaning

to the term entitlements. They've distorted it to look like some people feel entitled but really aren't and that they're "special" handouts...

[hugo_from_TN]

20. So Republicans think people aren't entitled to them and are

using the word 'entitlements' to drive that point home. OK. :shrug:

[CTyankee]

38. Well, they're always using the term so they must think it DOES drive that point home!

[robcon]

25. I don't worry much about what the RW calls them.

n/t

[Matariki]

7. Entitlement means something people are ENTITLED TO because they paid for it.

"Social program" sounds like welfare or some other government program that can be changed or taken away at any time.

I agree with you that the Republicans have been mis-using the word 'Entitlement' as if it were something dirty. But they are wrong - and any messing with Social Security is going to backfire on them BIG TIME.

[JuniperLea]

12. Well said...

We are indeed entitled to that for which we have paid!

[slackmaster]

17. Unemployment is NOT an entitlement because you DID pay into it, food stamps are

Because a person who has never paid any tax can qualify for food stamps.

[TK421]

52. you just answered the question I was about to ask! thanks

because I know lots of people look at unemployment as a handout; I've paid into it since I was 16 and working, so it would be a false statement

[killbotfactory]

8. People SHOULD feel entitled to basic human rights, ffs.

Food, shelter, an education, a dignified retirement, etc.

[du_da]

11. Just keep in mind

when you are making that argument that every entitlement has to have a source from which it is provided, because that is the hurdle we face.

[spanone]

14. every paycheck we invest and source social security. no hurdle there.

[du_da]

63. And you don't see why they have a problem with that?

Not saying they are right, but there is a legitimate basis for their position.

[CTyankee]

9. Safety net programs sounds pretty good to me.

I think most Americans would pretty much agree that there should be a safety net. After all, everyone has just gone thru a grinding recession and they know that the floor can drop from underneath their feet at any time. It doesn't mean you don't work and support yourself and your family in normal times. It just means that despite your efforts you CAN need a safety net.

Social Security isn't an entitlement and I always correct people who say it is.

[Ken Burch]

27. I'm not sure I even like "safety net"

That was Reagan's term for the concept of a MINIMAL social welfare system...and it was laden with spite and resentment(as if no one REALLY even had the right to expect their fellow human beings to help them avoid starvation and homelessness).

We shouldn't use any terms based on unjustified resentment towards the poor.

[CTyankee]

37. I never heard it used in that way...

but does it matter really? A safety net CAN mean programs that you need when you need them. Maybe Reagan meant it as a slam on the poor but there is no reason we can't say what WE mean it is. Medicare is for the elderly who increasingly need more health care as they get older and everyone who lives long enough will be in that situation. Medicaid is for people who are younger but need medical care and can't afford or even get health insurance. I see no problem or shame in any of that.

[Lex]

19. ENTITLED TO because they already PAID FOR IT.

See?

"Social programs" sounds more flimsy than something people are entitled to because of their payment into it already.

[upi402]

21. I am entitled to an opposition party

that behaves like an opposition party. Otherwise we're essentislly disenfranchised.

[Ken Burch]

23. True dat.

n/t.

[callous taoboy]

24. "Don't Think of an Elephant." It's all about framing the issue.

You are spot on. We might even call them "programs that help people survive."

[Ken Burch]

26. Maybe "People Programs" would be best.

n/t.

[oldlib]

30. The GOOP has their definition of Entitlement.

The Democrats have theirs. The difference is that the GOOP looks on it as a giveaway and it has a negative connotation, whereas the Democrats ascribe the true, positive meaning, not a giveaway, but to qualify for the program. The true meaning has no doubt and should be a proud assertion by our side.

[HughBeaumont]

33. "Entitlement" = the next "Liberal". Shouldn't be a bad word, but . . .

. . . we also don't own the trinkets-n-fluff media, which is why "Liberal" is a bad word in the first place.

[patrice]

35. Right On!! NEVER give up the semantics/semiotics! N-E-V-E-R cede that ground. nt

[patrice]

34. Social programs are the Economically Just compensation for our Labor Capital. nt

[patrice]

36. Social Programs = Real Value in exchange for the Real Value of OUR!!!!! Labor Capital. nt

[CTyankee]

39. Wow, your post reminded me of a grad school Econ course I took and

and read Das Capital! It was kinda cool...Marx could be pretty funny when he was eviscerating the capitalists of his day!

[patrice]

40. It's actually from Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations. Labor is Real Value upon which

all other ARBITRARY values are built.

[CTyankee]

41. Well, I must've leapt over poor Adam Smith to Marx's screed a little too fast!

I guess I prefer Marx's sarcasm, calling capitalists "moneybags" and "bagmen." He stressed that value has accumulated in a product because of the human labor expended in all the stages of production. The end product is the summation of human labor.

I loved Marx. He was self righteous but a great read. Which is probably why what he said about labor being the real value sticks in my mind over the dry exegesis of Smith.

My bad.

[patrice]

44. Thank you for that recommendation. I've never read Marx. Will order today. Smith is . . .

uh, shall we say, "plodding". In addition to archaic language, you have to endure the shear drudgery, without any sarcasm or editorializing, of establishing each minute point, by point, by tiny point, each one painstakingly built upon the preceding points, so of course I haven't read all of The Wealth of Nations and I can guess why lots of people don't. Here's a link anyway: http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN.html I can't remember exactly, but I think the point about the definition of Real Value is only about 6-8 pages into the actual text itself.

Off to order Das Capital, now. Thanks again!

:hi:

[CTyankee]

47. It's not an easy read either, but at least I laughed when I read him.

When we got to the Austrian School with VonWeiser and Bohmbawerk, my eyes felt permanently glazed over. The only thing I got out of it was VonWeiser's observation about "opportunity cost." It made sense to me and I use the term now.

The title of the course was "The Question of Value" and when I signed up I thought it was going to be very interesting. Instead, it just seemed to be economists coming up with a theory that was already in practice. Kind of self serving...

[patrice]

48. Provocative title indeed! Too bad "the gray science" is soooo gray. Doesn't mean we HAVE to

cede that ground though. It seems to me that, to a certain extent, it means the opposite of that; we shouldn't yield certain things and "value" is a good place to take a stand.

[CTyankee]

49. An update on that course would be great. I took it in the spring of 2002.

We are back to laissez-faire as we haven't seen it since 1929...hopefully the professor has retired. She was rather old and mean as hell. This was a Catholic institution and she was a Dominican sister. Man, she scared me! Even tho I was older too and am now retired...

[patrice]

50. Catholic school survivor here. Primary & Secondary. I got a good education + a few twitches! nt

[CTyankee]

57. I had public education until college. Undergrad in the early 60s.

Grad student in the 2000's, when I was really old! I loved it. It was great. But this one old nun got to me. I think she really hated me. Most of the class felt the same way, but there was one student who "got" what we didn't and she destroyed our case for group discrimination!

It was the only course in grad school that I didn't get Honors in...I was pissed...

[hulka38]

42. Yes.

[iamtechus]

45. An entitlement is something you are OWED

I am owed my social security checks.
I am owed my medicare.
My unemployed son is owed his unemployment payments.
We are ENTITLED to these things.
They are not charity; they are ENTITLEMENTS.

It's embarrassing that so many democrats are so fucking stupid that they don't understand this!

[Chorophyll]

46. Words matter. K&R.

[grahamhgreen]

51. kick

[Blue_In_AK]

53. While the term "entitlements" isn't necessarily inaccurate,

when it's said with a sneer, as it so often is, the intent of the speaker is clear and the word itself becomes tainted. I agree with you, Ken.

[philly_bob]

54. Many "entitlements" are contractual obligations.

Republicans who want to rob Social Security and local officials who want to cut pension obligations are simply breaking promises.

[spanone]

55. if i put my hard earned money in a bank i am entitled to withdraw it

social security is a banking account for retirement

do not let the republicans frame it otherwise

there is no word that satisfies the right...fuggem

[Uzybone]

56. foolishness

fighting over words instead of over programs....the internet "left" is lost.

[GeorgeGist]

61. You've allowed the right-wing to twist the meaning of entitlement ...

and in doing so you agree with them.