Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Texas Observer: Some Companies Made Millions Off the Texas Blackouts

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:20 PM
Original message
Texas Observer: Some Companies Made Millions Off the Texas Blackouts
Texas Observer: Some Companies Made Millions Off the Texas Blackouts
February 4, 2011

Michael Giberson

In other commentary on ERCOT’s rolling blackouts: “Some Companies Made Millions Off the Texas Blackouts.”

While Texans suffered rolling blackouts yesterday, some power generators were enjoying windfall profits. Starting around 5 a.m., prices in the wholesale market surged to the market cap, $3,000 per megawatt-hour, and stayed there, off and on, until around noon. Prices are typically below $100/megawatt-hour, acknowledged ERCOT CEO H.P. “Trip” Doggett today in a press conference.

There are still more questions than answers but this much is clear: At best, some power generators around the state raked in oodles of money thanks to the way ERCOT has structured the energy market. At worst, some may have manipulated the market to drive up prices.

http://knowledgeproblem.com/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. GASP! no -- who would have thought that?!?! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is giving me ENRON flashbacks
and their phony "energy crisis" here in California
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. HELLO!
when i first heard of the tx rolling blackouts, the cali enron energy crisis came to mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Little Old Grandma Millie is taking it in the shorts yet again.
The names the Enron glee club used for their manipulations were particularly fetching, remember? "Donkey punch" was one.

Worked in California, why wouldn't it work in Texas?
Worth the risk, to multiply profit 30 times.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. I was hoping that maybe *one* of the companies would be CA-based
no such luck
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Yes, and Ross Perot flashbacks, too
If someone scratches around a bit, they will discover Perot Systems Corporation software was used to game the system.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. We are still havin them today...
#3 since 5am just finished, power has been on about 20 minutes.. I figure got about an hour before we go phffft again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is what you get when you make power plant development difficult and expensive.
If you make it difficult to develop adequate capacity, then you won't have enough during an emergency situation as we have now. When that happens, any generators who are selling into the spot market will charge the maximum price - that should surprise no one. The generators in question are probably gas fired peaking plants that normally operate on 3% -5 % of the time. Most of the time, the spot price is too low for them to make a profit. What is happening now is predictable and I have no problem with it.

I'd be very surprised if there was market manipulation. I'm sure ERCOT has rules that prevent that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Riiiiiiiight.
It's all the fault of too much regulation. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. So why do you think there isn't enough generation available to meet the load?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. if we have no capacity why can we all crank our ACs high in summer
with no rolling blackouts?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. The problem is that a lot of capacity is likely in maintenance outages right now.
Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 03:09 PM by badtoworse
In the summer, every megawatt is available because demand is usually higher then, and so are prices. In Texas, demand is usually lower in the winter so that is when most plants do maintenance. That is most likely the reason why power supplies are short. Going forward, Texas will likely improve its capacity reserve margins so this doesn't happen again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. ok, so what we are complaining about,
Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 03:26 PM by justabob
is that the power companies didn't fire up the back ups even when it was clear the power WOULD BE NEEDED,and that failures were LIKELY and other people profited by that. It is a legit criticism and I am sorry, but people shouldn't have to worry about crap like that. I understand when power lines go down etc, but that isn't what we are dealing with. This was easily preventable if the power companies gave a shit. On edit: or weren't worried about the cost of possibly "wasting" money on excess capacity for a few HOURS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. That's baloney
It takes weeks to overhaul a large turbine and costs a few million bucks. You don't just put them back in service.

"fire up the the backups"? At $3,000 per MWH, they would have fired up every MW that was available. The problem is that they didn't have enough backup available to meet an unusually high winter load. That is probably a combination of allowing too much capacity to be out for maintenance and not having enough reserve margin to begin with.

As for "wasting" money on reserve capacity, how would you propose paying for it? Generating capacity is very expensive and nobody is going to build it if they're not going to paid for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. not buying it, sorry
call me stupid or ignorant or whatever you want, but I cannot believe that in this day and age we cannot keep the power on when it gets down to the teens in Texas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. The lights aren't staying. What's your explanation?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Your story keeps changing.
Is it big, bad government or is it incompetent maintenance decisions by plant operators?

February is always the coldest month in Texas and big snow storms are not uncommon. Power should have been available.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. "Maintenance" was the excuse given when Enron was deliberately
shutting down functional plants in California -- ye gods, how can people's memories be so short???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Enron is gone and this isn't California
Power plants really do need regular maintenance and it's scheduled months in advance. $3,000 is the ceiling price and it's about 30 times the normal price. Holding back generation isn't going to drive it higher and anyone who could be generating is generating - this is as good as it's going to get for a generator. They just don't enough reserves or they scheduled too much maintenance. It's probably both
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. IF you dig deep enough
There are quite a few folks from Enron still in the energy business in Texas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. "Holding back generation isn't going to drive it higher "

So . . . somebody just forgot to tell Ken Lay's boys that???

"Holding back generation" sure as heck worked for them.
That, and pumping it back and forth over the California-Nevada border.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. How does the saying go? Put up or shut up
If you have any evidence that generation was held back to drive up prices let's see it. If you don't, then you're just speculating,
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. No one sane would schedule much maintenance in early February. It makes
far more sense to concentrate it in March and October, months when demand would be less and unexpected outages would be less likely and less painful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. You might be right; it depends on the seasonal load profiles
I've had almost 30 years experience, but it's in PJM (northeastern US). Your statement about March and October would be true up here, but I would expect Texas' profile to be flatter in the winter. That would allow generators more latitude in scheduling maintenance. I didn't have the time yesterday to do the research and confirm, but I strongly suspect that capacity reserve margins in ERCOT are too low. If that's true, it would not require a lot of units in maintenance to create a problem given the extreme weather we've been seeing.

What I'm not buying are statements that the system is being gamed. True, Enron did it in California, but that was 10 years ago in CAISO. I am sure that all of the country's ISO's and FERC reviewed regulations to prevent a similar occurence. I know that in PJM, we have an independent market monitor that review operations to make sure that no one has the power to maipulate the market. I'd be very surprised if ERCOT did not have something similar.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oldhippie Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Because most of our heat pumps down here ....
.... draw one hell of a lot more current in the auxillary heat resistance coils heating mode than in the cooling mode. About 19.2 KW more in my case. I'm an EE and I watch these things carefully. When it's below 25 F the heat pumps are not very efficient. Most house in my area do not have gas hookups and are all-electric.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theophilus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. You're wrong. This is what you get when greedy f*&ks game the system.
Put 'em all in prison. Wind and solar will fix this sh*t!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. What a crock!!
Texas already has more wind generation than it knows what to do with - if anything, it's oversupplied with wind.

How are the greedy f*&ks gaming the system? Do you know anything about the power business?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. We're talking about TEXAS
I doubt that power plant development is as difficult or expensive there as in most of the U.S.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Couldn't happen to a better state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Problem is
I live here and struggle to pay my electric bill every month. It is as much as my car payment and house payment combined.

I can ill afford a rate hike now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Remember there are DUers from Texas
And none of us here were cheering the rolling blackouts in California. Yeah, there's no Texas bashing on DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Please stop
You don't mean that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. Enough with the state hate. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. I'll remember that when I struggled to pay my electric bill that is already double what it was just
a few yrs ago. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
31. There are human beings there.
Sorry, I don't agree with state bashing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
32. Most large cities in Texas are blue
something worth remembering
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. Texans on this board don't tolerate bullshit like this very well.
As you are finding out.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC