MSNBC: NEW Obama plan to have Mubarak step down. Suileman to head transition. What BULLSHIT.

[chimpymustgo]

That's NOT what the Egyption people want. Fuck 'em all.

[FrenchieCat]

1. Are you Egyptian?

[Avalux]

2. Suileman is Mubarak. n/t

[Junkdrawer]

4. With a wart on his chin. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

40. And blood on his hands. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

6. and Egyptians are not random Americans typing on the Internet.

[originalpckelly]

3. Something tells me they don't want any of Hosni's cronies leading the gov.

That's just common sense.

[FrenchieCat]

5. I'll wait to hear from them.

[Hello_Kitty]

14. Gee, that was hard to find out.

Took 5 entire seconds of googling.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-02-01/mubarak-s-top-spy-rejected-by-cairo-streets-as-masses-march.html

[Matariki]

25. LOL

Bravo!

[jkshaw]

56. Nothing there.

[Zhade]

68. Fucking OWNED. Nicely done.

NT!

[chimpymustgo]

8. Or our RENDITION guy. And Israel negotiator. I know the American people are stupid, but I don't

think the Egyptians will buy the bullshit we're selling.

[xchrom]

9. Wow - talk about not paying attention - whoosh. Nt

[chimpymustgo]

20. Are you paying any attention at all? Egyptian protesters have already weighed in on Suileman, when

he was named VP. You do know his history, right?

[FrenchieCat]

32. I don't believe it is proposed that he will be the next President.....

Only a transitional figure rather than leaving a vaccum. El Baradai appointed by the American Government ain't gonna git it.

[chimpymustgo]

83. No one has said that. So Sulieman's okay by you, but El Baradai isn't??

[stephHart]

26. I'm not, but I have been watching and listening to what they and my friends have been saying

and it sounds like they want this whole regime removed from power.

[Cali_Democrat]

39. Don't you think somebody has to control the army and govt during the transition?

You want a complete and total vacuum? Because that's what you'll get if you remove the whole regime from power.

How would they even administer elections in such chaos?

[stephHart]

44. of, course... and there are folks who can do that besides this corrupt current regime

do you think they are the ONLY ones who can conduct this transition?

[Cali_Democrat]

72. No, but then who would you propose to control the police and army?

Somebody has to do it.

[stephHart]

75. a transitional civilian leadership, not made up of the current, corrupt leaders

sure, "Somebody has to do it." but certainly not the existing ones.

[RegieRocker]

57. Bullshit is bullshit. Why do you ask that question?

[Stinky The Clown]

71. The people cited in this story are Eqyptian. I'm so sorry, but they disagree with your implication

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-01/mubarak-s-top-spy-suleiman-rejected-by-cairo-streets-as-protesters-march.html

Nice try, though.

[mmonk]

81. Egyptians want a CIA asset in charge?

[annabanana]

7. I'm afraid I can't see this getting much traction on the street.

Like Rachel said.. "Torture guy...Peace Prize guy, Torture guy. . . Peace Prize guy"

[cynatnite]

10. It's a start. n/t

[ProSense]

11. "That's NOT what the Egyption people want." How do you know?

Demanding the President make a definitive statement and when he does claim that the next leader is a U.S. puppet.

Ridiculous.

[FrenchieCat]

18. They want US Armies to go into Egypt, remove the entire Government

and install El Baradai....
then Internet folks will feel good about imposing Democracy
in Egypt once again! :sarcasm:

I suggest we let the deal be brokered, and let the Egyptian people themselves
accept it or turn it down or ask for something else. I don't think we here,
nor the President, can speak for the Egyptians....and to think so is presumptious
and arrogant.

[stephHart]

29. if you listen to what they are saying, it appears they want regime change

top-to-bottom

[EFerrari]

58. We know because Sulieman, our torture partner, has already been

dismissed out of hand by the five big protestors' group, as well he should be, the criminal f#ck.

[jannyk]

12. Gotta have someone clean up all those rendition documents! eom

[cbdo2007]

13. Maybe President Obama should fly all the Egyptions to the US tomorrow for fair elections...

would that be good enough and quick enough for you?!?!?

ha ha, give me a break. If the Egyptian people want it done their way then they shoudl tell President Obama they don't want his help.

[RegieRocker]

60. Is the Democrat icon a jackass?

[Inuca]

15. How easy it is to judge from afar

Suleiman is 70 something and with I forgot how many heart attacks behind him. He is by no means a sait, very far from it, but from the various account I read, he IS a smart man. He is not in it for any significant duration. I have no idea what he will do, it may far from perfect, but YOU CANNOT HAVE A VACUUM.

Moreover, as somebody else pointed out, we are NOT the Egyptian people, and do not really know what they want. And actually the ones in Tahrir square are not "the" Egyptian people either, just a slice of it.

[Cleita]

27. Believe me, bad health is no detriment to those who

love power. Look at our own Dick Cheney.

[polmaven]

65. Oh, of course...

and I'm quite sure President Obama is just too naive to ever understand that this cannot be a permanent situation......:sarcasm:

Give me a break....I'm quite sure the negotiations include the final turnover of power to an acceptable replacement. But that who will be that replacement is not up to us to determine. It is up to the Egyptian people, and we cannot negotiate that for them. In the meantime, as others have pointed out, there cannot be a vacuum.

[Cleita]

67. You really are someplace else, aren't you? n/t

[polmaven]

69. As opposed to where you are, yes..I am..

I am in a world where the people of a country make decisions about their own futures...not the president of the United States, or posters on an internet site, for that matter.

While the president does have some amount of influence on the current "leaders" in Egypt he cannot assert that influence on the people of the country, and, conversly, cannot run the country himself during any transition period. It is not his country. It is not our country.

[Cleita]

74. I agree with you there.

You weren't very clear about it.

[eleny]

16. People Al Jazeera interviewed from Tahrir Square said they don't want him

This was earlier today.

[ProSense]

22. Did they say who they want? n/t

[EFerrari]

77. They said they'd start negotiating with the military as soon as Mubarak

steps down.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I suspect that it will not stop there

I suspect REAL negotiations will be done. The DEMAND is for Hosni to go, before any negotiations. They tried the, go home and then we sit down...

IF (and I suspect it is when) Mubarak leaves, South Africa will be the model to be followed. Regardless, we lost control of this a while ago... about oh ten days ago They are trying to avoid tomorrow and the bloodbath.

[jenmito]

19. Suileman to head the transition-not to be the next president. n/t

[Cleita]

21. LOL! You really believe that!

It gives them time until an election to move their ducks into place.

[jenmito]

24. Yes-I'm sure there will be free and fair elections with people WATCHING this time. n/t

[Cleita]

30. Whose going to watch? All those journalists who

can't report anymore? This crack down on journalists came from the present government of which Suleiman is a part. There will be no one watching.

[jenmito]

33. Don't you think that will be part of the deal? I think there WILL be people watching, and not only

journalists.

[Cleita]

35. I hope so but somehow I don't think Al Jazeera is

going to get a big welcome back.

[jenmito]

37. I edited my post to add that I don't think the elections will be watched only by

journalists.

[eleny]

48. I'm skeptical, too

And it was momentarily puzzling that Suleiman is a part of this deal. But, if Mubarak agrees and signs on the dotted line then he's out of the way and the people risking their lives have won a victory. Then if they continue to demand that Suleiman leave as well that can be negotiated. At least, like you said, there's time bought to avoid a bloodbath tomorrow.

The thing that worries me is that Suleiman is connected to the military. He's not the good twin here, after all.

The victory of Mubarak leaving could surely embolden the millions all over Egypt. Seems like Suleiman might be the bait our administration is hoping Mubarak will take. The sop that can be amended later. But it still feels like we're sucking up to the monster of rendition. Suleiman has the goods on us.

[Cleita]

50. Yes, he has the goods on us. n.t.

[chimpymustgo]

42. They'll have their puppet in place. So...a few Eqyptians had to die. A few journalists get beaten up

Not too high a price to maintain American "interests".

Our government is vile and repulsive.

[spanone]

23. let's see the plan before we trash it....and let's allow the egyptian people see it first

[bdamomma]

80. right, the Egyptian people have the last word

right now they want Mubarak out.

[sufrommich]

28. Maybe everybody should actually read the NYT article

before reacting with outrage.

[SidDithers]

41. Where's the fun in that?...nt

Sid

[renegade000]

62. seriously

Maybe it's just me, but I get the impression that the administration actually knows what it's doing from that article.

[LostInAnomie]

31. Yes. Only we on the internet know what the Egyptian people want.

Why not let them see the deal and decide for themselves?

[sufrommich]

36. Because outrage without facts is way more fun. nt

[Hello_Kitty]

52. Or you could spend 5 seconds googling and learn

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-02-01/mubarak-s-top-spy-rejected-by-cairo-streets-as-masses-march.html

[sufrommich]

54. Try reading the NYT article that started this latest outrage.nt

[Cleita]

46. How can they see the deal if all news organizations

have been stifled. Earlier it was said that journalists cannot report. Their cameras have been confiscated. So who is going to get the news of the deal to them so they can decide? Even we won't know their side.

[Cleita]

47. How can they see the deal if all news organizations

have been stifled. Earlier it was said that journalists cannot report. Their cameras have been confiscated. So who is going to get the news of the deal to them so they can decide? Even we won't know their side.

[Odin2005]

34. Switching imperial governors is NOT change.

Fuck this BS!!! :grr:

[malaise]

38. It's a lousy plan but Obama can't make that decision

I can't take this.

[sufrommich]

45. Which is what the NYT article points out. But hey,don't bother

reading it or anything.

[chimpymustgo]

49. You don't think Obama MADE this decision? Know your BFEE.

[dionysus]

84. is obama in the BFEE now?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. Kinda like offering to exchange the arsenic in the coffee with strychnine.

[spanone]

51. it's one of several options under discussion......here's nytimes article

Senior administration officials said that the proposal is one of several options under discussion with high-level Egyptian officials around Mr. Mubarak, though not him directly, in an effort to convince him to step down now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/world/middleeast/04diplomacy.html?pagewanted=print

[jkshaw]

59. Gee spanone, you're expecting these guys

to actually read something? They'd much rather argue past each other.

[somone]

53. Hope and Change for Egypt

Obama-style

[RegieRocker]

61. Good one

[Autumn]

55. I don't think there will be much change if that happens

Suileman said protesters calling for the departure of Mubarak are not "part of the Egyptian culture".

[eleny]

63. Yeah, my bullshit meter just went off the charts

[Dappleganger]

64. Neither Mubarak nor Suileman nor anyone in that regime have any credibility left w/the Egyptians

so that would be a huge problem with them. What's to prevent Suileman from putting Mubarak back in charge again?

The people are finished that regime and are ready to move on to another.

[Fire1]

66. We oughtta stay out of it, altogether! They know what and WHO

they want! Let em have at it!

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chimpymustgo]

78. It's simple to them: might is right. And our "interests" must be satisfied.

[kohodog]

73. but, but, he is the darling of the CIA

so we should all get in line and support the rendition king.

please, it must be in our best interest because that is what we are being told.

[hulka38]

76. What's playing out is

America's interests over the people of Egypt's interests and they know it. We need to know when to stop playing games and deliver on what we preach.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chimpymustgo]

82. In a nutshell. We are seeing exactly what our interests are and who is pulling the strings.

[dionysus]

85. .

:eyes: