You must be joking: Open letter to the "Tiger Mom"

[Hannah Bell]

Dear Professor Chua,

By now, your Wall Street Journal article Why Chinese Mothers are Superior has circled around the globe and you have appeared on many media outlets...Frankly I was at first appalled by your article because I have read your book Days of Empire, in which you suggest that tolerance is the force that helped build great empires. But in this article, you seem to suggest otherwise— that a totalitarian, authoritarian, and dictatorial approach will produce a successful person. This contradiction helped to realize that you must be joking, just like this YouTube video by Eric Liang that makes fun of how “crazy Asian moms” react when their children get a B.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKnloiM-0Ns

I am sure, as a well-educated Professor of Yale, you must know that even in China only “garbage parents” call their children garbage. And those who call their children garbage or similar things are generally looked down upon and considered uncivilized by their neighbors and colleagues. I grew up in China and came to the US when I was 27. In all those 27 years, I don’t remember being called garbage by my parents nor have I ever called my children garbage.

I am also sure that you are aware that your strict method, while quite commonly practiced in Chinese families, does not always (and quite often do not) lead to a virtuous cycle or produce successful people. There is this running joke that supports your argument. Surprised by the fact that an uneducated peasant family were able to have all three of their children achieve high test scores to be admitted to college in China, reporters asked the father for his parenting secret that produced this miracle. The father went inside the house and took out a huge club behind the door. But this club did not do any wonders in my village. When I was growing up, my father was among the few who did not have such a club hanging on the wall. But I became the only one in the village who graduated from high school and went on to college...

Lastly, I am sure you know that your children’s success —Carnegie Hall performance and other kudos and trophies— may have more to do with you as a Yale professor, the community you live in, the friends and colleagues you have, the schools they attend, the friends they have (oh, I forgot, they are not allowed to have friends, well in this case, the classmates they have), than your parenting style. There are at least 100 million Chinese parents who practiced your way of parenting but were unable to send their children to Carnegie Hall...

Yong Zhao

http://zhaolearning.com/2011/01/15/you-must-be-joking-professor-chua-an-open-letter-to-the-chinese-tiger-mom/

[Fumesucker]

1. I liked this part particularly..

When you force your children to get As in school, without necessarily even know what lies behind the As, you are no different from carrying out an order of an agency without ever questioning why. This, by the way, is the reason behind the misperception that somehow Chinese parents care more about their children’s education than Americans because they put a lot more pressure on their children to do school work and judge their children by school grades. I believe American parents care as much but they have different definitions of education—sports, music, art, independence, creativity, passion, a well-rounded education, or simply a happy childhood!

[dkf]

2. In my experience, it was my Chinese friend's fathers who were way tougher than their mothers.

In senior year, they changed the AP calculus teacher to some poor woman who hadn't taught it before because she was used to teaching geometry. She didn't know the material and had the entire class freaking out about not being able to pass the ACTs nor get a decent grade for college. All the kids were stressed but none more than my Chinese friend whose father was putting major pressure on him. I think he had to go to the Vice Principal's office after he got into an argument with the teacher. The teacher even broke down in class one day. It was an injustice all the way around.

But the class stuck it out and self taught the material and thank goodness everyone was brilliant enough to do that.

I have never to this day seen someone so stressed out about school though. Everyone felt so bad for the guy.

[OmahaBlueDog]

3. I'm torn. As a kid, I'd have hated it. As a parent, I have to admire the results.

A realtor I've worked with on several occasions is from India. She and her husband have three kids: one is an attorney, one is a dentist, and one is a doctor. Flame me if you will, but I'd try the tiger parent route myself if I knew I could get those results.

[marshall]

4. It's hard to argue

I wonder how the children feel now.

[SoCalDem]

6. Here's the thing, though

Raise your kids the way you want to ..the way your culture demands

Don't break any laws doing it.

The kids will grumble.. all kids do it. Kids all play the " No.... MY Mom/Dad is the meanest/strictest/ parent in the world" with their friends.

Sometimes the kids will "win" a battle here & there.

The kids will grow up and will retain what they liked & toss out the rest when it comes to raising their kids.

BUT if you WRITE A BOOK laying out all the gory details, you WILL get attacked.

You just have to decide whether the money is worth it:)

[OmahaBlueDog]

17. Two generations ago, parents reguarly and frequently engaged in behavior we now term "abuse"

Those abusers are now frequently your grandparents or great grandparents.

Dr. Spock is freuently attacked to this day. hillary Clinton is still villified for having the audacity to suggest "it takes a village to raise a child." At the end of the day, all I want is for my kids to be far more successful than I am (which shouldn't be too difficult).

...and really, I'm not as bad as I sound. My daughters can be whatever they want to be. Neurologist, Pediatrician, Allergist, Oncologist.... I'm not picky as long as they are happy ;)

[vim876]

8. What if you knew...

that your kids would fail the Milgram experiment, too? Would you still do it?

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. +1000

The primary lesson learned by the children of tiger parents is deference to authority.

[OmahaBlueDog]

18. Shocking!

[cali]

9. I would no more call my child garbage than I'd hit him over the head with a hammer.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Really? You'd call your kid "garbage" and threaten to burn your toddler's stuffed animals?

Because I'm sorry, even the exalted prize of pumping a brand newly minted lawyer, doctor, or dentist (ooooh!) out of the child production sausage machine at the end isn't worth that sort of thing to my soul, personally.

[treestar]

13. +1

[OmahaBlueDog]

15. Warren, I'd compare my daughter to Sarah Palin if it'd guarantee she'd go to med school

Fortunately, I know that approach would not work. :)

In seriousness: everyone is critical of the Tiger Mom and the threats and the verbal abuse. Did you play competitive sports? Particularly - did you play football? The Tiger Mom looks like Mother Theresa compared to some football coaches. Of course, many in our society don't view football as just a game; we see it as character building -- it's Manly Man 101. Those coaches often end up being beloved by their former players. So, in that light, I don''t see her actions as particularly unusual or shocking.

[RainDog]

16. and some of us despise football and those who pretend it's about "manly men"

of course, I'm a female and, growing up, I was told it was a shame I wasn't a boy because I was the best quarterback in my neighborhood...

but I did participate in other sports, was pretty good, and would have told any coach who berated me to go fuck him or herself.

because that's not necessary to get people to perform.

it is, however, abusive and sickening.

[Pithlet]

19. That's sad.

I played sports and I plan on letting my kids do so as well. And I don't see it that way at all. Not at all. That's really screwed up. I'm sorry. For one thing, a coach is way different than a parent.

[OmahaBlueDog]

20. I don't claim all coaches are that way. I know for a fact that some are

In some cases, I think there is that "Drill Sargent" mentality. Scream, dehumanize, obtain obedience, build a fighting unit.

Also, hasn't the Tiger Mom gone on record saying that she regretted calling her kid "garbage"?

[Pithlet]

23. I didn't say you claimed that. It doesn't matter.

There's a big difference between your coach calling you garbage, a person that you know is doing it to push you to play better, a person that you don't have the same bond with, and your parent doing so. Not that I think coaches should necessarily be doing so, either. But a parent doing it because they think it wlll garner the results (because hey! Some woman wrote a book and got results! I want my kid to be a doctor tooooo!) is abusive. And they aren't absolved just because coaches might do it, too.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. She should regret it. What boggles my mind is why anyone would pay for her "advice"

when she herself doesn't think it's very good. :shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

24. I'd pull my son out of any football team that called him "garbage". "Manly Men" don't do that

not where I come from.

Character comes from playing the game well, having fun, and learning sportsmanship. The most manly, character-filled traits I can think of are compassion and kindness. THOSE are what make a Manly Man.

Also, I've seen the results of overly critical, rigid, demanding and inflexible parenting. I'd rather have a kid who is a happy shoe salesperson than one who is a miserable surgeon with self-doubt and low self-esteem.

[Maru Kitteh]

32. My stepdaughter's mom = overly critical, rigid, demanding and inflexible and my stepdaughter is a

MESS because of it. Addictions, promiscuity, total lack of self-discipline, confusion, rage..... it's just damn tragic.

She took the curious, warm, friendly, loving, intelligent child who studied encyclopedias and animal books so she could be a veterinarian and turned her into a paranoid, lost, manipulative young woman who is having a hell of a time finding her way back to hope, and herself.

[nolabear]

27. I'd call that identification with the aggressor, not love.

Yep, you can shame and belittle people into doing what you want. And you often get people who develop pride in how much shame and belittling they have experienced, and disdain anyone who doesn't reinforce the idea that that's the way to do things. It's ridiculous and can lead to massive abuse. Nothing to be proud of.

[Maru Kitteh]

31. You seem to view your daughters as tools to make up for your shortcomings and prove your worth

and that's really sick and sad. One hopes that most of us hold high hopes for our children but you openly entertain the idea of verbally and emotionally demeaning and abusing your girls in the hopes that they will end up as high-paid professionals so that you can brag about them.

That just grosses me the fuck out.

[OmahaBlueDog]

42. I want what's best for my kids. If that's sick and sad, I'll own sick and sad

Have a nice day

[krabigirl]

44. Don't be surprised if one of them rebels.

[OmahaBlueDog]

45. Nothing would surprise me less.

[krabigirl]

43. Seriously. So sad. +1

[Starry Messenger]

21. There's tons of middle ground between "Totally Permissive" and "Totally Inflexible".

I'm not a parent, I'm a high school teacher. There are days when I go home and wish that there were fewer permissive parents in the world, but on the whole I find that my students are usually diligent across the board. Maybe not consistent, but eager to learn. There are always a few exceptions, but I think kids today work a lot harder than people give them credit for. My .02.

[Maru Kitteh]

30. you do know India is not China, right?

The two sets of Indian parents I know are VERY nurturing, to what some consider excess even. I think they'd rather cut out their own tongues than call their children "garbage."

[OmahaBlueDog]

41. Actually I do know that

And in the case of the folks I'm talking about, you'd be correct.

[AngryAmish]

5. The farcical thing is Chua confuses correlation and causation

Of course her daughters were likely to excel at school - her parents are Yale professors. I wonder what their IQ is? IQ is highly heritable. Now I want to see Chua adopt some kid with a 90 IQ and I want to see how they turn out.

[Prometheus Bound]

7. Exactly the point.

[LisaL]

28. I am pretty sure not every child of a professor succeeds in school.

[Maru Kitteh]

33. Are you pretty sure that they are exponentially more likely to than the children of hotel maids?

Or are you consistently unconcerned with reality?


"I am pretty sure not every child of a professor succeeds in school." - Well no fucking shit. Next up in The Daily Obvious . . . . SCANDAL - Son of lawyer drops out of college.. does NOT, we repeat does NOT become LAWYER!

[AngryAmish]

35. No doubt.

But the fact remains that children from an intact marriage of two people as smart as these girls' parents are already gifted certain abilities in the intellectual arena that most people don't have. No one said or would even claim that every child of a professor succeeds. But it is likely (please note the word likely) that these girls have a very high IQ and other abilities that make success very likely. (notwithstanding the regression to the mean that happens in cases like this)

[MattBaggins]

29. "IQ is highly heritable."

Where are you getting that from?

[Maru Kitteh]

34. It's that whole science thing. Try the Google.

[MattBaggins]

36. Every Science course book I have used and every professor

I have had thinks that claiming IQ is inheritable is bunk.

[Maru Kitteh]

37. You should get your money back.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. It is.

It may not be PC to say so, but it is.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. This "Tiger Mom" bullshit is just more media-fed noise to sell to neurotic, self-doubting Merkins.

Yes, yes, whatever we're doing, we must be doing it wrong, surely you can sell us a book for the low low price of $19.95 that will tell us how to raise our children!


:eyes:

[woo me with science]

14. It's a shame THIS mother was the one with the article,

because the "garbage" comments and the withholding bathroom breaks make it easy to dismiss everything she is saying.

There is something to be said for pushing kids harder than most American parents push them, but that point gets lost because they chose as a messenger the one who screams that they are "garbage" while doing it.

[Pithlet]

22. That's a good point.

I find it odd that so many people really think that most successful "overachievers" had parents who did abusive things like call them garbage in order to push them. Really, there's no way to be tough and push kids without that? And even more mind boggling to me is the fact that they're all "Well, if that's what it takes! We're too soft on our kids, we Americans!" :silly:

[Warren DeMontague]

26. I think it's an oversimplification to say "most American Parents" do or don't do anything.

And it's flat-out idiotic to try to imply, as the WSJ has done, that our global economic situation has anything to do with "Chinese vs. American Parenting styles". The reason that China has so many of what used to be our manufacturing jobs is that they have people working for the equivalent of 13 cents an hour, people in our country enjoy buying cheap goods made in China, and they have an artificially low currency.

It has diddly jack to do with whether American Parents let their kids watch tv or make them practice piano enough. Also, oddly missing from this wrenching soul-searching about "how we don't push our kids hard enough" was a recognition of the fact that, in a 21st century where science education will be paramount, we ARE shortchanging large numbers of kids by letting flat-Earthers intimidate teachers out of teaching the facts around evolution.


THAT, unlike the "tiger v. helicopter mom" hand-wringing, is actually relevant.

[JCMach1]

39. There are huge differences in parenting styles around the world

You think Chinese mom's are tough... let me tell you about the Indian ones.

Then there is the exact opposite, Arab moms.

Americans are not like any of these mums...

Thank the diety(ies) we fall somewhere in-between.

I would have killed myself as a teenager if I had a mom like this one. I am not kidding.

[lapislzi]

38. Make 'em or buy 'em, kids are a crapshoot

I have more stories than will fit in a posting box about kids, biological and adopted, who could not have turned out *less* like their parents.

How else do you explain me, the child of two alcoholics on welfare, earning six figures? Or the three adopted daughters of my dearest friend, the kindest, most pleasant, patient, tolerant man on the face of the earth, crashing and burning in their teens?

There is no "one way" to raise kids. If you're a smart parent, you'll learn as much from your kids as they'll learn from you.