Rapper T.I. - Being American means being gay in peace, and being against being gay in peace

[Amerigo Vespucci]

T.I. - Some Gays are 'Not American'

http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/27/t-i-gays-unamerican-vibe-magazine/



T.I. was discussing gay rights with Vibe magazine -- an issue he says he supports -- and then mentioned Tracy Morgan's controversial comments earlier this year:

"Man, I will say this, the funniest joke I ever heard Tracy say during a stand-up was, 'C'mon man, I think gay people are too sensitive. If you can take a d**k, you can take a joke.' That s**t was funny to me. And it’s kind of true."

Then T.I. unloaded ... talking about oversensitivity in the gay community, which he believes betrays the First Amendment which guarantees freedom of speech.

"They’re like,‘If you have an opinion against us, we’re gonna shut you down.’ ... That’s not American. If you’re gay you should have the right to be gay in peace, and if you’re against it you should have the right to be against it in peace."

[CurtEastPoint]

1. Well, he's certainly a credible source for moral guidance...

T.I., born Clifford Harris, was released from a halfway house in September following one year in custody for his arrest in September 2010 in Los Angeles on drug charges. He was sentenced to 11 months for violating terms of a previous supervised released after being convicted of federal firearms charges.

Harris remains under supervised release until Sept. 2012 and is required to participate in a drug/alcohol testing and treatment program.

Here he sounds like Newtie:

T.I. has been in a relationship with former Xscape member Tameka "Tiny" Cottle since 2001. The couple married on July 30, 2010 in Miami Beach, Florida. Together, they have two sons: Clifford "King" Joseph Harris III, born August 25, 2004, and Major Philant Harris, born May 16, 2008.

In addition, T.I. has two sons with ex-girlfriend Lashon Dixon: Domani Uriah, born in 2000, and Messiah Ya'Majesty, born in 2001. T.I. also has a daughter named Deyjah Imani, born in 2001, from another relationship.

Through his marriage to Cottle, T.I. has one stepdaughter, Zonnique Pullins, born in 1996 to Cottle and Zonnie Zebo Pullins

[ZombieHorde]

3. Which of his actions do you feel are immoral? nt

[xchrom]

2. He can take his own dick up his ass.

Offend me - on the way to you big bank - and I'm gonna getin your face.

Just like he would if racism were the way to a big meal ticket.

Asshole.

[ZombieHorde]

4. Sensitivity comes from oppression. This is why there are no really bad slurs

against white, straight males. You can call white, straight males "honkey breeders," but there is no real sting.

[WildNovember]

5. There certainly are slurs that sting straight white males. They're not phrased in terms

of their straightness or whiteness though, but in terms of their maleness & earning power.

You're aware that since the 70's white males (the lower 50%) are the only group for whom real earnings at the median actually dropped? By about $3000. Their employment rates also dropped.

The income of black males at the median increased since the 70s, but not significantly. White & black women's incomes at the median increased significantly, but never to the level (in real terms) that white men were making in the 70's. The result? More poor people, more broken families, more children raised in poverty, more single-parent families, and more disempowerment of the working class.

I'd just like you to consider how the focus on color & gender can feed this dynamic, giving cover to the ruling class to grind everyone down, & how, even though it seems like "someone" (in this case white & black women) is making "progress", in the big picture those people "as a class" are actually falling farther behind.

White men are not the enemy.

[Bluenorthwest]

6. In this case the enemy is ignorance, as embodied by TI

a guy on parole.

[WildNovember]

7. He's one guy. Who's been elevated to "stardom" by the same machine grinding all of us down.

The machine is very happy when people focus their scorn on people like him. People that the machine itself elevates, both for idolization and for scorn -- all products of false consciousness on everyone's part. Meanwhile, the people grinding everyone down keep themselves very well hidden.


Here are the income figures:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2326077&mesg_id=2327305

[Bluenorthwest]

8. That machine is made of people and their actions and if he is

a man, he is accountable. This is not some mystic McLuan moment, this is about an ignorant bigot mouthing off for his own enrichment. No 'machine' makes him do it, he does it by his own free fucking will, and that is that. No excuses.

[WildNovember]

10. Of course he does it "of his own free will". But that's entirely beside the point.

All this scolding of individuals -- which grows, year by year -- is trivial and accomplishes nothing. And that's the way the PTB like it. And of course, the machine has a role in producing what people consider their "free will," that is, their preferences and choices and consciousness in the system created by the machine.

[ZombieHorde]

9. Your first two sentences demonstrate your misunderstanding of my post.

Your second and third paragraphs are irrelevant to my post. They don't address it in the slightest.

Your fourth, one-sentence paragraph, is just a random claim.

I think your problem is you're adding a lot of extra meaning to my post. It is only supposed to say what I have written; everything else is the reader's fantasy.

[WildNovember]

11. You said sensitivity comes from oppression, thus there are no really bad slurs about straight white

males.

The subtext is that straight white males are not oppressed. That subtext follows a formulation that the PTB had a large role in creating and promoting. It's convenient that people view things that way, as just a matter of "bad" individuals (oppressive whites, oppressive straights, oppressive males) like TI or whatever this current whipping boy is named.

At any rate, I see you are not interested in the statistics I provided showing that white males at or under the median have lost income since 1973; that black males have gained insiginficantly, and that black and white women have gained, but are still well below the real income that white men made in 1973.

A victory for capital, but not often discussed as such things are crowded out by the outrage over random remarks by black rappers.

[ZombieHorde]

12. OK. Which slurs against white, straight men are equilivent to slurs agaisnt black people, women, or

gay people?

The subtext is that straight white males are not oppressed. That subtext follows a formulation that the PTB had a large role in creating and promoting. It's convenient that people view things that way, as just a matter of "bad" individuals (oppressive whites, oppressive straights, oppressive males) like TI or whatever this current whipping boy is named.

At any rate, I see you are not interested in the statistics I provided showing that white males at or under the median have lost income since 1973; that black males have gained insiginficantly, and that black and white women have gained, but are still well below the real income that white men made in 1973.

White, straight males are not an oppressed group in the US. There may be individual white, straight men who are oppressed, but they are not oppressed as a group the way women, gays, and nonwhites are oppressed as a group.

[WildNovember]

17. I think you'd better define what "oppression" means to you and who it is that's doing the oppressing

take white men & white women for a start & explain to me what you mean when you say that white women are oppressed in comparison to white men, and then I will answer your question. You have set the frame for the debate when you imply that women as a group are oppressed in a way that white men as a group are not, so I need to be clear on what *you* mean.

Are you saying that oppression equals "slurs" (by whom?) or is that just part of the oppression?

[ZombieHorde]

22. Our society has strong, double standards that favor men over women.

If a man sleeps with two women, he is a stud, but if a woman sleeps with two men, she is a slut.

Women still earn less than men for equal work.

Women's role in history has been strongly downplayed, though this is starting to change.

Women are more likely than men to have their doctors brush off their medical complaints.

The dominate religion in the US claims men should be the head of women.

Women are generally spoken of on the subjects of their looks (Michele Obama is so beautiful/Bachmann looks insane) and their relationships, while men are generally spoken of by their deeds.

Women have to wear more clothes than men when out in public.

The US is a sexist society.

Are you saying that oppression equals "slurs" (by whom?) or is that just part of the oppression?

No. I am saying the oppression makes the slurs sting more. Calling a woman a "bitch" generally stings more than calling a man a "bastard" because the "bitch" slur has the context of the oppression; the double standard.

[WildNovember]

25. And the source of this oppression?

[ZombieHorde]

27. Wow; big question.

The ultimate source may have started before we evolved into humans.

Our culture's sexism came directly from our previous cultures from past generations. The teachings of Christ have some sexist points, and of course some people (Republicans) will latch on to those teachings.

Ignorance is another source. We are generally unaware of the sexism in our language and view points. I was unaware of some of the sexism in my own speech, until it was pointed out to me in some books I had read.

So I guess my answer is culture and ignorance are the sources of women's oppression in the US.

[WildNovember]

28. So I hope you won't mind another big question: what do you mean by culture?

I'm asking because so far what I'm getting is you think the source of oppression against women is religion/our religious history and not being aware of oppression. Is religion what you mean by culture, or is there more?

[ZombieHorde]

29. Culture is our collective behavior. Religion, schools, consumerism,

courtship rituals, memes, media, political process, etc.

[octothorpe]

18. Call a fairly progressive white guy a racist and see if it stings him...

I bet it does... Obviously he has to NOT be a racist, but do it for some stupid reason and see how insulted he gets. I think that might be the closest thing you can throw at us. Thoughts?

[ZombieHorde]

24. You might be right. nt

[ruggerson]

13. "If you're againt 'it' "

He's "against" being gay.

Please explain how that is possible, as it is akin to being against an oak tree or a field of grass.

[Hosnon]

14. First Amendment 101 fail.

I can't believe we're discussing T.I.'s knowledge of First Amendment law but, here goes...

One of the primary goals of free speech is the establishment of a marketplace of ideas, free from government interference: good ideas flourish, bad ideas die.

Being pro-homophobia is a bad idea, so expect blowback if you promote it.

We saw it recently with the guy who said he was not going to hire anyone until Obama is gone. He is experiencing the full force of the marketplace of ideas. And there is nothing wrong with that - it's how it is supposed to work.

All speech is not equal; it just must be treated equal by the government so the rest of us are free to determine its value.

[octothorpe]

19. Well put. :)

[WildNovember]

21. The free marketplace of ideas can produce orthodoxies just as intolerable as anything promoted

by government can.

[DRoseDARs]

15. "you should have the right to be against it in peace." And there's the rub: They dont do so in peace

Beatings, murder, trampling of the equal rights of gays are what such "peaceful" contrarians engage in and Tracy Morgan got in trouble not for making a joke but for saying he'd kill his own son if he found out he was gay... which brings us right back to the beginning of this sentence.

[ruggerson]

16. agreed, but even moreso the fallacy of his premise

How can anyone be "against" being gay. It's like being "against" red hair or blue eyes. These people need to start being called out on their actual words, because they are incoherent.

[FreeState]

23. Exactly - Prop 8 was not done in peace n/t

[Zorra]

20. Does T.I. stand for Total Idiot by any chance? nt

[Major Hogwash]

26. I'm going to rush out tomorrow and buy all his albums now.

NOT!!!

:)