Can you imagine Joe Paterno trying to recruit your All State all star high school senior son?

[Stinky The Clown]

How would that feel?

[JimGinPA]

1. Yeah, What About That Kid On The Team Whose Father & Grandfather Also Played For Paterno...

I guess they all got raped!


:eyes:

[lame54]

2. sitting on your couch

[Cirque du So-What]

6. Misread your post

Thought I saw an 'h' in 'sitting,' which isn't outside the realm of possibility. Search YouTube with the terms 'Joe Paterno,' 'pooped,' and 'pants,' and you're in for LULZ.

[HopeHoops]

3. No. I have three daughters.

[trumad]

4. Sorry Stinky

Sandusky liked them before Puberty.

Joe may have been a serious douche for looking the other way...but he aint no rapist.

[CatWoman]

7. i'm reading the Findings of FAct from the investigation

and I'm puzzled as to why everyone wants to tar and feather Paterno.

He reported Sandusky to his superiors - and it was his superiors who did nothing and lied to the grand jury :shrug:

[TheWraith]

12. Presumably, for not going to the police.

When someone's just told you that your assistant coach was having anal sex with a 10 year old boy in the school shower, would YOU go to the police with that?

[CatWoman]

13. yes, however that aside

I think the real "outrage" should be reserved for those whose actual responsibility was to report it to the police.

[Lars39]

16. Case could be made that Paterno would be a mandatory reporter

since he works for an educational institution.

[TheWraith]

32. If there's a child being raped, isn't it kind of EVERYONE's responsibility to report it?

I mean really, I don't see how that works. If I see a mugging in progress, I don't ignore it on the grounds that I'm not legally required to do anything. Likewise for a burglary. How would it be okay to casually ignore hearing that one of your former lieutenants raped a little boy, in the showers of your own facility, using the access to said facility you gave him, and then brush it off like it's someone else's problem? I would think most normal people would report that immediately, and if he didn't get arrested, confront him personally to find out the truth.

[CatWoman]

38. yes it is "everyone's" responsibility

which makes me all the more puzzled as to why DU is treating Paterno like Frankenstein -- pitchforks, torches and all.

the campus police covered this up. not once, but twice.

all this woulda coulda shit is for the birds.

I suppose I just have a big problem with misplaced outrage.

[trumad]

20. He should have went directly to the police

[Ter]

21. But he still saw Sandusky coming around free as a bird after that

That's when you call the police. Let's say you worked in a restaurant, and told your manager. The next week, you see the rapist back at work like nothing's happened. That's when you go to police.

[JVS]

26. Not everyone who is accused of rape gets arrested. Especially if all the police have to go on...

is a 3rd party saying that they saw a rape. Look at the timeline for the Duke lacrosse scandal, and that was with a vocal victim ready to press charges and a DA who was eager to try the case. We're still talking about arrests over a month later than the initial incident.

[TheWraith]

31. Okay, so maybe that covers the first month.

What about after that? Sandusky was free for NINE YEARS after this specific accusation.

For that matter, did Paterno never ask the people in charge of the program "By the way, did one of my former top people actually anally rape a ten year old boy in our showers?" Seems like the sort of thing that a person would have curiosity about.

Furthermore, this is after Sandusky had already resigned from Penn State in 1999 after being accused of molesting another boy; are they all going to claim they had no idea about that investigation?

The guy ran a CHILDREN'S CHARITY... did they not worry about that at all after hearing this, and knowing the guy was still running around free?

[Ter]

40. How about the guy with the red hair who walked in on it in the shower areas??

Why didn't he just beat him to an inch of his life and call the police?

[JVS]

24. Because Schultz and Curley are not famous.

And people are stupid. For example, people keep talking about this being about winning being more important than anything. This ignores the fact that since Sandusky was retired, he made no contribution to the team anymore.

This is actually the story of a botched whistle blowing. McQueary, shocked at what he had seen and in a position where he would have to put his reputation and credibility on the line against a way more powerful and influential person (Sandusky), went to Paterno, He should have gone to the police as well, but this seems to stem from a ignorance of procedure rather than malice, considering that all impetus to report this at all came from McQueary and that if he had truly wanted to cover this up he wouldn't have said anything to anyone in the first place. Paterno relayed the information up the line by Sunday morning (McQueary came to him Saturday, and had seen the rape on Friday late at night), which he was obligated to do because the law stipulates that the head of the educational organization has to file a report. What should have happened here is that Schultz should have gotten Spanier to sign off on a report (or signed off in his place) and telephoned McQueary saying "We are reporting this. By the way, you should be making your police report if you haven't already." Instead what happened is that Schultz and Curley relayed some vague verbiage about "horseplay" up to Spanier, then about a week later met with McQueary and told him that they had taken care of things (what that means is vague, but it probably made him think that he had actually reported it to them successfully), then Curley and Schultz sat back and did nothing with the information. This is especially bad because Schultz's duties included overseeing the campus (i.e. local) police. This is why the grand jury has indicted Curley and Schultz while at the same time viewing Paterno and McQueary as credible and cooperative to the investigation.

[CatWoman]

30. you get it, JVS

Thank you very much.

[frylock]

27. i dunno, but if i learned one of my assistants was raping young boys in MY locker room..

i would prolly follow up on it. like every fucking day, especially if i saw that fucker still around campus. joepa did the very MINIMUM that was required, and he should be held to account for that. fuck him.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

34. Well, he's a vile piece of shit, for starters

What other conclusion can one draw after he knew what happened and still let this guy have the run of the campus for years and years? I'm not talking about any legal responsibility he does or does not bear, I'm talking about his measure as a person. He's garbage, and he deserves no legacy other than one of abject shame.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. I didn't say he was a rapist. I implied he's a douchenozzle who doesn't give a shit about kids.

In fact, no implication. He is a douchenozzle who doesn't give a shit about kids.

He is also an accessory after the fact to multiple child rapes.

[onenote]

14. Accessory after the fact? Nope.

In order to establish that someone is guilty of being an accessory to a criminal act "after the fact" it is ncessary to establish all three of the following elements:

That the defendant harbored, concealed, maintained or in some way assisted the principal offender after the commission of a felony;
That the defendant knew the principal offender had committed or was an accessory to a felony; and
That the defendant aided the principal offender or the accessory to avoid or escape detention, arrest, trial or punishment.


You seem to think that one becomes an accessory after the fact based on subsequent crimes committed by the accused, not on one's own actions relative to a previously committed crime.

I'm glad Paterno is retiring. I think he didn't do enough to follow up. But he didn't commit a crime under any standard of law I've ever seen.

[CatWoman]

15. thank you, One Note

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Lets look at your three conditions

And for the record, I don't seem to think what you think I think.

But let's look at your three points:

That the defendant harbored, concealed, maintained or in some way assisted the principal offender after the commission of a felony;

Paterno assisted Sandusky by making a weak report rather than forcefully making sure the guy got busted by the cops. I contend that was a conscious decision by Paterno to keep his program from suffering.


That the defendant knew the principal offender had committed or was an accessory to a felony; and
Paterno knew Sandusky was anally raping boys. He was told that and presumably that's what he told the two yahoos who have now also been busted.


That the defendant aided the principal offender or the accessory to avoid or escape detention, arrest, trial or punishment.
Paterno kept his mouth shut, effectively aiding Sandusky in avoiding arrest.

So yeah. Accessory after the fact.

Paterno's a shitbag.

[onenote]

37. dimestore lawyering

but nice try.

Let me ask you the following: do you think that the president of the university was obligated to contact the authorities after he received the "weak report" from Paterno (i.e, a report that an adult male had been discovered "fondling" or engaging in "sexual conduct" with a minor? I'm pretty sure you do, since it would be pretty irresponsible to take the position that its okay to ignore reports of "sexual conduct" between a minor and an adult simply because its not specific enough. So if the President was given enough info to obligate him to go to the legal authorities, do you think that the authorities were obligated to investigate the report, even if it was only of "sexual conduct" between a minor and an adult? Again, I'm pretty certain you don't think authorities are entitled to ignore such reports and not investigate.

So....explain again how Paterno's "weak report" -- one that was sufficient to trigger an obligation on the part of the president of the university and the legal authorities to pursue the matter was somehow enough to make Paterno criminally liable.

Wait, don't bother because the plain, simple legal fact is that Paterno committed a moral crime, not a legal crime.

[Spike89]

5. That kid would be safe, but

he would need different role models for courage. He also wouldn't be advised to bring his kid brother into the locker room when certain assistant coaches are around.

I am as outraged as anyone about what occurred, but you do know Joe didn't do anything to, nor did anything happen to, any of the football players recruited to Penn State, right? The horrible abuse was heaped upon children who were being "helped" by a foundation being run by one of JoePa's assistant coaches.

I won't even defend Paterno from charges he is a coward. Even if he didn't believe the charges, his responsibility to see that they were fully investigated go beyond the mere reporting that he did do. I personally think he should be fired immediately. However, he did not abuse any children, witness them being abused, and did not violate any recruits in the manner you are implying.

This is totally icky. However, there is plenty to be outraged over just sticking to the facts.

[jakefrep]

23. Totally fine.

Paterno wasn't the one diddling the little kids.

[Cali_Democrat]

8. USC was given a 3 year bowl ban and a huge scholarship reduction

When an agent, who wasn't even connected to the school in any way, gave a player and his parents some improper financial benefits. The school was not told and had no idea, but they were still punished severely.

Now you have a coach at Penn State criminally molesting and raping numerous young boys. The coach and the school admins knew about it, but they did nothing. I bet they get a slap on the wrist.

What a world.

[ellisonz]

18. Agreed.

The NCAA punished USC because they didn't want to compete against SC in bowl games...The Miami scandal and now this are far worse but I bet they both get slaps on the wrist compared to what USC received for a total of improprieties with two players that were not directly related to the program.

I'm hoping for the "death penalty" for Miami for 2 seasons and a bowl ban on Penn State for 5 years.

[tableturner]

29. About USC.......the truth.....

What I am writing about USC does not address the Penn State situation at all. I am as disgusted about Penn State as any reasonable person should be, meaning I am totally and thoroughly disgusted.

About USC, the NCAA penalizes a school if the violations are so vast and numerous, and openly known, that it is obvious that a school should have known. That rule is in effect to prevent the "did not know/looking the other away" defense of violations.

From the following article:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ys-uscpenalties061010

"The report indicates that Bush and Mayo were able to engage in rule-breaking at least in part because of USC’s negligence, which included lack of staffing in the area of compliance, lax regulation on the sidelines and in the locker room, and, in at least one instance, a rebuke of running backs coach Todd McNair, who the NCAA cited for lying during the investigation." For instance, it was widely known that agents were often in the locker room, or on the sidelines with special passes during games.

In other words, USC had things purposely set up in a way that made it difficult to find out about violations, meaning that they were looking the other way with regard to certain obvious activities. Given all of the publicity about violations at other schools, USC knew that it should monitor things more closely, but failed to do so.

Meanwhile, USC's athletic program benefited tremendously from Bush's and Mayo's participation within the football and basketball programs respectively. Don't you think that if high school athletes know about houses, cars, and huge monetary payments to players, that many of them would look to go to that school so they could receive the same improper benefits?

Here is what they found, among other findings:

"Among the report’s findings concerning Bush, the NCAA detailed 18 specific instances of violations by the running back and his family. Based largely on the relationship with several marketing agents, the violations included multiple cash payments, a house for Bush’s parents, an automobile outfitted with rims and a stereo system, airfare, hotel stays, limousine service, meals, auto repairs, clothing, furniture and appliances.

"The NCAA detailed at least 12 instances of violations by Mayo, based on his relationship with a runner for a sports agency. Those violations included the receipt of cash, airfare, meals, training sessions, merchandise, wireless phones, the payment of phone bills, a television and other gifts and favors."

Again, if a school purposely has weak compliance and looks the other way, it helps them to recruit superior players. Their violations constituted a lot more than ".......an agent, who wasn't even connected to the school in any way, gave a player and his parents some improper financial benefits".

As for this comment: "The school was not told and had no idea, but they were still punished severely......", as stated before, they purposely set up their system to make it easy to use the excuse that they did not know. That is why the NCAA penalizes institutions if it is obvious that they purposely looked the other way and/or if things were set up in a way that made it difficult to spot the infractions.

My school, the University of Florida, was penalized severely for these types of violations in the eighties, and as a result, they have a very active, almost paranoid system in place to do all they can to prevent the infractions. They even have an ongoing marketing program aimed at alumni, centered around the proposition that alums should call the athletic department and "ask before you act" if there is even the tiniest question of propriety. I once employed a kid who was being recruited by the Gators, and through cross referencing, they found out that the owner of the business (me) was associated with the university. Their compliance officer actually called me up to check, and they were not satisfied until they investigated and realized that he had been working for me prior to his recruitment, and they found out that he did his job and got paid just like all my other employees. In the early nineties, one of UF's best defensive players showed up in the fall with a bright new car. When he could not prove that he or his family had paid for it, he was permanently dismissed from the team, and he then entered a supplemental NFL draft that exists due to that type of situation.

If USC had a strong compliance program in place like UF's, meaning that it was obvious that the school did everything they could to prevent and expose cheating, they would not have been seriously penalized. Plenty of schools find out about violations via their active compliance programs, then self report to the NCAA, and avoid serious penalties.

[ellisonz]

33. So by your logic...

...If a total of 30 instances of violations, again by a total of 2 players, is worth 2 years of no bowl games and dozens of scholarships what does Miami's thousands of instances deserve? The USC violations were neither vast nor numerous in comparison. I would also note the head of the NCAA committee was previously the long-time athletic director of the University of Miami.

The chairman said the NCAA was going to make an example out of USC in the hope it would serve as a warning to other schools. USC football was slammed with a two-year bowl ban and the loss of 30 scholarships as the result of violations involving star running back Reggie Bush.

The chairman said the NCAA concluded that even if USC didn't know what was going on in San Diego, well, it should have. It was a powerful message.

"High-profile athletes demand high-profile compliance," the chairman said.

The chairman's name was Paul Dee. He was the former, long-time athletic director at the University of Miami.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/17/sports/la-sp-0818-miami-ncaa-dufresne-20110818

[tableturner]

35. Miami, if not the death penalty, then close.....

I agree about Miami. It is a cesspool so bad that they may deservedly receive the death penalty, and if not, then the sanctions will be more severe than USC's, as they should be. Compared to Miami's infractions, USC's were not vast and numerous, but regardless, even though they are less egregious and serious than Miami's, by all the usual measures, they still were vast and numerous. The fact that Miami's are so much more serious does not mean that USC's were anything but very major. Murder is more serious than robbing a bank, but robbing a bank is an exceedingly serious unlawful act.

USC deserved everything they got from the NCAA. By the way, I agree about the hypocrisy of the former Miami AD.

[trumad]

39. You have no idea what you are talking about...

Miami fan all my life and I know almost every detail of this case, a case that was blown way out of proportion by the media.

[Cirque du So-What]

9. Relatively safe

After all, the perpetrator likes them much younger than my late-adolescent son :sarcasm:

Seriously, I consider it possible that this goes on in other schools as well; a high-profile position within an athletic organization at a major university would provide plenty of opportunities for becoming involved in 'youth sports' programs. This guy at PSU probably defied the odds in that he actually got caught.

[gratuitous]

10. Joe doesn't do recruiting visits anymore

In fact, my reading of the Lawyers, Guns and Money blog indicates that Paterno doesn't do much in the way of coaching anymore, either. For several years he's been the figurehead image of Penn State Football, but the actual work of running the program has been left to his assistants. Paterno doesn't roam the sidelines (he's up in the press box) and doesn't do recruiting visits. Now that he has his dubious "record" as the winningest coach ever, he'll hang it up. And be remembered in sports lore (if he's remembered much at all) in the same category as Woody Hayes, Pete Rose and Barry Bonds.

[onenote]

17. Time Line

There seems to be a significant amount of confusion about the chronology of events involving Sandusky and Paterno and the crimes Sandusky is accused of having committed. For starters,most of the acts of abuse that Sandusky is accused of having committed occurred before the incident that was reported to Paterno. Several of those incidents were reported and/or investigated and/or observed. Any number of people, including the DA that refused to prosecute and the temporary employee janitor who decided not to follow the advice he was given to report an incident he observed all are, imo, far more deserving of condemnation than Paterno. Indeed, the detectives who listened in on a call with Sandusky four years before the incident that was reported to Paterno and even the mother of the victim of the 1998 incident all can be faulted, arguably, for not having loudly brought the matter to the attention of the public before or after the authorities failed to act.

Paterno should have followed up. Its time for him to retire. But in the long line of villians in this story, he's pretty far down the list in terms of those that enabled this predator.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7212054/key-dates-penn-state-nittany-lions-sex-abuse-case

[JVS]

19. I'd feel very happy for my son and look forward to a bright future for him.

Then I'd tell him to go somewhere else thought because PSU football is going to SUCK for at least a few years in the wake of this scandal. Just the purging of people alone will make getting a functional program going again difficult, then there is the matter of NCAA sanctions that may be forthcoming.

[HappyMe]

22. Actually I would be wary of any college

athletic recruiter. I'm sure that there are decent ones out there, but still...
I'm not even talking about rape here. As a mom of 2 awesome sons, there is something about them I don't trust.

[taterguy]

25. I'd be royally POed at the doc who snipped me if I had a son

After suing him I'd worry about Paterno.

[robdogbucky]

28. Recruiting? Did you say Recruiting?

Here's A Very Ironic Letter Mike McQueary Sent To Penn State Recruits


Leah Goldman|Nov. 9, 2011, 12:57 PM

Mike McQueary witnessed a 10-year-old boy being sexually abused by Jerry Sandsuky in a shower at Penn State in 2002. McQueary is still a coach at Penn State, and one of the staff's top recruiters. Here's a letter sent to Penn State recruits, signed by McQueary (via @TomVH).


"...The college football world has once again been thrown into controversy. During this time I would like to remind you that Penn State is 1 of 2 Division 1 institutions that have never been investigated or sanctioned for any NCAA infractions.

Think about this as you make your college decision. Coach Paterno's saying "Success With Honor," has value here. It is not something we take lightly."

Think Penn State

Coach McQueary

http://www.businessinsider.com/mike-mcqueary-recruiting-letter-2011-11





Penn State Scandal: Mike McQueary Away From Team, 'On Recruiting Trip'

Nov 08 4:12p by Jason Kirk

Penn St. Nittany Lions assistant coach Mike McQueary isn't with the team right now and is away on a recruiting trip, reports ESPN's Chris Fowler. McQueary is best known as of late as the former graduate assistant who observed defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky raping a 10-year-old and then went to tell coach Joe Paterno.

McQueary played at Penn State, and has been a position coach since 2000.

His role in the story has been in question, most powerfully by the mother of an alleged victim:

"I don't even have words to talk about the betrayal that I feel," said the mom of Victim Six. " was a grown man, and he saw a boy being sodomized ... He ran and called his daddy?"

Hard to imagine just how well that recruiting he's supposedly doing is going.

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/8/2547838...