John Stossel: Why 'Buy American' Is a Dumb Idea

[redqueen]

It was really hard finding the dumbest parts to include here. It's chock full o' stupid, of course.

(snip)

"Buy American" is a dumb idea. It would not only not create prosperity, it would cost jobs and make us all poorer. On my Fox Business show last week, David R. Henderson, an economist at the Hoover Institution, explained why.

"Almost all economists say it's nonsense," he said. "And the reason is: We should buy things where they're cheapest. That frees up more of our resources to buy other things, and other Americans get jobs producing those things."


(snip)

The same applies to so-called sweatshop-free products. I'm for free trade, but trade means you get the lowest price, and that might mean you buy something from what some people call a sweatshop. The name itself conveys abuse.
Henderson says that's wrong. The workers aren't abused.

"In fact, they're better off taking those jobs. ... The mistake Americans make is they think they would never work in a sweatshop and therefore they say these people shouldn't. Well, no one's offering those people green cards. Those people are stuck in those countries. They're choosing their best of a bunch of bad options. And when you take away someone's best of a bad option, they're worse off."

(snip)

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/11/02/why-buy-american-is-dumb-idea/?intcmp=obnetwork#ixzz1d8G0YV7D

Yes, John. Other Americans get jobs making fast food. Or working at Wal Mart. It's working wonderfully so far. Brilliant.

Oh and yes, workers are sweatshops are totally not abused. Totally. Just ignore those times when they are. Which is most of the time. (No, we're not fooled by faked audits.)


It is seriously depressing to think that yes, there enough gullible non-thinkers out there to make peddling this kind of idiocy worthwhile. Ugh.

[trumad]

1. my Fox Business show---

nuff said

[Ed Suspicious]

9. These FOX fools are ridiculous.

Last night in my music theory class, a comment was made by the professor that I didn't hear, his response to the comment was something to the effect of, "You seem to have a real understanding of macro-economics." to which the student replied, I do, I watch Fox News. Prof broke into laughter thinking the kid was witty and ironic he exclaimed "That was the best comment I've heard all week!". The laughter abruptly stopped and we were quickly directed back on topic when the kid started mumbling something about Obama messing something up and only fox telling the truth about it.

[Initech]

78. Fox Business is the worst channel on TV!

I saw an interview with the CEO of US Airways that made my blood boil. And then it was followed by some dumb ass opinions about "JOBS" (or lack thereof) that were too stupid to comprehend.

[Demonaut]

2. this is so laughably sad, years ago anyone saying this would've been pilloried

but the RW have so twisted their bases opinion that this now goes as gospel

John got his start exposing injustices and now he'd their biggest cheerleader

[redqueen]

3. I know, right? It's absolutely breathtaking.

Just ... wow.

[Blue_Tires]

5. what's strange is Stossel isn't even being original...

Wasn't Friedman saying the same shit a decade ago, but worded a little better?

[Blue Owl]

4. Cheap-labor republicans LOVE John Stossel

Somewhere a couple moustaches are smiling.

[redqueen]

8. I haven't seen the 'don't buy American' tactic used before...

to me it seems just unbelievably tone-deaf. I hope it backfires quite nastily.

[MadMaddie]

44. Oh I gotta feeling it will

[Quantess]

6. John Stossel is a RW tool

and a fucking asshole, to boot.

I loved the part where he showed his face at OWS and got yelled at by protesters. That was him, right? Or maybe it was Geraldo. I think both of them got yelled at and got the "FOX LIES" chant. I can't remember now, but I distinctly remember that Stossel resembled a scraggly pigeon on the NYC street.

[deutsey]

22. That's why listening to John Stossel is dumb n/t

[Quantess]

39. Thanks, but I don't want your scraggly NYC street pigeon,

named John Stossel. You keep him.

[Kolesar]

7. Remember when Stossel mouthed off to a "pro wrestler" who then broke his eardrums?

http://www.google.com/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Stossel+mouthed+off+to+a+%22pro+wrestler#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=on&source=hp&q=Stossel++%22pro+wrestler%22&pbx=1&oq=Stossel++%22pro+wrestler%22&aq=f&aqi=g-v1&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=16633l19063l0l19447l2l2l0l0l0l0l1433l1433l7-1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=278d45f5485af6ea&biw=991&bih=646

[butterfly77]

63. I just had to see that again...

I have a wish list of many I would to see get a bit of that.

[Romulox]

10. This is the same logic Toyota driving "liberals" use. This is the same as Al Gore used re: NAFTA

:shrug:

[redqueen]

12. On Al Gore and all the rest of the DLC & New Democrats re: NAFTA, I agree.

On cars though, not so much. If the factories are here, it's American made.

[DainBramaged]

16. My dear redqueen, if you truly believe they are American made.............

spend a few days at their parts depot.

[redqueen]

18. Aha, yes...

the parts. Well... thankfully American cars are now made to be more competitive quality wise, so hopefully we'll see that changing.

[Fawke Em]

35. Hubby just chucked a foreign car (made in America) for a Ford.

The foreign POS was breaking down all the time, while my Ford never does.

It may be anecdotal, but he saw the difference on a personal level and went with the better track record.

[closeupready]

50. Ford vehicles are solid.

If I don't get a Toyota next time, I'll get a Ford.

[dmallind]

87. Where was the Ford made? From what % US parts? nt

[happyslug]

42. I have been looking for a new car, may have to opt for the Chevy Cruze over the Ford Fiesta

Both cars get decent fuel economy, but the UAW makes the Cruze in Lordstown Ohio, while the Fiesta is produced in Mexico. I have less objections to Mexican production then to Far East production, but the closer to home the more of my own money I have a chance of returning to me.

UAW Made cars in the USA:

http://www.uaw.org/cars

List of Union made tires:

http://www.usw.org/media_center/news_articles?id=0409

[DainBramaged]

59. Don't get a Cruze with RS package, suspension too stiff, seats too hard

I drove one yesterday. The LS base is GREAT lots of content, and has tons of air bags along with great milage. And very comfortable with suspension that soaks up the bums and divots.

[happyslug]

65. I am looking at Six speed manual Eco, for the better fuel economy

I had been driving a 1995 Five Speed Manual Jeep Wrangler, which I had purchased new in January 1995, after 250,000 and heavy highway use in addition to some off road use (and being stolen three times), the cost to pass inspection was $2000 last February and my mechanic and I decided it was time to put it away (Four new tires, New Brakes, new exhaust, the engine needed new mounting and all if that HAD to be done to pass inspection. In addition the Jeep needed extensive other work, the Glove box, which had been destroyed the second time it was stolen, but I never did replace, needed replaced, and the gas gauge had long since indicted how much gas was in gas tank, I estimated the need to gas up by mileage instead, the oil pressure gauge had not worked in years, the driver's side done needed the plastic panel cover replaced and the window mechanism worked out so that the roll up window would work properly, but none of these problems affected the ability of the Jeep to pass inspection).

All told it was time to retire the Jeep. I had a 1997 five speed manual V-6 Dakota which was and is in much better shape, but gets about 19 mpg unlike my manual four speed 151 Inch Four Cylinder Jeep which did about 21-22 mpg. Given I put on 20,000 miles a year, the difference is noticeable.

Thus I am looking at the Eco, but right now I do NOT have a Car payment and money is tight, and according to my calculations it would be cheaper for me to run the Dakota then buy the Cruze Eco unless Gasoline reaches $9 a gallon (42 mpg of the Eco vs 19 mpg for my Dakota, a huge saving in gasoline but at the cost of monthly car payments).

My problem is I do NOT trust the Dakota to last much longer. It is in much better shape then my Jeep, do more to the fact it has a 4.0 V6 as opposed to my old 2.5 Liter four in the Jeep. Larger engines can take more abuse, but at the cost of fuel economy. The Dakota also has only 150,000 miles on it, as opposed to the Jeeps 250,000 miles. The Dakota has coil springs but the 1996 Jeep still used old fashioned Leaf Springs, which was harder on the driver and the components of the Jeep. The seats of the Dakota are deeper and stronger, the Jeep's driver seat needed to be replaced (and I had replaced it once already).

Back to the Eco, I did drive an LS non-eco Cruze and liked how it operated with the Six Speed Manual. My only complaint was the six speed was to smooth (I am used to Truck Manual transmissions, which require a lot more effort then the six speed of the Eco). I sat in the back seat and I was comfortable (I am six feet 2 inches tall). It was NOT the back seat of the Suburban (a car I drive extensively in the past on long trips) but at 42 mpg a lot better then the last Suburban I drove at 12 mpg.

Now, I had a habit of driving that Suburban with Eight people in it, that would take at least TWO ECOs to transport eight people and unlike the Suburban four people in a Eco will affect the Car's fuel economy, thus 8 people in a Suburban makes more sense in MPG than two Ecos with Four people each.

I once owned a Renault Alliance five speed 1.7 liter car. Great Fuel economy, but you did notice the additional drag on the engine when you had four adults in the car. On the flats when I was in the Alliance by myself, I could pull out in second gear, the gearing was so low given the power of the engine, but with four adult males I HAD to use First gear to get the Alliance going. The Engine Gearing ratio required the use of that lowest gear, something you accept in a small car with a small engine. You NEVER saw that with a Suburban for eight people in a suburban was, at best, a small additional weight that the engine and transmission had to deal with.

Even given that restriction, the small turbo charge engine of the Eco makes more and more sense to me. On the other hand I work for Legal Aid, and who knows what Congress will do to out funding come January. I will try to pay off my one credit card till I fell more confident in my job, but I am looking at the Eco for the Fuel Economy more then anything else.

[DainBramaged]

84. ECO tires are low resistance, which means easy puncture and more expensive to replace

Get the non-Eco and put nitrogen in the tires, get a K&N air filter when they become available and go to full synth oil instead of the blend the factory uses. We have seen actual 35MPG combined on the non-Ecos. and 8.5 sec 0-60 is no slouch for highway on-ramp adventures.


The safety features (10 air bags) and standard content blows away the Yaris and Fit.

[happyslug]

91. Campare my 1995 Wrangler with the ECO

Wrangler advantages:

No Air Bags to go off when you hit something.

A "Good Feel" for the road (You feel every bump, the faster you go the more you feel, if example going over 50mph, the 1995 Jeep with its leaf springs will quickly inform you of ANY pebble on the road). Makes it hard to fall asleep while driving.

Tires run $120-150 a piece.

You know where ALL the gas stations are, for you do not pass to many without have to gas up.

You never have to worry about the radio working (The air noise from the air gaps even with a hard top drowns out any noise the radio can make).

Nice signs, saying the doors of the Jeep will NOT keep you inside the Jeep in case of an accident.

The same aerodynamics as an Open Box, i.e. as you go faster you can hear the engine use more and more gasoline, even over the increased road noise.

Huge amount of after market items, including seats, body parts, engines (up to and including V8s), transmissions, rear axles, bumpers, brush guards, doors, lights and even radios.

Full size spare tire (And ways to attach additional spare. It is easy to overload a Jeep, just attach items till it rolls over.

Disadvantages of the Cruze:

I will miss most of the Gas stations in town do to its high mileage.

I will lose touch of the road I am traveling on, no longer feel the bumps left by the State Highway department to keep me awake (Referred to as "Pot holes").

Able to go over 50 mph without the Engine straining to overcome the Air Resistance.

The air noise is so low that I can tell if the Radio is working or not by just turning the radio on, no need for electrical tests to make sure the Radio is working.

The back seat is so comfortable people will WANT to travel in the back seat AND given the Curze has four doors, to easy for people to get into the back seat.

A wasted space known as a "Trunk", Tools, spare tires, groceries should be carried on people's laps NOT in some isolated space in the rear of the Vehicle. How can you tell if you have want to put in the Car? In a Jeep you just have to look around to see where it is laying, in a Curze you have to open the "Trunk" to see if your groceries are still in the car.

Any what is this thing called "Air Conditioning"?? Everyone knows the best way to travel is to remove the doors and hardtop and go top less in hot weather, even if the Temperature is 100 degrees with 100% humility and you stuck in a traffic jam going no where.

Just comments on why a Jeep Wrangler is a better car then a Cruze.

[DainBramaged]

92. Well done

And remember, for three years Any Chevy dealer in the country is available if something goes wrong.....and towing is free..........and the power train is warranted for 5 years or 100,000 miles.......and GM sells a nicely priced extended warranty..................and it's made in Detroit..............45% of the total content is made here and it is built where they said it could never be built,,,,,,,,

[happyslug]

93. I liked my Wrangler, but its short comings are well known.

Gasoline is expected to drop over the next three to six months. After that date no one is really given a call one way or another. The drop in prices are expected for several reasons:

1. It is the fall, and it is traditionally the time when refiners convert from emphasizing Gasoline to Diesel/Fuel Oil/Kerosene (The difference between the three is more technical then real, AND the biggest difference is the different tax rated). This follows the traditional drop in Gasoline usage with the end of the Summer driving period. Thus demand for gasoline goes down as does the price. This can be made worse if Europe has a very cold winter. When oil it refined, you can produce more Diesel then gasoline OR more gasoline then Diesel depending on how you refine the oil, but no matter how much you emphasis Diesel, you will get some gasoline (And if you emphasis Gasoline you still get so much diesel, but that generally is NOT a problem). In Europe Home heating oil is extensively used as is Diesel (Much more then in the US). In very cold European winters gasoline stocks build up do to lack of demand in Europe and it is shipped to the US to minimize the loss do to the increase in demand for Home Heating oil and the shortage of Demand for gasoline in Europe during the same time period (i.e in the Winter months). This drop in gasoline price is "Normal" and expected but still has an affect on gasoline prices in the US.

2. The economy is still going south, with the breakup of the Euro, Europe is headed for a subsequent recession and thus a general drop in all demands for oil. This will lead to a drop in demand for oil, and thus its price.

3. China has about maxed out its ability to import oil so any increase in demand from China is expected to be small. Made smaller do to the drop in demand for manufacturing in China do to the Recession in Europe and the US.

4. Libya oil will be back into production, lessening supply shortages.

5. Drop in US Military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, which leads to a drop in use of oil by the US Military and thus less demand for oil (more to do with the Taliban holding up for the winter then any real actions by the part of the US, it is WINTER in Afghanistan).

All told, it looks like a drop in the demand for oil over the next three to six months. Come spring it will be a different story. By then the Euro crisis may have run its course and Europe will be on a come back and thus increase demand for oil from Europe, India, China and the US. The Taliban would have come out of its winter quarters, harvested its winter Wheat (The main source of food in Afghanistan) and resumed fighting, leading to increase use of oil by the US military to counter those attacks. Refineries will be converting from emphasizing Home Heating oil in favor of Gasoline as people start to drive on vacations and other summer trips in the US. Thus starting about March 2012 the price of Gasoline will be going back up.

Please note, this assume NO major catastrophes, i.e. the West Antarctic Ice Sheet does not break up and flood the ports of the World so oil can NOT be shipped anywhere (And most refineries, which are on the coast are flooded out) OR the House of Saud (or its allies) loses power in Saudi Arabia OR one of the Persian Gulf States, a violent revolution in Greece, Spain or Italy over the Collapse of the Euro (I do not think such revolution will break out in Germany or France, but one never knows), China decides to divert internal dissent by invading Taiwan, or some other catastrophe that I can not think of at the present time (For example Mexico blows up into revolution do to how bad it peasants are being treated).

I Bring all of this up for the fear of a real Catastrophe is real given the world situation today. You had more stability during the Cold War (Huge areas of the World was either pro-US or pro-USSR or pro-Red China, and the areas NOT in any of those camps could and did play each against the other so much of the world was stable. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the ability of most of the world to play the USSR against the US ended, and that has lead to more instability as the US has done its best to expand US influence to more and more of the world. This includes control over the World's oil.

Thus my big fear of buying AND non buying a new car. What will happen over the next six months? Will I still have a job to pay for the Car? What will the price of oil be? I do NOT see it staying below $3 a gallon after the next six months (Through it may go below $3 a gallon over the next six months), but I also do NOT see it reaching $9 a gallon. This is it better for me to keep driving my Dakota or buying a Eco? Or do a split the difference and go with the Hybrid Scooter Piaggio has? The MP 500 sells for $8900 but only get 50-55 mpg (And this is a NON-EPA test, so you have to be careful when comparing it to the Eco's EPA test 42 mpg). The MP-250 is say to gets 55-60 mpg, but again a NON-EPA estimate.

I remember the days BEFORE the Auto makers had to ONLY use EPA Mileage estimates, a 1972 Mercury full size car can NOT get 24 mpg, but FORD advertise one of its Mercury full size cars did that, but did NOT say HOW the car was able to do so. GM and Chrysler were equally "truthful", for example giving the mileage between two cites, where the road goes only down hill AND then turned off and on the engine to maximize fuel economy, run the car up to 25mph, then turned the car off and coast to almost a stop, then restart the car and run it up to 25 mph then repeat, it is a way to maximize fuel economy but NO one drives that way). During that you can get a Full Size car of the 1970s to get 24 mpg, when it normally would get 10 mpg. It was do to "Truthful" ads like the one I mentioned that Congress mandated that auto makers ONLY use the EPA test results. They are problems with the EPA test but it is a good test to compare one car to another for both underwent the same test. The Mileage for Motorcycles and Scooters do NOT come under EPA testing and similar games as the Auto makers did in the 1970s could be legally done by them. Thus it is hard to compare the ECO's 42 mpg to the claims of 60 mpg for the Piaggio MP250.



http://www.mositesmotorsports.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=04995691X11K9K2011J7I11I28JPMQ564R0&veh=176824&CatDesc=&ModelYear=2010

One thing about the MP-250, it would be easy to park. If I keep my Dakota (Which I plan to do even if I get an ECO), the two would be a good mix, MP-250 on most days, the Dakota on cold snowy days.

Yes, a lot thread but more me trying to put down on "paper" my thoughts as to getting a new car then anything else. Sorry about the rant, but one way I review my options is to "Write" them down as I am doing here. One must think these things through.

One last argument against the MP-250. I work for Legal Services and we are unionized by the UAW, thus I have to support my fellow union members. That restricts my options as to a new car, but the ECO is looking like the Car I will opt for. On the other hand I may just stay with the only the Dakota as my ride.

On top of that I have to consider Congress's plans for Legal Services, the Republicans in the House wants to cut Legal Services by 27%, the Senate is looking at a 2% cut, at a time I have seen more and more people applying for our services. We just had a long contract negotiations and we all had to take a pay cut, what do we do next lay people off? I have been with my present employer 10 years, but do to budget restrictions over the last 10 years there are only a handful of people with less seniority then I, thus I can see ME being laid off. The idea of of no job and a car payment is NOT that appearing to me.

Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.

[KamaAina]

47. Big Three cars have lots of foreign parts, too

especially Canadian. Remember, the Autopact predates even the U.S.-Canada FTA, let alone NAFTA.

[DainBramaged]

60. And Canada isn't Japan.........

[happyslug]

94. Isn't Canada part of the US????

I like pointing out there are three terms in the English langauge that people often used interchangeability, but are three different concepts.

1. State. Now the United States is made up of 50 states AND is a State itself for a State is a LEGAL ENTITY. Canada is clearly an Independent State from the Untied States for it has it OWN legal justification for existing.

2. Nation. A Nation is people who view themselves as one. The Classic case is Germany, prior to Unification in the mid 1800s Germany was made up of several different Independent States, but all of them spoke German and saw themselves as one people, even while fighting each other. The key was a common language German and extensive trade among the various German States. Prior to the Reformation Germany had one Religion, another factor in people seeing themselves as one people. In fact even after the Reformation Protestant Germans thought nothing of sending troops to help Catholic Austria defeat the Second Turkish attempt to take Vienna. The Reformation in Germany was more Political then Religious in its foundation and in its subsequent development in Germany.

Now as to the US, Religion is NOT viewed as a factor by most Americans as to who is an American. Certain accepted traditional Christian attitudes are accepted (i.e. willingness to tolerate each other for example, and almost uniform celebration of Christmas) and a background in Christianity is assumed, but complete acceptance of Christianity as one's religion has never been a factor in who Americans view as Americans.

Blood lines is another traditional way to define a "Nation", the various Native American People are often referred to as "Nations" for this reason. The US and Canada do have some blood line ties, but these are secondary to other cultural ties. Like religion, bloodlines ties do exist but have always been minimized by most Americans. Thus the Nationality issues of the late 1800s Europe did NOT arise in the US except along lines that reflected the economic affect of unrestricted immigration as to wages. Once immigration was restricted and no longer had a bad affect on wages, nationality, except as a point of pride, disappeared from American Politics and only has reappeared as wages are again being pushed downward by people willing to immigrant to the US to work for lower wages.

On the other hand the being able to use the English Language is viewed as one of the indication of being an American (please note this does NOT mean English is one's mother's tongue, but that people can communicate in English as a default). This assumption of knowing English was and is so strong that German, at one time the second most spoken language in the US, has disappeared as a Mother Tongue for most people, French Spanish and Native American Languages are spoken in vast areas of the US and Canada (and given great weight in areas where any of those languages are spoken) but English is assumed to be the Common Language of Americans and Canadians.

Another factor is that we all accept the English Common Law as the background for our laws. We do tolerate variations from the English Common law (For example the French Civil Code in Quebec and Louisiana, and some traditional Native American law on Reservations) but all are heavy influenced by English Common Law traditions.

Thus Americans and Canadians can be viewed as one Nation, the difference between the two is less then the difference between the American North and the American South.

3. Country. Country is more a term of Geography then anything else. One old saying went this way "Egypt is a River, Germany is a Language, Britain is an Island, France is a Nation". Notice the comments as to Egypt and Britain, these are geographical terms NOT a Legal, language, blood lines or other definition. River and lakes unite people for they permit easy movement of people and goods. The Mississippi River drainage system (which includes the Ohio, Red and Missouri Rivers as while as others), unite the country into one geographical region. The level of transport between the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River Drainage system is flat and short (Can be less then 20 miles across level land, the result of the Glaciers of the last Ice age that when they melted smooth out most of the American Mid West, Ohio to Minnesota, and then broke north of the Appalachian Mountains to the Atlantic via the St Lawrence to make both water system for all practical purposes one. There is No Mountains like the Pyrenees separating France from Spain, or the Alps separating Italy from the Rest of Europe, or the North Sea separating England from France. It is one huge geographical area.

Now, you may say, that does NOT include the East or West Coast of America, and you will be right, but the Appalachian Mountains while a barrier, it was one that was easy to overcome given that the best way to get items from North American to Europe was via the Gulf Stream. Thus the East Coast saw the Mississippi River Drainage system as a huge extension of the East Coast. In reality, the pull of the Mississippi River Drainage system pulled other geographical areas to it, this includes the East Coast and the North West. California is like the Rio Grande River Valley and the Colorado River Valley, drawn to the Mississippi River Drainage system rather then the Mexican Valley economic system do to the weakness of the Mexican Valley Economic System over the last 200 years compared to the Mississippi River Drainage system. Alaska has no where else to go (it is to small in population to ever be truly independent) and Hawaii became part of the US for the trade winds from Panama took American Ships to Hawaii, where they could stock up, and then take the Japanese Current to the West Coast. Yes, Hawaii was a rest stop before it was a Military base and a tourist attraction.

Conclusion

This is getting long, but just a comment that Canada is an Independent State, as that term is used internationally, but it is NOT an independent Nation or Country, as those terms are traditionally defined. Given this situation Canada and the US has since the US Civil War worked together economically (Canada even adopted the Dollar and tried to keep the Canadian Dollar equal to the US Dollar till after WWII, and then tried to keep it close till the 1970s. This was true even as the United Kingdom wanted all of its Colonies to use the British Pound system instead. The draw of the Mississippi River Drainage system was to much for Canada to stay that close to Britain and that far apart economically from the US.

Thus my Comment, is Canada an Independent Country? No, it is an Independent State, but the trade and movement of money and people is to extensive between the US and Canada for the US and Canada to be that independent of each other.

[DainBramaged]

96. I guess you assumed I didn't take history back in the day?

If Canada is an independent state, why are they represented in the UN as a country?


Please, no more lectures you lost me when you tried to convince me Canada is a state, and when my eyes roll up in my head because people try to modify history, I just say


Cya.

[Johonny]

40. The DU rule is no American made product

is ever American made enough to satisfy every other DUer. Thus reading threads you might conclude you are in no way helping the US economy buying American made. And yet everyone claims to want the US to make more stuff. I agree with you a car built in the US even with foreign parts is better than a car made overseas. It would be great if the parts were made here and the factory was allowed to have a union... but i willing to see the forest through the trees rather than nick-pick Made in America posts to the point the only logical conclusion is made in America doesn't matter because nothing will ever be made enough in America to matter.

[Union Scribe]

69. One of the excuses, anyway.

There seems to be a neverending supply of them.

"My uncle's buddy bought an American car in '83 and that damn thing fell apart!"

[City Lights]

11. I'm in favor of outsourcing John Stossel.

Preferably where there are no cameras and no internet connection.

[TK421]

28. just outsource that horrid pornstache of his

[jeff47]

43. I'm sure we could find someone from the 3rd world to spout libertarian platitudes for far less money

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

13. Holy shit! That mustache organism has finally taken over its host. nt

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

17. True, but I think most people understand those differences.

Did you see this thread, btw?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=2242251

[quiller4]

45. I take issue with your gas-guzzling American cars comments

they may have been true decades ago but are no longer. The mid-size American made cars get better mileage now than their Japanese mid-size competitors. For those who need larger wokr trucks, domestic brands are now both more efficient and more reliable.

I'm not in the market for a new car. My 2006 Dodge Stratus has less than 40,000 miles on it so that gives you some idea of how little I drive. Almost all the driving I do is stop-and-go in city and I average 26 mph---better than my younger sister gets in her Nissan Sentra of the same vintage or the 21 mpg that my older sis gets in her newer Camry. Driving as little as I do, it is rare that I gas up more than once a month. It also matters a great deal to me that I'm driving a car that was union made in the USA and that I take it to a dealership with union mechanics for service/maintenance.

"Buy American" isn't irrelevant. You can and I do search for American made products. I replaced my ancient Hoover (now made entirely overseas) with an Oreck vacuum made in Cookeville TN. My SAS shoes not only fit my long, narrow (9.5 AAA) feet, they are made in a family-owned factory in Texas. My spouse an I both wear All American Clothing brand jeans which are crafted in Ohio of USA-made fabric by union workers.

Granted, there are things we can no longer find that are made in the USA if we buy new. Before Ibuy an imported product, I look to see if we can find a used item that was made here. Such recycling is good for the environment and it helps me stretch my retiree's budget.

[Skittles]

83. mr "independent" is just a GM trasher

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

15. The workers aren't abused.

I wonder if those fucks would like to work ONE DAY under the same conditions, no bathroom breaks for hours, no food breaks, 18 hour days. Assholes.

[Botany]

19. Please

"On my Fox Business show last week, David R. Henderson, an economist at the Hoover Institution .... "

An institution named after the "father of the great depression" now there is a place to be proud of!

[mmonk]

20. View American so you don't have to watch Stossel on Murdoch's Fox.

[demigoddess]

21. john stossel is not a thinker, he is a regurgitator.

as are most republicans, sadly.

[avaistheone1]

34. I always had the impression he is a Libertarian.

I think he is a pin head regardless.

[arcane1]

23. So, by NOT buying American-made products, you save money...

which can then be spent on American-made products!

Genius!!

Or something :silly:

[Octafish]

24. Stossel's a tool for the tools that have run America into the ground.

A not very sharp one, at that.

Thank you for the heads-up on where Corporate McPravda is leading We the People. K&R.

As you make clear, Redqueen, the nation needs to do more than move money from the middle class and poor to the wealth to be great. We have the manpower, the means, brains and will to do so. What's missing is the capital. And that's controlled, largely, by the same people who control John Stossell.

[redqueen]

27. If someone had told me 10 years ago

that the RW would try peddling this idea, especially in an economic climate like we're in now... I'd have offered to eat my hat if it happened.

Then again, if someone had said 25 years ago that Democrats would start aping conservatives, I'd have been, well... slightly less doubtful but doubtful just the same.

[geardaddy]

25. John Stasshole.

[redqueen]

26. LOL

[Union Scribe]

71. YES!

That's awesome. Plus the "Grope" sig pic is great.

[geardaddy]

89. Thanks.

Are you a NWU member?

[me b zola]

29. On Fridays Thom Hartman does a segment called "weasels of the week"

I think Mike Malloy should do a similar segment called "d-bags of the week"---and I nominate John Stossell to be the first d-bag of the week. Of course though its practically a dead-heat with Limbaugh's comments about the victim of sexual abuse/harassment.

[girl gone mad]

30. Arrogant, paternalistic claptrap.

He claims foreigners would be worse off if we didn't put our factories in their countries, despite all reports to the contrary. Quality of life has deteriorated for most laborers in these countries.

It's the young women and children who are pushed to take sweatshop jobs. This is a segment of the population which would be in school and out playing if the burden of providing for the family hadn't been shifted on to them.

[samsingh]

31. stossel is a dumb idea

and a freakin idiot.
i despise this clown

[OneBlueSky]

38. ya beat me to it . . .

I haven't been able to stomach that guy since, well, forever . . . what a tool! . . .

[samsingh]

73. he's a disgusting twit

[Wind Dancer]

32. Oh brother!

:puke:

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. Geezus

:crazy: :puke:

[MrScorpio]

36. These motherfuckers are evil.

No two ways about it.

[Dawson Leery]

37. Is John Stossel a fascist? He has not once complained about government

giving our tax dollars to corporate interests.

[Zoeisright]

41. John Stossel is a fucking idiot.

And he's creepy. Oh, and cruel too.

[Taverner]

46. Why "John Stossel" is a dumb idea

I can think of literally thousands of reasons

But the mustache is the most compelling reason

[closeupready]

48. Stossel is - and has always been - an idiot. His success is due to his Freddie Mercury resemblance.

Nothing more. K&R

[fascisthunter]

49. Why Bullshit Artist Libertarians are even Dumber

because they assume everyone is a fool but them.

[Major Nikon]

51. Everytime I hear about Stossel it reminds me to go to the youtubes to see that guy slap him silly

I'm thinking that may have been the turning point where he completely lost his capability for abstract thought.

[TNLib]

52. I wonder how many idiots believe this nonsense just because it's on fox

nt

[TheKentuckian]

53. Mr Mustache gets dumber by the second.

[bonzotex]

54. what an asshole...

John Stossel is the quintessential American conservative. He doesn't have the slightest idea what he is talking about.

Mouth-breathing morons are watching him on the TV and nodding, "fuck yeah! ...what he said!" And they vote.

[neverforget]

55. Un-American Asshole.

[ThoughtCriminal]

56. How's that Buy Chinese thing working out for us?

If buying cheap goods manufactured by sweatshop labor is good for the U.S. economy, we should be enjoying unprecedented prosperity. Oh, I guess it has been for a certain group that we're supposed to worship.

[Generic Brad]

57. "Look For the China Label"

I just don't think that's going to catch on in these parts. :patriot:

[Skittles]

81. more than likely such labels would fall off their shoddy products

[Motown_Johnny]

58. Hoover Economics Policies seem to be alive and well

and living inside David R. Henderson

[femrap]

61. Listening to this

idiot Stossel is a dumb idea.

[RedCloud]

62. His goal is substandard wages for us all!

[DireStrike]

64. "The Hoover Institution" is a great establishment for this guy to be at.

His statements just do not make sense, prima facie! It's amazing anyone takes any of that seriously.

[cyglet]

67. Yes, when that was mentioned

it made me LOL.

Stossel is such a right wing hack anyway.

[SnohoDem]

74. +1

My comment would have been about the same - The Hoover Institute? Really? We want guys from the Hoover Institute to advise us how to get through the worst recession since... Hoover was in office?

[Wolf Frankula]

66. John Stasshole costs too much

It would be better for America and Faux Snooze if his job were outsourced. Surely there's somebody in Malaysia who can be an idiot for one tenth of what Stasshole is getting.

Wolf

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. John Stossel on my TV screen is an even worse idea.

:puke:

[calimary]

70. calimary: Why watching john stossel is a dumb idea.

calimary: Why taking his word on anything is a dumb idea.

[defendandprotect]

72. John Stossel is one of the sleaziest sell-outs in media -- disgusting -- !!!

[Umbral]

75. John Stossel is a smarmy-looking liar...

That's what I heard, anyway.

[Romulox]

76. *Some* DUers are on the same page as Stossel.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1678224

[Skittles]

82. it's a safe bet

such "supporters" are benefiting from offshore whoring

[Tsiyu]

77. "The Best of a Bunch of BAD options"

What's really a dumb idea is your defending the bad options, Jonny.

"Let them work in sweatshops" is as callous and indefensible a statement as "Let them eat cake."

Quit while you're ahead...pun intended.

[Skittles]

79. he is a republican offshore whore

[BigBearJohn]

80. I've always hated John Stossel -- he's such a worm /nt

[SOS]

85. Funny stuff

"We should buy things where they're cheapest. That frees up more of our resources to buy other things."

Every tangible good is made in China, from our shoes to the Oakland Bay Bridge.

That frees up our money to purchase American stuff, like mortgage-backed securities, $3,000 CAT scans and
foreclosure lawyer fees.

Long term prospects are lookin' good!

[Hotler]

86. John Stossel is a shit stain. eom.

[Life Long Dem]

90. I like that...

They are not abused compared to going jobless and starving from hunger without a job.

[quaker bill]

95. I am not better off

having a bunch of cheap crap from overseas if my neighbors lose their jobs. Secondly, I am not better off supporting businesses that push hard for lower wages, as I am a wage earner, and sooner or later this sort of thing comes back and bites you in the backside.

This is how they use our money to sell ourselves down the drain, and tell us all the while why we should be "happy" about it.

[AsahinaKimi]

97. This "David R. Henderson, an economist .."

I would question his degree in economics. If he thinks sweatshops are such a good thing, maybe someone should take away his fancy framed paper and make him work a year in China at a factory. I bet he might change his tune... Those sweatshops are not some mythological story made up to frighten little children, they are all too real.

He is not very bright for saying so.. Maybe someone should really check into his credentials.


As for Stossel, maybe he needs another visit from a Pro Wrestler...