Republicans passed the "In God we trust" thing to cement votes from the MDC.

[Fire Walk With Me]

Misguided Devout Christians, who believe that just because Republicans SAY something, that it is true, that they are not using them to gain and hold power.

These are the people who never fail to vote. If enough Democrats stay home again in 2012...

I am interested in revealing to the religious that they are being used by utter hypocrites. I have compassion for them, not in a demeaning way, instead about that they have the right to not be deceived. I'm sick of the republican love of power and lies.

How to unfailingly, compassionately reveal to the devout that they have been manipulated? In a way they can hear, and won't reject?

[Fumesucker]

1. Yep..

It's a wedge issue, nothing more, nothing less.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2223597&mesg_id=2223652

[Fire Walk With Me]

2. Exactly, well-said.

Republicans pay psychologists and spin doctors to think up ways to deceive. How do we begin to uncreate what they've done? We need to create a new way which as Buckminster Fuller says, will obsolete the old.

[Ship of Fools]

4. One way: OWS.

No observable focal point, no observable leader, just LOTS and LOTS of people.
Repubs don't need a focal point, really, and they know it. They're afraid of teh
"masses."

I wish I was young again. Boy howdy would I ever be jumping and screaming right now.

Just a thought.

[Fire Walk With Me]

6. Some church groups are supporting #Occupy for their inclusiveness

and desire to treat all as equal, and to solve the problems facing us...it's a good reminder, thanks, and a good start!

Something good in and of itself will draw both the worst of those who oppose it, and the best of those who naturally gravitate to such.

[Ship of Fools]

8. Yes -- but

I believe there are far MORE churches that are inclusive of OWS than not.
They are a silent majority. If OWS is not about exposing *truth,* then what else WOULD
it be about? And the silent majority, naturally, would agree ...

Simply put, IMO, OWSers' greatest achievement, in the end run, might very well be the simple
act of exposing the Big Lie(S), including the rise of the mega-church and its infiltration
of the political system. Maybe people will find themselves remembering the act of Jesus
in the temple throwing around the tables.

Just a thought.

[Fire Walk With Me]

11. I hadn't considered that the churches and even better, the Church would be part of the clean-up

#Occupy has begun.

[Ship of Fools]

12. Ahhh --

but I find Churche(S) better, in that SOME have become part of the big lie
and some not. It's the some-nots that make inroads, just as the OWS is doing, no?

My brother and I were very tiny, mom was the music director of our Church. She took us along
to Wed. rehearsals. As we grew older, we rebelled (naturally), but we had some
fun -- slithering around on the linoleum under the pews and popping up to make
the choir grin. Dad never went, to mother's chagrin. She argued and pleaded with
him for YEARS before he died, to attend ... He took care of family finances, and
we were always broke. It wasn't until he died that it was discovered WHY we were
broke, and that was because he sent $100 checks to the *Church* once (and sometimes
twice) a month.

The biggest controversy of that little church in upstate NY, EVER, was whether to
paint the interior walls apple green or leave them white.

My point is: Truly active, compassionate people in a truly active, compassionate
community makes a truly active, compassionate church.

I'm no bible thumper (by any stretch). But OWS MIGHT just nip these holy rollers
in the bud, as an unintended consequence.

Just a thought ...

[Jackpine Radical]

3. For starters, I suggest you check out Jim Wallis and Sojourners Magazine.

Wallis is a conservative Christian with a (mostly) liberal political agenda. I believe he opposes abortion, but he doesn't seem to see it as the overwhelming issue.

Here are some quotes:

A billion dollars every week for Iraq, $87 billion for Iraq. We can't get $5 billion for childcare over five years in welfare reform.

But when one believes that you've been appointed by God for a particular mission in history, you have to be very careful about that, how you speak about that. Where is the self-reflection in that? Where is the humility in that?

But when we place God on our side of things, that we are now ridding the world of evil - that's very dangerous, that one nation has this role to rid the world of evil. What about the evil we have committed, that we are complicit in?

Hope unbelieved is always considered nonsense. But hope believed is history in the process of being changed.


I believe in the separation of church and state, absolutely. But I don't believe in the separation of public life from our values, our basic values, and for many of us, our religious values.


I don't think we should discriminate against an organization or congregation because they're religious, if they're doing good work. But government can't subsidize proselytizing or worship or religious activity. It can't.


I think it's a good thing for a president or political leaders to want to put their values or their faith into action. Desmond Tutu did that in South Africa. Martin Luther King Jr. did that here. This is a good thing.

Martin Luther King Jr. really understood the role of the churches when he said, 'The church is not meant to be the master of the state.' We don't sort of take power and grab the levers of government and impose our agenda down people's throats.

No, we are not the master of the state, said King. We are not the servant of the state. We are the conscience of the state. The churches or the religious community should be, I think, the conscience of the state. We're not just service providers.

So when the only domestic social policy is tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthiest Americans, we say, 'Where is faith being put into action here?'

Sometimes it takes a natural disaster to reveal a social disaster.

The great thing about social movements is everybody gets to be a part of them.

The left and right are not religious categories. They're often not even value categories.
Jim Wallis

The media seems to think only abortion and gay marriage are religious issues. Poverty is a moral issue, it's a faith issue, it's a religious issue.

We are prophetic interrogators. Why are so many people hungry? Why are so many people and families in our shelters? Why do we have one of six of our children poor, and one of three of these are children of color? 'Why?' is the prophetic question.

We have got some mountains to move. Three billion people - half of God's children - are living on less than $2 a day.

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. Quite interesting, thank you very much.

Hmmmm..

[Bluenorthwest]

7. Sick of this. Wallis is anti gay, opposed to marriage equality

and yet, you promote him and finish it off with the implication that Wallis is not one of those who opposes human rights for gay people. He does. So I guess if that is acceptable to you, he's a great guy. But it is wrong, just wrong, to use marriage equality to argue in favor of Wallis, as he is opposed to marriage equality just like the rest of the nuts. Wallis gussies up his language for the more affluent set, but he is still an opponent of the rights you imply he supports. Had you not dragged what you call 'gay marriage' into it, I'd have let the Wallis promotion pass without comment, just fyi. One of the reasons 'the media' talks about religion and marriage rights is Jim Wallis types who feign liberality to sell their bigoted atavism.

[Fire Walk With Me]

9. Oh, that's disappointing to learn.

[Jackpine Radical]

13. I didn't exactly drag gay marriage into this,

and I noted that Wallis is only "mostly" liberal. I deplore his positions on some things, but find him to adhere more closely to the principles of Christ than most so-called "conservative Christians."

The one line about gays is a quote from him, not a comment from me.

[lunatica]

10. The American dollar should be our flag.

The confluence of God and Money is more apt than the stars and stripes flag is.

[DavidDvorkin]

14. And spineless Democrats helped them

Including my own representative, Diana DeGette. I wrote to her to complain, but of course I've had no reply other than the automatic canned one thanking me for contacting her.

[louslobbs]

15. If only they'd pass "In Jobs we Trust," then I could get behind it. n/t

Lou