Is America one of the worst police states in the world?

[kentuck]

Seriously.

Not necessarily in the number of people they kill or torture but in the degree of force and intimidation they employ. No nation in the world has as many prisoners as America. No nation in the world can arm as many policemen and national guardsmen with the weaponry that America does.

They don't use the force because they haven't had to use it. America is more or less a docile country, willing to give up much for their security. They seldom question the authority of the police or the state. They follow the rules.

At the same time, we consider ourselves the most free country on earth. But are we?

[msongs]

1. shh! look, over there.....terrorists under every shrub and protest movement nt

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Puzzledtraveller]

3. ditto

[Itchinjim]

4. No.

Seriously.

[Marazinia]

5. No

Because it doesn't have to be to keep the wage slaves in line.

Or not yet, anyway. When it does have to be, then it will be. Or that's my fear.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

6. I don't think police capabilities translate into police-state.

Considering what other 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world countries do to protesters... we are nowhere near the ten worst police states when it comes to incidents where police actually act against the people.

You are right, that our police and national guardsmen have crazy amounts of weaponry and capabilities. I'm not surprised our Law Enforecment is so well armed compared to the rest of the world... jusr look at our civilian armament compared to the rest of the world's civilians. But if, for the most part, the police do not use those weapons against the people then it's not really a police state.

[blindpig]

7. Mebbe not the worst but surely the most effective. n/t

[SteveM]

8. No. Don't confuse the desire for authoritarianism with competence. nt

[Vincardog]

9. The uber rich have decided that the 99% are expendable. The police do not realize that they are the

99% too. They will be rendered when their use is completed.

[Taverner]

10. No. Having been to bona fide police states (Singapore, Cuba)...

Yeah, we're not totally free, but it's hardly a police state

The one thing that lets you know you are in a police state is the absence of crime

[ret5hd]

11. Well then, we have been getting closer to a police state every year since 1994.

[Taverner]

13. Ever since 1980 (and some would say it started in 1963)

[ret5hd]

56. honest question:

i am referring to the drop in crime rate. What are you referring to? The same thing? (i read something recently that said the crime rate has been dropping since 1994)

edit:typo

[Taverner]

64. In the long term, yes they have gone down

But a granular look at the statistics shows that crime went up since the crash

But not as bad as it was in the 80s

[Douglas Carpenter]

12. the U.S. has a far higher percentage of its population in prison than Iran, North Korea or Saudi Ara

In fact the U.S. has about 5% of the world's population - but about 25% of the world's prisoners.

So obviously - in answer to your question - of course the U.S. is a police state - especially when one considers the degree surveillance society that has developed over the years. However, to be fair one might call it a constitutional police state - given that if one were to compare the U.S. to many other countries there still remains - however degenerated- a relatively high standard of legal checks and balances. Not the highest in the world - but still fairly high. So Yes, I think it would be fair to describe the U.S. as a strange combination - that might fairly be called a "Constitutional Police State"

Prison Population and Prisoners per 100,000 People, by Country
Ranked by Highest to Lowest Incarceration Rate (per 100,000 people)

Note the first number you see after the country is that countries total number of prisoners - the Second number you see is the number of prisoners per 100,000 people.

Prison Prisoners Per
Rank Country/Region Population 100,000 People
------- ---------------------------- --------------- ---------------------
1 United States 2,186,230 ---- 738
2 Russia 869,814---- 611
3 St Kitts and Nevis 214--- 547
4 Turkmenistan 22,000--- 489
5 Cuba 55,000--- 487
6 Belize 1,359--- 487
7 Bahamas 1,500--- 462
8 Belarus 41,583--- 426
9 Dominica 289-- 419
10 Barbados 997-- 367
11 Panama 11,649--- 364
12 Ukraine 165,716--- 356
13 Suriname 1,600 --- 356
14 Singapore 15,038 --- 350
15 Botswana 6,259--- 348
16 Maldives 1,125 --- 343
17 Kazakhstan 49,292--- 340
18 South Africa 157,402--- 335
19 Estonia 4,463--- 333
20 St. Vincent/Grenadines 367-- 312
21 Saint_Lucia 503-- 303
22 Trinidad & Tobago 3,851--- 296
23 Latvia 6,676--- 292
24 Kyrgyzstan 15,744--- 292
25 United Arab Emirates 8,927-- 288
26 Georgia 11,731---- 276
27 Mongolia 6,998--- 269
28 Namibia 4,814---- 267
29 Grenada 237--- 265
30 Tunisia 26,000--- 263
31 Thailand 164,443------- 256
32 Swaziland 2,734--- 249
33 Moldova 8,876---- 247
34 Chile 39,916----- 240
35 Lithuania 8,124--- 240
36 Seychelles 193---- 239
37 Poland 87,90----1 230
38 Antigua and Barbuda 176----- 225
39 Azerbaijan 18,259--- 219
40 Iran 147,926--- 214
41 Gabon 2,750---- 212
42 Israel 13,909---- 209
43 Libya 11,790---- 207
44 Mauritius 2,464-- 205
45 Guyana 1,524---- 199
46 Mexico 214,450---- 196
47 Uruguay 6,947---- 193
48 Brazil 361,402---- 191
49 New Zealand 7,620---- 186
50 Czech Republic 18,950---- 185
51 Uzbekistan 48,000---- 184
52 Jamaica 4,913---- 182
53 Costa Rica 7,782---- 181
54 Cape Verde 755---- 178
55 Morocco 54,542---- 175
56 El Salvador 12,176---- 174
57 Hong Kong 11,580----- 168
58 Lebanon 5,971--- 168
59 Luxembourg 768 167
60 Romania 35,429 ---- 164
61 Tajikistan 10,804--- 164
62 Honduras 11,589--- 161
63 Slovakia 8,493--- 158
64 Hungary 15,720---- 156
65 Lesotho 2,924---- 156
66 Bulgaria 11,436----- 148
67 Spain 64,215---- 145
68 Dominican Republic 12,725---- 143
69 Malaysia 35,644---- 141
70 Brunei 529----- 140
71 Argentina 54,472---- 140
72 Zimbabwe 18,033--- 139
73 Colombia 62,216--- 134
74 Saudi Arabia 28,612---- 132
75 Fiji 1,113---- 131
76 Kuwait 3,500---- 130
77 Kenya 47,036---- 130
78 Netherlands 21,013--- 128
79 Algeria 42,000----- 127
80 Australia 25,353---- 126
81 Peru 35,642----- 126
82 Cameroon 20,000--- 125
83 United Kingdom 88,458----- 124
84 Samoa 223---- 123
85 Portugal 12,870---- 121
86 Myanmar 60,000----- 120
87 China 1,548,498--- 118
88 Tonga 128----- 114
89 Sri Lanka 23,613---- 114
90 Tanzania 43,911---- 113
91 Albania 3,491---- 111
92 Philippines 89,639----- 108
93 Canada 34,096------ 107
94 Madagascar 20,294----- 107
95 Austria 8,766----- 105
96 Viet Nam 88,414----- 105
97 Italy 61,721------ 104
98 Jordan 5,589----- 104
99 F.Y.R.O.Macedonia 2,026---- 99
100 Nicaragua 5,610---- 98
101 South Korea 45,882------- 97
102 Germany 78,581----- 95
103 Bahrain 701----- 95
104 Uganda 26,126---- 95
105 Ecuador 12,251----- 93
106 Belgium 9,597----- 91
107 Turkey 65,458----- 91
108 Greece 9,984----- 90
109 Armenia 2,879------ 89
110 Egypt 61,845----- 87
111 Malta 352----- 86
112 Paraguay 5,063--- 86
113 France 52,009---- 85
114 Switzerland 6,111---- 83
115 Bolivia 7,710---- 83
116 Yemen 14,000---- 83
117 Sweden 7,450---- 82
118 Sao Tome & Principe 155---- 82
119 Croatia 3,594------ 81
120 Oman 2,020----- 81
121 Denmark 4,198----- 77
122 Cyprus 580---- 76
123 Finland 3,954----- 75
124 Venezuela 19,853----- 74
125 Ireland 3,080----- 72
126 Laos 4,020------ 69
127 Papua New Guinea 4,056--- 69
128 Norway 3,048----- 66
129 Slovenia 1,301----- 65
130 Vanuatu 138---- 65
131 Togo 3,200----- 65
132 Japan 79,055----- 62
133 Solomon Islands 297----- 62
134 Djibouti 384----- 61
135 Bosnia & Herzegovina 1,526---- 59
136 Syria 10,599------ 58
137 Cambodia 8,160---- 58
138 Guatemala 7,227---- 57
139 Pakistan 89,370---- 57
140 Qatar 465---- 55
141 Ghana 12,736----- 55
142 Senegal 5,360---- 54
143 Bangladesh 71,200----- 50
144 Indonesia 99,946---- 45
145 Haiti 3,670------ 43
146 Timor-Leste 320----- 41
147 Iceland 119----- 40
148 Congo 918----- 38
149 Sudan 12,000------ 36
150 Gambia 450---- 32
151 India 332,112------ 30
152 Comoros 200----- 30
153 Nigeria 40,444----- 30
154 Mauritania 815--- 26
155 Nepal 7,135------ 26

http://www.allcountries.org/ranks/prison_incarceration_rates_of_countries_2007.html

.

[kentuck]

15. We have been programmed to believe certain "truths"...

ie..

We are the greatest country in the world.

We have freedom of speech and the freedom of assembly. (Until you try to actually do it)

We are the hardest working and most productive country in the world. That is why we are the greatest capitalist system that ever existed.

The police are there to protect and serve the people. They are not there to protect the 1% from the other 99%.

We are militarily invincible. No one can defeat us.

We have it better than any other country in the world.

[TheWraith]

14. No. And it's that sort of complete lack of perspective that drives me insane.

Being able to even ask that question shows that one really doesn't have any idea how people in an actual police state LIVE, any more than a corporate CEO has any real idea how his employees live.

Here's a hint. When you're abducted off the street and held without your family knowing where you are or if you're alive for years, just for expressing a political opinion; when protests are met with tank fire; when you live in constant fear that you're going to be singled out for rape, torture, or murder, maybe for belonging to the wrong group or just being in the wrong town; THEN, you live in a police state.

The fact that here in the US you can even ask the question is proof of the answer.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

31. LOL!

Easy money. :rofl:

[TheWraith]

36. I actually understand what a police state is, which apparently puts me ahead of you and the OP. nt

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Posteritatis]

32. It reminds me of people calling Obama's address to schools "the most authoritarian act ever." (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Hmm no, we are a dictablanda

It can easily become a dictadura. But we are far from there. And all those folks protesting are starting to break that slow spin towards one.

You see there are places in the world where OWS is met with actual bullets, torture and a few other things.

[kentuck]

18. True...

We are only met with rubber bullets. At least, for now. The reaction is gauged to the perceived threat, in my opinion. The state violence will worsen as the threat increases. I would not be surprised to see tanks rolling down our streets if the perceived threat was there. They would use real bullets and real military. Protestors can be tolerated, much like free speech, until it threatens the status quo. I hope we never see that but I would not be surprised.

[coalition_unwilling]

44. The government sent the U.S. Army and Marines to Los Angeles to suppress

an urban insurrection as recently as April, 1992 (Rodney King riots). I did not live here at the time, so do not know whether tanks were deployed. But I think TPTB have to consider carefully whether they can rely upon the enlisted ranks to carry out orders blindly or whether the enlisted ranks will demonstrate class solidarity and turn on TPTB. TPTB may have the guns, but we have the numbers. And we are not going away.

[hifiguy]

19. It's an effective police state

because it is "soft" on the surface but rock-hard underneath. I suspect that between 40 and 60%of the country could be jailed for something. And there is no greater crime than publicly speaking up in a group.

[kentuck]

20. Some folks feel threatened by such conversation...

It is not something they care to consider as even possible.

[TheWraith]

37. In the same way scientists are "threatened" by global warming denial.

Disagreeing with something that's patently false and wrongheaded is not "being threatened by the truth."

[kentuck]

38. You seem to think that all police states torture and murder its citizens?

Those are the weak police states.

[TheWraith]

41. I think that you clearly don't understand the definition of a police state.

A "police state" where you can protest, call the government a police state, and vote them out at the next election... isn't one. And calling it so is insulting and marginalizing to people who live in ACTUAL police states, where doing that would get you disappeared.

[kentuck]

42. That is your definition of a "police state"...

I would say that is not an advanced police state. That is a weak, primitive model defined by your lack of understanding or unwillingness to look beyond the propagandized version.

[Uncle Joe]

53. That's exactly the point I was trying to make in replying to this toon

of Orwell vs Huxley posted by NMMNG,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2216123&mesg_id=2216155

[Xithras]

21. Sort of depends on your definition of police state. I know Iranians and Russians.

My Russian friend put it pretty succinctly: America is more SOCIALLY free than other nations, but far less PERSONALLY free.

In the Soviet Union, for example you didn't protest against the government. Or publish unapproved newspapers. Or organize minority parties. The Soviet citizens had few social freedoms. At the same time, they could walk drunk down the sidewalk, set off explosives in their backyard, drive without licenses, and even smoke pot without fear of big brother throwing them into a prison cell (marijuana was formally illegal in the Soviet Union, but the laws were rarely enforced...if you were caught with a baggie of weed, the cop would probably just make you dump it out...they rarely imprisoned people for minor drug offenses.) The citizens in the USSR had a huge amount of personal freedom...far more than that enjoyed by modern Americans. The government really didn't care what they were doing as individuals, so long as they weren't working against the government.

The United States is nearly the exact opposite. We have huge social freedoms, but our personal freedoms are being legislated out of existence. Sure, you can publish a newspaper calling for the overthrow of the government, but walk down the street with three rolled joints in your pocket and you're going to prison.

[kentuck]

23. Well said...

But what good are "social" freedoms if you don't have "personal" freedoms?

For the last several years, Americans have been willing to surrender their freedoms for personal security, as defined by the state. We will X-ray your naked body and we will force you to take off your shoes before you fly on an airplane because once upon a time, one person tried to set off a bomb in his shoe, unsuccessfully. Nobody objected. The state said it was necessary.

The state will tell you what is good for you and what is bad for you. Don't smoke that cigarette inside. Don't even smoke it outside. Ve have our Vays...

[Xithras]

27. It's interesting that you mention the TSA...

...as we were discussing the TSA when he made that statement to me.

One of the more interesting things I've learned from him is the myth of the whole "Papers, Please!" demand, which was mostly propaganda and Hollywood fiction. Normal Soviet citizens did NOT carry ID on a daily basis, and they generally weren't expected to by the government. A police officer demanding ID was actually a rare thing in the U.S.S.R., and generally it only happened when you were being arrested for a crime against the state. A normal patrol officer stopping you for a crime would ask for your name, but they would rarely demand a printed ID, and would almost never search you unless they were about to actually arrest you. The notion that a government agent could simply stop you, demand a government ID, and then search you without warrant was nearly unheard of in Russia.

The Russian "Papers Please" thing had more to do with travel. Generally speaking, Soviet citizens were allowed to travel within their own soviet or oblasts without restriction, and could even travel to neighboring oblasts without any trouble. If a Ukranian wanted to travel to Moscow, however, he would need to first visit the local Party Headquarters and request travel papers. They would ask about your reasons for travel, how long you planned to be gone, etc., but as long as your reason were legitimate, the request would nearly always be approved.

When boarding a train or plane, you simply had to show your papers to demonstrate that you had authorization to travel. You weren't forced to show ID, and you weren't searched, but you did need to have government permission to take long trips. Compare that to the United States, where you can be arrested on a whim for not showing your ID, and where travellers are routinely stopped and searched on the roadside, and are forced to show their ID's and prove their citizenship to escape detainment. Sure, we don't have to ask the governments permission to travel beforehand, but which system is really worse?

[Iggo]

22. No way. Best ever.

[kentuck]

24. I would have to agree with that.

:-)

It's difficult to get people to think anymore.

[Kaleko]

57. Bwahahaha. Great answer!

[kentuck]

25. Some people are so sensitive...

:-)

[TheKentuckian]

26. No, one of the better ones.

Quite effective in avoiding the usual police state reputation and boiling level resistance while maintaining all the powers and accompanying intimidation of the populace as well as a profitable industry of slave like labor and the privatized prisons.

[kentuck]

28. ...

:-)

[Rex]

30. I see you made some posters poo-poo their pants out of fear.

I believe you mean a police state in the contemporary viewpoint and not the traditional way most here on your OP want to fantasize about. 'THX 1138' is an ideal example of a police state...how close are we to that fictional movie?

China is a good example of a police state.

America? Dunno...the story ain't done been finished yet.

[hunter]

33. Here's an experiment anyone who says "no" on this thread can try:

Leave your drivers license and car registration at home. Drive to an affluent suburb, park somewhere at night. Be polite, and don't disturb anyone by parking in front of their house. Then take a nap.

Surely you don't need a motel when you've got a blanket and a nice comfy car seat?

[TheWraith]

34. So you're going to compare car registration to being tortured or murdered for a political opinion?

Seriously: you have absolutely no sense of perspective here.

[hunter]

58. Okay, throw a bag of home grown weed in the glove box...

...it's for your aunt who hasn't been eating because of her chemotherapy.

But even if you have your registration papers, your license, and no drugs, you'll find your experience with the police unpleasant, even if they simply force you to move along. If you are not white, the experience may be especially unpleasant.

And note, I didn't say you were an unlicensed driver or your car was unregistered. You merely didn't have the proper papers on your person.

We pretend that demands for "Papers, please!" are an aspect of other police states, not our own. I used to go jogging or walking at odd hours in cities I visited and the police would sometimes stop me and demand I identify myself. Then they'd hassle me because I wasn't in the habit of carrying identification. When I got married my wife put an end to that. She didn't want me to be without identification if I ever got hit by a car or had a heart attack or something. If I was a dog she'd have stuck an RFID tag in me. But that would be a different thing then if the state demanded an RFID tag.

Police states work because people adapt to them. We internalize the rules, even the rules we oppose, and we don't notice police behaviors that would seem quite draconian and violent to outsiders. Different police states, different rules.

Our high prison population and the racial disproportionalities of that population is prima facie evidence the USA is a police state.

[cyglet]

71. I've had ID, they've still hassled me

They'll hassle anyone who doesn't live there.

I agree, too. Lack of abject brutality doesn't mean it isn't. When I travel, I look at how different countries work....from government to police forces. To me, ours are very harsh in comparison.

[wickerwoman]

61. America may be approaching a police state but it's not one of the worst.

I used to live and work in China. People were getting arrested for owning pictures of the Dalai Lama. Women are still forcibly sterilized. Every few weeks you'd be walking down the street and almost get bowled over by someone running from the cops for running an illegal food stall or having an undocumented kid.

Where I worked, we used to have to send everything we did to get approval from the censorship bureau. At the university, professors aren't allowed to use the photocopier. Every single thing a teacher hands a student has to be approved by a central office.

I once went for a drive to stay in a friend's home village for a few days. Being American, it didn't occur to me to bring my driver's license or any ID. That weekend there was a bombing in the Muslim provinces in the west. As we were driving back into the city, there was a police checkpoint. They were stopping every single car and asking every single person for ID. My friend spent 20 minutes trying to explain why I didn't have any. I managed to play the dumb American and I was very, very lucky that the soldiers finally just let us through. I had another American friend who was arrested for taking a picture of a building not realising it was a police station. Another was arrested for staying in an apartment that wasn't approved for foreigners (he locked himself out and the locksmith ratted on him to the police- he was released after a day but God knows what happened to his Chinese landlord).

And China is a paradise of liberty compared with North Korea or Saudi Arabia or any number of countries in Africa or some of the former Soviet -stans.

I find it just as upsetting as anyone to see police in riot gear beating up peaceful protestors but we have a long, long way to go before we are "one of the worst police states in the world" and that kind of hyperbole just undermines our overall argument.

[kentuck]

62. Thank you for your perspective...

I hope the "hyperbole" can awaken our awareness so that we are not surprised when something terrible does happen.

[sakabatou]

35. No. There are much worse.

[Cali_Democrat]

39. Excellent question

Anytime a country has the highest incarceration rate in the world, questions have to be asked. We have 5% of the world's population yet we hold 25% of the world's prisoners.

Many people in America will disagree and call America the land of the free. They need to open their eyes IMO.

[kentuck]

40. I have my hands over my ears.....I can't hear you...

Doesn't compute... bleep...bleep...

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. By the way read democracy inc

Your answer is in there. No we are not a police state by any classIc deffinition. I forgot to add that.

What we are is a perfected form of dictablanda.

[Rex]

45. Plutocracy at it's finest.

[kentuck]

49. From wikepedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictablanda

<snip>
"Dictablanda" is a word used by political scientists to describe a dictatorship in which civil liberties are allegedly preserved rather than destroyed. The word dictablanda is a portmanteau of the Spanish words dictadura ("dictatorship") and blanda ("soft"). There is an element of punning in the expression, involved in that blanda replaces dura, meaning "hard".

The term was first used in Spain in 1930 when Dámaso Berenguer replaced Miguel Primo de Rivera y Orbaneja as the head of the ruling military junta (or "directorio militar") and attempted to reduce tensions in the country by repealing some of the harsher measures that had been introduced by the latter. It was also used to refer to the latter years of Francisco Franco's regime, and to the hegemonic 70-year rule of the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) in Mexico.

The term "dictablanda" can be usefully contrasted with "democradura", meaning an illiberal democracy — a system in which the government and its leaders are elected, but is nevertheless relatively deficient in civil liberties. One example was the result of the bloodless coup in Pakistan by Pervez Musharaf from October 12, 1999 to January 1, 2004, when Musharraf constitutionally became President of the country by winning 56% of the votes in its Electoral College<1>. Another was produced by the confirmation of Augusto Pinochet as President in the 1980 Chilean national plebiscite.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Oh trust me lived under one

This has things in common, but the words you are looking for are inverted totalitarianism. Democracy inc is plowing that ground.

[kentuck]

55. We are definitely going thru some major changes, nadin...

I think one would have to be blind not to see it. Thanks for your comments. :hi:

[Octafish]

46. It's the best.

Few know it.

[Cal Carpenter]

50. LOL

Good answer

[Cal Carpenter]

47. We have 5% of world's population and almost 25% of world's prisoners

I'd say yes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html?pagewanted=all

It's easy for white middle and upper class people to say it ain't so, but for most poor and/or brown people, it's quite clear.

The attacks on some of the OWS sites are bringing this to light, but it's been like this in poor communities forever.

[Exultant Democracy]

60. Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. This is the beginning and end of the argument.

[sad sally]

51. A question not asked by taxpayers is why do police forces need to be

armed like a military? Yes, there are criminals in the US; however, the biggest criminals (the looters on wall street, banks and so-called investment companies) aren't touched. Apparently, the military weaponry many police forces around the country purchase and use are for subduing us.
#####

The shooting death of Aiyana Mo'Nay Stanley-Jones sounds like it happened in a war zone. But the tragic SWAT team raid took place in Detroit.

Shockingly, paramilitary raids that mirror the tactics of US soldiers in combat are not uncommon in America. According to an investigation carried out by the Huffington Post's Radley Balko, "America has seen a disturbing militarization of its civilian law enforcement over the last 30 years, along with a dramatic and unsettling rise in the use of paramilitary police units for routine police work." In fact, Balko reports that "the most common use of SWAT teams today is to serve narcotics warrants, usually with forced, unannounced entry into the home."

Some 40,000 of these raids take place every year, and "are needlessly subjecting nonviolent drug offenders, bystanders and wrongly targeted civilians to the terror of having their homes invaded while they’re sleeping, usually by teams of heavily armed paramilitary units dressed not as police officers but as soldiers." And as demonstrated by the case of Aiyana Mo'nay Stanley-Jones, these raids have resulted in "dozens of needless deaths and injuries."

How did we allow our law enforcement apparatus to descend into militaristic chaos? Traditionally, the role of civilian police has been to maintain the peace and safety of the community while upholding the civil liberties of residents in their respective jurisdiction. In stark contrast, the military soldier is an agent of war, trained to kill the enemy.

http://www.alternet.org/world/151528/why_do_the_police_have_tanks_the_strange_and_dangerous_militarization_of_the_us_police_force?page=entire?du

[kentuck]

52. Remember this one??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOU5fqRU6Kg

[Nye Bevan]

68. Most UK police are unarmed, and that works fine most of the time.

Of course, when there is a criminal with an actual gun on the loose, they then need to send out for the specialized firearm squads, which takes time, during which more innocent people tend to get shot by the criminal, which kind of sucks.

[Exilednight]

59. I'd put it in the top 20. Obviously, some countries like China and North Korea are much worse, but

I would rank us at the top of the list when it comes to western democracies.

[Matariki]

63. The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world

So while most people would say 'no' to your question - there are places in the world, certainly, where the police are much more corrupt and/or brutal - nonetheless I think it's fair to say we have a police state in terms of people incarcerated.

[Nye Bevan]

65. Just like when DUers solemnly claim that we are "living under fascism",

in a *real* police state we would not be able to debate this question, openly and freely on a discussion board, without any of the site's owners being arrested in the street or getting knocks on their doors late at night.

[kentuck]

66. Once we understand...

that free speech is permitted, up to a certain point. Once it becomes too "free", it will be eliminated. Just as with the written word, so long as a few dozen readers are all that you speak to, then you can write just about anything you want to write. However, if millions start reading your writings, then it is a different story...

[Nye Bevan]

69. So DU will be shut down when it receives more than a certain number of daily views?

I'd better make the most of it in the short time we have left.

[kentuck]

70. We can dream...

I guess? :-)

[hunter]

72. Hooray! Political agitators don't get disappeared in the night!

"Since these things would constitute unparalleled freedoms in many third-world nations, the conclusion is inescapable -- fascism in this country has been vastly overstated!

Back to you, Biff and Wanda!"



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/24/1028379/-Breaking-news!?via=blog_1

[cherokeeprogressive]

67. Nnnnnnnope.