Oakland chief defends officers involved in clash

[ArcticFox]

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — Oakland's police chief on Friday defended officers involved in a clash with anti-Wall Street protesters, saying they used what they believed to be the least amount of force possible to protect themselves.

Interim Chief Howard Jordan said he takes full responsibility for the actions of his officers, whom protesters accused of injuring an Iraq war veteran during the clash Tuesday night. Scott Olsen remained hospitalized in fair condition with a fractured skull after he was struck in the head by an object fired by police, fellow veterans said.



Jordan said he and city staff had reached out to the protesters. He also promised that allegations of misconduct and excessive use of force would be thoroughly scrutinized, saying in a statement that he was "concerned about the injuries to protesters and officers alike; the decision to use any level of force is never taken lightly, and certainly was not in this situation."

Oakland officers did not suffer any serious injuries during the clash Tuesday, just "bangs and bruises from bottles and other objects that were thrown at and on them," said Cynthia Perkins, an assistant to the director at the police department.

============================================

Read the comments. Half of them are joyous the cops beat down this hippie former (questionable) Marine
http://news.yahoo.com/oakland-chief-defends-officers-involved-clash-191443232.html

[fascisthunter]

1. Let them keep Yapping....

[vets74]

61. False tips said the Occupy site had weapons. Similar to Air & Space Museum riot.

That was back on October 8th. Check the occupywallst.org site:

Air and Space Museum --follow up on that Washington DC riot

Bogus tips went in to the Oakland PD claiming that weapons were being hidden there.

Cops went in expecting a small war.

Air and Space was incited by yelling and spitting in officers' faces, plus invading the Museum.

Rightie criminal actions... you betcha. They're crooks.

[pintobean]

72. Do you have a link for these bogus tips

or is this just more of the usual? You're linking to your own story that was debunked here at DU and those threads were locked.

[sabrina 1]

112. If you mean what happened at the Air and Space Museum

the rightwing operatives who were responsible have already been exposed.

I don't think even the cops doubt anymore that it was rightwing morons who were the cause of that. Of course none of them were arrested, so we have to wonder why peaceful protesters are while violent rightwingers can do whatever they want. Raises some very interesting questions that hopefully will be answered.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pintobean]

121. WTF are you talking about?

You make a lot of claims that you won't back up.

[Fire Walk With Me]

119. Did they identify black t-shirt guy?

[sabrina 1]

127. Not that I know of!

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pintobean]

131. That's not Stack

You're the only one who came to that conclusion, once more pics were available.

[TBMASE]

86. There are reports of this at Zucotti park too

[vets74]

120. We set up a liaison protocol at Zuccotti/Liberty. Other sites need this.

We lost the generators in part because there was no follow up with FDNY.

Generators can be caged and there are legal containers for gasoline. Not gallon milk containers and the like.

It's kids.

There's no experience.

---------------------------

The Fire Department problem gets a lower priority than the police interface. I promise we'll get something sensible out this coming week for Occupy sites.

Police chiefs are the experts at sensible policies, procedures, and protocols. They are professional managers.

Thing is, you have to talk to the right people. Use a smatter of sensible language.

NYPD ??? Very good so far -- apart from 3 or 4 looney tunes in the ranks and 1 insane/misogynist D.I.

Today there were a few officers on foot patrol. Maybe twice normal for a corner of WTC site. Down from the original 50 officers and turtle-rigged SWAT in the wings in late September/early October.

[redqueen]

WTF?

Is there any evidence of any rocks or bottles being thrown at police?

[kestrel91316]

12. None whatsoever. Just a bunch of cops lying to protect their jobs.

[TBMASE]

14. From the Lawrence Odonnel show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHlHiNEZ1wA

[ixion]

18. if it had happened, or did happen,

a) it would have been caught on video or in a photograph, given the plethora of media present, and the significance of such an act.

b) If it did, the people who committed the acts are not REALLY associated with the Occupy Movement.

[TBMASE]

23. How do you know it hasn't been?

Anyone who watched the whole Rodney King video got a differrent perspective from those who only saw the few minutes shown on TV over and over again.

I'm not saying it happened but someone who was there is and, unless she's a police plant, you'd have to assume she's being honest in her answers

[ixion]

29. I don't make that assumption. As I said.

The Occupy Movement is distinctly non-violent. And I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a police plant selling their story afterwards.

[TBMASE]

32. Must be why people at Zucotti Park are complaining about the violent

elements in their midst.
The movement as a whole IS non-violent but that doesn't mean EVERYONE is being non-violent.
All it takes is a couple people in the crowd, doing something stupid to get the cops to move on them.

[ixion]

37. ever hear of COINTELPRO?

It was designed to do just what is happening now: Inject instigators into the crowd to muddy the water.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

38. I'm curious, is *every* instance of something

'bad/wrong' being done by an OWS protester a case of COINTELPRO?

[ixion]

41. Of course not. But it needs to be considered.

And given the history of the PTB's complete willingness to implement such tactics, my benefit of the doubt goes to the Occupy Movement.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

43. To me tho it just seems to much like the story of 'the boy who cried wolf'

While I agree that it deserves some consideration it goes against its purpose when every single time I've read about something 'wrong/bad' done by a 'supposed' OWS protestor there is a myriad of people on DU making claims of Cointelpro and agent provocateurs without a smidgen of evidence aside from speculation.

[ixion]

47. The Occupy Movement has stated numerous times that one of it's goals

is peaceful protest. Anyone there to start fights is not part of the movement by definition.

And since the PTB uses tactics like COINTELPRO over and over again, it is not at all the exception, but the rule.

[TBMASE]

59. How nice. Now do they remove them from their presence

so that the rest of the group doesn't get tear gassed because of the actions of a few?

Why aren't they helping the police weed these people out instead of running to the cameras yelling about police brutality?

[ixion]

80. why aren't police doing their job, rather than brutalizing free citizens

who've committed no crime? That IS their job, after all. But I guess it's more fun to get out the tear gas and flashbangs. :eyes:

[TBMASE]

82. In a crowd, are you kidding?

If the OWS people would separate themselves from the violent elements, point them out and help the police it would probably prevent the use of those methods to clear the crowd.
OWS needs to police itself, obey the law and the police who are enforcing it

[ixion]

87. They are assembling peacefully. That IS obeying the law.

However, I agree that they should exile anyone violent.

[Cid_B]

77. That...

... is an excellent example of making up facts to fit your theory instead of the way it is supposed to be...

Also, I think folks around here like to use words like COININTELPRO a bit too much... Makes 'em feel all super spy or something...

[shraby]

74. Were you in this world in the 1960s and later with the anti

Vietnam war protests? That's where the tactic was used and found out about. Make no mistake, if it was effective then, they are using it now.

[ixion]

81. it is used consistently in the anti-war protests

which is why I continue to site it.

[TBMASE]

83. Do you have evidence that it's being used now? REAL evidence?

anytime the anarchists show up there's violence. They are at OWS

[ixion]

90. Yes. It's been documented that RW plants caused trouble at the

Smithsonian.

[TBMASE]

92. 1 guy

now, how do you explain the behavior of the other people?

[ixion]

100. As I said: agitators and instigators

I will not grant you that violence is part of the Occupy Movement. It is contrary to their stated purpose, although you seem to be hoping and praying for them to be violent, which makes you specious, in my opinion.

[TBMASE]

109. When will they expel the violent elements that are in their midst

[ixion]

115. I'm sure they already are

but if someone wants to start a fight, they're going to. People who are there to start fights are not part of the Occupy Movement, as I have said numerous times. They are either a) exploiting the gather; or b) planted there by people who want to discredit the movement. It's just that simple. You can try to obfuscate that fact, or set up the straw men as you've been doing, but that doesn't change the fact that the movement is distinctly non-violent.

I've told you what I think of you, and that opinion hasn't changed. I'm not going to waste any more of my time with you.

[Cid_B]

68. It's also not very smart to assume...

... that everyone who does something you disagree with or isn't in tune with your version of the "message" is a police plant.

[Tsiyu]

70. nor is it very intelligent to assume...

that everyone who is having a hard time financially just hasn't made full use of their allotted bootstraps.

But no one one DU could be that callous and ignorant, could they?

[ixion]

78. it's not 'my' version

it is the stated protocol of the Occupy Movement.

[TBMASE]

84. Then they need to remove the anarchists who turn violent

everywhere they show up. They need to police their movement and remove the people causing trouble

[ixion]

88. actually, they're not anarchists

Anarchy is an educational philosophy that is non-violent.

They are agitators and instigators, but as I said I agree that the movement should point them out and exile them from the community.

Conversely, the same thing should happen to violent cops.

[TBMASE]

93. so it's coincidence that every time the anarchists show up

there's violence.
Whereever the people with the black hoods, and bandanas show up there's violence. Every single time

[ixion]

102. the people you're calling 'anarchists' are actually nihilists

what, are you trying to redefine what anarchy is now, too? :eyes:

[sabrina 1]

113. Does she know who those people were?

Baltimore protesters and early on the NYC protests, people caught police in plain clothes on video, and in Baltimore, they caught four FBI agents attempting to infiltrate the crowd a few days ago.

I've seen reams of film of that night, and not a single bottle anywhere. I did see paint and whoever did that does not belong as a part of this movement until they learn that violence is strictly opposed by the movement. Anyone doing it therefore wants to undermine the movement.

Funny how there is no violence ever until the police show up.

[libertypirate]

94. I saw one egg hit one reporter in the videos.

The police told the news people to move out, and the news copters cut their feed just as the police escalated.

There is no evidence of bottles or rocks. I even re-watched the videos looking for said thrown projectiles on the ground, nothing.

[Scuba]

2. Then he's both an idiot and on the wrong side of history. n/t

[FiveGoodMen]

7. Lots of people are on the wrong side of history and get away with it

He needs to be on the wrong side of an angry mob.

[Lint Head]

3. A uniform, helmet, gun and a badge don't come with a side order of ethics.

The policemen that committed these acts are the very criminals they pretend to keep us safe from.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

4. Has any Chief of police in the history of this country ever admitted fault?

[newspeak]

101. well, the police chief in seattle

quit after the seattle WTO demonstrations. There were many people hurt there, and our mcpravda corporate media-hardly a word.

[ixion]

5. "whom protesters accused" that is incorrect.

An officer DID injure Mr. Olsen. It is not alleged by protesters.

And that whole "bottles and other objects that were thrown" is a complete fabrication. There is no evidence that this act occurred.

[TBMASE]

13. You'd better get the word out to the people talking to Lawrence Odonnel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHlHiNEZ1wA

[ixion]

17. The Occupy Movement is distinctly non-violent

so I'm skeptical that people involved in the movement would do such a thing. As such, I don't really give a hoot who's talking to O'Donnel.

[TBMASE]

20. Well she was there

[ixion]

22. You seem to take glee in this event.

Why is that?

[TBMASE]

24. My wife is a cop. I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt

especially when someone who was in the crowd says people were throwing things at the police

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TBMASE]

33. I'm interested in the facts. While I give the police the benefit of the doubt

it doesn't mean I would support them if they were wrong.
At this point we've gotten one side of the story on video.

[ixion]

35. If there is real evidence produced, that's one thing, but hearsay is not evidence

and I don't give cops the benefit of the doubt because they don't deserve it.

[pintobean]

40. A protester's eye witness report is not hearsay.

[ixion]

44. It is one person's story

which does not make for a conclusive finding.

[pintobean]

46. Other than you, no one has claimed otherwise.

You've claimed it's propaganda and hearsay.

Here's something else to think about; the only video we've seen is that of the protesters. I think there is more video, yet to be seen, and eventually the truth will be known.

[ixion]

48. If there is video, that's another matter

although I still think that the bottle throwers are instigators and agitators rather than protestors. The cops had cameras rolling, as did the protesters, as did the media. If someone produces video evidence, we'll talk about that then.

The primary objective of the Top 3 'news' networks is to support the status quo narrative. Period. As such, they have zero journalistic integrity or credibility.

[pintobean]

50. Have you ever watched The Last Word?

:rofl:

[ixion]

51. No.

:rofl:

[pintobean]

53. We're done here.

[ixion]

55. awesome.

[Selatius]

57. It is hearsay if we used the legal standard of beyond reasonable doubt.

If this were a murder trial, you need something stronger than one witness testimony. You need things like the murder weapon, finger prints, hair and blood samples, motive, intent, or in this case documentary footage showing a bunch of bottles and rocks hurling at the police.

As it stands, the protesters have established that Olsen was shot in the face with a tear gas canister that was fired at head-level, and they have further shown through video that those who came to the aid of Olsen had a second tear gas grenade or possibly a flash bang thrown at them despite the fact that they didn't provoke the second object being thrown except for merely trying to evacuate Olsen from the front line.

Let's see what the police have as far as evidence showing protesters acting with similar disdain in the throwing of objects. Also, a bonus to such a video would be finding out if bottles and rocks were thrown prior to or after the police opened fire. It would answer the question of which side first started flinging objects.

[TBMASE]

60. She confirms what the police have said

df

[Selatius]

63. It's not beyond a reasonable doubt.

It would be like having one witness supporting the prosecutor's case the defendent is plainly guilty of murder and that's all and no murder weapon or evidence linking the defendant to the crime scene. The only credit I'll give the police is that they still have time to produce evidence. They may yet produce a "murder weapon" in the form of documentary footage backing up their claim.

[TBMASE]

97. ohhhh..so there's NO DOUBT the police were unprovoked

but it's reasonable to doubt the eyewitnesses....I see how it works

[SwampG8r]

126. every time i see the police at one of the occupy rallies

they have their own cameras rolling
i will say it out loud
they have the video that supposedly will exonerate them
if they havent shown it its because there is none and they are lying like the filthy pigs they are

[pintobean]

62. You're welcome to question her credibility

but it is not hearsay. Hearsay would be someone retelling another person's account. She claims to have been there and is talking about what she claims to have seen with her own eyes.

[Selatius]

65. Well, the point still stands. One witness, no corroborating footage.

The case is weak if that's all the evidence that is presented, but as I said in my other reply just now, the police are more than welcome to provide footage attesting their claim.

[pintobean]

66. You made a point of telling me I was wrong. I wasn't.

That is all I replied to.

[coalition_unwilling]

76. They (Police) got nothin' and everyone in the world knows it . If they

had it, they would have produced it already for its propaganda value. They got nothin' except slander and libel of our brave heroes.

[ixion]

79. that's my take on it, too

if they had video, it would have already been released.

[TBMASE]

85. When they do, what will your excuse be then?

[coalition_unwilling]

89. Don't you mean 'if'???? Seems to me like you have a personal

ax to grind in this matter, your sister being a cop and all. Before you go off in high dudgeon, you might want to just google the LAPD's 'Ramparts Scandal." I think it will raise the hairs on the back of your neck. Or it should.

[TBMASE]

95. I mean when. Its no doubt being used as evidence in their investigation

[coalition_unwilling]

104. You must be one of the few people left in the civilized world who

can defend the OPD with the phrase "no doubt" and keep a straight face.

[ixion]

91. I doubt they will. But if there was violence, it came from

agitators and plants. The Occupy Movement has stated that it is a non-violent movement, apparently much to your chagrin.

[TBMASE]

96. And yet violence keeps breaking out.

[ixion]

103. which means nothing, except that there are people inciting violence

that are NOT part of the movement.

[TBMASE]

110. is the movement expelling them? No

so they are condoning it

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[newspeak]

99. so, what is the eyewitness' name?

Just curious about who this eyewitness is? I agree, that they would have video of rocks and bottles being thrown--oh and plastic bottles do not count.

During the kent state war protest there was a guy there who the police knew--he attempted to set a building on fire, then influenced the demonstrators to throw rocks at buildings. The cops did absolutely nothing to him.

I do not scoff when someone mentions plants agitating for violence. It is a very effective tool used by the government to discredit and neutralize a movement. Can scoff all you want but it has been used at WTO protests, anti-war protests, environmental protests etc...

[ixion]

105. Exactly...

and this poster seems to be pushing the idea that the Occupy Movement is somehow inherently violent, which is most certainly is not.

[pintobean]

123. I don't know. Did you watch the video?

I've made no claims to her credibility. Your question being addressed to me suggests you didn't follow the thread correctly.

[newspeak]

108. so, a cop hits a disabled woman numerous times

and does it because he says someone tried to hit him with a bottle or rock? Doesn't matter who threw it, I just got to beat on this woman?

All they needed to do is say there was someone who threw something as an excuse. That also means, any teabagger could go to a peaceful demonstration, start throwing things to get the more than willing cops to start shooting. I bet they'd have a blast doing that.

[newspeak]

106. so your wife is a cop

my ex-BIL was a cop, my boss was a LA cop during the watts riots. He told me stories about what some cops did-not him-but he kept his mouth shut. They will lie to protect their own, period. One thing he told me about the watts riot, is that cars were coming into the area (white kids) and firing at officers. My ex-BIL was a legend in his own mind. Had an ego and was very much into the power thing. Thankfully, he was fired from the police force.

[shraby]

75. I believe that was "person" singular, not people, plural.

[Remember Me]

15. He doesn't have a clue how damaging all the extant videos are nt

[RKP5637]

6. So, I wonder what would have been a little excessive force, opening up with

live fire and murdering everyone. It's the same BS over and over again. Use your right to protest in America and you will be mowed down. Democracy exists as long as one does not exercise their rights. Christ, these cops looked like an invasion force in a landing in a hostile country in wartime.

[louslobbs]

8. That's exactly what these cops looked like, an invasion force in a hostile country rather than those

who are paid with tax payer money to "protect and serve." It's a good slogan, but it doesn't exactly play.......protect and serve who?
Lou

[RKP5637]

9. Yep, it reminded me of watching the invasion forces during WWII. Nope, I was

not there, too young, but it sure reminded me of the films back then of live action. Yep, it's pretty clear to me they are paid to protect and serve the 1%, not "we the people."

[hootinholler]

10. I want to see the police video of the incomming bottles and rocks and other bump causing stuff.

The OPD has made the allegations defaming the protestors. They need to produce that evidence, pronto, or apologize.

[TBMASE]

16. Lawrence O'donnel show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHlHiNEZ1wA

[ixion]

19. LOL.. you've posted that link 3 times now

you got nothing.

[TBMASE]

26. Someone who was there says you don't know what you're talking about

now, had you been there, I'd take your word for it

[ixion]

30. If you want to believe propaganda, that's your choice.

I'll pass.

[TBMASE]

34. So the woman who was there is a propagandist

do you know this as fact or are you saying it because you don't like her answer to the question

[ixion]

36. That's what CNN is: An enabler/megaphone for the PTB

and what they produce follows a pre-freamed narrative.

[pintobean]

39. Lawrence O'Donnell is on MSNBC

Look at the header on the video. O'Donnell/MSNBC is not an enabler/megaphone for the PTB.

[ixion]

42. Well, yeah, they are...

Any one of the MSM acts as enabler for the status quo.

[pintobean]

45. So, what's your theory, she a hired actress?

Was she actually on location, or in the studio using green screen? How much of a bonus does Odonnel get paid for a propaganda stunt like this?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pintobean]

52. Your insult is over the line

I just want the truth. You seem to think you already know the truth.

[ixion]

54. My belief is based on past actions and historical evidence

I'm only interested in the Truth, and the Truth, to date, is that the government/ corporate media cannot be trusted to report anything even vaguely resembling the Truth. They 'report' a framed narrative, and never breach those boundaries. As such, they are literally incapable of telling the truth. if you're interested in the truth, you ought to give up the MSM.

And you shouldn't take what I said as an insult. Every time I've encountered you here, you've been a proponent of that status quo narrative, so my statement was a simple statement of fact.

[hootinholler]

21. This can be settled simply

The OPD was rolling cameras. If there were bottles coming in they would have it on video and they would have released it. I do know that apparent paint balloons were thrown earlier in the day.

I have no idea who that girl is, I will admit it's possible, but I have yet to see any bottles flying in any of the video I've seen. Further, the perpetrators should be identified and handed over.

[TBMASE]

27. They probably will release it as part of their findings

There are other reports of things being thrown by the crowd. I'll see if I can find them

[rasputin1952]

125. They'll release the videos after they've scrubbed them...

just because someone wears a badge it does make them inherently honest.

I've seen many instances where civilian videos have not matched up w/police videos, beatings and very rough arrests were scrubbed from many videos and I doubt that the OPD will be completely honest in their investigation. Those who wear a badge tend to protect their own very closely.

BTW, it is well documented that virtually all city PDs will have agent provocateurs in the crowd. It takes only one to create a serious problem. I've identified at least 5, probably 7 at Occupy Boston. I've taken their picture, told them I have done so and all but 2 have left Occupy Boston.

Strategic and tactical errors were made by OPD, they boxed the citizens in, once that happened, it was almost inevitable that something would occur. Here in Boston, the BPD leaves and open end for marchers, we have yet to have a problem during marches. Those that had drugs and alcohol have been gone for quite some time.

Police officers are not angelic, some are great, others are crap, most are adequate at what they do. Just as in every other segment of society, there will be good and bad, seems to me, the OPD should get rid of their crappy officers and train the others to a higher standard.

[sendero]

69. Same here.

.... I'm very skeptical of this claim. Basically, I would not be a bit surprised if they are MAKING IT UP.

[kestrel91316]

11. Oh, yeah, they needed to defend themselves from Scott Olsen, who

was standing there unarmed and unmoving.

EFFING COWARDS.

[Capitalocracy]

25. "officers involved in a clash with anti-Wall Street protesters"

that implies they were fighting against each other. One side attacked the other. There was no "clash with" anyone.

[in_cog_ni_to]

28. A plastic water bottle penetrated the riot gear they were wearing? Really? GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK.

Paint bruised them? Puhleeeze.

[McCamy Taylor]

56. I don't blame the police. They are working class Americans like us. I blame their bosses

who put them out there on the front line and gave them weapons. What did the Oakland government think was going to happen?

[Logical]

114. Bullshit. I know cops. No one has to order them to rough up people. They do it on their own.

[yoyossarian]

58. I always wonder: How the hell is losing the ability to speak "fair condition?"

I hope the Oakland interim chief ends up in "fair condition."

I hope all those "officers of the law" end up being treated "fairly."

As far as all those comments from assholes on yahoo go, don't sweat it. They're all made by less than a dozen young unpaid interns working
overtime for the offices Jerry Falwell or John Boehner or the Koch Bros, dumb kids who are probably very confused as to their own sexual
orientation, or laboring under some other similar personal difficulties, and therefore useful tools to the PTB... the main thing is,
they PRETEND to be legion--but they are, in all probability, just a handful of pathetic idiots... that's what I think.

Money: It can buy ANYTHING but true soul.



K&R!

[vets74]

64. Blame the RIGHT WING PROVOCATEURS who told OPD that there were weapons in play.

Of course the cops went in expecting a small war.

This might have been avoidable. Making contact with the OIC and dealing with false complaints ahead of time ???

Couldn't have hurt.

We need to encourage professional management in the police departments, too.

Good place to start:

policeforum.org

And a solid report on workable policies, procedures, and protocols:

Managing Major Events

Read carefully. 2/3 of this is pure gold for arranging cooperation with police managers.

[EFerrari]

67. Might have been avoidable? Are you effing kidding?

They started raiding a peaceful occupation at 3:30 that morning. Then, even though people remained peaceful ALL DAY, they went back in with 12 OTHER AGENCIES that afternoon and gassed their own citizens for no reason. The videos show no violence directed at the police.

Jordan needs to fucking resign. He instigated a police riot in Oakland. He's lucky nobody died. 58 people that we know of were injured, one of them critically.

[pintobean]

73. Please provide a link for the claim in your subject line.

[vets74]

128. I know this is going to be a shock -- the world does not happen on the Internet.

In fact, almost all of it.

[pintobean]

129. You made the claim here, on the internet

Back it up. How do you know this happened? The incident was on the other side of the continent from you. I'm guessing that if you really have this info, you got it via the internet.
If you just make claims, without evidence, people will assume you're full of shit.
Are you?

[vets74]

132. Uh, no. You idea of how the world works is a skosh too internet-centric.

"The incident was on the other side of the continent from you. I'm guessing that if you really have this info, you got it via the internet."

Gawd, no. Not in terms of open internet web sites.

There are other concepts. Among them: friends, professional associates, the various wires, email groups, the concealed listsrv setups, etc.

The open "googled" internet pages have next to no intersection with professional work. They're good for publishing final results for the public now and then. IDing the creep at the USASM riot 8-OCT-2011 went rather faster. This googled internet has its uses.

[pintobean]

133. You didn't ID the guy

but you have answered my question.

[vets74]

136. Of course we did. If you think otherwise, you're dreaming.

This was anything but a hard problem.

[pintobean]

137. The threads from your 'investigation' were deleted

because they were bs. The woman that took the photos said it wasn't the same guy. No one in those threads agreed with you, but you insisted "we" made a positive ID.

As to your false tip claim; if it happened, there are only two possible sources you could have. So, who are you in contact with, the Oakland Police, or the person who provided the tip? Maybe you're just spreading rumors.

[vets74]

138. You think that DU is the universe ??? Even 1% of it ?

You're funny.

[pintobean]

139. I saw what you posted here. Now that was some funny shit!

Shit being the operative word.

[coalition_unwilling]

71. It's funny how I have yet to see any footage of any

demonstrators throwing anything at all at OPD, other than one demonstrator who throws back a tear-gas cannister that was fired at his group. So WTF is Perkins yapping about? Someone really needs to get in her face in a major way also and demand, since she is acting as a spokesperson, that she provides specifics to support her allegations. Otherwise, she's a liar.

[Douglas Carpenter]

98. I do recall many years ago at many protest demos there would be small splinter groups usually from

some extreme and highly sectarian wing of Maoist, Trotskyist or Anarchist splinter groups that had only a few member who would view the mainstream leadership of any protest as just as much the enemy as the police - It would not be unusual for some of these sorts to try and provoke violence - and refuse to cooperate with any monitors who were trying to keep things peaceful. So I have to consider it completely possible that there were some of these sorts throwing bottles or whatever. But given that there are not any reports of any police injuries and there are no videos of anyone throwing anything - if this did happen - and I think it is possible - it would have been on a very, very small scale and was not the reason for the violent response from the Oakland Police.

[newspeak]

107. that's so funny

under the freedom of information act, information was obtained about the US communist party-the party attempting to induct americans--the party was set up by our government. Kind of reminded me of the movie, Brazil.

[vets74]

134. Police have to be ready for PROVOCATEURS. Also, anybody think there are "Maoists" at these protests?

Even back in the day, provocateurs were a standard feature of anti-leftist schemes going back to the 1930s. Firing a few shots at police was a guaranteed technique for generating bloody riots.

Donald Segretti and his CREEPsters used the technique to make anti-war anti-Nixon protesters look like violence prone fanatics.

The Air and Space Museum riot recreated this approach. The largely pacifist and anti-war protest was made to look like an attack on the museum guards. Violence ensued. Ambulances were called for the MACEd and trampled victims. That was a perfect day for the rightie propaganda machine.

A couple guys with bags of water bottles -- less "invasive" than 1930s company-shill anti-union gunmen.

Same idea.

We have to warn the police management teams about what's in play. They are quite good at these problems once they have the info.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

111. "Just following orders" is sooo 1940's.

[Fire Walk With Me]

118. "Protect themselves"?! Jordan, you resign!

[lunatica]

122. Yeah. We all saw how much danger the police were in

:sarcasm:

[U4ikLefty]

124. Take note of those who are friends of the Occupy movement AND those who

are "concerned" about the Occupy movement.

[vets74]

135. "Concerned" = the whole of our corporate-owned press. MSNBC had a reporter "embedded" at OWS NYC

yesterday.

And John Oliver showed up for a nifty and brief walk through a few weeks ago.

You're not going to see the central/obvious messaging. These things:



or



OWS is a protest against crime. To start with the $2-trillion in mortgage crime. The $5-trillion in "AAA" bribe-bond pension-theft crime. The whole crime of corporate purchase of our democracy.

It's anti-crime. 100%.