Armed vs. Unarmed...

[one_voice]

[socialist_n_TN]

1. Welcome to the world of fighting the system

rather than fighting the "gubmint".

[leveymg]

2. .

[hwmnbn]

3. K&R

[Brickbat]

4. One answer seems obvious.

I think it would get the thread locked, however.

[Renew Deal]

5. Teabaggers are not a threat to the system.

They are tools of it.

[fascisthunter]

19. exactly

[meow2u3]

32. Teabaggers are a threat to the country

Occupiers are a threat to the banksters.

[Lance_Boyle]

6. What would non-weaponized tear gas be?

Is that tear gas for recreational use?

[Bigmack]

7. Extra strength.... I think they grade it "Hippie"... nt

[Drew Richards]

34. I am going to take this as a serious question so here is your answer...

Non-weaponized tear gas is derived from pepper or peppers and is considered civilian use tear gas or for personnel use called Mace.

What we used in the service was CS gas 10 grains of that shit blowing in the wind in your face would put you down for a couple hours.

CS is O-Chlorobenzylidene malononitrile , CS Powder

Both are irritants to the mucous membranes of the eyes nose mouth but Pepper sprays can actually be neutralized with handy wipes, water and baking soda...


CS powder cannot be neutralized and is really vicious stuff and can cause severe respiratory arrest, permanent blindness and permanent loss of skin sensitivity and smell...oh and death...

By the way in the 70's they used CS on us in 70,71,72 ect at the washington protests...

CS is deemed lethal and is not allowed anymore for civilian use...well at least until NYPD just doesn't give a fuck anymore that is...Then I imagine they will break it out with glee...

[Shagbark Hickory]

8. So why don't they get armed?

Seems like that would get attention and scare away the cops.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

9. ?

may I invite you to the Gun Forum to post that question. . .

:hi:

[Shagbark Hickory]

11. I'm not pro gun.

I'm very anti-gun in fact.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. ?

of course you are. anti-gun people post in the Gun Forum.

I thought you asked a good question worthy of more discussion.

sorry, if I offended as it was not my intention.

[Shagbark Hickory]

22. ?

Not only am I anti-gun, I'm anti-gun-forum-at-du.

As for the topic at hand, I am somewhat curious what the response would be if the protesters seemed angrier. Maybe it would be harmful- maybe they'd have been kicked out of their various locations much sooner or maybe they wouldn't have gotten the support of other countries. Maybe it would have turned into violence and bloodshed.

But OTOH, the crowd is missing that 'we are crazy so take us serious' element.

I know guns aren't allowed in NYC but other places they are. Seems like it would help grow attendance if people got to bring their guns and maybe the cops would think twice before beating the crap out of people.

[jmg257]

23. I thnk there is a world of difference between a few armed clowns sitting on a bench

'out in the country', and 1000s of people packed together in a city 'like NY', even if legal to be armed.

It would certainly grow attention because suddenly the protests wouldn't be boring.

Many of those protesting seem to fear guns on sight, others having them would not go over too well.
I don't think cops that are pretty much directing(controlling) pedestrian traffic would be nearly as passive as they are if a large section of those pedestrians were armed - I know I wouldn't....I'd be REAL jumpy. And God forbid ANY confrontation takes place - people will die (even if the protestors' guns are unloaded).

[Shagbark Hickory]

24. "democracy is messy" as they say. n/t

[jmg257]

25. Not sure about democracy, but revolutions usually are (successful or otherwise). nt

[spin]

17. It is actually a good guestion for the gun forum ...

and would provoke a lot of discussion from both sides of the issue.

Some posters avoid the "gungeon" as it sometimes is the Wild West of DU.

[Shagbark Hickory]

21. That's why I avoid it.

[spin]

30. I totally understand. (n/t)

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. And the lesson is, if you don't want to be harrassed and arrested

bring weapons to your rally.

Right?

[reggie the dog]

12. we should bring guns to our rallies

imagine the faces of the cops in cannes if the anarchists all came up carrying hunting rifles!!!

[Enthusiast]

40. Agents provocateurs would fire shots

at the cops which would result in a wholesale gun fight. Guess what the media would say. The OWS movement would be over.

At Tea Party rallies there was no massed police force to receive gun fire. What a contrast.

[nc4bo]

13. Thanks, someone on FB asked for a bigger version.

Right on time!! :patriot:

[gratuitous]

14. They like victims who aren't liable to shoot back?

Or one group is perceived as a threat to the folks holding the police's leash, and one isn't?

[ileus]

15. arms are for hugging.

[fascisthunter]

18. sorry... I do not believe the two are treated the same, armed or unarmed

and I would also think that arming OWS would be a big mistake and counter our message of PEACE.

[coalition_unwilling]

20. When OWS started, I supported the cops as members of the

working class and fellow 99%ers. My position has evolved as my support for the cops has eroded. I now see them as class traitors and enemies of the people. Do they really want the broad masses to share this view?

[sufrommich]

28. You know, when you use terms like "class traitors"

and "enemies of the people" you lose a lot of people who would have been on your side . I'm sorry, but terms like that bring up images of mob justice.

[coalition_unwilling]

31. I'm not sure how you explain the cops' behavior then. "A few

bad apples" is a trope that exhausted itself in the Mesopotamian Desert (Abu Ghraib).

[Glassunion]

26. Well, they are both protesting non-violently. I'm gonna agree with Gandhi on this one.

I believe in Non-Violence not pacifism.

I also believe that non violence is far more effective when practiced by those who have the strength and the ability to become very violent, but choose not to.

"Man for man, the strength of non-violence is in exact proportion to the ability, not the will, of the non-violent person to inflict violence." - Gandhi

A strong person acting non-violently has a far greater impact than an impotent one. 10 non-violent people protesting has little impact. 10 potentially violent people, being non-violent while protesting has a greater impact.

[JuniperLea]

33. I have to disagree...

Carrying a weapon cannot be construed as non-violent by any stretch. Carrying a weapon is a violent act waiting to happen... carrying a weapon shows you are not above violence and are perfectly willing to be violent and are in fact prepared to be violent.

[Glassunion]

35. So we disagree.

IMHO carrying a weapon itself not a violent act. Using one is.

I will agree that carrying one, an individual has the capacity for violence, but that does not make them violent. There is a huge difference between having the capacity for violence and being willing to bring violence.

Would you consider striking police officers on a picket line, in full uniform as a violent protest?

[JuniperLea]

37. Guns are for violence, period.

Carrying a weapon is a violent act. When I see or hear tell of a weapon being carried within city limits, I cringe at the prospect of violence... it's a visceral reaction to potential violence, and that's good enough for me. Even cops who are fully trained get it wrong sometimes. No one is perfectly trained for weaponry except perhaps military and police SWAT and sharp shooters, and even they can get it wrong.

I'm not sure I understand your question.

Striking ANYONE is violence. Passive resistance is the only way.

One of my oldest friends was murdered by a flack jacket wearing, gun toting TeaBagger last week... I was raised in a gun family and I'm a better shot than 99% of the people I've ever been out shooting with... and I don't ever want to see another motherfucking gun inside city limits again in my life.

[Glassunion]

39. I did word my question quite poorly. Let me clarify.

If the police union goes on strike and the police officers are protesting on a picket line, in full uniform. Would you see this as a violent protest?

Sorry about the confusion. My bad.

[sufrommich]

27. TO be fair, one quick look at the pictures and you can see

one group couldn't outrun a cop in the best of circumstances.:evilgrin:

[Fire Walk With Me]

29. K&R!

[Ezlivin]

36. Even the biggest Tea Party event didn't scare police

They are not afraid of milling crowds of elderly people who seem confused and lost.

[demmiblue]

38. K&R