Teach for America....its "Savior" syndrome is harming public education.

[madfloridian]

It's been extremely harmful to the teaching profession to have a group of new graduates with 5 weeks training present themselves to the world as the great hope to save students from regular teachers. It has angered and frustrated teachers, and it makes TFAers seem to be what they are not.

In fact Ohio Governor Kasich actually said it this way.

"They're going to ride on white horses with white hats into our schools and be able to interject a tremendous amount of enthusiasm, talent, capability and real-world understanding."

What a horrible slam to real teachers who have built careers on caring for children.

This blogger said it quite well.

When Will Teach for America Teachers Shake the "Savior" Stereotype?

Here's one image problem that Teach For America can't seem to shake: TFA teachers as saviors. The stereotype of their teachers (called corps members) as the great hope coming to save poor students of color from lazy, regular teachers reared it's head again on Wednesday thanks to statements by Ohio governor John Kasich.

Kasich signed a bill that will allow TFA corps members to be hired by school districts in the state starting with the 2012-2013 school year. He called the bill a "landmark day for Ohio education" and clarified that allowing corps members to come to Ohio isn't an attempt to replace current classroom teachers. You may not agree with Kasich's point of view, but that's pretty benign as far as statements go. However, things went south when Kasich then referred to corps members as "the cavalry", saying

"They're going to ride on white horses with white hats into our schools and be able to interject a tremendous amount of enthusiasm, talent, capability and real-world understanding."

Kasich calling corps members the cavalry implies that there's a war going on in our schools and TFA corps members are the soldiers coming in to restore order.

That's pretty pathetic.

This next writer points out the giant leaps that TFA makes that make no sense.

The Downside To Teach For America

He tells how he was listening to a TFA presentation which did a good job of showing the problems in schools today. Then he points out they made two huge assumptions that had no basis.

But from that relatively nuanced sketch of what they themselves admit to be an incredibly complex and interconnected set of problems, they made a jump I couldn’t rationally follow—that getting inexperienced kids from prestigious colleges into these low-income schools will make the system better.

Two Huge Assumptions

Such a leap makes two huge assumptions, which I will deal with one at a time. First, it takes for granted that the biggest obstacle keeping low-income students from getting the education they deserve is the poor quality of their teachers. And second, it accepts as truth that students from elite colleges will somehow make better teachers, regardless of their lack of experience and knowledge in the field of education.

The first assumption was particularly jarring to me in the context of the information session’s promising opening. How could these people earnestly describe the structural violence of poverty and the complex challenges under-resourced schools face, but then return to TFA’s foundational position of, “No, actually the only thing that matters in a school is the individual teacher, and the teachers in low-income communities suck”?

Rachel Levy of All Things Education points out that the TFA founder, Wendy Kopp, is puzzled that teachers are considered to need proper training and experience. It's quite an insulting comparison to other professionals.

Teach For America: From Service Group to Industry

As many national journalists, including New York Times columnists Thomas Friedman and Nicholas Kristof, bemoan the state of our education system, they cite countries with highly rated education systems such as Finland and Singapore that recruit their teachers from the highest ranks of college graduates, while the Unites States doesn’t. What these journalists miss, though, is that Finland’s rigorous education and internship program for teacher candidates go far beyond TFA’s five-week training sessions. Most of these other countries have highly-professionalized teaching forces; TFA, however, de-professionalizes teaching by emphasizing talent over training. While Wendy Kopp and her supporters are in favor of increasing the numbers in teaching of graduates of more selective colleges, they are opposed to making teacher education and training more rigorous. Kopp says in her memoir, for example, that she is “baffled” that teachers are required to have professional training as doctors and lawyers are; teacher quality is a matter of talent and leadership. Selective colleges select talent, but due to admissions criteria biased towards students in wealthy school districts, they often perpetuate class privilege. To me, the idea that a person would inherently be a better teacher due to their privileged position in society smacks of elitism.

The TFA replacement of experienced good teachers does reek of elitism. Many of them do believe as Kasich said...that they ride white horses and wear white hats.

They do not, and there is great harm being done by this movement. It is intended to deprofessionalize teaching and turn it into a cheaper temporary job.

Where is the Democratic party speaking out on this? Nowhere. They are among the biggest supporters of this demoralization of experienced devoted teachers who care about their students.

[polly7]

1. 5 weeks training and they're replacing teachers?

How could this ever be seen as a good thing, by anyone?

[madfloridian]

3. It is being applauded by both parties now. And Arne supports TFA.

So what can I say? I have no answer as to why this is good. :shrug:

[polly7]

42. I don't want to offend anyone and apologize if it seems I am, but we

took more than 5 weeks, I believe, for our 4-H babysitting course.

It's amazing to me that 5 weeks and an internet connection would make anyone qualified to take over the job of real teachers with years of studying, knowledge and passion for teaching.

[Owl]

82. There is no answer as to why this is good.... because it isn't good.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. It's a cheap thing

They can hire two TFAs for what they pay one experienced veteran teacher.

It's really all about the money.

[BobbyBoring]

55. Exactamundo

TFA is just another scam. It's purpose is to replace tenured teachers with underpaid kids. When the new kids fail in their attempt, the public school system will be scrapped.

[no_hypocrisy]

88. 4 years of liberal arts, 2 years graduate degree in elementary education,

4 foreign languages, and I'm overqualified to teach.

No white hat for me . . .

[wordpix]

89. it's cheaper to hire college grads than pay teachers for their experience

that's how :grr:

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. Nice White Lady Saves Us All

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVF-nirSq5s

:rofl:

[saras]

81. No one thinks that video funnier than my stepdaughter, who IS a nice white lady working in Oakland

Not TFA, she got there the hard way. She teaches middle-school math, and likes it. Of course, when she was a teenage babysitter, she'd teach the babies to ask for tattoos...

A lot of the purpose of TFA is to convey to the STUDENTS that the things they value about good teachers are not valued nor respected by the powers that be in our society, hoping the students will choose power and influence over humanity and maturity.

[quitnesset]

4. a bad idea from Apple

Former Apple CEO Steve Jobs’ wife, Laurene Powell, is one of the Teach for America board of directors, and supports this nonsense by starting an Apple program to donate old iPads to TFA teachers

[madfloridian]

5. Apple donated 9000 iPads to TFA teachers.

When people got upset, they played down their efforts, even took some of it off their website...but they still gave iPads only to TFAers not public school teachers.

And welcome to DU. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. In our district those iPads are able to access the school wifi

It's against district policy to bring your own computer or iPad or laptop from home and log in to the wifi system. They have it locked down tight to prevent us from doing this. But the TFA's iPads they were gifted are configured to get on the school wifi.

It's so insulting.

[madfloridian]

43. That IS insulting. I agree 100%.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

6. More actual data on TFA effectiveness.

http://www.golocalprov.com/news/aaron-regunberg-the-downside-to-teach-for-america/

"Actual Data Tells Another Story

Of course, this would all be fine if TFA teachers were actually making our schools better places, as TFA supporters claim. At the info session, certainly, the recruiters mentioned a number of specific TFA grads that allegedly were able to improve their students’ test scores in miraculous ways. But the actual data tells another story, as I discovered upon reading a recent study out of the Education Policy Research Unit at Arizona University and the Education and the Public Interest Center at the University of Colorado, which reviewed all of the studies done on the effects of Teach For America from its founding through 2010. It is, as far as I can tell, the most comprehensive work currently available on this topic. Unfortunately, it has a number of troubling conclusions.

First, it found that—despite a number of non-peer reviewed studies by TFA claiming otherwise—TFA teachers initially do about the same or worse than first-year teachers who are traditionally certified, and only after two or three years do they seem comparable to more experienced teachers. But at that point, most TFAers are moving on; a review of the research on TFA attrition rates found that 50% of TFA teachers leave the profession after their contracted two years, and 80% leave after three. In other words, since they aren’t staying long enough for their students to benefit from their gained experience, TFA isn’t ultimately leading to higher teacher quality.

But that’s not all the data revealed. While TFA’s public relations teams claim that they are filling a real gap by providing teachers to the most difficult, hard-to-staff districts, the research shows that TFA has begun placing its teachers not in schools lacking qualified candidates, but in slots previously held by veteran teachers who were laid off to make room. Meaning that somewhere there may be a classroom full of students who have been forced to trade their qualified, experienced teacher for some random Brown kid just out of college who has never before stepped foot in a public school (I am, of course, making generalizations; there are many TFA teachers who don’t fit this description at all, but there are many more who do). Worst of all, we’ve had to pay good money to make this trade. The study found that TFA often charges districts significant finders fees for each recruit, while an even heavier cost comes from the professional development and mentoring that school departments are forced to invest in teachers who will be gone in a few years."

[ellisonz]

98. Retention is a problem for credentialed teachers too.

Leaving So Soon?

Every year, U.S. schools hire more than 200,000 new teachers for that first day of class. By the time summer rolls around, at least 22,000 have quit. Even those who make it beyond the trying first year aren't likely to stay long: about 30 percent of new teachers flee the profession after just three years, and more than 45 percent leave after five (see charts, below).

What's more, 37 percent of the education workforce is over fifty and considering retirement, according to the National Education Association. Suddenly, you've got a double whammy: tens of thousand of new teachers leaving the profession because they can't take it anymore, and as many or more retiring.

When teachers drop out, everyone pays. Each teacher who leaves costs a district $11,000 to replace, not including indirect costs related to schools' lost investment in professional development, curriculum, and school-specific knowledge. At least 15 percent of K-12 teachers either switch schools or leave the profession every year, so the cost to school districts nationwide is staggering -- an estimated $5.8 billion.

Students from the lowest-income families suffer the most. Inexperienced teachers (those with less than three years on the job) frequently land in classrooms with the neediest and often the most challenging students. Beginning teachers frequently start their careers at hard-to-staff schools where resources may be scarce -- in other words, urban schools -- simply because there are more jobs available there.

http://www.edutopia.org/new-teacher-burnout-retention

[KamaAina]

7. So much for teaching as a career.

Ask yourself what you'll do when your daughter's teacher finally gets that callback from Starbucks and she's stuck with a sub the rest of the year.

[madfloridian]

8. Yep, the goal of TFA and other reformers is to make teachers cheaper.

To end it as a career. They are doing a good job, and most people don't care since teachers have effectively been demonized for years.

[ellisonz]

11. TFA pays the same wage as a starting teacher's salary.

Salary and Health Benefits
Corps Members receive a full salary and comprehensive benefits.

As a corps member, you will be a full-time, salaried employee of your school district and receive the same salary and benefits as other beginning teachers in that district.

http://www.teachforamerica.org/why-teach-for-america/compensation-and-benefits/salary-and-health-benefits/

At least it's employing young people interested in teaching as a profession...which is huge when we're being shut out of large segments of the economy.

[madfloridian]

12. They are replacing long time teachers who need those jobs.

And the district must pay a fee for recruiting them, usually 3 or 4 thousand dollars. Local teachers are begging to be recruited for free.

There is no excuse for laying off tenured teachers to hire TFA, and yes they are doing that.

[ellisonz]

16. Cuts are being made anyways.

I'd blame an economy that doesn't place value on education first.

[madfloridian]

18. I blame a private group that disses teachers and takes their jobs.

There is no way in hell to defend this.

[ellisonz]

21. You don't like the program. I get it. I think we ought to invest more in education in general.

But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[madfloridian]

25. Don't throw out experience tenured teacher for Wendy Kopp's "corps"

How did she get so much power?

[ellisonz]

28. Blame Republicans.

[madfloridian]

29. No, not just Republicans. Obama is pushing Bush's policies through...

because Bush couldn't. We fought him on it.

As Eli Broad said when Arne was appointed.."the stars are aligned."

[ellisonz]

34. I'm for sacking Arne.

I'm also for opportunity for young people.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/09/rough-times-for-young-adults-in-americas.html

[madfloridian]

37. I want young people to have opportunities. Just not on the backs of good teachers.

That is what these TFAers often do...they are brought in to replace tenured teachers. Over and over.

[ellisonz]

70. See we agree. Our enemy is the same...

...those who would gut public education to save a buck.

[Occulus]

94. Then you're for scrapping TFA, right?

You'd have to be, to be logically consistent.

[ellisonz]

97. I'm scrapping for both TFA and for a better unionized public education system.

TFA was intended to be adjunct. Little more than a decade ago we had a shortage of teachers to meet our goals. Compared to the 1990s - the issue of public education has taken a backseat on the political bus. Consider:

Clinton to Release Funds for Teachers
Published: June 27, 1999

WASHINGTON, June 26— President Clinton announced today the release of $1.2 billion to help local school districts hire 30,000 teachers as part of a plan to reduce the size of classes in early grades.

Linking class size to improved learning and discipline, Mr. Clinton said in his weekly radio address that the Department of Education would begin distributing the money next week to help districts hire teachers for first, second and third grades.

''Reducing class size is one of the most important investments we can make in our children's future,'' he said. ''Recent research confirms what parents have always known: children learn better in small classes with good teachers.''

The Administration has been advocating reducing class size in early grades to no more than 18 pupils, but Mr. Clinton lamented that ''in far too many of our schools, 30 or more students are pressed desk to desk in a single classroom.''

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/27/us/clinton-to-release-funds-for-teachers.html?ref=billclinton

I think we should make a national goal of reducing K-8 education to no more than 20 students in a classroom.

This requires more teachers and compared to the emergency credentialing programs of the 1990s - TFA is competent and organized compared to those programs.

The National Education Association (NEA) states that the optimal classroom size is 15 students. This is for regular programs of teaching; for specialized programs such as those for students with exceptional needs, the classroom sizes should be smaller.

Few classrooms in any school meet this guideline. Budgeting simply does not allow for enough schools and enough teachers to be able to make classrooms of this size. Many schools consider themselves lucky if they are able to keep classroom sizes under 25 or 30 students.

Classroom size is important because if a teacher has too many students in her classroom, she is not able to give each student much one-on-one time. Teachers with smaller class sizes are capable of giving students more individual attention which, in turn, helps these students to better succeed in school.

Smaller classes are also better because of issues of safety and discipline. It is much easier for a teacher to keep order in a classroom with, say, 15 students than it is to keep order in a classroom with 35 students.

http://www.newyorkschools.com/articles/how-classroom-size-affects-learnings.html

[sabrina 1]

107. All teachers start out as young people. Why not properly train them

rather than give them a five week training course? What about the young students who are the victims of such policies? Other countries are hiring young people to teach, but when they are qualified to do so. What happens when these inexperienced teachers, after a few years, realize that if they demand more money, they too will be replaced?

I am mostly concerned about the young students. Other countries send their young people who want to be teachers to school to get proper training. In some countries part of that training includes working in a classroom with an experienced teacher, first just as observers, gradually being allowed to participate more under the supervision of experienced teachers. By the time they graduate, they are far more prepared and far more qualified to teach and as a result, the students are provided with a real education.

This is a failed system. And it's no wonder the US lags so far behind other developed nations in so many areas.

This is about money. Cheaper labor means more profits, but it is in no way based on the needs of the young students.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

13. Then the TFA ers get laid off, and more of them are hired....

costing the district more in recruiting and depriving the students of experience, knowledgeable teachers.

It's insane.

[theaocp]

14. Fail.

These "teachers" aren't interested in teaching as a profession. Get it-get it for 2-3 years and they're out.

[ellisonz]

15. Then what are young people supposed to do?

It's not like there's that much opportunity right now.

Hate the game, not the players.

[madfloridian]

19. Oh, my...so the young people shove out the older people? You think so?

You really believe that?

What kind of philosophy is that?

[ellisonz]

22. That's not what I said.

I said the program has value.

We need a better educational system, period. We can both agree on that.

[MH1]

44. What I don't understand

is why TFA'ers are used to REPLACE experienced teachers.

I would expect someone with that experience profile (i.e., 0 - 3 years) to be used as augmentation.

But I will freely admit that I don't know shit about education except that I got a damn fine one from public schools a long time ago. I don't know why, when some school districts certainly knew how to teach math, reading, and writing back then, that this many years later it's still a problem.

But anyway I would think TFA could be a useful concept IF it was used as an adjunct to experienced staff. I agree that inexperienced teachers shouldn't be taking over classrooms. But I like the idea of giving bright young people interested in education a shot at working in the system, in an appropriate and useful capacity.

[madfloridian]

46. They are replacing experienced teachers because they have the power.

The power is theirs because TFA gets huge money from the billionaires. They get the good press, they get favorable comments from our president and his Secretary of Education.

They were not supposed to be replacing longtime teachers, but things have been allowed to get out of control under Arne's reign.

I notice that a couple of you are turning this into a "bright young people" argument. That's really an obvious tactic, you know.

I am writing about long term experienced tenured teachers losing their jobs to those "bright young people"...

I will not excuse those tactics.

[ellisonz]

63. Then why not fight the people who have been underfunding our schools for the last...

...two generations. Do you really think those in Teach for America are only interested in taking jobs away? The problem is that there's not enough opportunity being passed around. More taxation and re-allocation for more teachers and better schools. Absolutely.

[ellisonz]

69. Thank you!

That's not the intent of the program. It's politicians forcing district administrators to make a Sophie's choice. There's nothing drastically wrong with the program itself.

We need to invest more in education across the boards. It should never be a "Dangerous Minds" type school system in any part of this country.

[chervilant]

105. Of course!

Five weeks of 'training' and an earbud is MUCH better than an education degree, or a three-year accelerated program!

Gosh, our students must be tickled pink to have such well-prepared teachers!

[theaocp]

20. Um, go to college and become a teacher, like me?

Their little foray into education so they can help the little people is disgusting and your support for it sounds like you're for illegal workers, just so you have cheaper produce. WTF? I understand TFA is to blame for this, as are those who hire illegal workers, but they are still making the situation worse. I'm in it for the long haul, not so some kid from an elite college can play teacher for a few years.

[ellisonz]

23. Remember emergency credentialing?

That was far and away worse. I get you point. We can respectfully disagree. I have many friends who participated in Teach for America. I don't dis-value their contributions.

[madfloridian]

24. I have many friends who were experienced tenured teachers.

I value their love and devotion to children.

Why in the world would we need emergency credentialing when teachers are waiting in droves to be hired.

I can not see how anyone can defend taking the jobs of long time teachers.

[ellisonz]

27. I'm not. I'm defending young people wanting to serve their communities.

Americorps had major budget cuts last year. You don't realize how hard it is for us to get any job in public service outside of the military right now.

We just want opportunity - any opportunity.

[madfloridian]

32. So do mature and experienced teachers. They had major cuts as well.

TFA has turned into something it was not intended to be, and I will continue to point it out.

This is the dismantling of public schools and the teachers who teach in them.

[ellisonz]

35. Exactly. Something it was not intended to be...

[roody]

30. Emergency credentials reflect a shortage. You can get an

emergency special ed one in California.

[ellisonz]

65. I had several teachers in high school during the first half of the last decade...

...there used to be a shortage in California - I can personally speak to that.

[Owl]

83. Well said. +1

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. Well forgive me for not being willing to give them MY job.

Good grief.

[ellisonz]

64. Absolutely.

But forgive me for standing up for a program that I think has value.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. And I know for a fact it has no value for our children

I've worked with about a dozen TFAs. 99% of them have been absolutely horrible teachers, in way over their heads, doing work for which they are inadequately prepared. I believe our children deserve well trained, dedicated and PROFESSIONAL educators, not Peace Corps volunteers.

The only value in this program is in the monetary savings to school districts. But the damage being done to our students is much more costly.

[ellisonz]

75. That may have been your experience....

Then up the training! I think we could both agree that teachers in the classroom receive inadequate support.

2. The research is mixed about whether TFA teachers are effective in the classroom. Pretty much every article about TFA states the boilerplate assertion that the research about its effectiveness is "mixed" or "inconclusive." Actually, that's only true if you think the best way to consume research is to literally pile all the different studies up and see which pile is higher. Again and again, the most rigorous studies show that TFA's selection process and boot-camp training produce teachers who are as good, and sometimes better, than non-TFA teachers, including those who have been trained in traditional education schools and those who have been teaching for decades. "The weight of the evidence suggests that TFA teachers as a whole are at least as effective as other teachers in the schools they end up in," says University of Washington economist Dan Goldhaber, one of the nation's leading researchers on teacher effectiveness. Another solid indicator? The marketplace. Superintendents and principals, who are on the hook for results, can't get enough TFA teachers.

But it's worth noting that while the TFA corps overall turns in strong results, that doesn't mean all of its teachers can walk on water. Some of them turn out to be total duds. One recent example: when then-schools chancellor Michelle Rhee (herself a TFA alumna) told principals in Washington to get rid of low-performers as part of a budget reduction measure, there were some TFA teachers who got booted as a result. Being better on average doesn't mean universal excellence.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2047211,00.html#ixzz1Zazf2Bik.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. My district fired 80 experienced teachers to make room for TFA

This isn't about doing what's best for kids. It's about saving money. It's much cheaper to pay first year teachers than to pay veteran teachers.

And no, they aren't interested in teaching as a profession. If they were, they would have earned an education degree instead of one in liberal arts or psychology or other non education field.

They are interested in getting their student loans paid off. They are interested in doing something noble for 2 years that will look good on their law school or MBA application.

If they were really interested in teaching as a profession, then over 60% of them wouldn't leave teaching when their 2 year TFA term is up.

[madfloridian]

47. That is shocking.

I notice several in this thread are trying to make us feel sorry for the "bright young people" who can't get jobs.

Well, I will be damned if I will express approval of their taking the jobs of others with years of devoted service.

Thanks for your post.

[WildEyedLiberal]

85. + 1 million

I toyed with the idea of applying for TFA but decided not to for all the reasons you state. I think it's despicable that teaching disadvantaged children has been reduced to a feel-good Americorps project for privileged upper middle class kids from elite colleges who need a resume booster for their Harvard law application.

* The main thing that turned me off of TFA was their obsessive focus on grades and extracurricular activities rather than ANY evidence of interest in teaching or ability to build rapport with kids. It's not about the kids and never has been.

[KamaAina]

49. The key word there is "starting".

A starting teacher's salary isn't much in most places.

It may be too early to tell whether TFA teachers as a group are interested in teaching as a profession, but what I've heard suggests otherwise: that many burn out after a couple of years and move on, to replaced by a new crop of TFA teachers, also at the starting salary.

[ellisonz]

51. And they fire the tenured teachers anyway...

there's just not enough money to go around.

[madfloridian]

52. There would be money if it were given a priority in this country.

Instead the corporate media is pushing TFA and TNTP and others like them.

There would be money if we had our priorities straight.

Instead people argue, like you are, that TFA means well because it's about the poor young people.....all the while forgetting that there are others who are suffering.

Backing off. I always do that when I feel the anger rise at comments.

[chervilant]

61. Well, durn...

I suspect that the Obama sycophants who usually disrespect your efforts are being supplanted by clueless young people eager to justify the continued assault on public education...

[ellisonz]

66. You're being disrespectful.

We're not clueless. We're desperate for somebody, anybody to give us a chance. Young people are not clueless. Now you're stereotyping...

[madfloridian]

77. How do you think the laid-off teachers feel when TFA is hired in their place???

[ellisonz]

78. Pissed off. But it's not TFA forcing budget crunches...

[madfloridian]

80. It is TFA causing the firings and layoffs in many cases.

You are living in a dream world which appears to consider only "young" people as important.

Doing what I should have done long time ago. Bye.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chervilant]

86. hmm...

When anyone posts "Blame Republicans," they are skirting the thin edge of legitimacy in throwing out accusations of stereotyping...

As a teacher and a lifelong advocate, I am strongly opposed to the current corporatist-driven assault on public education. I am strongly opposed to the anti-teacher and anti-union directives supported by this administration.

Ignorance (cluelessness) should not be a source of shame, nor should anyone thus accused feel defensive. WILLFUL ignorance is an entirely different kettle of fish. I strongly encourage you to read madfloridian's comprehensive coverage of this administration's deleterious education policies. You might want to view some of Sir Ken Robinson's talks.

Just FYI, one of my students is a most amazing environmentalist, who's helped broaden my activism by encouraging me to view her favorite documentaries. She's about to turn 15. I mention her, both because our friendship richly illustrates the reciprocity inherent in the relationships between 'educators' and the 'educated,' and because she represents the measurable percentage of young people who will 'survive' our perverted system of public education.

[ellisonz]

101. I was one of those students...

I watched the whole first video and it state's nothing that is not obvious to anyone who has gone through or worked in public schools. It would seem that you don't link my "divergent thinking" that see's multiple answers as opposed to one (about 7:40).

The basic fact is that underinvestment in educational systems is forcing this conflict and if we all focused on getting more investment of resources into the schools. I'm not opposed to educational unions as a principle - I'm opposed to doing nothing to try and turn around the educational system where it has failed.

Was your high school surrounded by 15ft steel-spike tipped fencing? Mine was. I suggest you watch this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND_a8rA67VA - You might understand a little bit where I'm coming from on this issue.

[chervilant]

103. hmm...

Two things:

1) Review the rules of possessives.

2) Educate yourself about how the corporatists are using TFA to displace veteran teachers and destroy unions.

[chervilant]

104. hmm...

Why do you continue to post assertions about a subject about which you are under- or mis-informed? Those of us who've followed this issue, availing ourselves of multiple resources so that we can fight for our rights as erudite and experienced educators, do not cotton to the disrespect (intended or not) inherent in comments such as yours.

[NashVegas]

53. Ask The Average Corp Member How Long They Intend To Stay With It?

[ellisonz]

67. Here:

Retention

Teach For America reports that nearly half of their alumni teach at their placement schools for a third year. Many others go on to teach elsewhere, especially at KIPP charter schools and other schools founded by Teach For America alumni. Still others train for administrative positions, and Teach For America now reports that 67% of its alumni are working or studying in education.<13>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teach_for_america#Retention

[LWolf]

17. +1

[Demeter]

9. It's Like Mao Tse Tung's Cultural Revolution, Which Set China Back By A Generation or Two

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

[cachukis]

10. I'm still reading. Keep up the good work.

[radhika]

26. I wonder if the TFA kiddies know that they're....

cheap tools for union busting. Oust the teachers, fill their slots with 'enthusiasm' and in a year or two, turn the whole she-bang over to private for -profit corporations.

At some point, it will dawn on the TFA-ers that they are slaving away at HALF the wages of union teachers of a previous generation earned - and they'll be just as drained, and their students will be just as under-resourced and uninspired.
'

[roody]

31. Unfortunately they are also scabs.

[madfloridian]

96. I think some are catching on.

But the TFA leaders like Kopp are still pulling the we are superior to regular teachers stuff. It's causing bad feelings.

[izquierdista]

33. This gives me an idea

I got a 'B' in anatomy 30 years ago. Maybe with 5 weeks training, I could be a doctor at a hospital in Ohio. I hear that low-income people are having a difficult time getting medical care; maybe I could get hired by a charter hospital. I'm sure I could save a lot of patients from regular doctors. How about it Gov. Kasich?

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. I've owned pets for years. I am going to be a vet.

:)

[chervilant]

62. Oh, yeah?!

Well, I've been doing crafts for years, so I think I'll be the next Van Gogh!

[Starry Messenger]

36. k&r

[Kat45]

38. Many of these students from elite colleges have never met a poor person before.

How are they supposed to be these great teachers to 'save' these kids when they have no understanding whatsoever of the kids' world? I went to a somewhat elite college, and these kids had no concept of anyone else's world. To them, upper-middle-class was the norm.

[ellisonz]

71. Have you ever heard of financial aid and student loans?

Why would rich kids want to go into such a difficult situation as public education? They don't. The people I've known who've done TFA are decidedly middle or working class.

[Kat45]

73. Yes, I have, but a majority of the kids in these schools are well off.

And that's always my first reaction on hearing about students from elite colleges. But what you're saying makes sense, about the middle and working class kids being more drawn to TFA, and I will defer to you on that count since you know people who've done TFA and I don't. Though there are some rich kids who might go toward public education, at least for a while, thinking that only they can help (and perhaps not realizing just how difficult it is).

[ellisonz]

76. Of course...

I never made an absolute claim. I think it's also important to note that over 1/3rd of participants are minorities. I don't think most have any illusions about their task. Whether they succeed or fail is often up to the support they receive and their mettle. It's not as if retention rates overall are excellent. I've read about and known plenty of credentialed teachers who grew frustrated and quit.

[Kurovski]

45. K&R. (nt)

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

56. My personal but non-TFA e.g.: Principal hired new (but experienced) teachers; told us we could learn

from them.
I was about to retire (age 52, not decrepit). My replacement from that principal's fold asked me for notes, tests, etc.

After my 30 years of study, travel, and creativity? But I COULD LEARN FROM HER.

Too bad for her I had thrown out every single scrap during the year. Bwaahahahahaha!!!

FTTFA.

[whistler162]

58. I have 30 years experience in my field and they day

I don't expect to learn something new from someone, with more or less experience than I have, is a bad day!

Sounds like retirement was a good idea!

[madfloridian]

59. I think the poster refers to attitude of the replacements .

I have heard other teachers speak of it. Even the interns from the state universities speak of experienced teachers as if they are not worthy. They are walking into classrooms and acting superior. Some teachers refuse to take interns anymore, even if they get credit toward re-certification. The last 10 years I taught I would not take student teachers.

I think the badmouthing of public school teachers with tenure started before we realized what they were doing. I think it is being integrated into their training now.

Now we know, and we either defend ourselves or public education dies.

I am retired, so all I can do is speak my mind. Teachers are catching on quickly.

I think you misunderstood the poster to whom you responded.

[WinkyDink]

68. I guess you don't grasp the concept of "gratuitous insult." Funny how the other dame wasn't expected

to learn FROM ME, according to the principal.

And ain't you the cat's meow.

[WinkyDink]

57. And for another thing: IT IS NOT ABOUT STUDENTS. It is about TFA $$$, and resumes.

[madfloridian]

74. If TFA is so much better....why does Bill Gates give them earpieces to be talked through lessons?

Really, he does that. He wants to help them grow like the real teachers who were laid off so they could be stuck in a class and monitored through earbuds. That is absurd.

Bill Gates to use in-ear wiring for TFA teachers to speed development as teachers.

Teachers-in-training will have their very own personal angel to discreetly coach them through new lesson plans, with the same ear-bud wiring that feeds live information to NFL coaches. Teach for America is hoping that private coaching will speed up the painstakingly slow process of teacher development, allowing teachers to get both tailored instruction and the experience of being at the head of the classroom, without risking a disaster for students.

"Once a teacher understands what it feels like to be successful, it takes root immediately," Monica Jordan, coordinator of teacher professional development in Memphis City Schools, told Education Week.

The experimental group of teachers is willing, if hesitant. "I thought, what if they say something in my ear and I lose my train of thought?" said algebra teacher Cynthia Law. "And then I thought, so what if I lose my train of thought, I'll figure it out," Law continued, confidently, "I'm not a play-it-safe person. I'm willing for my kids' sake to look foolish."

Ain't it great??!! Uncle Bill is there to help them when the experienced teachers are gone. And all young folks in this thread who think it is all okay....explain that away.

Are they effing ready to teach or not?? No one ever talked me through any class I taught at any grade. I was on my own. I was a grad of a very good private college, but it was not Ivy League. Gee, could that be why?

Yeh, I am angry at the defense of laying off tenured teachers for 5 week trainees.

[WildEyedLiberal]

79. I could not agree with this more. TFA is all about bolstering the resume for law school

I have no respect for the program. It accepts only "elite" students from "elite" schools, and the criteria for selection only amount to grades, extracurricular activities, and other factors not relevant to actually being a decent teacher. The entire scheme amounts to a resume builder for wealthy privileged white kids who want to get accepted to an Ivy League law school. I find it abominable that so many people think its a good idea. TFA is not at all about helping any poor or disadvantaged students and all about helping a bunch of rich kids get a leg up on law school. Ugh.

[madfloridian]

84. I agree. A "resume builder."

Thanks for the post. That is just about what it is. :hi:

[wordpix]

90. wow, that's exactly what one of the TFA's I worked with did

She was actually very competent, if totally inexperienced/making mistakes sometimes. Sne applied to law school in her first months on the job, left public school teaching after one school year.

[Generic Other]

87. Rich spoiled elites with expensive educations

vs hardworking middleclass teachers from state schools. I know where I am putting my money.

[wordpix]

91. my experience w/ TFA - one person good, another not, both left after a year

Both young women worked in an inner city school with a BAD reputation that was taken over by a charter school company. One woman was very competent, if inexperienced and understandably making mistakes at times, but she applied to law school almost immediately after she started teaching there. Second woman was obese with a drinking problem. She was always eating and making a mess of the room, plus she was in a bad mood 1/2 the time and many of the kids were ticked off with her.

When another teacher and I started the school year, we discovered mouse droppings in the little room used for food/coffee and it was filthy. We were always cleaning it, yet these two women never helped. I guess they're still used to mommy doing it for them.

In contrast, there was a young male teaching intern who I also worked with, who was fantastic. He was in a special ed teacher training program and had to work full time for free as part of his training. He was the best of the three and I would have hired him in an instant if I could have.

[ellisonz]

99. It's the same with all people...

...doesn't discriminate by age, race, gender, religion, or anything else under the sun.

[fishwax]

92. too late to recommend, but a hearty kick

:kick:

[dembotoz]

93. and kick again

[Cats Against Frist]

100. And what if they're better -- or if some of them are better?

The law of averages would probably dictate than many teachers (like all of my tenured professors) are lazy and apathetic, and some of these enthusiastic teachers might do some good -- or at the very least, kick some of the more complacent teachers into gear.

And if they're not? If they're enthusiasm is short-lived? Then, it will all even out in the end, I would think.

Just show them what's what by being a better teacher. Then the kids will win -- they are the ones who are supposed to win, right?

[madfloridian]

102. I don't think you are aware they are firing GOOD teachers as well.

I am saying bye to you because your post really makes me angry....I seldom met a teacher who was not caring and enthusiastic under the worst teaching conditions.

I won't see your posts after this moment.

[chervilant]

106. WHAT?!?

At first I thought your comment was a snark. But, I see that you have no respect for your tenured professors--apparently 'lazy and apathetic' to a one--and you think 'many' teachers are complacent (or lazy and apathetic, like your 'tenured professors'?) How sad for you.

(Just fyi: "If they're their enthusiasm is...")

(Don't bother to respond. You've just joined all of the other ill-informed, malicious, and/or toxic people on my ignore list.)