Is the US a Police State?

[Donnachaidh]

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/09/29/is-the-us-a-police-state/

Honorable people like to debate whether the United States of America is a “police state,” but when it comes to shutting down the expression of ideas on the political left, there’s little room for argument.

We are inundated in this country with propaganda boilerplate about being the greatest democracy in the world. No, we’re not a police state like our friends in Saudi Arabia or our former friends, and current enemies, in Iran. Our police agencies have figured out how to accomplish police state repression in a “softer,” more sophisticated manner.

Look at the video in the September 26 report by Lawrence O’Donnell of MSNBC on what he describes as a “violent burst of chaos” caused by armed “troublemakers” from the New York Police Department.

It was a peaceful demonstration against Wall Street greed. At least it started out that way. All evidence suggests it was, then, sent careening into chaos by the police strong-arming of young protesters who had done nothing but express their views in public.

More at the link --

[GreenStormCloud]

1. In ALL countries the police are ALWAYS on the side of the power establishment. N/T

[elocs]

3. "Always" and "never" are commonly pretty useless words

because one exception negates them.

[GreenStormCloud]

7. Show me the exception. N/T

[elocs]

11. Really? Always? Every single time, no exception? Do you live in the real world? n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

13. Very much in the real world.

The police of any country enforce the laws of that country. Who makes the laws? That would be the power establishment. They may occasionally arrest a member of that establishment, but they never move to overthrow the establishment itself. If they did that they would be overthrowing themselves.

If the police are corrupt then it merely means that they are supporting a different power establishment than the official one.

[hack89]

2. No

having visited some real police states.

[NYC Liberal]

4. No, but that doesn't mean there are not real problems.

[Rebubula]

5. No...not even close

Travel to some REAL police states and then compare\contrast.


This kind of silly hyperbole does not help anything.

[izquierdista]

9. Yeah, in REAL police states, bribes work

In America, your cash is no good, as the police are too well paid. To get on a cop's good side, you have to have a couple of right-wing bumper stickers and a buzz-cut. If you do that and appear to be a good ol' boy, he's more likely to let your discretion pass while he looks for some lib-tard's head to bust.

[hifiguy]

6. Yes, but a "soft" police state

as opposed to a "hard" police state like the former East Germany. One cannot live in a large city anymore without assuming that you are under constant surveillance while in public. Every phone in the country has been compromised since Chimpy's Total Information Awareness was instituted - and not reined in or shut down by the Current Occupant - and the same goes for most internet usage.

The cops can do whatever they want to whomever they wish to do it with zero citizen recourse or internal discipline as can any large corporation. And those corporations share every bit of data they gather with the authorities - that you can bet on.

So, yes, we live in a "soft" police state.

[ThomWV]

8. I think its as hard a police state as it choses to be when the occasion arises.

Our police state is only "soft" when we are compliant. If we take one step out of line, as individuals or as a group, they will come down just as hard as they can.

[Zywiec]

10. no, just like we're not a third-world country n/t

[Donnachaidh]

15. haven't traveled in the deep south much?

Or other poor areas of the country, eh? :sarcasm:

[flamingdem]

12. While it can be in some cases try anywhere in the 3rd world to see a "police state" nt

[Pigheaded]

14. Hell Yes it is!

[Uncle Joe]

16. It's just a matter of degree and which way the momentum swings

The U.S. isn't a police state as in the finished product; (if there is such a thing) as being the case in some other nations but there are strong dynamics pushing us in that direction.

1. The Republican Party has abandoned any pretense of representing the public good, it's all privatized and corporatized with them, the Democratic Party at least puts up a pretense. Under the current state of affairs the mega-corporations; rule the government and their interests trump those of the people.

2. The growing immoral for profit prison industry will thrive during bad economic times as more out of work people become desperate and turn to crime, more crime = more money for the for profit prison industry, even during good economic times, they always had the "War on some Drugs" as a means to criminalize the American People. As this industry grows in power and wealth, they will have an increased ability to lobby/bribe the Congress, Presidents, State legislatures and Governors to pass even more draconian laws and sentencing feeding that cycle as our world record breaking, prison population continues to expand and morph into a 21st century version of slavery.

3. The aforementioned Republican Party believes its' interest lies in disenfranchising and/or alienating the people as a means to obtain or maintain power, so they're intricately tied to a for profit prison industry, criminalizing the people eliminates their voting rights. Some Republicans are already proposing doing away with the direct election of Senators because they view the growing power and influence of the Internet as a threat to their increasingly exposed, total corporate allegiance.

Thanks for the thread, Donnachaidh.

[Fire Walk With Me]

17. If they decide on a crack down, it will be ugly. However, it would also work against them

big time. Take it into consideration, powers that be :hi:

[ThomWV]

18. Have any of you missed the fact that most police departments are heavily armed nowdays?

Some of them actually have tanks, they've got automatic weapons, they are as heavily armed these days as military forces of the Viet Nam era.

[PufPuf23]

19. The USA is not a nation of domestic equal justice under the law.

Modern technology makes one easy to find and follow.

Most of our media is propoganda.

Most our institutions are corrupted.

The Patriot Act and other legislation and executive orders give the mechanism for a strong police state.

Probably things will get worse before better, alas.

[treestar]

20. If members of the left were thrown in prison for expressing their views

That would be a police state.

This is the same type of hyperbole right wingers engage in when they call us Marxists.

It's not a police state or it's all OK. You can protest what's happening here. In a police state there would be no Wall street protests. They would all be in jail.