5 Signs That America Is Moving Away from Religion

[Donnachaidh]

http://www.alternet.org/belief/152558/5_signs_that_america_is_moving_away_from_religion/



In between bragging about the number of people they've killed and vilifying gay soldiers, the GOP presidential candidates have spent the primaries demonstrating how little they respect the separation of church and state. Michele Bachmann seems to think God is personally invested in her political career. Both she and Rick Perry have ties to Christian Dominionism, a theocratic philosophy that publicly calls for Christian takeover of America's political and civil institutions. (Even Ron Paul, glorified by civil libertarians for his only two good policy stances -- opposition to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and drug prohibition -- sputtered about churches when asked during a debate where he'd send a gravely ill man without health insurance.)

GOP pandering to the Religious Right is just one of those facts of American public life, like climate change denial and Creationism in schools, that leave secular Americans lamenting the decline of the country, and of reason and logic. Organized religion's grasp on the politics and culture of much of Europe has been waning for decades -- why can't we do that here?

But there are signs that American attitudes are changing in ways that may tame religion's power over political life in the future.

Annie Laurie Gaylor, founder of the Freedom from Religion Foundation, tells AlterNet that she thinks what happened in Europe is (slowly) happening here. While questioning religion remains controversial -- Gaylor says the group's work on church and state issues often elicits hate-mail strongly suggesting they move to, you know, Europe -- atheism, skepticism, and agnosticism are becoming more widely accepted.

More at the link --

[Kolesar]

1. Author left out the "great exodus from Rome"

People have had it with the Church. Would *you* send your little kids to schools run by those guys?

[Skidmore]

3. I wouldn't but they have been actively working on infiltrating the public school system

for some time now. Yesterday a significant part of the local morning news was devoted to the "Rally at the Pole" ploy aimed at a prayer meeting on school campuses at the flag pole. How's that for jingoism? That was deemed as the essential issue to report on around education rather than how to get resources to our public schools.

[Kolesar]

5. When do they find time to counsel the impoverished?

:sarcasm:

[JoeyT]

28. That stuff has been going on for years.

In the early 90s (94 I think it was) my mom threatened the school with a lawsuit for suspending me for "insubordination" because said insubordination was refusing to go pray with the rest of the kids at the flag pole.

The main difference is they backed down then, now they'd drag out their crosses and try to play martyr on national television.

[semillama]

2. Not fast enough. n/t

[Major Nikon]

18. +1

[hifiguy]

4. It cannot happen soon enough for me.

Far too many of the religulous are completely fricking insane - psycho in the clinical sense as in utterly divorced from reality.

See: http://www.alternet.org/story/152538/how_conservative_politicians_wait_for_god_to_fix_the_economy%2C_with_frightening_results?akid=7635.315748.ZT2NdW&rd=1&t=5

[Arugula Latte]

6. Nice to get a bit of good news.

We are well behind Europe in this area, but it's nice to know maybe in some areas we're evolving in a good direction, in spite of the Teabaggers and nutbags running rampant here.

[Arugula Latte]

11. Another factor: The Internet facilitates the "Emperor's New Clothes" moments

Even people stuck in backwards little small towns where everybody, say, goes to the same rightwing Baptist church can can see that their nagging doubts and disbelief in organized superstition and magical thinking are shared by millions. Prior to the Internet, this wasn't possible.

[E-Z-B]

7. It's sad because my liberal Lutheran Church (ELCA) does a lot of good for the community

We provide shelter to poor women & children, collect food for pantries & homeless shelters, provide assistance to our sister church in Camden to help kids get off the streets, provide counseling to those grieving over the loss of loved ones, help the elderly get to doctor's appointments and get them food, provide funds to the world disaster and world hunger programs, open our doors to community groups such as AA, Mom's clubs, etc., among other things.

We welcome anyone of any background, race, and sexual orientation. We preach a message of love, not hate.

[Arugula Latte]

9. That's nice, but all that can be done and is done without religion.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. As they have every right to do.

Just not with my tax money.

(BTW, AA is also a religious organization - no matter what their propaganda says.)

[Gormy Cuss]

20. Faith and religion still plays a role in the lives of many Europeans.

The difference is largely that their beliefs and practices are considered a private matter and not a call to reform government into their image of a godly nation.

That's what's nutty about our country right now -- the infusion of not just religion, but a very narrow dogma of conservative Christianity.

[Major Nikon]

23. Not as you might think

Churches in Europe are like the queen of England or the king of Norway which is they primarily serve a ceremonial role. Churches in Europe are places to get married or have a funeral. The vast majority of Europeans don't believe in a man who lives in the sky who directs their lives. So yes, religion to some extent still plays a role in their life, but faith does not. If one of their leaders said god told them to invade a sovereign nation, they would be laughed out of office.

[Gormy Cuss]

24. So they're empty on Sundays and other worship days?

I know that many Europeans are either atheist or agnostic. My post was about the fact that there are still faithful who are active participants in their religions and the respective rites associated with those religions.

It's not as if being in a majority atheist country automatically translates into persecution of the religious or requiring declarations of a lack of faith to be elected, which is pretty much the way the religious right in this country envisions it.

[Major Nikon]

26. There's not nearly as many of them

The reason the faithful in Europe keep to themselves is because they are clearly in the minority and they know there are too many people who value reason over superstition and aren't afraid of letting them know it. The reason why the faithful here enjoy so much influence over government is because too many are afraid to confront them with reason.

We are saying the same thing essentially, but I just can't agree with your reason. That's just my opinion based on living in Europe for several years. You may be right. I just don't see it that way.

[Major Nikon]

21. Nothing sad about it

Copeland's church buys him jets and mansions. Other churches send their leaders on sabbaticals to countries with lax enforcement of child molestation laws. Certainly some churches do things that are worthwhile, but others swindle people out of donation monies. If all religion went away tomorrow, those same people you mention who preach messages of love and give their time and money will still be around doing the same thing. They will just belong to other worthwhile organizations. Meanwhile the charlatans will have a much harder time practicing their craft.

[Hydra]

25. As poster further up said

Nice, but we should be(and are) doing all of those in a secular context.

This isn't an issue of balance of good and bad, it's about keeping faith as a personal thing rather than a society thing, and certainly keeping it from being a power in the political arena.

[qb]

8. I think our history of separation of church & state combined with protection of religious diversity

is what kept religion strong in the U.S.
The religious right's attempts to tear down the wall and impose their own theocracy is seriously backfiring.

[exboyfil]

14. Thomas Jefferson and the Baptist Wheel of Cheese

I mentioned this in my Sunday school class and no one understodd the reference. The Baptists gave Jefferson a wheel of cheese as thanks for his work on separation of church and state. Baptists mind you. I wonder what they would think of their progeny now.

[Ikonoklast]

15. They were the opressed back then.

Guess they forgot.

[Major Nikon]

27. Slavery separated the Babtists

nt

[louslobbs]

10. K&R The quicker, the better.

Lou

[valerief]

13. Can we FINALLY have a Renaissance? nt

[rbixby]

16. To me a sure sign of its decline

Is that the crazies are yelling louder and louder all the time.

[toddwv]

17. These things happen in cycles.

The fundies push and push and push eventually every body gets sick of it and pushes back. If we're lucky it'll get pushed off a cliff.

To be honest, I have no problem with people of faith. I do have a problem with those people trying to legislate their faith on me, however.

[idiotgardener]

19. Thank God. (nt)

[Lucian]

22. It needs to happen faster.