Obama must face meaningful Democratic primaries

[defendandprotect]

Obama must face meaningful Democratic primaries

Ralph Nader guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 27 September 2011 16.44 EDT Article history

Only a slate of serious candidates can oblige the president to listen to his loyal
Democratic base as he runs for re-election

President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama arriving on Air Force One in New York last week. Photograph: Kevin Lamarque/Reuters
America's two-party dictatorship – a model unknown in any other western country – keeps reinventing the ways it closes doors not just on third party candidates but on any challenges to their incumbent presidents within the party's primaries.

Now, it is the turn of the Democrats to make a mockery out of the first amendment rights of others to speak, assemble and petition their government by running inside the upcoming presidential primary season that runs from January to June 2012. After President Obama took his liberal/progressive base for so many one-sided corporatist rides in his administration, he and his allies are very determined to give him a free ride by having him campaign around the country on Air Force One as an unchallenged, one-man primary.

This tedious scenario would have his supporters watch President Obama repeatedly respond, on his omnipresent teleprompter, to the crazed Republicans and their issues – instead of offering a ringing affirmation for his second term of the neglected majoritarian liberal/progressive agendas.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/27/obama-democratic-primary-ralph-nader



---------------------

Agree on the importance of this to move Obama/Dems to the left -- and to educate voters

during debates where supposedly we are to learn something about the issues.


"one in three workers receiving Wallmart-level wages" -- Yikes!

And, Grayson isn't kidding -- 45,000 of those lacking health care insurance are dying every year!

And, pensions of Americans are being drained or looted by corporate criminals --

Didn't know this but evidently 45 Americans -- and Nader -- are pushing 200 "distinguished

liberals" to organize a slate of 6 Democratic candidates -- not to defeat him -- to press

him on fundamental Democratic Party principles pre corporate $$$$ --

Obama has been being pulled by corporations on their positions -- as the GOP has pulled him.

We need to get into the "tugging contests" --

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Elected Democrats need to understand that...

going hard right and screaming "who the @#$% else ya gonna vote for, chumps?" is not acceptable behavior. 18 years of this as the overarching Democratic strategy has destroyed our country.

And there's only one legal way to teach them that lesson.

[woo me with science]

22. Well said. nt

[Major Hogwash]

23. Do you have a link for that quote?

I know you don't, but I thought I'd give you the opportunity to provide one, all the same.

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Is it not obvious that it's parody?

Sorry if it was confusing.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

38. I thought you were quoting any one of 5,328 posts on DU from any given day

Heaven knows I've caught Hell for suggestion what the OP suggests.

[Major Hogwash]

68. Oh, it's parity, huh?

Oh-kay.

[woo me with science]

33. Oh for pete's sake.

:eyes:

[Fuddnik]

62. What's Pete got to do with it?

Link?

[woo me with science]

66. ...

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

43. Did you happen to see Jonathan Cowan, Pres. THIRD WAY on C-span this morning?

Cowan was making clear that it is the belief of the THIRD WAY which now controls

the Democratic Party that the "base of the party" has to be ignored --


And that POPULIST discussion/debate is pretty much the same thing as Karl Rove propaganda!!


:nuke:

[MannyGoldstein]

65. Dr. Dean... where are you... we need you back...

I thought I was paying attention in 2008, and I don't remember Obama telling us that he'd come with an entourage of Third-Way Zombies.

[defendandprotect]

73. And Obama seems to be trying to put the mask back on again -- !!

A repeat of 2012 -- ? "Fool me once ... " -- ???

But, seriously, think we need to keep an eye on and keep talking about this Third way

thing -- !!

[defendandprotect]

45. dupe

[banned from Kos]

2. "debates"? Obama would not stoop to debate some has-been

hack on a political publicity mission.

[defendandprotect]

3. Who'd want to hear from these people .... hmmmm......

President Obama can avoid primary debates were there to be just one candidate. But six recognisable, articulate candidates from the fields of labor, poverty, military, foreign policy, health insurance and healthcare, the planet's ecology, financial regulation, political/rights empowerment and consumer protection would instill voter excitement and enthusiasm and thus be harder to ignore. If President Obama believes in his own skills, he should come out stronger than the present defensive, wobbly posture in which he has placed himself vis à vis the reactionary, aggressive Republicans in Congress.

[madinmaryland]

5. Wouldn't it be better if Obama just invited them over for a discussion?

Kind of like the listening tour Hillary Clinton took several years ago? You know, try and bring the party together, rather than doing something to splinter the party??

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

34. Debates are held to inform the public .... not the candidates -- !!

Hillary Clinton was Koch Bros. DLC leadership -- unfortunately she and Bill have

been trying to "bring the party together" for the benefit of corporations like Koch Bros!


True -- people like Jonathan Cowan -- THIRD WAY -- which now controls the Democratic Party

think that "populist" discussion is as dangerous as Karl Rove propaganda -- (Saw him on

C-Span this morning) -- and aren't much for open debates with all candidates participating.


DLC/THIRD WAY -- Koch Bros., the criminal Pfizer and Chevron -- and corporate money in general

taken by Dem Party and elected Democrats is what is "splintering the party."



:nuke:

[jaxx]

14. Democrats do not want a primary.

Comprehend?

[WI_DEM]

64. Jimmy Carter never even debated Ted Kennedy, who was far from a hack.

[LoZoccolo]

4. Says a UK newspaper. n/t

[Creideiki]

30. And the first major outlet to report on OccupyWallStreet was Al Jazeera

For those keeping score at home, this is the "Ad hominem" logical fallacy. You can't argue the merit of the proposal, so you argue the person bringing forth the proposal.

[Cali_Democrat]

51. It's an editorial from Ralph Nader posted in a UK newspaper. n/t

[YellowCosmicSun]

6. This was written by that bastard Nader. Why drag this trash in here?

[unkachuck]

7. if the primaries turn out to be a yawn and sham....

....many citizens and most Progressives will respond accordingly....let the Party establishment not say they weren't forewarned....

....I'm serious, the way I read the sentiments of people around me right now, puts Obama in serious trouble....people have buyers' remorse....

[defendandprotect]

37. Debates are controlled by corporations ... in order to limit debate and info on issues ...

especially POPULIST debate -- !!

And according to Jonathan Cowan, Pres. THIRD WAY which now controls the Dem Party,

they consider POPULISM and POPULIST DEBATE to be as dangerous as Karl Rove propaganda!!


The debates are controlled by a private corporation now -- agreed to by the two parties!!

[SidDithers]

8. Fuck Ralph Nader...nt

Sid

[ellisonz]

16. Seconded.

[deacon]

26. Thirded. n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

9. A slate? A SLATE? A WHOLE FUCKING SLATE when...

the slimedwellers always looking for a primary haven't come up with one volunteer so far.

And Ralphie... we all knew you were full of shit from day one when every track had guys installing sway bars on Corvairs and learning how to deal with oversteer. (Good thing you never saw a Porsche)

[bigwillq]

10. All incumbents should face a primary challenge.

It's good for democracy.

[Iktomiwicasa]

24. yup

[defendandprotect]

35. +1 --

[Proud Liberal Dem]

52. Bring him (or her) on already

If somebody wants to pony up the money, get the needed sigs, and make a run for it, then they can. :shrug: Why haven't we heard about an actual challenger as of yet?

I imagine that President Obama will be able to aquit himself quite well against a primary challenger- if he ever gets one.

[defendandprotect]

58. For info on that ...

read the article -- !!

[bigwillq]

67. Good 'ole Randall Terry is running.

I was just making a broad statement about incumbents in general.
Obama already has a challenger. Granted, Terry is NO threat AT ALL, nor would I ever consider voting for Terry.

[treestar]

60. Only if someone chooses to run

[jaxx]

11. Nader is a racist, so why is he being lauded here?

I think people need to step back and look at what they are choosing to support.

Unrec

[cliffordu]

12. LOL. These posts are my favorite.

how fucking stupid do you think we are???

[Denzil_DC]

13. Again with the crappy untruthful RW teleprompter meme unrec n/t

[Major Hogwash]

15. Ralph Nader and $3 will get you a cup of coffee.

Hell, you don't even need the Nader to do that!

LoL

[Major Hogwash]

17. Ralph Nadir hits bottom, "I can't even get exposed on TMZ for dropping my pants in public."

Nobody pays any attention to him, even if he does hang out in public.

He can't get exposed for exposing himself!

That's how boring Nadir is!

[frazzled]

18. Yawn

Can we get a moratorium on this Nader stuff? (It's about the 57th post on it in two weeks.) And such a badly written article. He's getting feeble-minded.

[WhiteTara]

19. Go to HELL Nadir. n/t

[AngkorWot]

20. What does Ralph Nader know about meaningful? He's a clown.

Any primary challenge to Obama wouldn't be meaningful. It would be a pathetic joke and a waste of time.

[defendandprotect]

41. Right, go with Jonathan Cowan, THIRD WAY now controlling the party ...

as he made clear on C-Span this morning, "the base of the party is to be ignored" --

And he pretty much equated POPULIST discussion/debate to be the same as Karl Rove

propaganda -- !!


But he's not a clown -- ?!!


:puke: --

[hfojvt]

21. a slate really seems like a dumb idea

then each one of them will draw a mere 1% of the vote and be laughed off as irrelevant. Much better to just have one that can draw 8-15% of the vote. That may not seem like much, but it is more than enough to tip an election.

Further a slate is just stupid in practical terms.

Here's the debate

Q: How do you feel about issue X

Candidate 1: blah, blah, blah for two minutes

Candidate 2: blah, blah, blah for two minutes

Obama: Blah, blah, blah for two minutes

Candidate 3: blah, blah, blah for two minutes

Average TV viewer "Isn't there anything else on?{"

Two many people makes the debate too boring. By the time the 5th person is done talking, the issue has been talked to death.

[Mr Deltoid]

25. There will be no primaries

[AtomicKitten]

27. Punxsutawney Ralph is delusional. It's just not going to happen. nt

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

32. .

:nopity:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Well, the naysayers are always preaching "Work within the party". Nader is preaching the same. K&R

So, what's the squawk about him doing so?

[Ikonoklast]

44. Nader is NOT a member of the Democratic Party.

Fuck Scab Union-Busting Fake Progressive Ralph Nader.

He can go interfere in whatever political party he belongs to.

[defendandprotect]

46. Nader is a better democrat than most of our Dems ... and he supported Obama in 2008 -- !!

And Nader has also been correct over 40 years and more about our political situation

and the buying of government by corporations ---

Koch Bros. funded DLC -- criminal Pfizer and Chevron contributing to Dem Party!

Right - -that worked well for us all!!


And now the party is under the control of the THIRD WAY -- which is advocating that the

"base of the party is to be ignored" -- !!

And that POPULIST discussion/debate is the equivalent of Karl Rove propaganda -- !!


We've had collusion between the two corporate parties since at least 1978 -- when the

Dems worked with the GOP to break the tax code for the benefit of the rich.

And that was years before Reagan -- and with Democrats in FULL control.


See: Wm. Greider/"Who will tell the people?" -- 1992 for details on that -- !!

[Ikonoklast]

49. Nader is a union-busting FRAUD.

He is Sarah Palin on the Left, and stupid people give him MONEY.

[defendandprotect]

54. Obviously, you want to ignore serious discussion ---

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. So what? He's suggesting using the party mechanism to solve the problem.

The problem being that the progressive wing of the party doesn't have a candidate running for the presidency.

[defendandprotect]

55. And THIRD WAY is saying "the base of the party" should be ignored -- !!!

Saw Jonathan Cowan, Pres. Third Way this morning on C-span -- a shocker --

and these are the people nwo controlling the Dem Party -- !!


This links to my post earlier post on that appearance --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2020955&mesg_id=2023850

[CakeGrrl]

36. Complete with the patented RW "Teleprompter" zinger. Garbage. Unrec. -nt

[Proud Liberal Dem]

59. I noticed that too!

:puke:

I (used to) come here to get away from RW memes. Now, we have to see them here too. :eyes:

[NYC Liberal]

39. No, thanks. nt

[treestar]

40. Well, he's not going to

[johnaries]

42. He DID face a meaningful primary - in 2008. nt

[defendandprotect]

56. Yes -- but which Obama -- ??? We've seen a completely different Obama since the election -- !!!

and you might also look to the 2012 election as a foreshadowing of what

the public now thinks of Obama given his myriad moves to the right -- !!

[Major Hogwash]

70. Poor lil' defendandprotect. Doesn't know who to defend or how to protect Obama.

What a whirl, what a whirl, what a crool whirl. I'm melting, I'm melting. Ohhhhh . . .

[defendandprotect]

72. Hogwash--!! We need to primary Obama -- !!

So -- attempts at personal attacks are all you have left -- ?

:rofl: --

[Zorra]

48. I'd love to see Obama in a debate with hard core progressives

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2000249&mesg_id=2001810

[mdmc]

50. must he?

[Spike89]

53. Two major fallacies in this scenario

The first is that a challenge from the left will pull (or push) Obama in that direction. It might be possible, but more likely you'd see Obama double down on the center. The only way you really pull Obama to the left by throwing primary challenges at him is to wound him, i.e., mount not just a credible challenge, but involve him in a dogfight. He'd most certainly win, but be in sad shape for the general election with an exhausted and even more fractured party.
The second is that candidate posturing is NOT binding. Frankly, (and frustratingly) elections aren't as much about setting policy, or even defining programs and initiatives--those are things that wait until after the election. Understand that if Obama were to be forced to the left in the primary, then once the general election comes around, depending on who he faces, he'll need to position himself just to the left of the republican. That is how you win American elections.
Elections and governing are NOT tightly connected, especially with 2nd term presidents who once elected can to a certain degree follow the agenda they want rather than the one they stumped on. Elections are about style, making as many people as possible believe you and they are politically alike.
Personally, I don't care one bit how Obama chooses to win a 2nd term (no other Democrat has a real chance to unseat him). I do greatly care how hard he pushes a progressive agenda once he gets past the dog-and-pony show of the election.

[defendandprotect]

57. THIRD WAY is moving Obama to the right ... as well as the GOP ...

We've watched the GOP/RW pull Obama to the Right --

We also know the party is now controlled by the THRID WAY and their stance is that

the "base of the party should be ignored." Just ssaw Jonathan Cowan on C-span this morning!

Yikes!

Cowan also says that "Populist discussion/debate" is the equivalent of Karl Rove propaganda!

So think it's pretty clear what the influences on Obama will be from within the party to move

him further to the right -- !!

However, debates are intended to inform the public -- and that's essentially why we need

challengers -- so that the public can get a better understanding of other possibilities and

solutions and hear a fairer framing of the issues.

And, I think we all have to admit that Obama is so highly protected by corporate power/$$

now that there is little threat to any "wounding" of him!


And basically, you're concluding that Obama is free once again to move to the left for the

debates/campaign but do what he did after 2008 -- move to the right!


I do greatly care how hard he pushes a progressive agenda once he gets past the dog-and-pony show of the election.

And wouldn't his record be a better indication of that -- ???

"Fool me once ... " -- bother you at all?


I think you shouldn't either ignore 2010 and the reaction to how far Obama had moved to

the right even then!

[PragmaticLiberal]

61. I feel the same way.

[WI_DEM]

63. has anybody noticed that the president does seem to be listening to the base now?

[ChillbertKChesterton]

69. I would love to see Bernie Sanders challenge Obama

Too bad he is not a Democrat.

[brooklynite]

71. Wake me up when you find a candidate...

....Specifically, wake me up when -YOU- find a candidate. I'm sure you've called, emailed or written at least one prospect who you think meets your political principles. Or are you just going to wait for someone else to do the heavy lifting?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

74. Ralph Nader would love to help get another shitbag like Bush elected

Fucking asshole.