Vizio tells owners their sets are unrepairable

[DainBramaged]

Vizio, America's second best selling LCD TV brand, is now telling some owners of broken sets that their televisions cannot be repaired. If the set is past the 12-month factory warranty, Vizio advises owners to buy a replacement set from the company.

HD Guru came across Jeff Bartran's letter to Vizio CEO and founder William Wang complaining that the company's service department had deemed "unrepairable" his 13-and-a-half-month-old, high-end $1868 Vizio 55-inch LED LCD. Bertran says Wang never responded.

HD Guru investigated to determine if Bertran's experience was unique. It didn't take long to find eight additional cases of "unrepairable" out-of-warranty Vizios posted in the last 13 months alone on the consumer complaint website consumeraffairs.com.

The unrepairable defects included black screens, dark spots and red and green lines. Vizio replaced defective in-warranty sets with refurbished units which, in certain cases, also failed after their warranty period, according to a number of owners.

http://gadgetbox.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/23/7926490-vizio-tells-owners-their-sets-are-unrepairable


I have heard this too from first party sources screaming at Best Buy managers

[MineralMan]

1. Not surprising at all.

Flat screen TVs are not something that lends itself to repair, especially if the problem is in the display itself. The electronics can be replaced, board by board, but the screen is a unit. The cost of a replacement screen for an older set would exceed the value of the set. So, the manufacturer doesn't even keep them on hand, and probably stopped using that particular screen anyhow.

You pays your money and you takes your chances. I believe I'd buy the extended warranty on any big-screen flat screen TV. Yes, I would.

[SoCalDem]

10. Which is why I happily bought the 3 yr extended "replacement" warranty

from SquareTrade for both of our new flat screens:)
Samsung 52" & LG 46"

[MineralMan]

34. Very smart. On high bucks electronics, it's a wise decision.

Computers and other stuff, not so much, especially if you buy at the low end of the price range. If they work when you get them home and keep working for 30 days, they'll probably keep working long past the warranty.

[Bozita]

43. Costco adds a year to mfr. warrantees. It worked nicely for me.

See reply #36.

[arcane1]

2. An inevitable result of "planned obsolescence"

Which, from a business perspective, is totally 100% justifiable.

From a consumer perspective, it's evil.

[hlthe2b]

3. and from a landfill point of view, given their toxic components...

I guess I can rule out VIZIO as a potential future brand (which isn't hard, since I am essentially tv-less)

[Tesha]

37. What "toxic components" are these?

Aside from the now-obsolete CCFL ("Cold-Cathode Fluorescent
Lamp") back-lights that contained a small amount of mercury,
what other toxics are there in modern ROHS-compliant TV sets?

Tesha

[hlthe2b]

39. while better than previous they are certainly not 'non-toxic'

Here's some data from California Department of Toxic Substances Control that conducted some extensive testing of discarded laptop computers, LCD
monitors, Plasma TVs and LCD TVs"

Results indicate that all PCBoards exceeded the Total Threshold Limit Concentration (TTLC)
for Copper (Cu), and the Toxicity Characteristic (TC) Limit for Lead (Pb). Plasma TV inner
panels exceeded the TTLC, the TC Limit and the Soluble Threshold Limit Concentration
(STLC) for Pb. Total Mercury (Hg) in CCFLs did not exceed the TTLC when the entire weight
of the device was factored in. However, all CCFLs exceeded the Hg TTLC when examined as
stand-alone lamps.

http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/hazardouswaste/ewaste/upload/hwmp_rep_sb20_lcd.pdf

[Tesha]

40. You're speaking "in general". I asked you: What toxics are in post-ROHS TVs?

There's certainly no lead to speak of.

No mercury.

No cadmium.

What toxics are in *TODAY'S* ROHS-compliant TVs?

Tesha

[hlthe2b]

41. where is your link... your published studies? your documentation?

I must have missed it, demanding as you are of me, how can that be? :shrug:

I would be happy to read them.

[Tesha]

60. I don't need a "published study".

At least in Europe, the "Restriction of Hazardous
Substances" (RoHS, pronounced "RoHahs") regulations
categorically *BAN* electronic devices from containing:

o Lead
o Mercury
o Cadmium
o Hexavalent Chromium (the "Erin Brokovich" metal)
o Polybrominated Biphenyls (PBB flame retardants)
o Polybrominated Diphenyl Ether (PBDE flame retardant)

and they have done so since 2006.

And because their scope was sufficiently wide-spread,
RoHS (and the related "WEED" regulations) have had
world-wide effect, changing most electronics everywhere
in the world, not just within the EU. More and more, you
simply can't *BUY* non-RoHS chips and other components.

So the issue of toxics in electronics is rapidly becoming a
non-issue and it doesn't matter what studies you trot out
about the toxic nature of old electronics (which nobody will
deny).

BTW, one if the reasons that modern electronics can be
less reliable is that lead-free solders are much less reliable
than good old tin-lead solders. Not only are the new solders
much more brittle, they also tend to grow "tin whiskers" that
lead to electrical shorts. But at least they don't contain lead.

Tesha

[hlthe2b]

61. You are posting on a US forum...

Where is your EPA data?

[Tesha]

63. Look, if you're so certain, go try and *BUY* non-RoHS material in the US.

The EPA may or may not have published anything
about this yet but I'm not going to waste my time
looking.

If you want to believe all electronics is a stew of toxic
waste, who am I to isabuse you of that idea? You're
wrong, but I suppose you're happier in that belief.
So be it.

Tesha

[hlthe2b]

65. If you won't support your statements...

then I suggest you quit being so rude and demanding of others. The goal here is a free exchange of information, but that which is backed up by more than conjecture. You believe that the European guidelines have been adopted here (and are effective) in limiting or eliminating toxic components in today's LCD and plasma screen electronics. Yet, you won't bother to support that statement. Ok. Whatever.

[Tesha]

69. I *DID* support my statements.

I explained RoHS to you in substantial detail, how
every piece of electronics sold from 2006 on with
a CE mark on it conforms, and how that has had
world-wide influence, even here in America.

Tesha

[Warren DeMontague]

4. I thought those things seemed a little *too* cheap.

I bought a 27" Samsung LCD several years ago. GREAT tv. I'd spend a little more and get a more reliable brand, it's probably worth it.

[sammytko]

13. I remember that they had a terrible picture

We have an almost 10 yr old panasonic that still looks great

[FarCenter]

5. In 2010, Visio had 120 employees

http://www.vizio.com/about/

How Vizio Beat Sony in High-Def TV

"Our model is definitely a child of the 21st century," says Wang, 46. In the 1990s, the Taiwanese-born entrepreneur, who once ran the now defunct computer-monitor company Princeton Graphics, started Vizio in 2003 with $600,000, no engineers, and no factories. He parlayed relationships with Asian manufacturers into shelf space at U.S. retailers. The company made its mark by introducing HD sets at Costco (COST) for $3,000, a third of the price of Sony, Panasonic (PC), and others. Rivals cited inferior quality; consumers didn't care. "With digital TVs, it's become harder to distinguish yourself as a premium brand," says Stan Glasgow, president of Sony Electronics' U.S. division.

Wang says what made his low-price approach work was recognizing that TVs are following the path of PCs, and that he needed to become a Michael Dell-like master of his supply chain. Wang went further than just securing good prices for parts and shipping. He offered two huge Taiwanese contract manufacturers, Foxconn and AmTRAN Technology, equity stakes in his company to ensure their attention. They bit. That enabled Vizio to deliver inexpensive sets to Costco, Wal-Mart (WMT), and other chains, and Wang's startup quickly gained market share.

So they are basically a marketing and middleman company branding sets actually made by Foxconn and AmTRAN. They probably set some specifications and design the packaging and graphics.

Repair? Not so much.

[arcane1]

9. That's pretty much the standard operating model now

The company itself is nothing more than office workers and advertizing experts, and the factory work is contracted out. From Apple to Nike, it's the new way, for better or worse. Usually worse.

[FarCenter]

12. That's true for the US so-called "manufacturers", but not necessarily the Korean or Japanese

From the article linked to in the OP:

Before purchasing a Vizio or a non-name-brand TV, consider a set from a company that actually builds them. Vizio and other lower-tier brands purchase their sets from assemblers, while name-brand companies like Samsung, Panasonic and LG have invested billions of dollars in panel and component manufacturing plants. They want to keep your business and so maintain extensive nationwide parts and service networks.

It would also be true for some Taiwanese, Chinese and other companies selling under their own brand names.

[Dawson Leery]

46. Non branded/off brand items tend to be very low in quality.

[Demonaut]

52. old news but still very relevant, most of the panels from Vizio are LG

but the rest of the parts ....god knows

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. Thank you for posting this. I saw this the other day. Planned obsolescence?

[FarCenter]

11. More like the unplanned consequences of cutting a lot of corners

First, if you don't care about ever taking it apart, you can design for cheaper and faster assembly.

Second, if you don't care whether the parts will be available beyond the end of the production run of a given model, you can find cheaper parts from suppliers with uncertain futures.

[Demonaut]

54. +1

[Ilsa]

7. Thanks for telling us about the latest corporate rip-off artists. nt

[Cal Carpenter]

8. A two thousand dollar TV that barely lasts a year?

Yay capitalism!


I am so glad I am 10 years behind the times as far as electronics. (My 10 year old, $350 TV still works fine, btw)

[exboyfil]

18. I got you beat

I have only one television set which is nearly 20 years old. It is a 25" (or 21" I am not really sure) that I got free from a woman moving. I don't turn the thing on anyway. My wife watches crap on it, and I leave the room when Survivor comes on. I enjoy my audiobooks much better or my regular books or tutoring my kids or walking the dogs while listening to my audiobooks (currently Undaunted Courage for the second time).

As far as television goes, there is nothing new under the sun. I used to watch football, but I swore off it this year (not a down watched yet this year). I have more time now.

[dana_b]

23. good for you!

it's nice to have more time, eh? I have a 16 year old Zenith - the picture is starting to get a little dark but it still works. After it goes I may have to think about whether or not I want another one. I also have another little one that I never watch. If I really want to watch something, there's always the internet.

[Liberal_in_LA]

26. Survivor is awesome!

:-)

[Logical]

38. I hope you are not serious

[Liberal_in_LA]

67. very serious. The first few seasons were awesome, watching them try to survive

[OnyxCollie]

49. I agree.

Quality entertainment. I've been a fan since the second season. (I missed the first season because I was too snooty to watch such mindless drivel.)

[Liberal_in_LA]

66. You can get the first season thru netflix. It's the classic Richard Hatch season

[Logical]

68. It is all mindless!

[OnyxCollie]

70. So what do you call the discussion on this thread?

High art?

[Logical]

73. Reading, thinking and posting is different than watching a scripted, edited show!

[OnyxCollie]

74. So you watch no television at all? nt

[Logical]

75. Reality TV s dumber than most. People think it s real when it is not!

[OnyxCollie]

77. Which shows do you like?

Which of your favorites are you willing to put up for judgement?

[Logical]

78. Nova, myth busters, modern family! I have no problem with fictional TV. But....

Reality tv is the worse. People think it is real and not manipulated. A lot of fake drama that people think are real.
Maybe you are too smart for that.

[rainbow4321]

76. Just got rid of my 24 yr old 19 inch a year ago

I realized how OLD that sucker was when I was looking at toddler pictures of my 23 yr old daughter and saw the same TV in the background!! Sure, the remote didn't work on the volume in the last years of it's life but, hey, it did work for everything else!
When we downsized to an apartment from our house I finally gave it up...and using some of the money I got from the house to buy a 50 inch flat screen! My 20 something yr old kids who had only ever had a 19 or 21 inch in the house were torn between liking it and thinking that it was way too crazy ass HUGE!
But they are also the kids that convinced me that I was the last person in their universe to change from dial up to high speed and definitely the last person they knew who still had a landline. I did ditch the landline when we moved to the apartment and eventually converted to high speed and wireless back when we were in the house.

[dionysus]

25. my 37" vizio i use for my computer monitor now, i got it in 2007 or 2008, so good so far.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Of course it works fine.

Still, there's a reason people like HD, and it's not because we all enjoy burning money.

[Cal Carpenter]

33. Of course

I'm not judging or anything. I have my own indulgences too :)

[MineralMan]

35. Yup. My $189 32" CRT TV is still looking the same as it did when

I bought it seven years ago. It owes me nothing. I wish it'd break so I'd have an excuse to buy a 40" flat screen.

[kentuck]

14. I had to take my Vizio to a regular TV repairman...

because it was hit by lightning indirectly and blew out the sound board. The repairman said these new flatscreens have very sensitive computer parts in them and they are prone to have problems with electrical storms.

Vizio said they could not repair it because it was an act of God, even though I had a two-year warranty.

[saras]

29. They should have to prove God's existence to get away with that.

It was an entirely predictable, statistically well-described electrical event. Engineers DECIDE how large of an electrical event a device will survive, although admittedly sometimes they decide through ignorance, carelessness, or planned obsolescence as a design principle.

[Bennyboy]

15. My Visio, less than 3 years.

DEAD, I then plugged in my 1985 Sony Trinitron and away we went.

FUCK THAT SHIT.

[SoCalDem]

17. We had a console RCA..BIG ole thing..still going strong

27" bought in 1982..still chugging along in my best friend's house now:) Took 2 men to move it:)

[wilt the stilt]

16. basically old CRT's never break

I actually have a philips HD CRT 30" TV. I know that sucker will never break. I also hev an LG which is quite good.

[gordianot]

19. I have a 15 year CRT Magnovox Phillips that refuses to die.

A couple years ago a storm blew out a window and the set got wet. I thought here is my chance a new television. No such luck it dried out and is still going. In the meantime my son has been through 3 flat screens in 5 years his current television is a Vizio he got last Christmas. When that goes out I probably need to give him my Magnovox. Thanks, at last here is my chance.

[Liberal_in_LA]

27. My primary TV is about 25 years old.

[jmowreader]

20. That's because they were DESIGNED to be unrepairable

As sick as this sounds, it's less expensive to throw an LCD television in the recycling bin if something goes wrong with it than it is to try fixing it.

[justiceischeap]

21. Bingo! That's why I waited several years

1) for the prices to go down and 2) for the technology to get better.

I bought I refurbished Toshiba from Tiger Direct. Got a 37" for $300 + $10 for shipping. If it dies on me, I don't feel as though I've lost a ton of money and it's super easy to move.

[Liberal_in_LA]

28. sad. n/t

[DainBramaged]

22. When you can buy Sylvania, Westinghouse and off-brand 32" LCD's for $259, they aren't worth fining.

I have A 32" Sony LCD (had Sony tvs since the 70s) And a 26" Insignia (Best Buy, built in DVD). Since I quit cable unless I'm streaming Netflix to them they get little usage.


My last 32" glass-tube Sony lasted from 1994 until I replaced it with the current LCD a year ago ONLY because it looked like crap with a computer hooked up. It was put out with a sign 'works' on it and picked up in minutes....

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

47. So you just couldn't find an American made TV in the 1970's?

Well isn't that interesting...

[Demonaut]

55. RCA and Ge produced TV's in the Indianapolis until the late 90's

but sony's vertically flat crt was the best tech....won an emmy

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Either that, or he just didn't buy one.

KILL HIM! BURN! BURN THE HERETIC!

[JVS]

57. SONY?

:spray:

[dixiegrrrrl]

24. Dell monitors, same story.

Dell computers,same story.

Many lawsuits followed.

We have a huge Dell monitor sitting in the den, from friends who went thru THREE of them in a month, Dell just shipped out replacements which also went bust, until the 4th shipment, that one worked, Dell did not want the monitors back, so Mr. Dixie is trying to fix one that friends gave us.
So I went on line and did research, sure enough, found lots of lawsuits and complaints going back years about "refurbished" parts used to repair replacement units under warranty.

[deaniac21]

30. The technology gets better so quickly that indeed this is a good idea.

[nolaboy]

31. Same thing happened to me.

I called Vizio and they told me there wasn't anything they could do since it was three months out of warranty. I did a little research on the web, found out what the problem was, ordered the part and fixed it myself. I will never buy another Vizio though.

[Bozita]

36. Bought a 55 Vizio at Costco (FREE extra yr warranty) 26mo ago. It went bad at 23mo.

There were 4-6 phone calls beginning with Costco, some emailed photos to Vizio, and the set was eventually replaced by a brand new not-the-very-latest 55 model. The process took 2-3 weeks from start to finish.

The delivery guys were fast and efficient. They even did the set-up on the new set.

We'll buy our next set at Costco again, primarily for price and the free extra year warranty.

[Odin2005]

42. This is a good example of the disgustingness of Planned Obsolescence.

[Demonaut]

53. no, its expecting a caddy when you've bought a Yugo

the adage "you get what you pay for" is still true

[NNN0LHI]

44. They are repairable. I fixed one this year. Here is the deal

They are so cheap to begin with if it fails and you need to send it out some place by the time you pay labor, parts which the installer marks up, and shipping two directions it is actually cheaper, or close to it, to just buy a new one.

If someone is just mildly handy, like know which way to turn a screwdriver and how to disconnect and reconnect a few plastic connectors, the parts can be purchased online fairly cheaply and most can be repaired for under a hundred bucks.

I don't think Vizio gets into this though because they don't want any lawsuits in case someone who may not understand basic electronics and doesn't know how to bleed off any residual voltage before starting any work and hurt themselves.

But other than that they are pretty simple to work on. Few boards, a power supply and a bulb is about it. Nothing complicated about them.

Don

[alcibiades_mystery]

58. Agreed

It's like the way people freak out when they see the inside of a desktop computer tower. It's plastic, some metal, boards, and wires. You can explain the different parts and their functions to a five year old in ten minutes.

Switched out a power supply the other day, and a whole motherboard replacement about a year ago. Both times the wife was contemplating a new machine because "the computer doesn't work." Meh. It works. $25 part here, $60 part there, and we can hold off on the new one for another year or three.

:-)

[bullwinkle428]

45. My 15-year-old Sony CRT is still chugging along with a great picture.

[Demonaut]

51. in analog....lol

[Hassin Bin Sober]

48. Man. I'm glad the boyfriend insisted on Sony bravia.

I was looking at vizio for price.

[Demonaut]

50. Sony's are not immune, I bought mine with a 5 year warranty

and they're more expensive to repair...BUT you can repair them..Vizio parts are sourced from many many vendors

[MilesColtrane]

59. Buy a Vizio, get the Wang.

[supernova]

62. We got a 42in Toshiba Regza

a couple of years ago. It's worked great so far. No problems.

About four-five years ago I bought a 13in Magnavox LED for the bedroom and it's still going strong. THe only thing that irks me is I paid about 300 for that one and those smaller panels are now about 1/2 the price. x(

In both instances though, I did research on brands and tried to get the best quality for the money that I had to spend. Hubs to be has a degree in electronics and could probably fix them if needed. I've never liked Vizio, they look cheaply made overall.

If we get a bigger set in the future (HtB is a home theatre enthusiast), it's likely to be Toshiba or or Sharp

Honestly one thing I've learned being with him, TV displays in stores are a crappy way to buy an HDTV. What you see in the store isn't what you will see at home. Most stores don't take the time to properly set up the displays.

[snooper2]

64. You get what you pay for....That's why I crack up when people brag how great their Kia is

or Hyundai is :rofl:

Really, keep telling yourself that :)

[musiclawyer]

71. Actually hyundais are very good cars

You are thinking back in the 90's. Do some basic edmunds research. You are wrong
Kia ratings have started to improve a lot in the last 2 or 3 years as well

[tritsofme]

72. I own that same Vizio tv.

$1500 back in February, no complaints so far. Knock on wood. But also bought at Costco and have a good warranty, so I am not too worried.