Netanyahu throws Obama Under Bus

[yellowwood]

Just after Netanyahu's visit here where he praised President Obama's stance against Palestinian membership in UN, he announces the building of over 1000 more homes in the East Bank. This expansion is what we had asked him to stop. "So much for our "special friendship."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-09-27-15-58-48

[hlthe2b]

1. I am so fed up with our policies towards Israel and the ME in general...

long past due for some reassessment, in my opinion (and some "tough love")

[Dragonfli]

10. Follow the AIPAC money, they have purchased our muscle to enable land theft and worse (much worse)

They use the same thinking (the less than human theory) that told our ancestors that we can steal native American land and hurt or kill any that stand in the way (in Israel's case literally via heavy equipment running over people), because after all they are not REAL people, just savages, animals really.

It is sickening but we give them the muscle to do it and use our UN veto to insure that Palestinian people will never have the rights of people or recognition as such. The latest is a joke, (the UN can't recognize them until Israel agrees to it by "negotiating" with them on Israeli terms)

[Hoosier Daddy]

14. Netanyahu doesn't negotiate

He talks, and talks, and talks, without any intention of giving anything back to the Palestinians.

[Dragonfli]

17. He is rather transparent that way, and yet we are supposed to support supporting him /nt

[notadmblnd]

2. I won't even say what I think about it.

I'll just day this belongs in the IP forum.

[yellowwood]

23. No. This Deals with US Policy

I do not like to see this issue relegated to the I/P forum. Might as well hide it under a rock. Israel is a country, not a religion. It and its leaders should be subject to criticism just as we might do to our own government and leaders in "General Discussion."

No "elephant in the living room," please.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. What a shock! Who could have possibly seen this one coming?

:sarcasm:

[BanTheGOP]

4. Please unleash the "Israel Palestine" rule

I have PLENTY to say about this issue, but unfortunately the muzzle has been placed on discussing this issue rationally. I'll have an editorial out soon, though.

[gratuitous]

5. Well, there's a shocker

Israel seems really particular about the Palestinians observing every last little precondition they decide is necessary before any negotiations can go forward, but aren't quite so circumspect about not doing everything possible to exacerbate tensions. Well, they're our special pals in the region, so I'm sure it's all good with the White House.

[sfpcjock]

6. May as well...

[ceile]

20. Can you link that graph?

I'd like to save it.
Thanks

[sfpcjock]

24. You can right-click, save... the jpg probably. Here's the link. Sec...

Take out the spaces.

http:// i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/nvpcjock/Politics/israel-palestine_map_1946_to_2000.jpg

[ceile]

26. thanks.

[Dragonfli]

7. He did not throw him under the bus, he was signaled that anything goes and followed as expected /nt

[hifiguy]

8. Once again the tail wags the dog.

Has there ever in history been a client state that always dictated ALL of the terms to its sponsor?

[mmonk]

9. It's a one way relationship. Especially with Netanyahu.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Golly. And, Obama was such a good poodle at the UN.

[FrenchieCat]

16. Pres. Obama has been a much more honest broker than most US Presidents,

and that was what we were supposed to want.

Obama is not a poodle of either Palestinians nor Israel.

[Dragonfli]

18. Now you are just being absurd, he is as much their poodle as any other POTUS /nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Really? Then why, despite the opnion of the world, will he veto the resolution?

It couldn't possibly be that he's playing politics (as usual) with the issue, could it?

[Inuca]

21. Define "the world" n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. The large majority in the General Assembly that will vote with the Palestinians.

[DLnyc]

12. When a child crosses a certain line of direspect, you must

punish that child immediately and unambiguously, or else accept that the parent-child relationship has ended.

[glowing]

13. I'm just wondering why can't they join together as one National State?

I know there is a lot of past history and violence, but for the sake of their children and humanity, why don't they come together and find a way to live with one another instead of against one another or fighting over lands they both want. What is the main goal of the people living in the area? What is the main goal of any people's living anywhere at all? Isn't it to have a roof over one's head, food in the belly, jobs, education, and peaceful stability? I'm rather sure there is more in common that connects the people's than doesn't.

Could they perhaps look to their higher power they profess their love and allegiance for and forgive and find a path forward in a peaceful manner. If both communities could learn to live with one another in peaceful manners and share equality, why not try for the sake of their people's and for the sake of the region and for the sake of the world? Perhaps I'm being too altruistic in believing that humanity can find a more peaceful path forward. Maybe one day? Maybe there will be peace in the ME in my lifetime. So far it has been going on way too long. All it does is harm those who have less to do with the policies and decisions that create the negativity and devision.

Its more than past the time we as a world found a moral path forward and decided what our values should be and how we should interact with one another. The path we are on is unsustainable. The monied class isn't brighter just because they have the money and the power.... most were born into these wealthy families and its just something they are taught they are entitled to. The rest of the world suffers at their callous hands. At some point we need to figure out what is important? Is tolerance, respect, compassion, and love for one's fellow human kindred spirit not more important than squabbling divisively over the scraps those wealthy individuals at the top have decided we should fight over.. whether it is religion, war, lines drawn on a map...

[FrenchieCat]

15. It is because of the birthrate of one group vs. the other.

Palestinian birthrate indicates that a one state solution
would become a Palestinian majority state very quickly...
and I don't believe that Jewish folks are willing to choose that option.

[Dragonfli]

22. No it is as simple as a land grab

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dragonfli]

31. Your position appears to be that all of the land is belong to Israel, I disagree, sorry if you hate

that. Only hate can justify the TOTAL land grab you propose. Me, I think since Palestine is the occupied rather than the occupier They should perhaps get some of the land in a two state solution, even native Americans get to have their small plots don't they? (even though manifest destiny and devine gifts are overlooked in my viewpoint as bullshit)

[Douglas Carpenter]

33. you are quoting the Kahanist website - the extremist right-wing racist organization founded by Meir

Kahane - an organization that has been condemned by both the Israeli government and the American government and listed as a terrorist organization by the FBI and condemned as violent, racist and extremist even by the ADL.

[ldf]

34. that is israel's land? says who?

the same omnipotent, omniscient god that should have known what violence and death he was creating when, through manipulation, he arranged for the jews to be "chosen", and the arabs to be bastards? if the arabs weren't, by default, bastards, then how could the jews be chosen? can anything be more heinous?

it is all a crock of shit.

that, in and of itself, negates any legitimacy of a belief in the "christian" god.

[glowing]

28. It has been shown that birth rates decline with justice and equality of women.

So, I would appeal that giving Palestinian women the freedoms of choice, education, family planning, and empowerment would actually reverse the trend of population spikes. It would greatly benefit the Jewish mothers and the Palestinian mothers to empower one another and reach for the similar goals of providing for one's family, coinciding in peace, educating their children, and looking to the future full of peace, rather than mortar shells.

Look at the United States, with all of its faults and many problems, we have freedom of religion. AND no we are not perfected and there are individual hate crimes, insensitivities, and discrimination that are still prevalent, however, we do not have regularly scheduled bombings at the bus stop or at schools, etc. Do we not, for the most part, have Jews and Muslims and Christians and even Atheists living side-by-side? The idea that people of different backgrounds can't peacefully reside beside one another is a fallacy. We do it every single day here in these United States. There is not one group (other than the 1% rich, robber barons) that have taken "over" the country. To me its kind of like saying: There can't ever be a black president because white people held them in slavery, and if one of them became the president, they would retaliate against the white people because of what white people did to black people in the past. If the nation coincided as one nation, should the Jewish people feel afraid if that a Palestinian was a head of state because they would retaliate against Jews for past offenses? If everyone had equal rights under the law, why would anyone fear a retaliation. The common goals as a country would bind them in their nationality. As it is now, the divisions are amplified and the fears ratcheted up and the ME, in general, is under a constant threat of war. AND now there are countries with nuclear capabilities within the hornets nest. I couldn't imagine that is the best way to live one's life. Fearing that going to the market could end with losing one's leg or arm or vision or even one's life.

We are spun constantly by the people who are funded by the wealthy and elite. Families that have been in monied power for a long time. People kind of joke about TPTB all the time, however, its true that they are the one's who invest in the politicians and the wars that directly effect individuals' lives. Look at this country, when we went to war in Iraq, propaganda and fear drove people to look past logic and pushed us into attacking a country that had done nothing to us. Who fights in these wars? Who pays for these wars? Who loses out from the death, destruction, and cost of wars? Who has profited? Who has gained power? Who has had to endure the most suffering and sacrifice from these wars?

United we Stand, Divided we Fall.. That little motto can clearly resinate across borders and throughout the world. Should the workers in China and the United States take a stand together and insist that they are treated with respect, dignity, humanity, and with profit sharing across the production of goods spectrum, we would have a good, strong trading partner that lifts people up.

I know I'm jumping around a bit. Speaking of a higher philosophical thought process. AND its not always easy to swallow pride, hurt, want for vengeance towards those who have done you harm. However, it has to start somewhere. Does anyone really want their children and their children's children still fighting the same battles? When does it end? It seems to me that all possibilities ought to be on the table to find peace. People should know peace and be able to live in peace.

[JoeyT]

35. Wow, that's the exact logic

white supremacists used when they insisted minorities shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Apparently demographic winter is an ok argument sometimes.

[FrenchieCat]

36. It's not my logic......

I'm neither Palestinian or Jewish, nor I am in agreement with the rationale, and actually have no opinion on the matter, precisely because so many others do. I posted about this when someone asked about a one state solution. What I wrote is what I have read and heard in various places as to why a one state solution is considered out of the question according to most Jews.

You can read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-state_solution

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/20/opinion/la-oe-kuttab20-2009dec20


:shrug:

[Poll_Blind]

25. That's nothing- JTA: The Israeli Knesset (parliament) to vote on annexing West Bank

From JTA:

JERUSALEM (JTA) -- The Knesset will vote on a bill calling for full Israeli annexation of the West Bank.

Deputy Speaker Danny Danon announced Tuesday that the Knesset will take up the bill, which he authored, at the end of October.

The bill also nullifies any financial obligations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority that had been established by previous agreements, according to a statement from Danon's office.

--snip--

The bill also nullifies the Oslo Accords, since it reads that “All obligations between the State of Israel and the Palestinian Authority as established by international agreements … will be considered null and void.”

Much more at the link.

Now, just step back for a second and consider that.

PB

[hifiguy]

27. Absolutely disgusting

and utterly predictable. And if they do it, all the Israelis will have to do to get the US to go along is yank on the leash a couple more times.

[Marrah_G]

32. And we keep handing them money.....

[Rex]

37. It is as predictable as Lucy, Charlie Brown and one football.