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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 05:27 PM
Original message
I Ordered Death in Georgia
Edited on Mon Sep-26-11 05:35 PM by FourScore
I Ordered Death in Georgia
By Allen Ault, The Daily Beast
25 September 11



Former Georgia Diagnostic and Classification Prison warden Allen Ault. (photo: Hollis Bennett/Getty Images)

I can't always remember their names, but in my nightmares I can see their faces. As the commissioner of the Georgia Department of Corrections from 1992 until 1995, I oversaw five executions. The first two were Thomas Dean Stevens and Christopher Burger, accomplices in a monstrous crime: as teenagers in 1977, they robbed and raped a cabdriver, put him in the trunk of a car, and pushed the vehicle into a pond. I had no doubt that they were guilty: they admitted it to me. But now it was 1993 and they were in their 30s. All these years later, after a little frontal-lobe development, they were entirely different people...

SNIP

...The state executed Stevens first, in June 1993, and then Burger in December. In both instances, I visited them in a cell next to the electric-chair chamber, where they counted down the hours until they died. They were calm, mature, and remorseful. When the time came, I went to a small room directly behind the death chamber where the attorney general worked the phones, checking with the courts to make sure that the executions were not stayed. Then we asked the prisoners for their final words. Stevens said nothing, and Burger apologized, saying, "Please forgive me." I looked to the prison electrician and ordered him to pull the switch. Last Wednesday, as the state of Georgia prepared to execute Troy Davis despite concerns about his guilt, I wrote a letter with five former death-row wardens and directors urging Georgia prison officials to commute his sentence. I feared not only the risk of Georgia killing an innocent man, but also the psychological toll it would exact on the prison workers who performed his execution. "No one has the right to ask a public servant to take on a lifelong sentence of nagging doubt, and for some of us, shame and guilt," we wrote in our letter.

SNIP

...Having witnessed executions firsthand, I have no doubts: capital punishment is a very scripted and rehearsed murder. It's the most premeditated murder possible. As Troy Davis's execution approached - and then passed its set hour, as the Supreme Court considered a stay - I thought of the terrible tension we all experienced as executions dragged into the late hours of the night. No one wanted to go ahead with the execution, but then a court stay offered little relief: you knew you were going to repeat the whole process and execute him sometime in the future.

I will always live with these images - with "nagging doubt," even though I do not believe that any of the executions carried out under my watch were mistaken. I hope that, in the future, men and women will not die for their crimes, and other men and women will not have to kill them. The United States should be like every other civilized country in the Western world and abolish the death penalty.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/275-42/7580-focus-i-ordered-death-in-georgia

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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Are the negative recs from people in favor of the DP?
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I doubt they even read it. n/t
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I read it and unrecced it. Having sympathy for Thomas Dean Stevens makes me ill.

Robbing, raping, driving the victim around in the trunk of his car, talking to people about killing him and then drowning him by pushing the car in a pond is not an impulse control problem. I can't imagine the terror and suffering the victim felt. Those are the actions of a depraved person who, yes a teen, was already in the US Army.

People like Troy Davis shouldn't be executed because of a lack of certainty, but when people ask me not to execute someone like Thomas Dean Stevens I cannot follow.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. There's a critical difference between punishment and justice.
As a punishment, the death penalty succeeds like no other. It can quench victims' and families' and society's thirst for vengeance. It ensures that the executed can never commit another crime (if he/she in fact committed a crime in the first place). The individual is permanently removed from society.

And that's about all the death penalty is good for. There's a saying: "when out for revenge, dig two graves."

For some crimes there can be no justice. That's a sad fact of life. But punishment does not equal justice, and committing murder to punish murder makes no sense to me.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I agree that punishment does not equal justice, but punishment is often an element of justice.

By my way of thinking, a death following due process of law is a restrained and proportional response to a heinous crime where we are certain of the identity of the guilty.

I do recognize that the above is debatable and many here disagree, but to simply call it vengeance or murder is also debatable and many people disagree.
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. This article is not about defending the indefensible.
It is about the people who have to carry out the death penalty. They, too, are committing murder and must live with the guilt. Even if the state murder is "justified" by the crime committed, it doesn't make it any easier for those who must carry out the sentence.

It might be remarkably easy for the general public to sit back and cheer it on; but would you, could you pull the switch on another individual after spending time with them in the final hours of their life? And, if so, could you then walk away without any psychological repercussions? I couldn't. Neither could the author of this piece.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. How about the two asshats that raped and murdered the Dr's wife
and daughters in Conn and then set the house on fire? One of them confessed that he forced the 11 year old to perform oral sex on him. Yeah, I could pull the switch on them and sleep very well, thank you.:evilgrin:
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Not me.
My OPINION of the (undoubtedly guilty, by all accounts) criminals is not important. I would not shed a tear if an "accident" befell them in prison. I might even be pleased to hear it. But that is private.

Public executions say way more about the society in which they are carried out.
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dddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
43. karma
I'm a firm believer.
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. Me too. I don't understand why others don't get that. n/t
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I have grown torn over the years for it
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 01:16 PM by Nordmadr
as a criminal punishment through our justice system. What is odd, and probably not very progressive of me is that I do seem to favor vengeance in these types of circumstances; most specifically when children are involved. As a father and husband I can only imagine the horror this doctor is experiencing. The loss, the guilt, the anger and depression. I would feel obligated to put these men in the ground, and would probably put myself in the ground soon after and hope that I could be back with my family somehow.

Like you, every time I see a story like that one, I think, yeah, I could kill those guys and sleep like a baby.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. You would murder to show you're the same as them?
Because that's what you would be doing. That's what the state does when it executes people for crimes. It's simply premeditated murder in the name of the state.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
36. I could do it too.
But I am uncomfortable with what that says about me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. Go to bed now..
:rofl: before your dad gets home.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
41. We ask people to do difficult things that have enormous consequences all the time

I sympathize with the warden and others who are troubled with having carried out their duties to execute, but that was the job they chose.



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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Agree to disagree.
The concept of "justice" is deeply nuanced. I believe there are cases where only a small measure of justice can be achieved, be that by lifetime incarceration or death of the guilty.

I cannot agree that the death of the murderer is an appropriate restitution for the crime. Proportional? Possibly. Restrained? Define, please.

Peace to you.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Yes, I think we at the point of where we will agree to disagree.

I appreciate your noninflammatory language.


I say that state sanctioned killing after due process is restrained because it is not hasty, many appeals are considered, and modern methods of death is almost always quicker and gentler than the manner of death that led to the conviction.
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bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. You want to hire someone to murder for you, in certain circumstances.
That's the short of it. Your sanitized language hides a monstrous act. That's the point of the article.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Hiding a monstrous act? I think not.
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bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Do you think murder, premeditated murder, is not a monstrous act?
If you do, I certainly hope that you influence no-one. That position would be entirely immoral, in my view.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Yes, but I don't classify executions as murder.

Murder is a killing that is not authorized or justified under the law.


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bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #32
45. Your careful parsing of language is the problem, not the solution.
The situation would be clearer for you, I would conjecture, if you imagined you had to do the deed yourself. This "classification" process obscures the nature of the act. That's the point of the article, and you refuse to see it. I'm told all humans have mirror neurons, but sometimes it's not so clear.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Your snide comments aside, we won't convince each other of changing our positions.

Nevertheless it is good to air out our positions.



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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. I'm with you on this. nt
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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. if you are pro death penalty, then ultimately you have a fundamental flaw in your humanity
So follows that the same applies to the USA as a whole. It is pure barbarism, no matter what the condemned did. No exceptions.

:thumbsdown:
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Perhaps, but perhaps it is you with the flaw in your humanity.

Its not everyone who can coddle a heinous criminal.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
48. No. It makes you an inhuman monster.
I now know everything I will ever need to know about you. Welcome to my ignore list.

You monster.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Anti-DP folks usually condemn pro-DP folks for dehumanizing criminals by calling them monsters.
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 08:10 PM by aikoaiko
I suppose the rhetorical trick works for them, too. Thank you for demonstrating the hypocrisy.


edited a bit.




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Major Nikon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
59. Amazing how people still use such obvioius tripe these days
Ranks right up there with other famous rock hard moronic phrases like...

Love it or leave it

Better dead than red

You're either with us or against us

For further reading, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Enjoy!
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
64. +1 nt
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Who expressed sympathy for Stevens?
Do you think that putting someone in a cage for the rest of his life is an act of kindness?

Abolishing the death penalty is the right thing to do, not for the damage it does to the executed, but for the damage it does to the executioner.

When "We the People" execute someone, we ALL are guilty.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. "after a little frontal-lobe development, they were entirely different people."


This is a sympathetic statement to me.

You asked:
Do you think that putting someone in a cage for the rest of his life is an act of kindness?

My response:
When they deserve death, then yes.

You wrote:
Abolishing the death penalty is the right thing to do, not for the damage it does to the executed, but for the damage it does to the executioner.
When "We the People" execute someone, we ALL are guilty.

Lots of people have profound regrets about their jobs and the impact their decisions have on other lives. Individuals have a responsibility to follow their own ethical standards. Not everyone weeps for the guilty when they are punished within bounds of the law. But yes, I can see how executions can take their toll on people who do so without conviction.


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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. They take their greatest toll on society as a whole.
Why do you think every civilized nation in the world has abolished it?
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I'm not sure why most other countries do not do it.


Clearly the recent US moratorium on the DP also took a toll on the voting citizenry because our representatives brought it back.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. You ae confused. The 'recent' moratorium was between 1967 and 1977
- it ended 34 years ago - and it was not 'brought back' by 'our representatives' but the moratorium was ended by a ruling by the Supreme Court that it was constitutional.

it would appear you don't know what you are talking about.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. As I recall there were changes to the state laws that made it constitutional.
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 04:54 PM by aikoaiko
You know those state laws created by our representatives.

I'm sure you knew that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_v._Georgia
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Tom Ripley Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. An interesting tidbit about that case is Troy Leon Gregg escaped from the death house...
the night before his execution. He died later that night in a biker bar fight. Strange, but true.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. That is interesting.

thanks.
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Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
56. Once again, another stupid "Only if we are super duper sure" pro death comment....
Do you know how dumb that sounds?
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #56
57.  Degree of certainty has a major role in our justice system whether you like it or not.


I don't know why this concept sounds dumb to you.
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Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Because EVERY jury is 100% sure but wrong many times. If the person is dead....
Then sort of hard to fix the mistake! Read about the innocence project and educate yourself!
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. I'm not so sure that EVERY jury is 100% sure, only beyond a reasonable doubt.

The author cited in the OP is making the case that executions shouldn't happen even when we are certain. I don't respect that argument.

I do respect the argument that the DP should not be used because mistakes get made.

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Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Define "certain"! And appeal courts upheld the execution! They were "certain" also!
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. I would define certainty as the absence of any doubt.
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 11:04 PM by aikoaiko

I didn't want Troy Davis convicted either. It was a travesty of justice.

You can have the last word if you want it.

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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh, boo hoo
It takes a real man to execute people, and some testicular fortitude to do it when there are reasonable doubts or even the possibility of flat-out innocence. You quit executing people, and pretty soon you start questioning whether every last criminal prosecution was handled flawlessly. And if you start doing that, you start wondering just what kind of a justice system executes Troy Davis but only charges Manuel Ramos with involuntary manslaughter.

Nagging doubts are for sissies, not real American he-men!
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teddy51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. That was an execellent observation from Allen Ault, and not the first Prison
Edited on Mon Sep-26-11 05:56 PM by teddy51
official to have serious doubts about Capital Punishment. My best friend was former Assistant Warden at a Maximum Security Prison. He expressed similar doubts as Allen Ault does about prison staff having to be responsible for the deed. In many cases (years later) is when it shows up in the form of Depression and other mental states.

I am totally against the DP and always have been!
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Please sign this pledge to end the death penalty. In Troy's name.
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. kick
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. I have mixed feelings about the death penalty
But in some cases, I feel it is necessary. The problem, though, is that people sit on death row for years and years, like these two guys, and by the time capital punishment is carried out, they've had the threat of it hanging over them for years.

To be honest, however, the two that committed the rape and murder of the cab driver may have had some frontal lobe development as the man put it and were different people, but that is only because they knew they were facing their fate for the crime. If they hadn't been facing it, and perhaps instead had just gone to jail for life, they may not have become remorseful. I don't know - both situations are pretty horrific. It's horrific for them to commit the crime, and horrific for us as a society to have to deal with the fallout of such a crime, including getting justice for it.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. Interesting
You state towards the end of your piece "...I don't know..."

But right before that, "...but that is only because they knew they were facing their fate for the crime."

How do you know one for certainty and the rest you don't know?
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
46. Why is it necessary?
For revenge? For justice? For deterrence? To prevent recidivism?

:shrug:
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&R!
Thanks for posting this. :hi:
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
12. Democracy Now had recordings of Georgia's death chamber from the '90s.
The guard in charge, would broadcast on a walkie-talkie continuously giving a blow by blow description of the events unfolding. It included voltages currently being used, if smoke was present or not, if the inmate was dead yet or not, and if they had to do it again.

Very grisly.

Amy Goodman broadcast several of them.
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tropicanarose Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. Wow....a really powerful piece. We won't ever forget you, Troy.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
15. Wow. That was excellent.
It has me weeping. Well written and very thoughtful.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
25. REC. Thank you for posting this moving and eloquent commentary. nt
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. is this the guy who was on Rachel Maddo show last week ?
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. Yes. I think so
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 05:51 PM by Lucinda
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
37. Fuck the death penalty
PERIOD
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rbnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
39. Thanks so much for posting this...
...and also for introducing me to rsn.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
54. Too late to recommend or I would have been at least 100.
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. 101. I got here too late too. Powerful article. n/t
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