Coffee, Social Pressure and Predators

[BanzaiBonnie]

A couple of days ago, I was in one of our local grocery stores to pick up a coffee at the Starbucks stand. As I was busy counting out my change, the clerk asked me if I had my personal shopping card. I told her I didn’t want to bother with that and proceeded to dig more change out of my purse. When she asked me for my phone number so she could enter it into their system, I looked up.

Her name tag said, Amanda. When I explained to Amanda that I wasn’t going to give her my phone number, it seemed just too silly a thing to bother with for just a coffee, the look on her face alerted me that she might actually start crying. I asked if I had to give my number in order to buy the coffee. “No, you don’t, but we’ll get in trouble if we can’t get your card number or phone number.” I again refused to give my phone number and I told her to just let management know that the customer refused. That should be enough. She was definitely shaking at that point.

“There are no excuses. We’ve been told there are no excuses and we will get in trouble for any customer exchange without the accompanying information”. I assured her that it was going to be okay because at this point I was going to give the manager a call to let him know I had refused her request. She had followed store policy and it was through no fault of hers that I was being uncooperative. Before I left, I got the name of the manager and I left her with my promise to call him on Monday morning as soon as I thought he would be in. She was still shaking.

Just before I left the stand, another clerk stepped up next to me when she heard the store managers name mentioned and asked if there was a problem. I let her know that there was nothing Amanda had done wrong, she was only following orders. It was the fact that I didn’t want to share my information with this store or any other over a coffee on Sunday morning. Neither do I want them to know how many miles I drive, where I drive to or from, or when I go to the bathroom. We are being tracked every time we go out and I just said no to it.

I was wondering if the intrusiveness of the whole consumer system knows any bounds at all. Just last week, we heard how OnStar was still collecting data from their devices and would sell that information to anyone willing to pay for it. Even if the car owner had the device off or was not subscribed to the service, they are still being tracked and data collected.

And before that I heard the story of a truck driver who, shortly after a bathroom break, received a text message on his phone asking him if the bathrooms were satisfactory at XYZ Truck Stop. He hppened to have the XYZ gas card in his pocket when he walked past a card reader on his way into the bathroom. Wasn’t that thoughtful of them to ask about the conditions he found there? He has since given them their card back. He does not want the world to know when or where he uses the bathroom.

The thing that stood out to me about my interaction at the grocery store Starbucks was how social pressure was brought to bear. Humans are inherently cooperative beings. I’m a nice person and if I didn’t want the clerk to get in trouble, I should have just shut my mouth and given her my phone number. I should have been obedient to the system.

Today, all the major chain stores use some sort of reward system to gather information about our buying habits. We have been trained through rewards to give our information willingly. We have been socially conditioned to accept this system, because everyone does it. You can’t get the store specials if you don’t accept this system. You are paid a few precious pennies so the corporate body has your personal shopping information.

This morning, I had a manager tell me it’s perfectly harmless. They only use the information so they can tell what’s sold off their shelves. The implication was that they are collecting data so they can serve me better. It’s for my own good. Right. I don’t believe it. That manager was either naive or lying. If what the manager said was true, if it was only a way to track their products, they wouldn’t need my number attached to it. No. They are tracking MY buying habits.

It was the word tracking that helped me uncover my basic discomfort with the whole idea. Predators track the habits of their prey. I don’t want to be tracked. I don’t want to be in the corporate crosshairs. I choose to hold my privacy where I can, in this brave new world.

And it leaves me wondering; why should we trust that the information gathered by corporations will be used for the good? Until such time, I’ve decided to opt out. It’s not worth feeling like I’ve sold my soul.

[Schema Thing]

1. Sometimes passion leads to prevarication

[defendandprotect]

2. I'm always amazed that so many give out this info -- like zip codes -- when asked by clerks ...

and the clerks are given these "survey" jobs without any additional compensation for

doing that work --

It's all nonsense -- but it part of the insanity of how we got where we are today --

and why we should all be dragging our feet on this silliness.

[Brickbat]

12. I always give the ZIP code of the local correctional center, which has its own.

:evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

15. Funny -- Love it - !!

[FredStembottom]

3. Perfectly stated, BBonnie.

This is an issue that is just going to grow and grow in the next few years.
:patriot:

[supernova]

4. I give out fake info

The clerk doesn't get into trouble, the requirements of the transaction are momentarily satisfied. I know at dept stores like Macy's and Penny's clerks are givent bonuses for store card sign ups. And like you I don't want to be tracked about every thing I buy. But you are right, we customers should be letting management know that this kind of info gathering is not without limits or limits on the uses for data already collected.

[RT Atlanta]

8. Me too

I use the zip code from where I lived 10 years ago and for phone numbers, it's always local area code and "555-1212"

Using the foregoing, "everyone wins" - I'm not pestered and the clerk can enter something.

[Nancy Waterman]

5. I hope Amanda didn't get fired for this

They could be angry about her telling you that she would get in trouble just as much as
for her not getting your information.

[seabeyond]

14. we dont want to give info but with guilt at the expense of another's job, they control us to?

and you are ok with that?

[Quantess]

19. There is no way that the OP is the only person who has refused to give out his/her phone number.

Simply, no way. They would have a 2 day turnover of employees if they fired someone for not getting a phone number. I wonder if the OP had an especially harsh demeanor, and that's why she looked like she might cry? That, or she's a 17 year old.

[Chan790]

24. Been through this...

they don't fire, they "retrain". They continue to retrain those who fail to improve until they get pissed off enough to quit.

It's a nasty little game...retraining is unpleasant and because they can classify it as non-punitive and work-educational, they can make you do it at their convenience, on your time, without pay. Is a crappy minimum-wage job at the contractor that runs in-store and airport S'bux worth giving up 4 hours on a day-off...repeatedly?

It's easier to create a stock tracking persona to fuck with the system...whenever I sign up for one of those discount cards, I give them the email/phone/address of my employer, random age data...I also arranged a swap with friends. You know how they give you like 3 cards? One wallet card and two key-tags? We exchange them...I have no idea what CVS is taking away from me buying anti-RA meds, condoms and fiber, one friend buying pregnancy tests and fertility meds, another's purchases of junk food and his wife's prescriptions for thalomid for her skin condition, birth control pills and anti-epileptics. I do know that my pharmacist is concerned though about my usage of multiple BC options, being as I'm a 30 year old male...also that I have a great deal of yellow drug-interaction flags in the d-base.

Likewise, I'm amused to know what Giant takes from my club card's purchases of vegan-burgers and lamb.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. This is missing the point I understand, but couldn't Amanda have simply

reported that this particular customer didn't possess a Starbuck's card? Or would that have started a new controversy with Amanda being pushed to hoist such a registration on BanzaiBonnie?

Geez, it's getting complicated to just go in and buy a lousy cup of Joe.

[closeupready]

7. Incredibly thoughtful post; would K&R 1000 times if I could.

People may not agree with your feelings, but nobody can argue that you didn't think long and hard about it, and base your decision on well-grounded logic and reasoning.

And by the way, I DO agree with you, though I likely would have lied about my phone number and pulled one out of my hat for her. Or simply given her my previous land-line number, which I dropped years ago, but still remember what it was.

[MadHound]

9. It has gotten to the point where one has to purposefully go out of your way to remain anonymous

I've encountered the same things you have. Radio Shack wants my phone number, I tell them no, and what is interesting is that some of the clerks have even thought about getting belligerent about it. If a clerk starts to harangue me about not giving out personal info, I drop the product on the counter and go.

Cards are now ubiquitous for a lot of stores. Book stores, grocery stores, hardware stores, etc. etc. I don't have any, and have to endure looks of confusion the clerks when I say I don't want one.

But probably the biggest information gathering instrument out there is one that most folks don't even think of, their cell phone. It can, and is being used to track your movements. Back in the late ninties when Clinton authorized that all cell phones have a GPS chip in them, it wasn't to help locate you if you were in an emergency, though that was the stated purpose. Nope, it was to track you down, wherever you are, and that capability is being used today. More and more urban areas are using people's cell phones to keep track of where you are for "traffic control" purposes. Phones are also used to eavesdrop on conersations (a practice that has received favorable rulings from various courts), keep track of your various data information, and find out who your wider circle of friends and contacts are.

It has become such that a person has to work at remaining anonymous. Ditch the cell, the cards, don't give out any info, etc. etc.

What a sad Orwellian society we've turned into.

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. Give 'em fake info

Better yet find a few friends that also patronize this Starbucks and get your friends to give 'em the same fake info.

[NV Whino]

11. On the other hand...

Trader Joes in Santa Rosa asked for my zip code every time I went there for about a year. Within another year, we had a TJs in the Napa Valley. (Santa Rosa also got a second store at the other end of the city.)

Safeway, however, is just a P.I.A. with their "rewards" card. I do get a laugh when I think that about the only thing they track is my consumption of toilet paper.

[Spike89]

21. My safeway card info is bogus, and my "name" is not polite...

It works just fine, most of the checkers at my local store recognize me and don't bother looking for my name (they are supposed to glance at the name printed on the receipt and pretend they know our names). To be honest, I don't recall what "alias" I used, but it was something Beavis and Butthead would have laughed at. Almost immediately (at most 2-3 visits) the name stopped appearing on the receipts. My guess is someone in Safeway IT cleaned the name field out, but had sympathy for my little rebellion. Oh, the address and phone numbers aren't real either.

Despite the "fun" of getting around these tracking efforts, it really is getting more and more bothersome and more difficult to do without sometimes feeling like a jerk.

[caduceus111]

29. Hopefully you pay cash only.

If you use your debit/credit card to make a purchase, the grocery chains can associate your name with the grocery card. Could be why your "alias" disappeared.

Lovely, isn't it?

[Gormy Cuss]

13. Providing a phone number is consent to their data mining.

Unlike a ZIP code, a phone number is a limited enough identifier for marketers to add to the reams of profiling data they accumulate about your buying habits AND if they also have your name as part of the purchase, your other demographic data. It's not a benign request.

I always decline. I've never had a clerk try to guilt me into providing it the way the OP described but that still wouldn't work for me. I have had clerks alert nearby managers and I've declined to them as well. I've found that the most effective way to handle it is to say to both clerks and managers that I understand that providing a phone number enables better profiling of me and I'm not interested in aiding retailers in that quest. If either hands me the load of bull about enhancing my shopping experience, I tell them that I'll enhance it by shopping at a store that doesn't ask for my telephone number.

Providing the telephone number may also increase nuisance telemarketing calls because it establishes a business relationship with the company (and all of its affiliates.) An existing business relationship exempts the business from honoring the Do Not Call list.

[jberryhill]

16. I always just say "no" instead of lecturing the clerk

Amanda was clearly going to be reamed for not getting your phone number.

Getting it from both ends must really suck.

[BanzaiBonnie]

25. I did not "lecture" the clerk.

I was reassuring her that she was not going to get in trouble.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tritsofme]

18. I'm sure the cashier would have been plenty happy if you just gave your number as 123-456-7890

They usually get the point.

[bemildred]

20. Lie. nt

[kudzu22]

22. "I don't have a phone"

If they press, tell them you're Amish.

[LeftinOH]

23. "My phone number is 555-9876" (fake number). The end.

[customerserviceguy]

28. No, better than that is

(your area code)-328-7442.

If they get that enough times, they might figure out that it spells "EAT-SHIT".

[NeedleCast]

26. I can see where you're coming from, but don't completely agree

For example, I feel being tracked by my grocery store is pretty harmless. Yes, it gives them information about my buying habits, information they could potentially sell to others, but I don't mind that out of hand, as long as the information is not personal in nature (and I wouldn't provide that information beyond my name and address anyway). If the store knows what I buy it gives them better ability to control inventory and have in stock the things that i want.

People are careless about the information they give out sometimes and it does allow predators to take advantage of them, but at the same time, I think some of what you said is a little paranoid in nature.

[L0oniX]

27. Give them a fake phone number 666-666-6666.