Hasn't Ralph Nader done enough damage?

[LoZoccolo]

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-09-21/opinion/opinion_brazile-nader-primary_1_ralph-nader-faulty-premise-bush-cheney?_s=PM:OPINION

[G_j]

1. unrec eom

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

3. .

Auto-unrecc, IBTL, IBS, pps, LOL! :rofl:

[LoZoccolo]

4. What does "IBS" stand for? n/t

[OhioChick]

8. Irritable Bowel Syndrome n/t

[griffi94]

5. damage?

how? by running. he can't make anybody vote for him.
he knows he's not going to win as do the people who would vote for him. those voters probly wouldn't vote for obama anyway, so i don't see how it causes any damage.

[City Lights]

6. Another love-hate relationship for you, eh LoZ?

:rofl:

UNREC!

[mmonk]

7. He might stop when the Blue Dogs do.

[Trajan]

9. UNREC

from an Obama supporter ....

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ohheckyeah]

11. Not this shit again. n/t

[trueblue2007]

20. it is NADER"S FAULT that Bush was able to steal the election. NADER SUCKS

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Take a good look at these guys

They are far more responsible. I could use small words to try to explain it but the selective memory is just insane.

[libinnyandia]

53. Nader works well with others

One thing I have learned as I have read the arguments about Nader's legacy is: Nader works well with others. Mr. Nader worked with progressive politicians and activists to pass legislation and create progressive institutions. He did not do it alone, he worked with others. However, Mr.Nader also worked with Republican politicians and activists. As a result, it was possible for the SCOTUS to give George W Bush the presidency. He did not do it alone, but he worked with others to bring about that result. His legacy will include Mr Bush's legacy. It is sad but true.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Take a good look at those guys again

Then educate yourself on CIA takeover techniques...no, similarities are not coincidental.

[Lucian]

39. Yeah, forget the Supreme Court had anything to do with it.

:eyes:

Idiotic post.

[PSPS]

12. "Donna Brazile" isn't being honest in her diatribe.

I didn't vote for Nader, but I do respect him. Anyone laying blame on Nader for having Bush installed is just rewriting history to suit their own goals. In this case, it's Brazile's need to fill a column with something. Her piece here is festooned with inaccuracies:

In 2000, he siphoned enough votes from Al Gore in Florida to swing the election to President Bush. It gave us eight years of Bush-Cheney politics and policies.

False. The fix was in. The Supreme Court halted the vote counting and installed Bush illegally. Add to that Gore's refusal to pursue the matter. With or without Nader, we were going to get Bush foisted upon us.

A primary challenge could further divide the party and possibly dampen Democratic enthusiasm.

False. It's Obama who has divided the party and dampened Democratic enthusiasm. If President Obama had turned out to be even remotely similar to Candidate Obama (or what Obama supporters thought Candidate Obama to be,) we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. What is sardonically humorous is that now we have Candidate Obama on the 2012 stump again and some people are still falling for it.

Bush policies allowed predatory lenders to dupe families seeking mortgages for homes.

False. If someone wants a house they can't afford and is offered a mortgage that is too good to be true (no money down, stated income far higher than actual income, liar's loan, NINJA, "pick a pay" etc.,) that isn't "getting duped." That's called "a buyer trying to buy more than they can afford and getting caught." They never should have taken out the mortgage because they knew they really couldn't afford it if they had to make real PITA payments.

Obama took over an economy that was shedding 750,000 jobs every month. He came into office with the nation in two wars and with crumbling bridges and superhighways, a health insurance system financially crippling middle class families, plus multiple other domestic maladies.

And Obama continues the very same policies that produce this result: More "Free Trade" agreements (contrary to what was said by Candidate Obama,) refusal to even make a public option (as promised by Candidate Obama) part of the discussion, and this list could go on and on. I suppose this is a modern version of "but he's only been in office <fill in time elapsed since 1/2009>."

Anyway, I don't have any problem with a primary challenger. The right primary challenger could easily win the nomination and the general election. But I don't know of anyone who has the credentials and (believable) platform who wants to enter the race. So I don't think there will be any, which dooms us to Bush's fourth term regardless of who is elected president next year.

[Rex]

42. People that rewrite history must like Karl Rove and his minions.

Since it seems to be in favor of GWB, one has to wonder why a self-professed liberal would defend the BFEE with such fervor. Rewriting history seems to be the GOPs favorite thing to do, it is pathetic that Dems do it too.

[demosincebirth]

13. Not yet. His bank accounts must be getting close to empty.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

14. Ralph needs more money to bust his unions

nt

[Better Believe It]

28. More nonsense and falsehoods. Credible links please.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

52. I'll do you better than that -- let's go dollar for dollar okay?

Here we go now.

A DU link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x382863

"Ralph talks big about democracy and even unions. But when his own workers at one of his magazines, Multinational Monitor, got fed up with cruel working conditions and started agitating for a union of their own, Nader busted the union with all of the hardball techniques used by corporate owners across America. Workers at Public Citizen, another Nader group, also tried to form a union because of 60 to 80 hour work weeks, salaries that ranged from $13,000 down, and other difficult working conditions and were blocked by Nader, who remains unapologetic to this day.
Nader says "I don't think there is a role for unions in small nonprofit 'cause' organizations any more than ... within a monastery or within a union." "

Wanna apologize now?

[Better Believe It]

56. That link has been totally discredited. But of course, you alread knew that, didn't you?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Well, he sure seemed to have given you a permanent brain wedgie.

[hfojvt]

16. she is wrong in a couple of ways

First, to keep talking about Florida is wrong. As a Gore campaign manager she should know that. The election was not just decided in Florida. It was decided in New Hampshire, and Iowa, and Oregon, and New Mexico and Wisconsin. If Gore wins New Hampshire, then he wins, irregardless of Florida. The Nader voters could have easily given Gore New Hampshire. Further though, if Gore isn't robbed of Florida, but loses New Mexico, Iowa, Oregon or Wisconsin, then he loses, irregardless of Florida. Nader voters could have easily cost Gore all of those states. http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/118

Second, she uses current rhetoric as if it is some kind of accomplishment. His current tax proposals are likely to fade like the summer breeze before Republican and Blue Dog opposition.

Third, she keeps conflating a primary challenge with a 3rd party challenge. She does not seem to see, that if a primary challenge is not allowed, then people have no other way to express their disgust than by a 3rd party vote. Nader could have run in the primary in 2000 or supported Bradley without giving Bush the election.

Fourth, she mixes various issues. I make the case that Obama has not fought for the bottom 90%. Sure he made a number of speeches calling for higher taxes on the rich, but when it came time to actually fight for them, he refused to do so, even though he held the trump card. Instead he flipped, and started fighting FOR tax cuts for the rich. Now his economic stimulus proposes even more, AND he still keeps siding with the gang of six and using Republican talking points about taxes and about entitlements.

And when you talk about fighting for the bottom 90%, then other things don't really count. She praises him for the end of DADT, but that does nothing for most of the bottom 90%. She praises him for the Fair Pay act, but that only helps SOME, not all of the bottom 90%. Those are identity politics, when the President needs to focus on class politics. At least, that is my complaint with him.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[Edweird]

18. What's the problem? 7098980980324% of "Liberals" love Obama. He's gonna coast to victory.

He doesn't need anyone that's unhappy or disaffected because they are such a teeny-tiny fringe minority that they can be dismissed after being mocked.

You just to "chill the fuck out" 'cause Obama's "got this!"

Right?

[Union Scribe]

31. Great post. But I think it's down to 7098980980321% now

I'm told the slight dip is due to "liberal electoral racists".

[Edweird]

37. Oh, but all the 'centrists' more than make up for that!

[treestar]

48. Complain about being mocked will mocking others.

Official Republicanish Hypocrisy.

Enough of this whining about being "mocked." If that's the worst thing that happens to you . .

[Edweird]

50. Anything to play the "U R teh republicanz" card, huh? I'm not complaining or whining.

I'm actually excited about being able to vote for the candidate that best represents me. Obama and numerous posters here have made it clear that my vote is not needed or even, it seems, wanted. That's cool with me since that whole 'lesser of two evils' business is a bunch of crap. I'm mocking the OP for whining about Nader when Obama's "got this", understand?

I am, however, chilling a mug of STFU for November 2012. I want to be sure it's nice and frosty since I believe that beverage is best served ice cold.

Cheers

[LWolf]

19. He hasn't done any damage, so your question, not surprisingly, is nonsensical. nt

[LoZoccolo]

23. It's not my question. n/t

[Rex]

24. Pretty much just like all of his other threads.

[LWolf]

49. Yep. And "it's not his question."

:eyes:

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. Haven't some people done enough whining about Nader?

:shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

30. Have you asked the same about negative Obama threads? n/t

[Union Scribe]

32. Isn't Obama a more prominent figure?

Surely you don't think that Nader and Obama warrant the same amount of discussion? Your threads aside, of course.

[LoZoccolo]

35. Would you like to figure out the ratio for me? n/t

[Union Scribe]

40. You really don't get why more discussion would/should be about the POTUS

than about Nader? Aren't DUers who are, er, sympathetic to your position on him constantly saying he's irrelevant anyway? So why wouldn't there be more talk, good or ill, about what Obama's doing?

[LoZoccolo]

45. If we're going to talk about appropriate limits, why not propose some? n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. Would you like to see a change to the Constitution of the United States of America?

Would you like the Constitution to limit those who can seek the office to people officially annointed by the Republican or Democratic parties, and no others?

Last I heard, the office was open to anyone who is a natural born citizen that has reached the age of thirty-five years and has lived in the United States for fourteen years.

Do you want that to change? I think you do.

[LoZoccolo]

34. Would you like to remove my first-amendment right to criticize? n/t

[frylock]

38. see post 30

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1996933#1997550

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Convenient how you forget these guys

And of course the USSC.

It was a coup, a well org a used coup. I'll take Nader over Donna Brazille. And for the record Gore took it all the way he could short of taking up arms.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[gulliver]

33. Nope. He has Munchausen's.

He'll save the country if it kills it.

[frylock]

36. your obsession with ralph nader is getting downright creepy..

big mistake taking you off ignore.

[the other one]

41. The Daily Hate!

Nader!

[Autumn]

43. Not as much as blue dogs have done

I'll take Ralph over any blue dog at any time.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[leeroysphitz]

46. Nope. The two party system is as strong as ever.

[treestar]

47. Yes.

[Capitalocracy]

51. Thank You!

This is the first time I've seen you put text in your post instead of just a header. It may be just a link, but it's an improvement. Thanks, bro!

[Bluebear]

54. Is this about Nader killing Troy Davis again?

[SwampG8r]

57. i guess you dont think so

you have been swinging him around by the feet trying to cause damage all week

[Zorra]

58. Katherine Harris is giggling. nt