I call Bullshit on David Brooks new piece in the NYT- Amateur sports.

[trumad]

"Quarterback Cam Newton was investigated for violating the amateur rules. Meanwhile, there were at least 15 corporate logos on the uniform he wore every week".

There's usually one corp sponsor on a college uniform and it's a sponsor that provides the Uniforms. 15? Seriously Brooks?

BTW: The arrow looking badge is for the SEC... The H looking logo is for Under Armour---the corp sponsor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/opinion/the-amateur-ideal.html?hp

[Enrique]

1. blames the left for the corporate domination of sports

he's a clever one. :eyes:

Today's left-leaning historians generally excoriate the amateur ideal for its snobbery and the hypocrisy it engendered. The movie "Chariots of Fire" popularized their critique. In the film, the upholders of the amateur ideal are snobbish, anti-Semitic reactionaries. The heroes are unabashedly commercial and practical. Modern and free-thinking, they pay people so they can win.

Thus did the left-wing critique welcome the corporate domination of sport.

[trumad]

2. And he lies his ass off about Newton...

As soon as I read 15 logos on a college jersey I knew he was full of shit.

[Recursion]

28. He didn't say 15 on the jersey, he said on the uniform

And they've been circled in pictures downthread. Your problem seems to be that you're counting all the appearances of UA as "one logo".

[Johonny]

46. why does someone that knows shit about life, football get to writer about it?

Most football historians will point out in the early days colleges openly paid their players. Their was no amateur ideal for snobbery. The dude should watch the Marx Brothers movie "Horse Feathers" to see how people of the day viewed college football and it's purity. It wasn't until the Republican era of the 50s that the NCAA cracked down on paying players behind the scenes and created the mythos that was that college sports was some pure amateur sport. This dude knows SHIT about football, life and so why the fuck does he get to be in newspapers writing again?

[underpants]

3. Brooks is a republican - he can't count

he must be counting the UnderArmor logo but I don't think there are 15 of them.

Brooks also somehow has been morphed into a liberal in the RW world. Limpbaugh has cited his works repeatedly of late (the "I'm a sap" piece in particular) of proof that even "David Brooks of the NEW YORK TIMES" has turned on Obama. :eyes:

[JHB]

4. In fairness, bulls probably generate less bullshit than Brooks...

...and they have to work harder for less just to get it out there.

[TomClash]

5. Nicely done nt

[CTyankee]

6. This type of drivel from Brooks is why I don't bother with his column any more.

The man is supposed to be so brilliant. If he would take his eyes off his own navel he might find out what a stupid jerk he is...

[IndyPragmatist]

7. 15 logos isn't far off...

Shirt logo, two visor logos, helmet logo, pants logo, 2 shoe logos (one on each, if not more), possible sock logos, towel logo (not wearing one in the pictures, but I remember Cam using a towel during a game or two), mouthpiece logo?(I had one in HS with a logo on it),

I count 10 logos.

Maybe he wore gloves in some games, so add another 2 logos.

I notice the defender has a logo on his arm band, so maybe Cam does as well, and he is wearing 4 bands, so maybe 4 more.

I can see how he got to 15.

[madinmaryland]

8. Those pesky little facts just happen to get in the way of the OP...

I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like Brooks may be correct, albeit, accidentally.

[trumad]

10. Dude---you can't be fucking serious...

Find me a picture of Newton with 10 corporate logos...or 15 that Brooks says he has.

And you know sports?

[madinmaryland]

12. Hey. The comment was 15 corporate logos. As IP pointed out above there

may well be 15 corporate logos (not to be confused with 15 different corporation's logos). Now I'm going to have to read Brooks' column to see what relevance your comment has to his column.

:mad:

[trumad]

13. Nice try....

[trumad]

11. Tick tock

Can't find that picture can you?

I imagine you're scanning Google images looking for one and saying---shit... there aint any.

[madinmaryland]

16. Hey...

It seems that you have clarified your original comment to distinguish between 15 different corporation's logos and 15 corporate logos. As you can see on the attached picture there are between 9 and 11 corporate logos, though they are mostly if not all the same corporate logo.

[trumad]

20. You two fucking dudes are hilarious.

First off...is this CAMs uni?

No.

There aint no clarification on my part.

I count one corporate log on Cams unit. Under Armour.

One.

[Recursion]

27. Which appears 15 different times. Also, Auburn and the SEC are both corporations (nt)

Yes, most of the 15 seem to be the same logo, UnderArmor, but you're counting all 15 appearances as "one logo".

[krawhitham]

29. You need to read better

Quarterback Cam Newton was investigated for violating the amateur rules. Meanwhile, there were at least 15 corporate logos on the uniform he wore every week.

the article says "at least 15 corporate logos" not 15 different corporate logos

Under Armour pays the SEC to NOT have other corporate logos on the uniforms. That is why the towel attached to players have Under Armour logos on it while any towel grabbed from the bench has Gatorade all over it, Gatorade pays for SEC for that too

[trumad]

32. No---you need to read better.

He was clearly implying 15 different logos.

[Recursion]

34. No, he just wasn't

Plain English. "15 corporate logos". Not "the logos of 15 different corporations"

[krawhitham]

25. 16 logos with images

6 - 3 on each shoe (front side, tongue, back side
2 - 1 on each sock
4 on helmet
2 - 1 on each wrist band
1 on chest
1 on pants

this image shows helmet, chest, wrist band & pants


Shoes & Socks

[trumad]

9. bullshit

I took the Newton picture as an example.

There's one corporate logo. Under Armour.

Find me a picture of a college uni with 15 logos.

[KatyMan]

17. I dont think manufacturer's logs count really

I drove in to work this morning with probably 6 corporate logos on my car, all of them saying FORD, but Ford doesn't pay me or sponser me to drive.

[joeglow3]

30. But, UnderArmor DOES pay the SEC and their schools

Thus, you example is not a valid one.

[IndyPragmatist]

18. Here you go

Using the pictures.

1 Jersey logo (underarmour)
2 Visor logos (underarmour)
1 Helmet logo (Ridell on chin strap, Auburn covers the front logo with the "Tigers" on the forehead)
1 pants logo
2 shoe logos
6 sweat band logos (4 on arms, 2 on legs)

I couldn't find a towel picture with a logo, so maybe Auburn used a generic towel.

So there is 13 logos. Pretty close to the 15 logos he claimed, there may have been a game where Cam Newton had that many.

[trumad]

21. Oh you guys crack me up

So you're saying the Tiger decal is a corporate logo?

Bullshit and nice try.

I count one corporate logo on the uniform.... Under Armour.

I'll give you the Riddell name on the chin strap.

Brooks said corporate Logo(s).

And you and madinmaryland know god damn well that infers different companies.

Keep doubling down boys.

[IndyPragmatist]

22. No, I never said it was

Which is why I didn't count it. I said there is normally the helmet logo there, but because they covered it up with the team name, it doesn't count. And no, it doesn't mean 15 different corporate logos. The contracts that teams have with clothing companies have stipulations on what other companies can be worn. They usually only allow other logos on essential equipment, such as chin-straps, knee-braces, neck-roll, or mouth piece. They would likely be breaching their contract with UA if they had multiple logos on their clothing.

[trumad]

24. they dont cover the logo witg the team decal

There is no logo underneath.

Brooks was clearly trying to say there were 15 different corp logos on Cams uniform.

There isn't.

[joeglow3]

33. Spin Spin Spin

However, I would bet my life you are an Auburn fan and are reading this as an attack on Newton, who you feel you MUST defend to the death.

The fact of the matter is that there CLEARLY are 15 different spots on the uniform sporting a Corporate logo. And YOU know damn well if Under Armor was not paying enough money, every one of those spots would be filled by some other Corporate logo.

Far as I can tell, your argument seems to be that there is actually even MORE corporate money being spent to allow a single company 15 different mentions of their name on the uniform without having others show up.

[trumad]

39. where

Are the 15 corporate logos?

Find them.

[joeglow3]

41. Are you fucking kidding me?

There are multiple posts in the thread with actual photos showing the logo's on shoes, socks, armbands, pants, shirts, towels, etc. Given that you have replied to most of these posts, I know you have seen the photos. Thus, you are trying to spin, spin, spin.

[trumad]

42. Find me one picture showing Cam whearing 15 corporate logos

on his uniform.

You can't...

[joeglow3]

45. Here

http://tinyurl.com/4xb32ta

You can clearly see 10. (Jersey, pants, wristbands (x2), socks (x2), helmet (x2), shoes (x2)). We have also seen from pictures of Auburn's official shoes, there are 4 more on the shoes (sorry that there are no 360 degree photos). That is 14.

Either way, the crux of the article stands. Sorry if your blinded love for an athlete who does not give 2 shits about you blinds you.

[madinmaryland]

37. Face it, trumad.

You are getting you ass handed to yourself on a platter.

[trumad]

38. really

By two knuckleheads who are defending Brooks douchebaggery.

You still haven't found 15 corporate logos on Cams uniform. Find the 15 corporate logos IE...put up or shut up.

[Recursion]

26. Well, Auburn and the SEC are corporations

The whole piece is kind of silly, though.

[trumad]

31. ugg

[Recursion]

35. Roll Tide

:evilgrin:

[Octafish]

14. David Brooks is a Moonie.

He just wants a contribution. His nostalgia for a return to the days of amateur bliss is only the latest camouflage for continuing the undemocratic positions of his paymasters, from welfare for the wealthy to wars without end. And seriously, Sometimes the Truth is Friggin' Bizarre.

[AngryAmish]

15. College sports exists for the university employees, not the students.

Why are there so many logos on the clothes? To make money for the university athletic departments. There are two revenue sports - men's football and men's basketball. At the typical big university these sports must make money to pay for the lacross team, the crew team, the golf team etc. Title IX means there has to be at least as many women with scholarships as men (with a growing movement to have more women than men with scholarships). These sports cost money, the volleyball coach has to get paid, the bus needs gas etc.

The Bowl system is another utter cesspool.

Football and basketball recruiting is a cesspool (millions of dollars riding on a grown up lying to a sixteen year old kid.)

The is not set up for the kids.

I was played golf with a former FSU player. He is in the financial services business and does well. He said he was going through the motions of school until the first game of his junior year. He thought he might get drafted so he just stayed eligible, cut class etc. During a timeout on the bench he looked up into the stands. A guy a few years ahead of him who was going to be a sure-fire NFL player (until he hurt his knee and lost his scholarship) was in the stands selling hotdogs. He swore he would not end up there, started studying (and the coaches were pissed), got his grades up, graduated, got a MBA at a real school (Kellogg?) and the rest is history.

THe game is for adults, not the kids.

[Fumesucker]

19. Brooks heard that at the Applebee's salad bar no doubt..

http://mediamatters.org/research/200806030004

SUMMARY: On MSNBC, David Brooks asserted that "less educated" and "downscale" people "look at Obama, and they don't see anything," adding: "And so, Obama's problem is he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who could go into an Applebee's salad bar, and people think he fits in naturally there." Applebee's officials have confirmed to Media Matters that its restaurants do not have salad bars.

[madinmaryland]

23. This is what stood out in the column to me...

There were two sides to the amateur ideal. On the one hand, it was meant to serve as a restraint on some of the more brutal forces of the day. Social Darwinism was in full flower, with its emphasis on ruthless competition and survival of the fittest. Capitalism was rough and raw. The amateur ideal was a restraining code that emphasized fair play and honor. It held that those blessed with special gifts have a special responsibility to hue to a chivalric code. The idea was to make sport a part of the nation’s moral education.

On the other hand, the amateur code was elitist. It was designed to separate the affluent sports from the working-class sports, to create a refined arena that only the well-bred and well-born could enter.

Today’s left-leaning historians generally excoriate the amateur ideal for its snobbery and the hypocrisy it engendered. The movie “Chariots of Fire” popularized their critique. In the film, the upholders of the amateur ideal are snobbish, anti-Semitic reactionaries. The heroes are unabashedly commercial and practical. Modern and free-thinking, they pay people so they can win.

Thus did the left-wing critique welcome the corporate domination of sport.

Over the decades, the word amateur changed its meaning. It used to convey a moral sensibility, but now it conveys an economic one: not getting paid. As many universities have lost confidence in their ability to instill character, the moral mission of the university has withered.

What I find ironic is that David Brooks personifies the perspective of a wealthy elitist.

[hifiguy]

36. I call bullshit on Brooks, period.

The man is about 1/4 as intelligent as he thinks he is and is a smarmy, supercilious asshat who regularly dresses the most laughable, sanctimonious drivel in the rhetorical raiments of intelligence. He is an utter fraud.

[wilt the stilt]

40. Did anyone read the Atlantic article

that he references. It is absolutely devastating to the NCAA and the 15 logos are detailed in it. I didn't think much of Brook's article but the other article is unbelievable. Read it.

[trumad]

43. Read it...

And yes it did talk about the 15 corp logos.

I read the piece as 15 different logos.

Newton did not have to use a visor... where a head band underneath his helmet...where wrist bands.

So what if one uniform corporation has their logo on the uniform. That sponsorship brings millions into the schools.

I agree with the article that the NCAA is shit... but this logo thing is nonsense.

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. It's very clear The Atlantic says they're all from Under Armour

because it explicitly say Under Armour pays for them:

The moral logic is hard to fathom: the NCAA bans personal messages on the bodies of the players, and penalizes players for trading their celebrity status for discounted tattoos—but it codifies precisely how and where commercial insignia from multinational corporations can be displayed on college players, for the financial benefit of the colleges. Last season, while the NCAA investigated him and his father for the recruiting fees they’d allegedly sought, Cam Newton compliantly wore at least 15 corporate logos—one on his jersey, four on his helmet visor, one on each wristband, one on his pants, six on his shoes, and one on the headband he wears under his helmet—as part of Auburn’s $10.6 million deal with Under Armour.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/8643/?single_page=true

"at least 15 corporate logos ... as part of Auburn’s $10.6 million deal with Under Armour". You can't get much clearer than that. Did it really need a huge thread to remind you what you'd read in The Atlantic?

"That sponsorship brings millions into the schools"

Well, yes, now you're finally understanding what the article is about.