Johnson WH tapes: LBJ with Atty Gen Ramsey Clark on Thurgood Marshall & J. Edgar Hoover

[WI_DEM]

6/13/67: President Johnson spoke with Attorney General Ramsey Clark∇ about the nomination of Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court, which he was due to announce later in the day. The conversation has already begun when the recording starts.

President Johnson: Where did all this wave of stuff go around that he is disappointing as Solicitor General, that he's lazy and shiftless and didn't spend much time doing his homework?

Clark: Well, I think it's--

President Johnson: That's some candidates that didn't want him or something?

Clark: I think it's a combination of opposition, plus--

President Johnson: It's mostly--

Clark: --he doesn't fit the mold. He's not a Yale man and that kind of stuff, you know. Just a big, easy-going, very humane-type person. He doesn't change his behavior to suit other people. Doesn't wear striped pants. I think it's a combination of those two factors.

President Johnson: Will there be any opposition to his confirmation?

Clark: I would think there'd be foot dragging in the Judiciary Committee. And I think there'd be--I think anybody who really wanted to oppose would be kind of hard-pressed. I can see the possibility that McClellan and others will take a hard crime attitude and say that they can't vote for anybody who's not going to admit confessions into evidence and things like that.1 I think --

Conversation turns towards J. Edgar Hoover:

President Johnson: Anything new on Edgar ?

Clark: No. He's a hard man to work with. He was at our U.S. attorneys reception last night. First time he's ever been known to come, which was very pleasing but . . . he works his own way.

President Johnson: Does he give you any trouble?

Clark: It's tough. The press tells me he just undercuts all the time. His boys too.

President Johnson: Is that on principles or personality?

Clark: A little of both. Probably . . . more principles on personality. I think they work personalities only to strengthen their position on the principles. I don't think there's any personal antipathy at all.

President Johnson: Who are his men? Deke and that group?4

Clark: Yeah.

President Johnson: Is Deke his front man?

Clark: Pretty much so.

President Johnson: You ought to tell him you want cooperation from him. Maybe I'll tell him.

Clark: Well, see I'm not sure that's the way you'd secure it. It's a big outfit. I think you just have to work at it on a personal basis. I'd say it's better than it has been any time I've been in the Department, but it's still . . . I think it was perhaps better controlled when Bob was there through fear. They didn't want to tackle that, but it's--the personal relationships are probably the best they've been since I've been in the department.

http://whitehousetapes.net/transcript/johnson/wh6706-01-11905-11906

[ananda]

1. Wow. That was interesting.

nt