TROY DAVIS..........Oliphant gets right to the point.

[kpete]

http://rising-hegemon.blogspot.com/2011/09/yeah-thats-about-it.html

[Zax2me]

1. Another one played like a fiddle. Fooled by Davis.

Lot of people still willing to buy snake oil, I see.
And not only fooled, but convinced them to falsely accuse MORE innocent people of racism.
Nice!

[hlthe2b]

2. You needn't worry...

Odds are good you won't have long to wait to enjoy another execution. :eyes:

[digitaln3rd]

8. No, he's right.

People just wanted to use this case to push their agendas and play the race card despite the fact that he was guilty.

[hlthe2b]

9. And you know this, how?

Bury your head in the sand... No physical evidence and witnesses recanted. But for those who enjoy the more sadistic aspects of our "criminal system" and are far less worried about actual "justice", it was surely a good night.

[uponit7771]

16. What is the "race card" kind person....thx in advance for any response

[EOTE]

19. Do you have any evidence to support your assertion?

Or are you just pleased as punch that you got your pound of flesh?

[truebrit71]

35. Bullshit. n/t

Do some fucking research first...otherwise you wind up saying stupid shit in public that everyone can see...:eyes:

[marmar]

60. Reason and logic aren't your strong suits, I see.

nt

[FourScore]

3. did you forget the sarcasm thingy? n/t

[hlthe2b]

4. ...

apparently you haven't seen his string of previous posts....Uggh.

[uponit7771]

6. I need a high bar to kill people, I'm taking back that some peoples bar is so low

[sad sally]

86. The violent solution...

"If you lock someone up for life, you take him off the streets, but you can later release him and compensate him if you discover that you made an error. If you kill him, you no longer have that option and you also send a message that violent solutions -- executions -- are approved by the state."

[WillyT]

13. Well You Good 'Ole Boys Know Best How To Deliver Justice...

Your history is FULL of examples.

[itsallhappening]

14. Oh, a regional fight!

Maybe the rest of the country should follow CA, who ranks 49th out of 50 in adults with at least a high school diploma? lol

[WillyT]

15. Dude... You Forgot Your Profile

:shrug:

[NoGOPZone]

41. Strange stat to mention

when the two states behind California are Mississippi and Texas. It's 51 because DC was included separately, by the way. Not sure what your point is anyway. That states should base their death penalty laws on the educational attainment of its adults?

http://www.brookings.edu/metro/StateOfMetroAmerica/Map.aspx#/?subject=4&ind=27&dist=1_0&data=Percent&year=2009&geo=state&zoom=0&x=0&y=0

[EOTE]

20. Yeah. The guy was obviously guilty.

Otherwise he wouldn't be hanging from a tree.

I can't tell you how disgusted I've been with DU as of late.

[hlthe2b]

47. You do realize what a minority these posters reflect...

One might almost wonder if there were an intention to disrupt? Surely not. :eyes:

[EOTE]

72. Yes, but they're a very loud minority.

It would sicken me to encounter people like these on the street. I find it completely unacceptable at a place like DU.

[EOTE]

18. Disgusting.

I'm sure you are privy to evidence other than the witness testimony, the bulk of which has been recanted, right? That was the sole evidence on which he was convicted. So pony up the evidence. Surely you have that or you wouldn't have made such an asinine comment. Or you might just love making ignorant comments, which is wholly possible.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

33. Kirk Bloodsworth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Bloodsworth

This has nothing to do with "accusing innocent people of racism". Nothing.

Do you get that? Nothing.

[xocet]

42. Like Bob Barr? He is obviously pushing his agenda....

...
I am a longtime supporter of the death penalty. I make no judgment as to whether Davis is guilty or innocent. And surely the citizens of Savannah and the state of Georgia want justice served on behalf of Officer MacPhail.

But imposing an irreversible sentence of death on the skimpiest of evidence will not serve the interest of justice. By granting clemency, the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles will adhere to the most sacred principles of American jurisprudence, and will keep a man from being executed when we cannot be assured of his guilt.
...

Read More at http://savannahnow.com/column/2011-09-14/barr-troy-davis-merits-clemency#.TntFetSO6uJ

The above contains no accusation of racism.

Here is a quotation of Shakespeare for your edification:

...
Ham.
Madam, how like you this play?

Queen.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Ham.
O! but she’ll keep her word. (180)

King.
Have you heard the argument? Is there no offence in ’t?

Ham.
No, no, they do but jest, poison in jest; no offence i’ the world.

King.
What do you call the play?
...

Read more at http://www.bartleby.com/70/4232.html.

[Bake]

81. Nice post, Hitler.

You effing troll!

We don't KILL people in this country without due process and evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Oh wait ... apparently we do.

Bake

[duhneece]

5. There was too much doubt about Troy's guilt

Even pro-death penalty advocates, such as former FBI director and federal judge William Sessions and former Georgia Republican Congressman Bob Barr have spoken out against executing Davis, citing “crucial unanswered questions” (Sessions) and a lack of the requisite fairness and accuracy required to apply the death penalty (Barr).

[asjr]

7. That is one of the saddest images I

have seen and needs to be in every newspaper in this country.

[itsallhappening]

10. Where was the racism in this case?

Two of five members of the GA state board of pardons and paroles are black. Where are their voices today? As for the three white members of the GA board of pardons and paroles, what precisely did they do to prove they're racist?

Seven of twelve jurors in his case were black. Can we name the ones who are speaking out today? As for the other five jurors, what did they do to prove they arrived at their decision based on race?

I'm against the death penalty in all but the most extreme circumstances, and even then I'm not sure I could go along with it. I would have given Troy Davis a new trial.

The knee-jerk cry of racism looks more like an inability to express a rational and thoughtful position on the case. Keep crying wolf and those cries get quieter and quieter.

[uponit7771]

11. You're kidding right?! Blacks PRESENT or even in authority does NOT mean the abscense of inequality

...throughout the system or even throughout those who were directly responsible from keeping ballistic evidence from the jury.

Pointing out that blacks were involved or present throughout the process LOOKS like a thin attempt at negate the above and is a well used excuse.

I'm also not going to forget Georgia's RECENT strain of injustice when it comes to racial minorities in this country and act like it never happened while leaving it out of the equation of Davis' trial.

[itsallhappening]

12. No. Please answer the questions.

[itsallhappening]

17. Thanks for adding to your post.

But do you have any evidence of racism in this case?

I'm not saying that just because blacks were involved in the case means there was no racism. I'm wondering why they aren't speaking out about the racism in the case. Why are they -- the people with the most information -- silent today?

Same question goes for the whites involved in the case. Unless you're accusing them of racism. Which brings us back to the main question: What evidence of racism do you have?

[EOTE]

22. They are NOT silent. They're telling their stories to anyone who will listen.

A number of those black jurors have come out and said that they'd change their vote if they had all the info. It doesn't matter if he had black people on the jury. If he was railroaded with false testimonies and the jury was so misinformed as to the real facts of the case, he never had the chance at a fair trial.

[uponit7771]

24. AMEN!!!

[itsallhappening]

25. I agree that he should have been granted a new trial.

I'm trying to find out if the accusations of racism have any merit.

So far, no evidence of it.

Which members of the GA board of pardons and paroles are speaking out?

[uponit7771]

30. again, recent history of Georgia is enough......you can IGNORE this history all you want.

[EOTE]

32. He's a black person railroaded into receiving a death sentence.

Given the racist history of the DP, it's absolutely ridiculous to think that racism wasn't involved in his murder.

[uponit7771]

36. NAH, come on EOTE...any skin head or KKK who commits a crime against a minority didn't do it cause..

...race you know, cause they didn't say the n word or some other racial epitaph.

...I can't believe some of the comments on DU sometimes

[itsallhappening]

39. "I can't believe some of the comments on DU sometimes"

Same here. DU usually doesn't have this many people posting accusations without facts to back them up.

(BTW, the word you were looking for is "epithet.")

[itsallhappening]

37. So, it's supposition, not fact.

I was just wondering if there was actual evidence of it.

[uponit7771]

38. ...you think Georgias RECENT history is supposition?!?!?!?!?!?

Again, I'm not going to ignore their RECENT HISTORY...that in and of itself is ENOUGH on its face to think racism had SOMETHING to do with this trial.

[itsallhappening]

40. Evidence in this case, please.

Thanks.

[uponit7771]

46. Most of the judicial system involved in THIS CASE was white and is diporpotionate relative to

...Georgia state population.

A case can be made on those facts alone...

Again, why are you ignoring Georgias RECENT history, why isn't that enough for you?

[itsallhappening]

53. "Why isn't that enough" for me?

Because the underlying theme of this entire debacle is: We want good, strong evidence when we accuse people of something in this country.

Supposition isn't enough for me because I like evidence.

[uponit7771]

58. A pattern of RECENT acts is NOT supposition!!!!

[itsallhappening]

61. How did that apply in this case?

[uponit7771]

64. Doesn't have to, again...RECENT PATTERNS OF ACTS is abmisable as evidence even if those

...actions aren't blatant (and you've already been given the blatant and empirical) are brightly showing themselves in THIS particular situation.


I'm not going to absolve the KKK from a hate crimes just cause they didn't call a black person the N word while killing them in one of their murders.

[itsallhappening]

75. Oh, so you don't need evidence in this case in order to

decide that racism played a part?

Well, okay....

[LanternWaste]

62. One might also require evidence of Solzhenitsyn's innocence...

One might also require evidence of Solzhenitsyn's innocence prior to being convicted to a work camp.

"And we certainly can't hold the system in place or its common practices responsible-- we want evidence regarding the particulars of Solzhenitsyn's innocence without predication upon the system itself, which is wholly blameless.

:shrug:

[itsallhappening]

63. Evidence in this case will do.

[LanternWaste]

66. Or any particular case...

"Evidence in this case will do...."

Or any particular case... :shrug:

Without taking into account the in situational history, the local history, the regional history, patterns of racism, patterns of activism, etc.; and instead giving credit merely to one leg of the tripod rather than all three, it seems one's myopia may become a hindrance.

[itsallhappening]

73. Lack of evidence is a hindrance.

[uponit7771]

69. You've ALREADY been given evidence of racism in Georgias judical system that can be brought to

...trial.

You've been given empirical and circumstantial evidence enough to take Georgia to trial for racism in all 12 districts in the US.

[itsallhappening]

74. Why is it so difficult to find it in this case?

[LanternWaste]

51. Nor does a raindrop give evidence of the ocean...

"So far, no evidence of it..."

Nor does a raindrop give evidence of the ocean... :shrug:

[itsallhappening]

55. There's evidence of the ocean.

:shrug:

What's the evidence that the GA state board of pardons and parole acted in a racist manner when denying clemency?

[LanternWaste]

65. In and of itself, not from one raindrop...

"There's evidence of the ocean...."

In and of itself, not from one raindrop... :shrug:

[EOTE]

21. A number of those jurors said they'd have voted differently if they knew then what they knew now.

The point is that the death penalty as a whole is extremely racist. A black person convicted of killing a white person (ignoring the fact that Davis was almost certainly innocent) is far, far more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person convicted of killing a black person. If Troy Davis were white, he'd be alive today. That's all there is to say about it.

[itsallhappening]

23. "If Troy Davis were white, he'd be alive today. That's all there is to say about it."

I doubt it's that simple.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/13/claude-jones-dna-tests-executed_n_783085.html

[uponit7771]

27. Looking at the RECENT history of Georgia in context it is, I know a lot of people want to act as if

...racism and the effects thereof ended in 1964 but that's not true

[itsallhappening]

31. Okay, let's see the evidence of it in this case.

Why isn't anyone offering any?

[uponit7771]

44. My bar is set at recent history, like the KKK or Nazis etc. YOUR bar is set at direct acts of racism

...as if said history doesn't exist.

Am I getting this right?!

[itsallhappening]

45. I didn't say the history doesn't exist.

But just as we all want evidence of guilt when someone is charged with a crime, if we're going to accuse people of a racially-motivated murder on behalf of the state, let's see some evidence in this case.

If by "direct acts of racism" you mean some kind of proof of the accusation, then yes, I'd rather have evidence than hollow accusations.

[uponit7771]

48. K, no one said you didn't say history doesn't exist....your setting your racism radar HIGHER than...

...that though.

Again, I'm not going to absolve Georgia of it's RECENT racial history....for me that is enough to raise racial questions on it's face

[itsallhappening]

50. Raise all the questions you want based on the history.

That's logical.

But eventually you need some evidence in specific cases. Apparently, you don't have it.

[uponit7771]

56. The RECENT history and patterns IS..IS EVIDENCE!!! WTF?!?! Again, you're kidding me right?!!?

LOL!!

It sounds like your absolving Georgia of its actions...

Kinda like sayin cause a blatant Nazi supporter didn't kill a jewish person because of their race just because he didn't call them rat or something?

[itsallhappening]

59. How did it apply in this case?

No, I'm not kidding. Perhaps you are? You're making accusations as if it's a slam-dunk. Just post the evidence.

"Kinda like sayin cause a blatant Nazi supporter didn't kill a jewish person because of their race just because he didn't call them rat or something?"

I have no idea where you're going with that.

[uponit7771]

67. In US courts and in life RECENT PATTERNS OF ACTIONS is a slam dunk. If Troy Davis had a history

...of killing cops then in our courts and in peoples logic line of thinking this would be a slam dunk case.

"I have no idea where you're going with that."

Are you saying you can ignore that recent history of individuals and organizations JUST because it's not blatant at one time or the other?

[itsallhappening]

76. Put it in all caps if you like.

You're still presenting zero evidence of racism in this case.

[EOTE]

29. Well, it is that simple.

If you refuse to see the racism that's inherent in the death penalty, then you're blind. I'll repeat: If you're a black person convicted of killing a white person, you are FAR more likely to receive the DP than the other way around. That's a FACT. If you refuse to recognize facts, then you're willfully ignorant.

[itsallhappening]

34. Okay. It's that simple.

So please post the evidence of how the GA state board of pardons and paroles acted in a racist manner.

[EOTE]

71. You are wholly ignorant in this manner.

One does not need to demonstrate it in this case because evidence of racism in the DP is all over the place. The DP is unequally applied and is unconstitutional. The death penalty is undeniably racist and Troy Davis was killed as part of that system. That tells you all you need to know right there. If you're content on expressing your ignorance further, go ahead. I won't be a part of it.

[itsallhappening]

78. Translation:

"I have no evidence that racism played a role in this case, so I'll call you ignorant, declare my superior knowledge and take my ball and go home."

[EOTE]

80. There was no evidence against Troy Davis, yet he was murdered.

Translation: He was the victim of racism. Once again, don't blame me for your blind ignorance.

[itsallhappening]

82. Your logic is poor.

By your way of thinking, all 12 jurors are racist, including the black ones.

Really, you should put more thought into your posts. Clearly you have let emotion overcome your ability to reason, to the extent that it exists.

[EOTE]

83. The system in which he was convicted is racist.

That is apparent on its face. There's no way to explain the disparities in sentencing between white and black people without accounting for racism. Your logic is worse than poor, it's nonexistent.

[uponit7771]

52. another great fact, some people set their racism radar at calling a black person the n word while...

...burning them alive or something.

I think they've been allowed to use those excuses for a long time...

[NewJeffCT]

43. No, it's not that simple - it is also important that the victim is white

prosecutors are far more likely to seek the death penalty if the victim is white. The least likely is black on black.

[itsallhappening]

49. There is one simple defense of Troy Davis.

The evidence against him was fraught with reasonable doubt.

It's an easy case to make. I'm sure all of us in this thread who followed the case could type it out without having to look anything up. It's a disgrace that we can convict people on bad evidence and have the conviction stick for twenty-two years.

The baseless accusations of racism don't help us make the case that the system failed Troy Davis from day one. The defense of Troy Davis is strong based on the actual trial facts.

[uponit7771]

70. They aren't "baseless", you've already been given hard evidence of CURRENT indicators of racism in..

...Georgia's judicial system enough to take it straight to a jury trial.

Sounds like you've set your racism bar very high

[itsallhappening]

79. I set the bar at actual evidence.

If there was any evidence that racism played a part in the Troy Davis case, you'd post it.

Instead, you've made up your mind (facts be damned) and you're sticking with it.

[loyalsister]

28. A single person can not be blamed for Institutional racism

There is a systemic pattern to who is executed in this country.
It is not always outwardly malicious, but unquestioned institutional inequality serves to validate the most hateful racist attitudes. "The race card" = the accusation people make to defend against questioning the generally accepted standard inequality.

[uponit7771]

57. Thank you, very well put

[Kingofalldems]

26. I have seen that right here re the Siegelman case

[tblue]

54. ^^^ I never realized there was a bloodthirsty wing of the Dem party ^^^

Sheesh!

[hlthe2b]

68. Don't be so certain they actually are....

(representative of the Dem party)....:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. There is... we have our law and order types

on the bright side, and Troy understood this... the more executions that have that many doubts the more regular folks will be turned against it... we are still in the minority but slowly going towards a majority.

[Lorien]

85. You mean our racist death loving types. nt

[Lorien]

84. It's the New Third Way.

:puke: