Rick Perry set to murder one of James Byrd's killers

[Dreamer Tatum]

Texas gets ready to murder someone else

Anyone holding a candlelight vigil? Let's send pizza.

[aikoaiko]

1. I'm ok with this sentence given the facts.

Heinous crime and certainty of agency and no compelling mitigating circumstances.

[Richardo]

2. My only regret is that they're not going to chain him to a pickup truck and drag him to death

He's wasted enough oxygen - hasta la vista, baby.

[sharp_stick]

3. The victims son may be there

doesn't sound like he wants to kill the guy.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/21/us-texas-execution-son-idUSTRE78K35B20110921

[Cirque du So-What]

22. Conspicuously ignored by the OP

It seems that the OP is more hellbent on vengeance than someone affected personally by this heinous crime. T'was ever thus.

[sharp_stick]

24. Don't really know the OP

so I can't pretend to know all of his thoughts on the matter. However, there are a lot of people that throw their arms in the air and yell "Think of the poor victims family" anytime they can except when the victims family asks that the inmate not be executed. Then it's all "but it was such a heinous crime" "we must follow the law"... not so much "think of the victims family" then.

I gave up my support of the DP years ago. It's cheaper, more effective and easier to just lock the scumbags up IMO.

[Cirque du So-What]

28. Yes, much of my opposition to the DP is related to expediency

I find it hard to work up a much in the way of sympathy for those who have committed capital crimes, but it galls to consider the exorbitant costs that accumulate with any capital case. I also believe our national zeitgeist would benefit from joining the league of civilized nations in abandoning this hollow, vengeful practice.

[JustAnotherGen]

4. Fair point

I guess some folks who think it's black and white (pardon the pun) can't see how sometimes it really IS black and white. And it shows up in the oddest ways.

Making things right for James Byrd doesn't mean that Texas'/Perry's hands are clean in regard to Davis.

[RZM]

7. Davis is Georgia, not Texas n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

9. Sorry

Getting the two african american men confused!

[wellst0nev0ter]

5. So I'm Guessing The OP Is In Favor Of Executing People

whose convictions are in serious doubt?

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. No, I'm just in favor of the DP. nt

[Occulus]

13. Monster. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

15. Booga booga booga

I'm coming to GET you!


:eyes:

[wellst0nev0ter]

32. In Favor Of The Status Quo, Huh?

So you're in in favor of killing someone based on flimsy evidence.

[Yo_Mama]

8. The crime was so horrific

that you are not going to get anyone but the most committed anti-death penalty agitators to protest.

He and his companions tortured the man to death for kicks, and that's all there is to it. There is no possible doubt as to guilt. There is no possible mitigating circumstance - it was a "thrills" crime. The victim, Mr. Byrd, encountered them accidentally.

If this guy is imprisoned for life and kills or injures one more person, it will be one person too many, and given his statements, it is possible that would happen.

[RZM]

12. Prisons are filled with racial gangs

They beat and stab each other constantly. I agree that one more is one too many. But there are hundreds of thousands of other prisoners all over the country who have long sentences and will continue to 'live by the shank' for some time to come. Surely you aren't saying they should all be executed too?

I'm not going to shed any tears for this guy, believe me. While his crime is unusual in its random brutality, his membership in a violent prison gang most certainly is not. Actually, he claims that he became a true race hater while in prison before the Byrd murder. While that's no doubt mostly a cop out and an attempt to blame his behavior on others, it's also true that some people go into prison one way and come out quite differently because of what they see/experience there. I don't know if that's exactly what happened here, but I think that does happen.

[Yo_Mama]

25. All of your points are valid except

That this crime happened out of prison, was totally unprovoked, was done for fun, and that we are not discussing an execution based on what we suspect he will do, but for what he has already done.

His guilt is clear. The only possible choices are prison for life or execution. If you do put this guy in prison for life, it's not improbable that he will kill again, especially given his self-described views. Take him off death row, and I'm betting that there'll be more violence.

I am not suggesting that we should execute people whom we suspect will kill or maim others. I am saying that one of the few situations in which I would consider the DP is a case like this. If I put the man in prison for life, I do not end the harm.

A lot of people ask "What's the purpose of the DP?" In such cases, it does have a purpose. I also believe it has a legitimate and genuine deterrent effect in such cases. When someone truly is imprisoned for life, without the DP the person has nothing left to lose, really. The best moral justification of sentencing is to defend from further harm, and in this case, it seems to me that it pertains. Therefore one of the few times when I would be able to vote for the DP would be for a murder committed in prison - because I believe that otherwise we are promoting further violence in prisons.

The alternative is prisons such as SuperMax, but that is essentially death by slow torture anyway. Decades of solitary confinement would drive anyone off their rocker.

[RZM]

31. I respect where you're coming from, but you didn't refute my point at all

There are many more prisoners around the country who are in racial gangs and doing life. They will continue to commit violent acts against other prisoners and teach the next generation of gang members the tricks of the trade while they are at it. My point was that Brewer's gang affiliation isn't significant here. Many Hispanic and black prison gangs are racist organizations as well. Many of their members (not to mention Brewer's white gang buddies) will harm many more people during the course of their sentences. So why single out Brewer here? He's just one of a pretty large bunch in that respect.

If you want to argue that the heinousness of his crime warrants the death penalty, fine. But I don't see why you should try to back it up by bringing in his gang affiliation or capacity for future violence, because there are plenty more just like him in that regard.

[Yo_Mama]

33. He already murdered someone

I don't think every murderer should face the death penalty, even if guilt is without question. (As it stands, I don't support most DP sentences because of the inherent uncertainties, and in most other cases because I am not sure of the justification for such an extreme and final penalty.)

I certainly don't think we should execute anyone who hasn't killed. People who are doing life might well face the DP if they kill someone in prison. In that case, the motivation and circumstances of the killing may realistically affect sentencing, just as they often do. Still, a person who has killed someone else in the context of a fight or where he/she might have felt threatened doesn't pose the same type of threat to other prisoners that this person does.

If every person in a prison gang killed another, very shortly the prison population in the US would be vastly diminished. Therefore I find your argument utterly invalid. A person who has already committed such a crime is vastly more likely to commit another if in a general prison population. Either this guy goes to what is essentially solitary confinement, or he kills someone, or someone kills him. Don't tell me that if he were ever returned to the general prison population that he wouldn't be a target for violence as well as likely to commit it. There would be more violence - certainly there would.

If, God forbid, I were ever on a jury for a trial in which the DP was a possibility, I would not be able to impose it unless I believed very strongly in the absolute certainty of guilt, that the crime was heinous, AND that the person would be likely to kill again in prison. My comments simply express my views that this is one of the rare crimes for which I believe the death penalty is morally justified.

The death penalty here is not being imposed because of the man's racism or capacity for violence, but because he committed a torture murder in an utterly unprovoked crime which had no origin but his noxious views.

The reason I am against most purely drug use/possession sentences is because I believe the only moral justification for sentencing is to prevent further harm to other human beings. Society has the right and indeed the duty to prevent harm, and for me, that includes harm to people in the prison system. But society does not have the right to sentence people for their beliefs or expressions of those beliefs unless the person has committed a crime warranting sentencing on its own basis.

And the arguments about the expense of the death penalty do not apply here - it would be hugely expensive to keep this man in high security for the rest of his life, and it is a danger to others in the prison system if he is not so kept.

[loyalsister]

30. Or maybe consistent?

We all live under this law. If the death penalty were applied in a way in which it was not possible to mistakenly execute someone, then I would not be opposed.
Given that, under current conditions the cheering and vengeance of reasonably justified executions increases the potential for innocent people to be put to death. Satisfaction that comes from even questionably just capital punishment is only possible because there is an expected reward of vengeance. It's not a particularly civilized condition.

[Yo_Mama]

34. I can see no satisfaction in this for anyone

I'm not a psychologist. Maybe someone will get satisfaction out of it. I don't. I don't comprehend how anyone could.

As I wrote upthread, the justification here is to prevent further harm, and I don't believe the DP applied under those circumstances does increase the potential for innocent people to be put to death.

If I could order the world, the prison population would be much smaller, the conditions in prisons would be far safer, most penalties would be shorter - and still, given the very rare case such as this, I could not construct a good argument why the death penalty is wrong in such an instance.

I believe the DP for this man is a lighter penalty than life in what is essentially solitary confinement, and I would always opt for the lesser penalty.

Most people seem to assume that life in prison just solves the problem. Many times it may. In a case such as this, I think it doesn't. I think the risk to other prisoners is too great, and that we owe persons condemned to a prison term reasonable safety.

[loyalsister]

35. Did you hear cheers?

During the debate when Rick Perry talk about the TX executions, people cheered. It seems to me that those who cheered got some satisfaction in putting people to death. It's pretty creepy.

The justice system does not only apply the DP in the most absolute clear cut cases. Until it does, I think it's just state sponsored vengeance.
Supporting that individual case on that basis is fine. But that is not the recognized legal justification. It is only applied as punishment.
In my state they have started executing accomplices. It seems to be applied with an expanding vengeful enthusiasm. My point was a matter of consistency. In order to criticize one, I feel I have to at least register skepticism about all.

[Yo_Mama]

39. I haven't watched any of the GOP debates

so no I didn't hear it.

But I object to the characterization of "vengeance". I don't think that is always or even often the case. For example, in this case "vengeance" would be something like beating up the guy and then dragging him to death. Let us not fool ourselves about an eye for an eye and that sort of thing. This execution did not amount to tit for tat. In many cases where the death penalty is applied the crime for which the sentence was applied truly is horrific, or the criminal has committed multiple murders.

I don't support the death penalty as frequently applied. I appear to have a much more exclusive set of rules than average for when it might be applied. I don't understand why you feel you can't criticize many without criticizing all, but that's your business.

What, by the way, would you want to happen to this perp? What is your idea of the ideal criminal justice solution (aside from him not having committed the crime)? Are you okay with the real life-in-prison penalty? Are you okay with the guy being kept in isolation and high security for the rest of his life?

This execution makes me unhappy, but I do not know a better solution.

[loyalsister]

40. Revenge\vengeance

Not sure what your idea of it is, but my personal understanding of vengeance is that it is a personal satisfaction based on retaliation. Not an equal opposite act. And there most definitely are people who find satisfaction that reaches a creepy level. This is not a few individuals it is many and it is embedded in our culture. I think that validating it is probably not very healthy.

The death penalty as instituted does not fully exclude executions where there is possible doubt. Nor is it applied with neutrality. The quality of representation- as determined by wealth is what ultimately determines guilt\innocence or sentencing.
If I oppose the process. I think it would be hypocritical to support any execution that comes out of it.
I don't know the solution, but I sure of the systemic biases that lead to unfair application.

[joeybee12]

10. Unrec for a false comparison...nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

11. I didn't compare it to squat. nt

[Occulus]

14. You did and you know it. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. Show me where. Show me one byte of comparison.

I'm merely stating that Rick Perry, who is a Republican person, is going to murder someone today.

[Occulus]

18. Your "sarcastic" use of the word 'murder'.

You and I both know where you got that.

[gratuitous]

16. Yes, there are candlelight vigils against this execution, too

See, that's what having principles is all about. If you're against state executions of "sympathetic" prisoners, you sort of have to take the "unsympathetic" prisoners into account, too.

[Raine]

19. I'm not pro-death penalty but I'm not anti-death penalty either

It's not a big issue to me. I'm strongly against an innocent person being executed but good riddance to this scum.

[Dreamer Tatum]

20. Then you sort of are pro-DP.

Own it.

[Cirque du So-What]

21. So WHAT if some choose to hold a candlight vigil?

Strength of conviction sometimes requires taking an unpopular stance. Personally, I remain firmly opposed to capital punishment - even with James Byrd's killers. I have never participated in a protest outside prison walls, nor do I foresee ever doing so, but I have registered my grievances with the process in other ways over the years. Neither incontrovertible evidence of guilt nor degree of brutality employed by the murderer nor snide comments on anonymous internet message boards will convince me otherwise.

Question for ya: have you ever seen evidence of having changed anyone's mind after dropping insults as though from a Pez dispenser throughout this thread? I'm thinking that you're more of a 'sport fisherman.'

[bayareamike]

23. What OP?

This man clearly did the crime and it was an especially heinous one at that. Davis's guilt is in severe doubt given the facts of the case and the trial. The two don't even compare. I'm not going to hold a candlelight vigil for some scumbag like Brewer.

[Cirque du So-What]

26. Anybody remember these poseurs?

Protest Warriors?

http://www.protestwarrior.com/

I'm surprised anyone is still hosting their reprehensible website...probably bankrolled to this day by some repug schmuck. Looks like it hasn't been updated in awhile...a LONG while. Check out the bare-chested Young Republican wielding a broadsword...definitely reminiscent of Third Reich propaganda artwork, wouldn't you say? Anyway, this thread puts me in mind of a particular specimen who trolled internet discussion boards, bragging about attending every execution at San Quintin (sic) to cheer at the prisoner's demise. Seems this fellow, who went by the name 'Rudolf the Red,' was the übergruppenführer or somesuch at the San Francisco chapter of protestwarriors.

[me b zola]

27. Murder is wrong no matter who does it

...but it is worse when it is committed with the authority of law.

[trumad]

29. Is the death penalty 100 percent perfect..

In other words...is it possible to put a man to death who is innocent?

[jmowreader]

37. It is widely believed Rick Perry actually did it

Google Cameron Todd Willingham.

Now, as for Mr. Brewer...you'd almost have to be a death penalty absolutist to not believe this is a justifiable sentence. Not only did he and his equally scummy friends kill this guy by dragging him behind a pickup, they made sure to weave down the road so the victim rolled around and suffered more damage. Given that this is Texas, I almost expect there to be a party outside the prison while they're injecting Brewer, like there was with Ted Bundy.

[marmar]

36. And even as an African American male, I say he shouldn't be executed.....

Society doesn't become better by doing the very thing it supposedly abhors. Let him rot in prison. A state-sanctioned murder does nothing but temporarily quench the bloodlust.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

38. There are evil people in this world....

...and they do not deserve to breathe the same oxygen that we do. In cases like this, where there is not a shred of doubt of who performed the act in question, the death penalty is not a bad tool. Although, it does nothing to lower the crime rate, in fact, statistics show that in the places where it is used the most, the crime rates are higher. Interesting, isn't it?

Since the system is so corrupt and unequal, you have to abolish the death penalty. But in saying that, people who are convicted of the most heinous crimes and sentenced to life in prison should not be sitting in cell watching cable TV getting three squares for nothing. Why is it such a horrible thing that prisons be self sufficient and the criminals have to work for their stay? Not only does it make for less violence, it occupies them and gives them something to focus on and to be proud of.

My father in law worked at the Federal Reformatory in El Reno OK for 25 or so years. He ran the laundry. While it is a minimum security prison now, it wasn't always. When the guys were working, there was much less violence. When they weren't, well, he has a file of old crime scene pictures he took (he was the photographer for the county coroner for years before joining the Navy, and he had a camera, so he did double duty at the prison).
I'm not sure what you guys think about all of this, but it has been on my mind this evening.