George W. Bush, plain fuckin stole the 2000 election.

[Firebrand Gary]

Republicans should just admit it. The country is watching the GOP, plain as day rig the 2012 election. They have done it before and are prepared to do it again.

1) TRMS Coverage of Nebraska/Pennsylvania is the greatest example of this. Both states are structurally changing their election laws to benefit the Republican party. The contrast could not be clearer, these two states are doing the exact opposite to achieve their goal.

2) 33 States are now considering new voter ID laws, if they have not legislated them already. 26 of those states are in total control of the Republican party. Side note: Some states are limiting the types of ID's that can be used while other states such as Wisconsin are shutting down offices, specifically in Democratic districts where voters obtain ID's.

3) By June of 2011, a handful of states had dramatically reduced if not completely eliminated early voting. States that we have had election issues with in the past such as Florida, has taken it even further by denying groups such as the league of women voters from registering voters.

* It should be noted that it was reported this week that Florida is privatizing the handling of the early voting system in that state.

4) In many states Republicans have attempted to take voting rights away from college students, advising that students would have to return to their home state to vote if they wanted to participate in the 2012 elections. This idea essentially failed at the onset fearing immediate challenges.

5) The takedown of ACORN - Self Explanatory

6) Citizens United Ruling - Self Explanatory

Please feel free to add to this list if I have missed or left anything out. It should be crystal clear to the American people that the Republican party will do what ever it takes to steal power. With this current list of tactics provided by the GOP, it is impossible to think that they did not alter the election of one single state who's Governor was the brother of the person needing a boost in the election.

To the Republican Party, I call......... BULL SHIT!

[Syrinx]

1. .

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830

[Firebrand Gary]

4. Excellent read, God Bless Rolling Stone!

[L. Coyote]

65. JUNTA DAY 2000.12.12

Says it all!

At the time, I predicted the USA would some day have to go back and fix our laws, appointed judges, etc., to restore democracy at 2000.12.12, ovewrturning laws, rulings, appointments, etc. to undo the corruption of the Justice Department by Bush/Cheney. Every law and Bush appointment since Junta day must be subject to scrutiny.

[emcguffie]

96. Could you please explain to me...

-- what is Junta Day 2000.12.12?

I went back and looked but couldn't find it.

Certainly seems like Bush's appointments should be impeached just because he was never elected president, really.

Was it ever established publicly, or was anything ever done about what took place in Georgia with those machines?

I'm just over my head here trying to understand. What is Junta Day?

Thanks.

[WhiteTara]

102. SCOTUS named the monkey POTUS on 12/12/2000

That was the day DEMOCRACY truly died.

[L. Coyote]

122. Dec. 12, 2000 was the date of the Supreme's action ending vote counting in Florida.

Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98 (2000), is the landmark United States Supreme Court decision on December 12, 2000, that effectively resolved the 2000 presidential race by imposing an end to counting votes by the People.

The sequence 2000.12.12 sorts alphabetically and chronologically at the same time, so it is my standard date sequence for file names, etc.

[nilram]

132. Yes, GREAT read. Made me re-up my ACLU membership.

 

Click here: ACLU

hint: The DONATE button is in the top, right hand corner!

[snagglepuss]

68. Thks for posting. nt

[UnrepentantLiberal]

77. NO NO NO!!! Al Gore lost that election all by himself.

Do Republicans lie, cheat and steal to get what they want? Of course they do. Everyone knows that. Republicans don't even try to hide it. But that election never should have been close. Al Gore (and John Kerry) let his advisers tell him to soft peddle who he was. He ended up looking special. People want a LEADER. That's Machiavelli 101. Obama pretended to be a progressive and won in a LANDSLIDE. (And if only he'd governed like that he'd be rivaling the faces on Mount Rushmore as I type this.)

[emcguffie]

97. Actually, I think quite a few people believe he did win.

And by quite a few votes.

I agree with TIA (I guess we're in the minority here, or it certainly seems so) that a certain percentage of Democratic votes are stolen in every election. so when a Dem wins by less than that percentage, he loses. If he can win by more than that percentage, he wins. Obama won by a super landslide, so he won. Kerry won by a lot, but it wasn't enough.

I know, I know. There's no proof, that's what folks say. I think there is mathematical proof, but I'm too sick, old and tired to prove it myself.

;(

[The Wizard]

103. Democrats need a five point lead in the polls

on election day. Anything less than five points allows the Republicans plausible deniability when rigging elections. Antonin Scalia ended democracy when he single handidly issued a stay to stop the Florida recount.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

105. So keep gnawing on that conspiracy theory bone. Losing feels good

that way.

[valerief]

107. Nice you have so much faith in Republican-owned proprietary voting software. nt

[valerief]

106. There's just the question: who owns the proprietary voting machines?

Republicants! So who controls/counts the votes? Republicants! Who benefits least from exit polls? Republicants! Who steals all elections? Republicants!

[YvonneCa]

111. Watch this...

...documentary:

http://www.johnennis.tv/video/free-for-all/

[totodeinhere]

166. That's why polls showing Obama beating Romney or Perry by only a few points scare me.

If it's that close then the other side will have an opening to do it's monkey business.

[coalition_unwilling]

142. Gore won the election. No one held a gun to his head and forced

him to concede in the face of the Supreme Court's high treason. Now how pathetic is Gore's concession?

[Firebrand Gary]

151. This was the first major move on Fox News's part.

Remember the majority of media outlets had no idea as to what News Corp would be capable of. They controlled the entire debate, and twenty-four hours a day until the Supreme Court ruling they influenced the public, controlled the story that Bush had won.

Gore had lost even though he actually won. Once the Supreme Court handed down the decision the majority of the electorate believed (Thanks to Fox) that Gore was a sore loser and was trying to pull the election out from under Bush.

The Republican golden rule is, do what ever you like and then remove all the attention off of yourself by accusing your opponent of what you did.

[coalition_unwilling]

153. Oh, it was a bloodless coup for sure. Gore should have accused

the USSC of high treason for abandoning the principle of 'one man, one vote' and catalysed a constitutional crisis. (Easy for me to say in retrospect :). My point is that Gore didn't - he acquiesced in a coup that removed the final shreds of legitimacy that remained for the American experiment with a democratic republic. (The whole thing had been in tatters since Nov. 22, 1963, imho, so 12/12/2000 just sealed the deal.)

[Uncle Joe]

167. The Republicans held all the cards and they held a gun against the American Peoples' head.

The Republicans controlled the Florida State Legislature; which was prepared to send its' own slate of electors had the vote proceeded and Gore come out on top, they controlled both houses of Congress; which was prepared to recognize the electors sent by the legislature, they controlled he U.S. Supreme Court and they controlled vast majority of the corporate media, which had been and was waging a relentless propaganda war against Gore.

When the Supreme Court ruled against Gore, there was no other potential outcome than Bush coming to power short of civil war, Gore had the good sense to recognize reality.

[coalition_unwilling]

170. Academic now, but given that the U.S. embraced an official policy

of torture and crimes against humanity after the Bush coup, would a civil war have been preferable to what actually transpired?

[Uncle Joe]

171. Consider what happened during the last one, 600,000+ Americans died on both sides using

19th century weapons out of a total population of approximately 30+ million, that's approximately 10% of today's U.S. population.

As tragic as our losses have been in Iraq and Afghanistan you could combine the totals and quite a few single battles of our Civil War exceeded those numbers in one day.

If we had the same % of Americans killed today as what happened during the Civil War, that would come to about six million Americans, considering that our weapons are far deadlier today than they were in the 19th century, I believe that's a conservative estimate.

As for torture, it's not over until it's over, as a nation we still have the power to reverse course.

As for crimes against humanity although it's a long shot, justice may yet prevail.

I'm fairly certain of one thing, had we entered a Civil War, the motivations, breakdown of institutions and wherewithal would've certainly encouraged and enabled a far greater number of torturous incidents and war crimes.

[coalition_unwilling]

172. I say it's academic, but your post seems to indicate that the

official policy of torture that that the U.S. embraced is not as evil as a 2nd civil war would have been. The inmates at Abu Ghraib, Bagram, Gitom and the CIA's black sites would probably disagree with your assessment.

Consider this little factoid. Between premature deaths from violence, wounds from ordinance and combat and displacements both internal and external, 25% of Iraq's population has been killed, wounded or displaced thanks to Operation Shocking and Awful. Translate those percentages to an analogous illegal invasion and occupation of the U.S. and you'd be talking 50-60 million Americans killed, wounded or displaced.

Helps to put things into perspective, I'd say.

[Uncle Joe]

174. Al Gore wasn't faced with that decision in 2000, he was faced with the potential for U.S. Civil War.

I'm sure the prisoners of Andersonville and other Civil War era prisons on both sides would've disagreed with your assessment as well.

When I spoke of six million deaths, that didn't include wounded or displaced Americans thanks to Civil War #2.

Our official policy of torture is evil and Al Gore said as much when he found out.

Crystal balls help put things in perspective, but I don't know of anyone having one that actually works.

[coalition_unwilling]

179. Yeah, I see your point I think. I'm not advocating for a 2nd civil war, mind you,

merely posing a hypothetical values question (which is why I said to begin with that the question was 'academic,' meaning having little practical import).

Not sure what assessment of mine the prisoners of Andersonville would have disagreed with, but maybe I'm not getting your drift. I meant that the detainees at Abu Ghraib and other prisons would have preferred a second U.S. civil war to the Bush torture regime.

Maybe I should frame the hypothetial question a little more clearly: if one knew in 2000 that the U.S. would adopt an official policy of torture in the next 8 years, would it have been worth fighting a civil war to stop it? I can see arguments either way on this.

[Uncle Joe]

181. There are too many variables to answer your question.

"Maybe I should frame the hypothetical question a little more clearly: if one knew in 2000 that the U.S. would adopt an official policy of torture in the next 8 years, would it have been worth fighting a civil war to stop it? I can see arguments either way on this."

1. Is the United States capable of ending that official policy of torture without fighting a civil war and how long would that take?

2. Would a civil war create or foster far greater evils, ie: even more torture and/or genocide?

3. Who would win a civil war, the good guys or the bad guys?

4. Would a nation of even greater evil capability rise to global supremacy if the United States were weakened by civil war?

In 2000 I don't believe Al Gore believed Cheney/Bush would go to the extremes in which they did of promoting torture but he knew full well the dangers of civil war.

I also believe Gore believed that in spite of the injustice of the 2000 selection our democratic republic was capable of correcting itself, he still had faith in the American People and our institutions eventually doing the right thing.

[coalition_unwilling]

184. Sort of like van Papen believed that, once Hindenburg appointed

Hitler Chancellor in January 1933, Hitler could be controlled and brought under the control of mainstream German\Prussian conservatism.

I agree with you about Gore's mindset in 2000. None of us (myself included) thought we'd see the repudiation of 50 years of liberal democratic (again lowercase 'd') values, to be replaced by a strange meld of Yosemite Sam and Texas Yahooism.

Truth to tell, I blame myself as much or more than Gore for not pulling my head out of my ass in November of 2000, dropping everything in California and heading to Florida to give battle to the brownshirts in the streets of Florida.

[Uncle Joe]

186. Yes but to a much lesser extent, if we're talking about the individual, Bush; unlike Hitler isn't in

power anymore and we had a much longer experience or track record of democracy than Germany did.

While 9/11, a war with Iraq based on lies, torture and no doubt war crimes happened, they didn't burn the Congress, the people can still speak out and we still have an opposition party; some of which is in power, it's the policies that need changing and we still have the capability to do so, it's not over yet.

Peace to you and keep up the good fight.:hi:

[coalition_unwilling]

188. You just think Bush isn't in power

anymore :)

Wherever evil lurks in the hearts and minds of men, a Bush is not far from the scene.

My point was that van Papen, like Gore, did not see the evil coming and thought 'preserving order' was more important.

Peace to you also. I agree with you, think Gore is a decent man and that I would have probably done no differently than he did, without a crystal ball (an accurate one, that is :)

[Uncle Joe]

192. There are other major differences in your analogy of course, I was in a rush

and couldn't list them all.

I don't believe Gore ever though highly of Bush but, Bush unlike Hitler was never in prison for actively trying to overthrow the government.

Bush unlike Hitler didn't write a book demonizing a people based on their religion, Bush went the opposite direction claiming to be a "compassionate conservative" if there is such a thing.

We weren't having active combat in the streets between political ideologies as Germany had been between the Nazis and Communists.

Our democratic traditions were much longer in term and stronger than Germany's so I don't view Gore's "gamble" on stability and that our people/institutions would correct the situation at anywhere near the same level as that of Hindenburg's.

[coalition_unwilling]

193. I concur with all you've written. I think the strongest difference is

that Bush willingly relinquished power in January of 2009.

I appreciate your balanced perspective -- helps to tame the monster within me :)

As I wrote earlier (and at the risk of violating some arcane DU rule), I should have dropped everything in November 2000 and headed to Florida to give battle to the brownshirts in the streets (when they tried to stop the vote count). In not doing so, I suppose I made the same gamble as did Gore, to my everlasting dismay and chagrin.

[Uncle Joe]

194. Thanks, coalition_unwilling.

Peace to you and have a good weekend.:) :hi:

[Fumesucker]

2. No, no, no, no....

A billion times, NO...

All REAL Democrats know it was entirely Ralph Nadir's fault that Gore did not become president...

Never mind voter suppression in black areas, never mind the butterfly ballot, never mind the Felonious Five picking Bush over Gore, none of that matters.

IT WAS *ALL* NADIR'S FAULT!!1!1!eleven

[Firebrand Gary]

5. LMAO. Good ole Nadir.

[EFerrari]

8. It's easier and more familiar to be mad at one annoying guy

than to realize how screwed up our elections are. Just as it's easier to be pissed at Obama than to take on the profound corruption of a government that doesn't bother with the rule of law much any more.

But the fundamentals of political order are the rule of law, an accountable government and democracy. Lawlessness, impervious elites and oppression are what these United States was meant to cure.

None of those fundamentals are "this one guy that we like or don't like". And that's hard for us, for some reason, to keep track of.

[elocs]

35. Nader doesn't get a pass. He did absolutely nothing to help defeat Bush:

http://www.hereinstead.com/DARK-SIDE-OF-RALPH.htm

In 2000, again with the Green Party, he ran a full-fledged campaign, raising and spending money to get on the ballot in all 50 states. He drew huge crowds at places like Madison Square Garden in New York and Key Arena in Seattle. While he assured Democrats that he wouldn't campaign late in the election season in key battleground states, he reneged on that promise, zeroing in on Florida, Oregon and New Hampshire in the last few weeks before the election.

Few analysts predicted just how close the election would be, but a number of people who had worked with Nader over the years feared that his run for president would be disastrous. "When he announced at a big gathering in Washington, I was the first person to stand up and say, 'How can you say there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans?'" says Gary Sellers, who was one of the original Raiders. "There was a big hush in the room. He had no response." Nader was the best man at Sellers' wedding; they no longer speak to each other.

Nader's share of the votes was the margin that threw New Hampshire into Bush's column and accounted for the difference in Florida that cast the state into the post-election turmoil that ended only with the 5-to-4 Supreme Court decision in Bush vs. Gore. Nader nearly cost Gore other states as well, especially New Mexico. Every study after the election determined that almost all of Nader's votes would have gone to Gore if Nader hadn't run, but Nader continues to insist that he bore no responsibility.

Ralph Nader is an egotistical and hypocritical, self-serving piece of shit. Over the years he has treated his workers and employees like crap that I'm surprised he can any longer con anyone to work for him.

[Fumesucker]

37. I agree with you...

It was Nadir's RESPONSIBILITY to help Gore win for the MODERATE CENTRISTS!!!

In fact it was Nadir's FAULT that Gore lost Tennessee, it had become a flaming HOTBED of Green party RADICALS by 2000 who voted for Nadir in rigid LOCKSTEP.

[saras]

78. Best summary of Nader's role in the 2000 election EVER!!!

The only thing you left out is that he stopped Corvairs from killing a lot of young Republicans, who then went and had kids.

[Mopar151]

95. Nader was full of crap about the Corvair

It had problems - some fairly nasty ones. But Ralphie Boy never picked up on the real problems.... Didja know Nader does'nt drive?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[libinnyandia]

79. Ralph Nader 2000

     As someone who worked in a Nader-inspired organization
during most of the 80's I view criticisms of Mr.Nader with
mixed feelings. As I l watched coverage of of MLK's monument,
I felt sad that it was built so long after his death. I
propose that a monument to Mr. Nader's accomplishments be
built now, before he's gone. I would suggest that it be built
in a state like Delaware, home to so many corporations, and
close to D.C. That would be very convenient for all the
corporations living in Delaware and their lobbyists in D.C. to
visit and thank Mr. Nader for his indirect help in getting the
Citizens United decision through the Supreme Court. 

[mattclearing]

101. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[iamthebandfanman]

50. Shhhh

then who will we hate thats on our side if hes not the devil?







he goes outside the party, he gets slammed.
he tries to come back to the party, he gets slammed.

its no win for ole ralphie.

while i agree ralph has made some poor decisions, i can understand his frustration with the party and his perception that he couldnt accomplish anything from within. the process can be disheartening.

[mod mom]

56. "54% of the 179,855 ballots "spoiled" were cast by African-American voters"

http://www.gregpalast.com/florida-by-the-numbersal-gore-won-florida-in-2000-by-77000-votes/

Just a coincidence, right? Just like this little error caused by bad info from the state of TX:


Florida's flawed "voter-cleansing" program
Secretary of State Katherine Harris hired a firm to vet the rolls for felons, but that may have wrongly kept thousands, particularly blacks, from casting ballots.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Gregory Palast

Dec. 4, 2000 | If Vice President Al Gore is wondering where his Florida votes went, rather than sift through a pile of chad, he might want to look at a "scrub list" of 173,000 names targeted to be knocked off the Florida voter registry by a division of the office of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris. A close examination suggests thousands of voters may have lost their right to vote based on a flaw-ridden list that included purported "felons" provided by a private firm with tight Republican ties.

Early in the year, the company, ChoicePoint, gave Florida officials a list with the names of 8,000 ex-felons to "scrub" from their list of voters. But it turns out none on the list were guilty of felonies, only misdemeanors. The company acknowledged the error, and blamed it on the original source of the list -- the state of Texas.

-snip

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/feature/2000/12/04/voter_file/print.html

[Firebrand Gary]

158. Karma is a bitch.

Think about it.

[AverageJoe90]

89. Truth is, if if hadn't been for Nader........

There wouldn't have been the close call, and the GOP wouldn't have had the chance to throw the election to the Supreme Court, which would've meant no Bush, and therefore, no 8 years of bullshit.

[defendandprotect]

163. Right -- Bush didn't need to stop the vote counting in Miami-Dade -- 120,000 votes never counted !!

And he didn't need the Supreme Court to stop the Florida State Supreme

Court's mandated recount -- !!


They didn't need 300,000 votes by "Democrats" in Florida who voted for Bush --



:rofl: -- :rofl: -- :rofl: --

[fascisthunter]

112. hahahaha... it was a clever talking point while it lasted

[Rex]

131. Evidently the DINOs that voted for GWB want us all to believe it

was Nadar's fault and not their own traitorous actions!

[Hart2008]

3. Some people here still don't believe that Poppy Bush, Murdoch and Mr. Matalin rigged it in '88. NT

[Firebrand Gary]

6. Can we finally be done with the Bush family?

[Hart2008]

7. The Bush crime family is still on the loose, and Jeb could still run for president.

Is it too much to hope that just one of these war mongers could be prosecuted for something?

[Firebrand Gary]

85. We are fools if we don't put an immediate stop to Jeb's ambitions.

It's shocking to me that a portion of this country would even consider electing another Bush. We are like drug addicts who keep coming back for more. No Thank You!

[Firebrand Gary]

86. I'd bet, if the Republican party has another close election

And the public even gets a hint of funny business you will see the people take to the streets like no other.

After 2000 no way!

[Auntie Bush]

91. Stop giving me nightmares...the thoughts of another Bush scares the s**t out of me.

[EFerrari]

9. Are you kidding? They're like termites.

You never really get rid of them.

[orpupilofnature57]

20. Misanthropes for centuries or it seems !

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3255.htm

[stockholmer]

51. the Bushes have George P. and Jeb Jr. (35 & 28 years old) waiting in the wings

The Bushes are like the royal family (and just as despotic) that the USA fought the Revolutionary war to get rid of.

[A wise Man]

75. As long as the remembrance...

of 2000 to 2008 is on our minds we shall and won't forget the bushes. Problem is many have already forgotten the hell bush and the rethugs put this country through. We are still living it day by day.

[elleng]

40. ROVER did it, with help from his 'friends,' he's STILL doing it,

and we've got to be vigilant against the forces in the States enumerated in the OP he's set in motion.

[Hart2008]

81. Rove learned his trade from Lee Atwater in '88. Dole in '88 won every hand counted precinct in NH

Lee Atwater ran Bush's '88 campaign, and what a sleazy campaign it was.

Somewhere in box in the attack, I have this article from a paper about the '88 New Hampshire primary. (This was before the Internet came around.) The author stated that the tracking and exit polls had all showed Bob Dole beating Poppy Bush outside of the margin for error. Dole went to bed that night thinking he had won in New Hampshire, only to learn the following day that Bush had won. The author stated that in every precinct in which the ballots were hand counted, Dole won, but in every precinct where the ballots had been counted otherwise, Bush won. New Hampshire governor John Sununu (Sr.) was in charge of counting those ballots electronically. He later became Bush's chief of staff.

It would be interesting to compare results for the Democratic field for 1988.

[elleng]

94. Right, Atwater,

whose daughter attended school with my daughter in DC. (Before his death, brain tumor, he 'apologized' for his 'bad works,' which some think is a big deal. I don't share that sentiment.)

[coalition_unwilling]

143. Actually, Rove was one of Donald Segretti's dirty tricksters during

the Nixon presidency. The Special Prosecutor's office began an investigation of Rove but it ended with no action taken after Nixon's resignation in disgrace.

I can source this if you need it, but will have to do some digging to find it.

[emcguffie]

98. Hmm, that sounds interesting.

But it's a notion I am entirely unfamiliar with.

Could you enlighten me a little bit? or point me to some good info?

And about Mr. Matalin? Do you mean who I think you do?

Thanks.

[Hart2008]

99. Mr. Mary Matalin indeed. The Matalins are like Guy Bannister's office in Garrison's book.

One building with two separate addresses to confuse the simple minded.

See these sub-threads in particular:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1876521&mesg_id=1876866

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1876521&mesg_id=1877067

MSNBC did a story recently about how fast Murdoch got his US citizenship in 1985, and how his licenses to buy U.S. television stations were illegally approved before his citizenship had been granted. It sure smells like using his empire to support Bush, and eliminate his biggest rival was the quid pro quo:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/chris-matthews-questions-why-rupert-murdoch-was-able-to-fast-track-his-american-citizenship/


Murdoch told me to have someone followed: Buttrose
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-22/ita-buttrose-rupert-murdoch/2850338

[Mimosa]

164. Very interesting info, Hart. n/t

[emcguffie]

183. The links you provided had me going for a while there.

But I think I must be getting old and stupid, because I couldn't follow it all.

Did Carville have anything to do with Mary Matalin back in the 1990s? And why would Carville want to hurt the Democrats? Is he like a -- I don't know how to say this -- is he like a pretend Dem? I mean, beyond mean-spiritedness?

I have a health problem that has destroyed my once kind-of-quick wits. Sorry. Or maybe they were never quick, but they weren't impaired. Nowadays I feel kind of impaired. Sorry.

[Initech]

117. The Bush family has been criminal since the '20's!!!

[malaise]

10. Excellent post

Rec

[INdemo]

11. Well..we had a Democratic majority in 2006 that promised to

pass election laws leaving no doubt about election outcome but nothing was dane and now this year all that has to happen is a close election and Obama loses even if he wins.

[totodeinhere]

70. If it's a close election and Obama narrowly wins, of course he

should to take office under that scenario. However, we Democrats need to work hard to make sure that the election isn't close so that the GOP will not have the wherewithal to steal the election if that is what they are going to try to do. And as soon as we take back control of Congress we need to change election laws to make sure that this doesn't happen again.

[lark]

83. Good idea, but how in the world can it be done

when the owners of the machines are all Repug major contributors?

[totodeinhere]

87. Nationalize all of the machines and administer them with an honest and fair

non partisan commission.

[INdemo]

93. We have a chance to take back the House and increase our

Majority in the Seanate but with a Democratic party that seems not all that interested we could be in some trouble ..and we don't have Dr. Dean.

[Sancho]

12. In Florida they just hack the voting machines....

all the other stuff about voter suppression and ID's and redrawing districts is just for spite. I think the GOP here could probably tell you the vote count for 2012 in Florida now...cause it's whatever they program the result to be...

[robinlynne]

63. and in 80% of the country! Votes are tbaulated by one private company in 80% of the US.

[L. Coyote]

126. Bull Crap!

Do you work for Jeb? The Florida 2000 election was lost due to illegality, for sure. A great part of that scheme was suppression of black voters.

Your dismissal of these crimes is not going to be tolerated by me, for one. Take your pant load to free repubs.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Morning in America

Took a while to accomplish it, and he couldn't have done it without a lot of very stupid "Democratic", voters who are still among us to this day but Reagans dream has arrived.

Don

[Fumesucker]

14. Yeah, those Reagan Democrats sure screwed the country good.. n/t

Edited to spell the anti-Christ's name correctly..

[NNN0LHI]

15. I can remember standing in line at the unemployment office as that ad was on the TV there

And you are right a lot of very stupid Democrats not only fell for it, they encouraged it. I still see his fucked up policies echoed on this board to this very day.

I will never forgive them for that.

That is why when I read someone post here who is about my age and they say they really didn't become involved in politics until Bush, the tips of my ears go straight up.

Don

[Fumesucker]

18. I was an electrician working commercial construction at the time..

There wasn't a man I worked with that wasn't voting for Reagan, it was hopeless arguing with them, I quit because it was starting to have an effect on my work relationships and it's too damn easy to "get hurt" on a construction site.

It was the same way in '84, a lot of working class guys bought that Mourning in America crap.

Then the Democrats decided that anyone below upper middle class white collar types was not worth defending so there went another reason for skilled tradesmen to vote Democratic.

[NNN0LHI]

22. This from your post:

>>>Then the Democrats decided that anyone below upper middle class white collar types was not worth defending.<<<

I still see that sentiment right here on this board every day.

And the amazing part is now some of those same upper middle class white collar types who decided my blue collar job was not worth defending back then are now screaming at the top of their lungs, "HELP ME!" as their own jobs and pensions come under attack.

And I am no longer in the financial position to be able to help them. And they can't figure out why that is? It is a mystery to them.

Don

[Fumesucker]

36. You'll have to excuse their desperation, they only have $400,000 a year to live on..

After they feed their family..

The funny thing to me is that they can see how that guy is a douchenozzle but can't see any of their own attitudes in the same light.

Mote, beam, eye and all that..

[RKP5637]

31. +1, n/t

[sunwyn]

16. When free and fair elections no longer exist, we will live in tyranny.

I think we are there.

[RKP5637]

24. Yep, I fear democracy has left America. Now we live in a contrived corrupt

system.

Yep, "Tyranny, I think we are there." Of course, many American snooze, as usual, while their country floats down the drain.

[L. Coyote]

127. We have been living in tyranny since 2000. Didn't you notice Bush?

n. 1. An absolute ruler who governs without restrictions.

[coalition_unwilling]

145. As noted democrat (lower-case 'd') Joseph Stalin once said, "He who casts a vote

decides nothing. He who counts the vote decides everything."

Say what you will about him, Stalin had a great (albeit dark) sense of humor :)

[Firebrand Gary]

175. We are awfully close.

[Enthusiast]

17. Beautiful! kr nt

[orpupilofnature57]

19. Nancy Pelosi should of had him hung to dry, for High Treason.

Our Future " was not on the table "

[RKP5637]

21. They should just be called, "The Terrorist Party." n/t

[stuntcat]

44. +1

Honestly. 100%.

They are not just Terrorists against the poorer people, they are Terrorists against the entire planet and everyone's future.
They are using the religious and/or stupid and/or selfish people to rape ALL humanity's future.

[RKP5637]

46. It's a sickness, unfortunately it's not currently classified as such, but is

sociopathic like behavior IMO.

[lunatica]

23. The difference between Republicans and Democrats is obvious here

Republicans actually implement their crimes into law. Democrats watch and decry and never stop them albeit they wring their hands and claw at their clothes and writhe in agony.

ergo: Republicans win.

[RKP5637]

25. Often too many democrats are too busy fighting with each other while the

republicans glide by untied in purpose, goals and mission.

[orpupilofnature57]

28. Thats why Democrats are more American ,oh boy ,because the process

being a Democrat calls for Tolerance ,Altruism ,and constant purging and merging of ideas ,Nothing like Sisk-Boom-Bah ,thats why http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/09/03_hard.html

[mother earth]

26. After the steal, they'll say it was the tea party upset...

Why have no measures been taken to secure and protect the vote? So that manipulation of the vote can always be an option for TPTB. We absolutely know the gov't does not serve the people. What we have is the illusion of democracy under the illusion of a free press.

Until there is campaign finance reform and the integrity of the vote is protected and ensured, there is no democracy. Our gov't and our courts are funded and manipulated by big monied corporate interests, interested only in profits. Leaving the back door open ensures the candidate(s) of their choice make it into office.

[RegieRocker]

27. Waiting for those who argue their is no proof of electronic

voting hacking.

[digitaln3rd]

29. Sorry, but you're wrong..

And your tinfoil hat is on too tight.

Democrats got outplayed, and will continue to do so, until they drop this silly stolen election nonsense and focus on putting forth policies that actually work and show the American people that they're different from the Republicans (and that Washington isn't COMPLETELY hopeless).

[RKP5637]

30. Yep, I think you hit on the major key point, "show the American people that they're different

from the Republicans." This democratic party today is more like the republican party during my youth.

[orpupilofnature57]

33. RFK was the last Democrat.

[RKP5637]

34. Yep, he was!!! When JFK was murdered, the magic and democracy left the country. IMO it's

never ever been the same. I've been waiting for it to come back, it hasn't.

[digitaln3rd]

38. And I can't see it changing anytime soon.

With how prevalent the almighty $$$$$ is in politics today.

Russ Feingold might have been close but he couldn't compete with Citizens United.

[totodeinhere]

67. Oh come on. There have been plenty of good Democrats since RFK.

And yes there have been some who are not so good as well. But that's always been the case. During RFK's era we had Jim Crow Democrats for instance.

[coalition_unwilling]

147. Not to piss on the RFK parade, but RFK and JFK both cozied up

to Joseph McCarthy during the 1950s. I understand that each man evolved, RFK notably so. But I think your point stands. My current rep, Karen Bass in California's 33rd, is doing a great job from what I can tell. I'd love to see her make a run at Feinstein in the Dem primary.

[coalition_unwilling]

146. Interesting. Until you mentioned it, I had not thought of that, but now

that you do, today's Dem Party reminds me of Rockefeller Republicans. Actually, today's Dem Party is slightly to the right of Nelson Rockefeller, imho. That explains the current Dem Party's fixation, at a time of 9%+ unemployment, on the budget deficit and debt, at the expense of full employment. Also explains why I'll be voting Dem Socialist in 2012 at the top of the ticket.

[RKP5637]

173. Maybe that's what I am, Dem Socialist. I was just looking at the web site. n/t

[orpupilofnature57]

32. The discussion is about the biggest ,costly ,lethal farce ,so far in our History..

and you know what they say about that.The world is a much darker world because of it ,the lesson is Complacency and resting cozy in the notion that " They'll police themselves ",is fu-ked.

[Firebrand Gary]

115. Well then we completely disagree, but it should be noted that whats taking place now

Sure does not contrast very well with what happened in 2000.

Please note my response to you did so without accusing you of wearing "tin foil hats" Civility is important, work on it.

[Firebrand Gary]

161. By the way, if you are going to post on DU you should understand its founding. Here you go.

About Democratic Underground, LLC

Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.

Democratic Underground would not be possible without the participation of like-minded individuals from across the country and, indeed, from around the world. The content for the site is provided by people who feel that their views are not represented by the conservative "mainstream" media in the U.S. We accept article submissions from those on the left who wish to write, so that DU represents a variety of progressive viewpoints. We have a particular appreciation for satire and humor.

Visitors may also participate in our discussion forums, which have become one of the most popular places on the Web for members of the political left to share ideas and discuss the issues.

This website exists so our members and guests are assured that there are many others across the country who share their outrage at the unilateral, arrogant, and extreme right-wing approach taken by George W. Bush and his team, the conservative Republicans in Congress, and the five conservative partisans on the Supreme Court. We address the right in harsh terms, and we fully intend to make the word "conservative" absolutely radioactive. In that spirit, DU has already gained countrywide notoriety as the originator of the weekly Top Ten Conservative Idiots list, which is published (almost) every Monday.

Democratic Underground gets lots of visitors and we rely mostly on donations to pay our expenses. We therefore invite you to make a contribution to our efforts in whatever amount you can afford. Democratic Underground is legally a for-profit organization, therefore, you won't get a tax deduction for your contribution. However, you will get the satisfaction of knowing that as long as there are conservative idiots, Democratic Underground will be here to hold them accountable (and maybe even make fun of them).

[Turbineguy]

39. It's not easy to win an election

Especially if a large part of the population is convinced you want to harm them and destroy the country. Therefore, you must cheat. It's the only answer.

[elleng]

41. You're absolutely right, repugs never fail to work their crap.

We've got to be vigilant IN EVERY STATE, get on board Congressional efforts by Dems to alert about this.

Rover is behind it, imo, and it won't end until his demise which is nowhere in the foreseeable future.

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. Nebraska is NOT changing its election laws

They have used the Congressional District Method for electoral votes since 1992.

[totodeinhere]

69. Yes, and it resulted in Barack Obama winning an electoral vote that he wouldn't have if

the state were winner take all. What they are doing in Pennsylvania is perfectly legal. You can blame Democrats who stayed home on election day 2010 and allowed the GOP to take control of the state. Now that they have it they can do this.

[lonestarnot]

43. And anything else he could get his fucking hands onto.

[Odin2005]

45. AMEN!!!

[Aaria]

47. I can't believe anyone in this country would believe our elections are fair, honest or open.

Fuck'in mind boggling.

[tropicanarose]

48. Yup. Of course he did and took out country into the toilet. It is an outrage

[Blue Owl]

52. K&R

:kick:

[colsohlibgal]

53. 2000 and 2004

2000 was a coup run through the Supreme Court.....a group of newspapers paid to have all the votes counted and Gore won Florida under any kind of chad rule. Of course it would not have come to this without the bogus felon purge and the kooky butterfly ballot in that mostly Jewish district, those people were not going to vote for Buchanan. Given all that though the big mistake on election night was Gore's startling hurry to give up, to concede....even though Florida was so close and he was ahead in the overall popular vote.

2004, I am 99% sure, was a vote flip, the official final results were a mirror image of the polling....just as with Cleland/Demint in SC.

Back to 2000, Gore made an earlier mistake in his VP pick, if he had won and died in office....it makes me shudder but then it would have been hard to be worse than Bush/Darth Cheney.

[librechik]

60. yes indeed! and they'd like to do 2012 if they can get the right state to poll closely enough

so EVERBODY MUST show up and vote Obama next year or you will forever regret it.

[Initech]

118. Im more pissed at Kerry than Bush for 2004.

The pukes were totally destroying his integrity and he did nothing to stop it. They're doing the same shit now to Obama with that stupid birther crap, and if we don't keep calling them out for this bullshit, they're gonna keep doing it again and again and again!

[coalition_unwilling]

148. Kerry's ineptness in 2004 shall live in infamy down through the ages of political

history.

Especially noteworthy, imho, was the interviewer in Colorado City or Boulder (can't remember which) who asked Kerry whether, knowing Iraq had no WMDs, he still would have voted to invade. Kerry's response: "Yes." When I saw that on TV, my jaw about hit the floor and I decided right then and there that, while I would vote for Kerry, he really deserved to lose the election.

[Initech]

154. I saw that interview too, that one REALLY pissed me off!!

[coalition_unwilling]

155. I remember telling my wife at the time (after I finished shouting at the

TV) that I suspected the fix was in for November 2004. Only explanation of Kerry's foot in mouth disease that made sense to me. There's a part of me that still thinks Kerry deliberately threw the election.

[Carolina]

189. Touche!!! K&R

Actually when Kerry -- running for re-election in a safe Senate seat and against the expressed wishes of his constituents -- voted for IWR, that was the straw for me. I was totally disgusted with him. 'Course I voted Kerry-Edwards in 2004 but with little enthusiasm considering they both voted for IWR and the Patriot Act. The populism was cute, too, for two fabulously wealthy men who unlike Roosevelt or JFK, never exhibited by action a genuine sense of noblesse oblige.

[pam4water]

54. K&R

[RedCloud]

55. Most likely, but when the lobbyists come knocking, the elections die.

[certainot]

57. all state efforts start at the local RW radio stations- they need to be picketed, sponsors boycotted

those limbaugh hannity beck stations are at the root of the problem, selling the anti immigration, anti acorn, voter fraud lies, and pushing ID laws.

most republicans think the big problem with elections is voter fraud - does anyone think that general level lie was sold on fox and some emails and RW blogs?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

58. There's a scene in Alexandra Pelosi's documentary

"Journeys With George" where she asks Jeb and George, seated together on the bus, if they think they
will win Florida. George looks at her and says, "If there is one thing I can guarantee you it's that we will
win Florida." Makes my skin crawl.

[blkmusclmachine]

59. Tsk, tsk:

That's being very un-bipartisan of you. Think of something POSITIVE to say about the GOP. :evilgrin:

[saras]

80. Their bodies make as good a fertilizer as anyone else's. Happy?

[Firebrand Gary]

157. Shucks, your right.

I am very thankful that the Republican party did not blow the planet up, awful nice of them. lol

[robinlynne]

61. unfortunately, the Democrats are helping. It is not just the Republicans.

or it could not happen. Because that keeps the incumbents in power.

[Divine Discontent]

62. privatizing the early voting system in FL??? Hello - earth to Justice Dept!

http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128002960205017719

[Firebrand Gary]

88. You bet. It reeks of corruption. Considering Governor Scotts previous behavior

you cannot put it past him.

[Divine Discontent]

144. things do not look good for election integrity next year... I am so angry, and I'm sure thousands of

others are also who are on here, and who don't frequent DU or any internet poli site. So, we need to organize in the summer and be ready to do all we can to support the GOTV plan and push back when they try and steal the election by blocking people from even voting! They are getting so blatant in their vote-blocking efforts that I find it hard to believe that the Justice Dept and FEC don't do something against this blatant power grab at taking away millions of people's rights to vote.


http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128002960205017719

[Uncle Joe]

64. By its' actions the Republican Party is an enemy of democracy.

Thanks for the thread, Firebrand Gary.

[vets74]

66. Bingo !

[KG]

71. rather, it was stolen for him.

goerge w. couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.

[DFW]

72. Unfortunately, the Republican Party is calling back:

"So whatcha gonna do about it, libbrul? We're taking what's ours, so get outta the way or get run over."

Are we going to let ourselves get run over again?

[Firebrand Gary]

185. That's why we have to hang up!

Hell no.

[Jim_Shorts]

73. When you add vote hacking, redistricting, and voter suppression

the rupugs are stealing the close states.

graph from: http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/Documents/ExitPoll.pdf
predicted(exit poll)

[A wise Man]

74. Telling it to DU'ers...

doesn't mean a thing....we all know the truth about 2000 and 2004. The main stream MEDIA needs to project that truth to all AMERICANS..not the small minded americans that the rethugs have made up in their corrupt minds.

[Uncle Joe]

82. It does mean something...

People lurk here all the time and word does get out, our drops of truth make ripples far beyond D.U.

I agree that the process would accelerate if the corporate media were honest with the people, but their lack of journalistic integrity shouldn't be an impediment to our continuous rain of truth.

[Firebrand Gary]

108. Thanks Uncle Joe

[Guilded Lilly]

76. OK, this is not a secret, this is commonly known WHY AREN'T the DEMS

doing something NOW to stop this?????

If WE know this, the Democrats know it and knew it earlier. Where is the fighting back????

[Laura PourMeADrink]

84. I am much more pissed about 2004 !!! Jeb rigged FL for SURE on that one too! nt

[SnakeEyes]

90. nate silver wrote a good article of how

the district based EV system could also work against Republicans.

[deaniac21]

92. I wonder why these election tactics don't work every time.

[Firebrand Gary]

109. Because we fight, they lie, steal and cheat and we fight.

[deaniac21]

165. oh

[JDPriestly]

100. My very, very elderly mother is politically aware and still enjoys

great intelligence and a memory like no one I know. She no longer drives and will have to go some distance to renew her license.

Republicans are such a pitiful lot to have to resort to this. They want to eliminate the generation that remembers the Great Depression from the voter rolls. There aren't many of them left, but they should have the right to vote without having to go get their pictures taken and obtain a picture ID.

What a bunch of jerks the Republicans are. It's unbelievable.

[Flatulo]

104. What's the big deal about having to show an ID to vote?

If you don't give enough of a fuck about your vote to get an ID, then I don't either.

You have to show an ID to catch a fucking fish for chrissakes. You have to show an ID to take a fucking dump these days.

And don't give me the old '... but but but there's no evidence of VOTER fraud, just ELECTION fraud' line. If there is a possiblity for even one vote to be cast twice, then the system is flawed. The way it is now, I can vote 50 times in my town. All I need is 50 addresses, which is easy since I live in a condo.

[Firebrand Gary]

110. Are you a senior citizen?

Are you elderly? Are there times you make it out of your house once a month? Are you so frail, elderly and tired that heading down to the DMV to obtain a photo ID card because your drivers licenses was suspended 10 years ago because of your sight, that the mere thought of this takes a years worth of energy to vote.

Has life brought you to the point where you have no place of your own to call home, no physical address to ship an ID to (the ID that you don't even have the money to pay for?

Probably not, and these people have every damn much of a right to vote AS YOU DO.

[fascisthunter]

114. well stated

[Carolina]

190. TOUCHE!

My Dad was in an assisted living facility and could no longer drive though he had an expired driver's license. He became too physically frail to stand in a line at the friggin' DMV, but sure knew who he wanted to vote for!

[Flatulo]

121. Senior citizens and other SS recipients cannot collect SS benefits unless they can

prove who they are.

[Carolina]

191. Yes, but

if you started receiving benefits at 68 as my Dad did because of illness when he retired then, yes you have ID. But at age 89 when he died he no longer had any valid ID! His driver's license had long expired. His SS was directly deposited to the bank each month.

So take a person like his 84 year cousin -- still alert, active but who no longer drives or works and hence has no drver's license or work ID... she now has to get some form of voter ID!

It's a way to discourage voting.

[fascisthunter]

113. because it costs MONEY and therefore it is a Poll Tax

[Flatulo]

120. It's insulting to the people who were orignally

the targets of poll taxes to claim that having to prove who you are is a poll tax.

I costs money to get to the polls, it costs money to be clothed at the polls, it costs money to be fed and strong enough to get to the polls, etc.

[Firebrand Gary]

159. Good luck with that, it is flat out a poll tax.

And for the record the last time I checked, the Constitution does not require a state drivers license.

[Webster Green]

116. Pantload!

Nice try though. :silly:

[L. Coyote]

125. It changes the election outcome by 1-2 percent in favor of Republicans.

But hey, what's one to two percent in an average election, right? :rofl:

[Flatulo]

135. I'd like to see the sources for that, if you don't mind.

I'm a bit incredulous that 1% of American citizens cannot for the live of them prove who they are.

Seems fishy to me, but I'm happy to learn more.

Besides, the repubs need only flip anouter few percentage of votes to their favor, so even if you drove all those under-bridge folks and seniors to the polls, it's all for naught anyway, right?

[L. Coyote]

136. Some people do not have photo IDs, and it cost them to obtain them. Barriers work!

If you worked in election integrity, you would know this stuff.

"I'm a bit incredulous that 1% of American citizens cannot for the live of them prove who they are" misses the point. Even if they can, will they go through the trouble? Many do not, and that is why they are doing this. The rich, conservatives all have IDs. The poor, Native Americans, elderly who do not drive, etc. are without.

This might be a good starting point with the bibliography:

An Assessment of Voter IDs on Voting Behavior
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=16&ved=0CDwQFjAFOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spp.gatech.edu%2Ffaculty%2FWOPRpapers%2FRandall_WOPR.pdf&rct=j&q=voter%20ID%20suppression%20statistics&ei=mVF5TpXyGcHkiALNoa3QDw&usg=AFQjCNGH5qjg2-ZyE7HsQOeV2Gq3rGNNjQ&cad=rja

To summarize, the evidence strongly suggest a causal effect of the reform, in the sense that Alabama (control group) displayed no reduction or even an increase in the voting-age-population, registered voters and voting turnout between the pre- and post reform periods, whereas Louisiana (treatment group) did see a increase in the voting-agepopulation and registered voters but a reduction in the voting turnout. The results therefore confirm the hypothesis, that the voter identification legislation negatively effects voting turnout.....

.... you cannot charge someone for enjoying the benefits of a Democratic society like you could charge someone for seeing a movie.

[Flatulo]

141. Thanks for the info. Live and learn.

[coalition_unwilling]

149. If you have to have an ID to vote and, to obtain the ID, you have to

pay a fee, then basically what's going on is a de facto poll tax, explicitly unconstitutional.

[emcguffie]

182. I live in NJ.

It took me and my husband months, several months, maybe six or so, to get a learner's permit for my daughter. Why? Because our lovely governor, Mr. Christie, shut down lots of our motor vehicle offices. So the line is unbelievable. They throw you out at some point. Getting there and getting in line is no guarantee you'll even get seen.

I am guessing in very exclusive suburbs it's not so messy. But here in Essex County, which includes Newark, it's been a disaster. So, yes, I think it probably has kept lots of people from getting licenses and permits.

If you've already got your license, and there's no problem with your identity, you can renew it by mail (I think), with very little trouble. So it's a big problem for people who need to get ID, but not for those who already have it. If you don't already have one, it's a real mess.

And what if you can't qualify for a license? What are you supposed to do then?

I, unfortunately, had a problem because of my middle initial, which changed when I married. So I couldn't just renew my license. And if you've lost your SS card (which I lost before I was 21, many, many years ago), you have to get a new one, and that means getting the right version of your birth certificate. There are two versions of those, apparently, and one of them, the one I had, of course, is the wrong one and they won't accept it. So I had to order the right one, wait for it to arrive, then get a new SS card before I could get my license recently. It was hard for me. It would be very hard for an elderly person, or someone without transportation, or someone with the kind of job that they can't take off from.

So they've put lots of impediments in the way for us citizens with less power, money and position.

Maybe you haven't had to do this in the last couple of years, and if so, you've probably no idea how hard they've made it.

[Ricochet21]

119. unconstitional

Traitors

[vanboggie]

123. Cheating is the only way the Fascists can win

You're correct that they don't even try to hide it anymore. It's disgusting that so many Americans are clueless about what is really going on.

[coalition_unwilling]

150. Cheating is not the ONLY way the Fascists can win. In 1933, they 'won'

when Hindenburg named Hitler Chancellor, even though the Nazi Party's share of the vote had declined in the most recent parliamentary elections from 345 to 31%. Fascists can win if the bourgeoisie remain supine. Cf. Gore's concession in 2000.

[vanboggie]

156. True, and I consider that cheating n/t

[bluestate10]

124. Yawn!!!! nt

[Firebrand Gary]

128. Lets also call Governor Scott Walker out here as well

Attempting and eventually running fake candidates to weaken the opposing party is NOT considered ethical either.

But then again, stretching back as far as I can remember and including President Nixon it is standard practice of the Republican party. If you cannot beat em, steal it, if you cannot steal it, buy it, if it's not far sale, close it down.

[L. Coyote]

129. How Kerry Votes Were Switched To Bush Votes

http://jqjacobs.net/politics/ohio.html

Bush corrupted the justice department, so no action was taken even when proof of election fraud was published.

[YvonneCa]

139. ...

http://www.johnennis.tv/video/free-for-all/

[Firebrand Gary]

152. I pray that we make sure this never happens again.

[Rex]

130. So should the DINOs that voted for him in 2000!

Stop blaming Ralph...you guys are the ones that voted for GWB, not Ralph!

[dflprincess]

133. George Bush stole the 2000 election and the Democrats sat back

and did nothing about it. And, having not learned from 2000, they let the same thing happen in 2004. Accessories after the fact.

[Firebrand Gary]

134. Excellent point that is highlighted perfectly in Capitalism: A love story.

Watching the CBC, one by one taking the mic and asking for assistance from the Senate was heartbreaking, it made me angry.

[DonCoquixote]

137. and they are in better

Position to do it this time, in part thanks to the 2010 election! In every swing state, the GOP has put in new laws to limit democratic votes as much as possible! My beloved Florida is a fine case, with it's limits on policies that help seniors and college students vote. Of course, also be prepared for nader to accept more GOP money, as well as Jane Hamsher, so that they can bray all about Obama losing and make sure the left is that circular firing squad the right loves!

[Firebrand Gary]

169. They are going to have a very difficult time.

We will circle the President, but not to fire but to protect. The right just looks like fools at this point.

I spoke to my Grandmother, a life long Republican yesterday and her comments were pretty harsh to the GOP. "So the first two years the Republican tried to block everything Obama did, then in 2010 they took over the house and stopped all progress all together, Im not voting Republican next year, we have too much to get done."

[orbitalman]

138. K & R

[Major Hogwash]

140. We really need to bring the voting system up to date.

It's about as antiquated as McCain's lucky charms.
The ones he keeps under his pillow at night.

[Firebrand Gary]

160. For those of you denying this thread and calling it conspiracy theory I give you this.

Found in the about us section of Democratic Underground.


About Democratic Underground, LLC

Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.

Democratic Underground would not be possible without the participation of like-minded individuals from across the country and, indeed, from around the world. The content for the site is provided by people who feel that their views are not represented by the conservative "mainstream" media in the U.S. We accept article submissions from those on the left who wish to write, so that DU represents a variety of progressive viewpoints. We have a particular appreciation for satire and humor.

Visitors may also participate in our discussion forums, which have become one of the most popular places on the Web for members of the political left to share ideas and discuss the issues.

This website exists so our members and guests are assured that there are many others across the country who share their outrage at the unilateral, arrogant, and extreme right-wing approach taken by George W. Bush and his team, the conservative Republicans in Congress, and the five conservative partisans on the Supreme Court. We address the right in harsh terms, and we fully intend to make the word "conservative" absolutely radioactive. In that spirit, DU has already gained countrywide notoriety as the originator of the weekly Top Ten Conservative Idiots list, which is published (almost) every Monday.

Democratic Underground gets lots of visitors and we rely mostly on donations to pay our expenses. We therefore invite you to make a contribution to our efforts in whatever amount you can afford. Democratic Underground is legally a for-profit organization, therefore, you won't get a tax deduction for your contribution. However, you will get the satisfaction of knowing that as long as there are conservative idiots, Democratic Underground will be here to hold them accountable (and maybe even make fun of them).

[defendandprotect]

162. kr -- back tomorrow to read the article --

[tawadi]

168. K&R

[Samantha]

176. and the theft of the popular vote in 2004 when 25 percent of the vote in Ohio

was "dropped." Three people were ultimately jailed over these "failures" and a further investigation led the then Governor to ask the question, "Who wants to tell the American people that 25 percent of the vote was dropped in Ohio?" (loosely quoting). No one spoke up, and the coverage on the mainstream media never happened.

In short, for the eight years that George W. Bush presided over the Oval Office as its so-called President, those eight years were in effect a simple occupancy.

The unfortunate legal, Constitutional truth is that one can commit election fraud in the United States, but if the proof of the fraud is not indisputably proven before the Inauguration of a President, criminal proof of that theft AFTER the inauguration is not Constitutionally defined as a "high crime and misdemeanor." Under our Constitution, the ONLY way a legitimately sworn-into office President of the United States of America can be removed under the high crimes and misdemeanor definition, is by virtue of such transgression after he or she assumes office (pun indeed intended).

Sam

[Firebrand Gary]

177. It's amazing to me that they do it out in the open.

They keep getting away with it, no one holds them accountable. They keep appointing the Justices and tainting the whole damn process.

[Samantha]

180. They have no shame

Unfortunately, I believe it is as simple as that. And many refuse to call them out publicly for their actions. This must change.

Sam

[Zax2me]

178. And the economy still suffers today. From that one event.

will take 20 years to get over that presidency.

[Carolina]

187. And the Wimpocrats have allowed this

Imagine back in 2000 if the shoe had been on the other foot. Imagine if GWB had had over half a million more popular votes than Gore and the one state in question had a flawed ballot and was also run by Gore's brother. Do you think for one minute repukes would have sat by and surrendered?! There would have blood in the streets.

But recall, the members of the Congressional Black Caucus could not get a single Democratic senator to stand with them against certifying the vote count. NOT ONE!

And so it began... We know repukes are evil, they will do anything to win... including KILL.

On the other hand, with a few notable exceptions, our Dems cede, yield and capitulate. They asked people not to protest in 2000, have been mute about repuke Wally O'Dell's proprietary voting machines and the travesty of voter IDs.

Any wonder we're doomed.

[opihimoimoi]

195. The dumbass GOPers went for it....got what they wished for...and wow

did the econ go down?

MANY PUBS GOT ROOKED....

lost their jobs and many their homes too