The real jobs program: more on North Dakota and the Bakken Shale.

[dkf]

While California is mired in 12 percent unemployment and the national rate is stuck at 9 percent, not many people know North Dakota has jobs waiting to be filled.

The unemployment rate in North Dakota is 3.3 percent. The population of that state has been growing for a decade. The governor travels to other states to go on radio or TV to urge people to come to North Dakota and apply for unfilled jobs.

The state of North Dakota is giving counties money to improve their roads and other infrastructure. What is the secret to that state’s success?
Oil. North Dakota is sitting on the Bakken Shale Formation. Estimates vary. The U.S. Geological Survey in 2008 estimated a mean of 3.65 billion barrels of oil in the Bakken, which includes North Dakota, Montana, South Dakota and Saskatchewan, Canada. Continental Resources estimated 24 billion barrels. And a month after the USGS report the North Dakota Department of Minerals estimated 167 billion barrels in North Dakota alone.

North Dakota has outstripped Montana in developed oil wells because it has offered oil companies a tax break. In spite of the tax break the state is raking in enough money to have a $1 billion state budget surplus in a state with only 672,600 residents counted in the 2010 Census. Besides oil and wheat its economic base is diversifying.

http://www.mtdemocrat.com/opinion/editorials/the-real-jobs-program/

[DURHAM D]

1. So I gather you support and like to promote FRACKING.

Why?

[dkf]

2. JOBS.

[Earth_First]

6. UNSUSTAINABLE ENVIRONMENTAL DESTRUCTION n/t

[dkf]

17. WHICH WILL HAPPEN WHEREEVER WE GET OUR OIL.

We are in denial if we think our oil is extracted so cleanly. Now if you could convince Americans to ditch their cars then there wouldnt be a point to this right?

[DURHAM D]

21. You have no idea what is involved in fracking do you?

[dkf]

31. Is it worse than the gulf oil spill or the canadian oil sands?

[DURHAM D]

34. Read this from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

The oil/gas companies will not even reveal what chemicals they are injecting. And YES, this has the potential to do more damage than off-shore drilling. I have tried to ignore the oil sand production process.

[Earth_First]

38. Hogwash, Durham! It's been release as "proprietary" n/t

[DURHAM D]

40. Huh?

What are you talking about?

[Earth_First]

43. It was a sarcastic comment to how they have not release exactly what constitutes the fluids...

They DID release it: it's proprietary

[DURHAM D]

9. Its a dance with death. nt

[bbinacan]

20. So I gather that you have no idea

about the mechanics of fracking. I was talking about it in a related industry and have worked in the Barnett and Marcellus Shales. I've yet to see or hear, first hand, what you are talking about. IMHO, fractional directional drilling is the most environmentally sound way to solve this country's needs.

[DURHAM D]

23. You must be one of those people who keep writing/calling me to

sign a new lease. NOT INTERESTED.

Do you work for Aubrey?

[bbinacan]

36. Nope

I help pave the way for natural gas pipelines. You assume too much.

[jpgray]

3. Have you visited there recently?

You would see veteran locals regarding it as just another ephemeral boom, and droves of workers from all over the country, many recent immigrants to the country, with a shrugging sort of mercenary view about getting in and getting out. Hotel rooms are hard to find, and the indirect development from the boom amounts mainly to big box services, such as new Taco Bells and the like.

Again, this simply isn't any kind of sustained benefit for the region or the country, and is only marginally beneficial in terms of employment even in the most favorable of short-term views.

[dkf]

7. Tell that to the college kids sitting outside Wall Street with huge debts and no hope.

We need something to generate enthusiasm in this country. It's so damned depressing lately.

[Earth_First]

12. A majority of those college kids probably hold the environment in very high regard...

In one thread, we claim that these types are on the radical fringe for their extremest views...

In the next thread, we claim that these kids WANT these types of jobs...

:shrug:

[DURHAM D]

14. Those kids can not do those jobs in the oil patch. nt

[cap]

18. Fracking won't; solar would generate enthusiasm

But oops, I forgot we are handing over the solar industry to China.

Can't export fracking. Let's invest in an industry the rest of the world is moving away from.
. USA! USA! USA!

[dkf]

32. I've been screaming "solar jobs!" since Obama got elected.

It doesn't seem to work so I've moved on.

[cap]

59. Can you link to your posts promoting solar energy?

Where are they?

Btw you are in a growth industry -- screw up the environment and then swing around for the cleanup

[FarLeftFist]

22. What world are you living in that you think N.Dakota oil jobs will raise the nation from poverty?

Sorry but the people who are willing to do those jobs will do those jobs. Plus, how will a few thousand oil jobs in N.Dakota have any impact on our National economy?! They are already at 3.3% unemployment, do we think 2% unemployment for them will do anything for the economy except further destroy our environment?!

[dkf]

35. Do what we can where we can.

At least it's something.

[FarLeftFist]

52. How about starting with the areas affected the hardest.

They have 3% unemployment, their "crisis" could wait.

[a la izquierda]

41. I think most of them...

would like to have a planet to leave to their kids and grandkids. I'm already preparing for the inevitable grilling I get from my nieces and nephews about what happened to the planet and why we did nothing.

[dkf]

46. Oh we've screwed up everything for our kids.

Including the country's finances.

[a la izquierda]

53. Ain't that the truth.

[sudopod]

51. " the college kids sitting outside Wall Street with huge debts and no hope."

no one ever does anything to change the world unless they have nothing better to do, right?

[dkf]

56. Yup.

Wouldn't it be funny if some of those kids got together and started brainstorming the next big thing out of pure boredom?

I wish.

[bbinacan]

4. Hell yes!

I'm in the Marcellus finishing up a job. Good to know there is work out there,

[cap]

11. After you hit North Dakota

You can swing back to Philly area for the cleanup from Marcellus Shale . We have a fondness for fresh water.

[bbinacan]

62. Has your fresh water

been fouled?

[Earth_First]

5. Unrec

Right in the Ogallala Aquifer's watershed.

Shame on you!

[DURHAM D]

8. I see we have a couple of people in this and the last thread who -

think we can do without fresh water. Unbelievable.

[Yo_Mama]

10. We should take this issue seriously

First, we do not now have a feasible replacement at a viable cost (and clearly will not for over a decade). But there are quite hopeful signs, so I hardly think we need to be hoarding it now.

Second, it really would create jobs because it helps redress our import/export imbalance.

Third, it gets money moving in the ex-DC/ex-NYC areas. The fracking ventures, much as DU loves to hate them, seem to have sparked new manufacturing plants for components.

Fourth, oil supply is a genuine national security issue. We currently get about 8% of our oil from OPEC - replacing that supply is of paramount importance.

Fifth, land drilling and near-shore drilling on the whole seems to be less polluting than deep-water drilling.

[DURHAM D]

13. The issue is not just a drilling rig - its the damn fracking. nt

[Arctic Dave]

19. See my comment at post #15

[Yo_Mama]

33. I've been watching what's happening in ND for several years

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.t05.htm

NSA:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.t06.htm

If you look through that table, you'll see that ND is adding a lot of other jobs for every oil job. There is a strong multiplier and a lot of diffusion.

[Arctic Dave]

15. Is this more of the 70,000 workers for a million BPD fantasy you keep promoting?

It is utter and complete BS.

If you think their is that many jobs in the field then by all means let's see the breakdown of the jobs.

No more mythical "frontline supervisor" making $100-130,000 a year. I asked one of the guys who works for Sperry-Sun if he knew what that meant and he said it sounded like a fast-food job description. Halliburton has no such positions. LOL

And if they did, he said everyone of their guys would be down there working. Strange that nobody up here is scrambling to go to work down there for that kind of money. And they have years of experience.

[bbinacan]

44. Wrong

There are inspectors on this job making over 125k. Speak of what you know.

[Arctic Dave]

47. Haha. Iam speaking of what I know. I work in the oilfield.

How about you? How many years? I'm coming up eighteen.

What kind of "inspectors"? State O&G inspectors? Vessel? Vehicle? School this know nothing oilfield trash.

[bbinacan]

61. Only 5 years

The inspectors I'm talking about are environmental, welding, coating, etc. I'm a Right of Way Agent attached to a 110 mile natural gas pipe project. Some serious jack being made here, boss.

[doc03]

45. There was a report in the local paper last week that said

the Marcellus shale gas created 72,000 in the state of Pennsylvania in 2010. They are purchasing leases here in Ohio now for Marcellus and Utica shale gas. All the local landowners here just signed for $4950 an acre and a 19% royalty. It is going to create thousands of desperately needed jobs here in the next few years. We should be converting trucks over to gas right now, it would eliminate oil imports.

[Arctic Dave]

48. All these vague numbers keep being mentioned but not a single breakdown. Wierd.

You would think it would be easy for them. All they would have to do is find the number of rigs or well services units working and times it by support personnell. It's not like it's calculus.

Take for example a rig up here has a man camp of about sixty people for all the people working the site. For S&Gs let add another 40 for offsite people who might be temp workers. that would be a hundred people per rig. That would mean the they have seven hundred rigs working in Penn. That is incredible considering we only have 20 of them working up here.

[doc03]

49. Ohio county in West Virginia just on the other side of the river

currently has 14 rigs working. That is a very small county. Where I live in Belmont county Ohio we have 534 square miles of land, each well will service 1 square mile of land so we have a potential of several hundred wells here.

[FarLeftFist]

16. Oil jobs suck. We want better for our kids and our environment.

[Odin2005]

24. The few lucky workers getting jobs out there are making out like bandits.

Too bad it won't last.

[TBF]

28. And some are getting killed -

Like these two guys (I happen to know the family of one of them, old friends, and they are devastated):


Two men are dead of burn injuries after an oil well exploded Wednesday in rural McKenzie County and two more remain hospitalized at a burn center in Minnesota.

One man was burned to death at the scene and the second died of his injuries Thursday at Region's Hospital Burn Center in St. Paul, Minn.

Brendan Wegner, 21, of Montello, Wis., was dead when rescue workers arrived at the burning well and Ray Hardy, of Mohall, died sometime Thursday morning after being airlifted from Mercy Medical Center in Williston, said McKenzie County Sheriff Ron Rankin.

The two other burn victims, Doug Hysjulien, of Williston, and Michael Twinn, of Tioga, remain hospitalized in critical condition at St. Paul.

Rankin said road construction on Highway 85 slowed medical response and the three who initially survived were put into personal vehicles and transported out to meet the Williston ambulance responders.

Read more: http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/two-dead-two-injured-in-oil-well-explosion-near-williston/article_a2bfd086-dff7-11e0-86cc-001cc4c03286.html#ixzz1YS6mecKF

[Horse with no Name]

42. Rig jobs have always been dangerous

And with the huge push towards deregulation....I wouldn't want MY kid working in that industry.

[leftstreet]

25. unRec Where are all those 'green' jobs Obama campaigned on?

[zazen]

26. I thought it was their state bank, per this article

http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5426239/north-dakota-s-economic-miracle-it-s-not-oil-guest-post

North Dakota's Economic Miracle: It's Not Oil (Guest Post)

"Oil is certainly a factor, but it is not what has put North Dakota over the top. Alaska has roughly the same population as North Dakota and produces nearly twice as much oil, yet unemployment in Alaska is running at 7.7 percent. Montana, South Dakota, and Wyoming have all benefited from a boom in energy prices, with Montana and Wyoming extracting much more gas than North Dakota has. The Bakken oil field stretches across Montana as well as North Dakota, with the greatest Bakken oil production coming from Elm Coulee Oil Field in Montana. Yet Montana's unemployment rate, like Alaska's, is 7.7% percent.

A number of other mineral-rich states were initially not affected by the economic downturn, but they lost revenues with the later decline in oil prices. North Dakota is the only state to be in continuous budget surplus since the banking crisis of 2008. Its balance sheet is so strong that it recently reduced individual income taxes and property taxes by a combined $400 million, and is debating further cuts. It also has the lowest foreclosure rate and lowest credit card default rate in the country, and it has had NO bank failures in at least the last decade.

If its secret isn't oil, what is so unique about the state? North Dakota has one thing that no other state has: its own state-owned bank.

Access to credit is the enabling factor that has fostered both a boom in oil and record profits from agriculture in North Dakota. The Bank of North Dakota (BND) does not compete with local banks but partners with them, helping with capital and liquidity requirements. It participates in loans, provides guarantees, and acts as a sort of mini-Fed for the state."

[girl gone mad]

29. It is.

If all banks were run like utilities, we would be much better off.

[Earth_First]

27. 35-mile fluid leak: another fracking accident

In what is but the latest in an all-too-long and frequent string of environmental accidents involving natural gas drilling, a section of highway near the town of Hughesville, Pa., located in the upper Susquehanna River Valley was closed Oct. 9 after a low-boy trailer leaked an undetermined amount of frack fluid.

According to police the spill extended as far as 35 to 40 miles. Fluid was leaking from one of a dozen 100-gallon containers on the trailer as it traveled on the highway from Dimock, Pa.

In fact, the gas drilling industry frequently dismisses growing public concerns about the danger of the chemicals used in their drilling process, claiming that the chemicals are only 1 percent of the mix of million of gallons of water and sand used in hydraulic fracking. In the case of the Hughesville spill, the chemicals were 100 percent.

The Hughesville spill occurred on the same day that the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection fined a Marcellus Shale driller $40,000. The driller, Seneca Resources Corp., had illegally built a nearly one-acre impoundment for used drilling fluid on “exceptional value” wetlands in the Tioga State Forest near Wellsboro, Pa. The company was also cited for causing “sediment runoff by failing to institute erosion control best management practices.” (Sun-Gazette, Oct. 9)

http://www.workers.org/2010/us/fracking_1021/

YOU fu*king drink it!

[Earth_First]

30. Now compound this by 'xyz'

Why 'xyz'?

Because this is just the sh*t that is "reported" errr, that they are CAUGHT for...

If these companies were actually paying for EACH and EVERY impact that they are making to the environment, this would most certainly NOT be a profitable venture...they know this, the state knows this, the PUBLIC knows this...

[Lucian]

37. Woohoo! Let's destroy the environment so a few people will have jobs for a few months!

Fuck yeah! The world doesn't need polar bears or the Arctic!

[uppityperson]

39. There are other big reasons you don't mention, computer jobs, Medicare billing, healthcare

All of which are growing rapidly in Fargo. They have contributed to the low unemployment numbers also. Computers, computer programing, medicare/etc billing, software, etc, and healthcare.

[doc03]

50. How many of those jobs are secondary jobs to service

the oil industry? We used to have the steel industry jobs here and for every steelworker there were 6 jobs created elsewhere.

[uppityperson]

57. Microsoft. Medicare billing. Health care, cancer, etc. Not much to do with oil industry.

Fargo is at the extreme east edge, the oil stuff is in the west half. Not much to do with oil.

Biggest healthcare congregation between Minneapolis and Seattle. Air force is by Grand Forks and Minot with the attending communities and services. Lots of munitions in ND (if you took out ND's missile stuff and air bases, it is larger than most countries). Lots of wheat and other farming.

Yes, there is oil in the western part, but there is a lot more going on.

[jwirr]

54. Like the gold rush it will last until the oil runs out. Anyone know how

much oil there really is? And how long it will take the world to use it up after they have destroyed their environment getting it out?

[DrunkenBoat]

55. Wheee!! Everyone moves to North Dakota!!!

[TwilightGardener]

58. Other places out west have gone through recent boom/bust cycles with oil, gas, minerals.

Wyoming, especially. Very transient population. It's good for North Dakota, and for young single men, for a little while, but for the rest of us it's not a very realistic prospect.

[eridani]

60. Montana is sitting on the same shale oil

Its unemployment rate is 7.7% vs 3.3% in ND. The difference is the state bank. That is why they are able to offer more tax breaks than Montana.