Quaddafi loyalists claim 17 foreign mercenaries captured at Bani Walid

[Hart2008]

The battle has not gone well for the rebels at Bani Walid. If confirmed, this will greatly undermine the propaganda that this was truly a revolution rather than a foreign backed coup. It also could create a POW type situation with all of the implications that arise, especially if the Quaddafi regime adjudicates them "illegal combatants" or spies.:

"A group was captured in Bani Walid consisting of 17 mercenaries. They are technical experts and they include consultative officers," Gaddafi spokesman Ibrahim said on Syria-based Arrai television, which has backed Gaddafi.

"Most of them are French, one of them is from an Asian country that has not been identified, two English people and one Qatari."

Gaddafi spokesman says UK, French mercenaries caught:

http://news.yahoo.com/gaddafi-loyalists-capture-17-foreign-mercenaries-095030646.html


It certainly would add to the evidence that Qataris have been fighting against Quaddafi.

[riverwalker]

1. Syrian TV and Qhaddafi spokesman

no bias there, no sirree. :eyes:

[Hart2008]

3. The report is consistent with previous reports of foreign troops aiding the rebels.

Western nations have sent special forces in the past, and media have reported that private security firms have aided anti-Gaddafi forces in training, targeting and with leadership. Gulf Arab states have also sent trainers and arms.

Among the confirmed sightings of foreign security personnel in Libya during the conflict, the head of a French security firm was shot dead at a checkpoint in Benghazi in May, and British special forces troops were held for three days by rebels in March while escorting a spy trying to make contacts.

http://news.yahoo.com/gaddafi-loyalists-capture-17-foreign-mercenaries-095030646.html

The point was if the report of captured foreigners is true, it may affect how the foreign militaries respond. Will they continue to aggressively bomb when such action may kill their own citizens? If Quaddafi's forces can confirm they hold foreign prisoners, it could have an impact in the domestic politics of the foreign nations which have aggressively sought regime change in Libya.

It would also highlight that much of the news coverage of the conflict has been biased when it failed to adequately address the scope of the foreign military support. The rebels appear to be incapable of fighting any battles without extensive NATO air support. The accounts of young rebels excelling at firing celebratory gunfire into the air but lacking the discipline to coordinate an attack, underline this point.

The issue again is was this a foreign backed coup, or is this a revolution?

[blindpig]

4. I'll take door #1......

k&r

[Hart2008]

7. Door #2 gets you lots of camel dung. NT

[al bupp]

18. It's revolution w/ foreign backing

Somewhat like the revolution that happened in North America in the latter part of the 18th century.

[blindpig]

24. So, the French did all the heavy lifting?

Nope.

This is imperialism with a fig leaf so miniscule it requires all of the magnification the capitalists governments and their media lapdogs can bring to bear to make it marginally plausible to a blind person.

[TheWraith]

27. Yeah, actually.

Without the French tying up the British navy; without the fact that they supplied 80% of the gunpowder used by the Continental Army; without the French cutting off Cornwallis' retreat by sea at Yorktown; then we likely wouldn't have won.

And seriously, when you rant about capitalist imperialist running dog lackeys, with no explanation of HOW it's "imperialism" or evidence of it being anything other than it appears, you just sound like a parody of what the right wing thinks all liberals sound like.

[white_wolf]

31. I could explain it to you, but Lenin does it better so here:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/

[blindpig]

34. I could give a fuck about what the right wing thinks.

I ain't no liberal.

NATO ground forces have participated in all aspects of this conflict, as is becoming increasingly evident. At Yorktown several thousand French infantry stood to the side while the assault was executed entirely by Continental troops.

[al bupp]

28. Last I looked it Libyans doing all the fighting on the ground

That seems like most of the heavy lifting to me. The support which NATO and other countries have supplied in terms of armaments and air power actually correlates pretty well w/ what the French did w/ their sea power and material assistance.

[blindpig]

33. You are not looking hard, else selectively.

Qarti commandos spearheaded the advance into Tripoli. There are special forces of various NATO power on the groud fulfilling various functions.

[al bupp]

36. You're right, it's really too bad the Libyans had help deposing their murderous dictator

As for the Qatari commandos, that's an interesting revalation. Care to back it up w/ any evidence?

[Hart2008]

25. If the purpose is to replace Quaddafi with his former underlings, then it is a coup, not revolution.

Also, the French did not actively support the new U.S.A. until after the Continental Army defeated the British at Saratoga in 1777 to demonstrate its own ability and commitment to independence. Several European officers, Pulaski, Kościuszko, Von Stueben, and LaFayete came to train the Continental Army, but they were the result of Benjamin Franklin's personal recruiting efforts in Paris, not the official, or even implied, actions of the Polish, Prussian or French courts. Essentially, they were adventure seekers, and by today's standards, mercenaries.

[Distant Observer]

2. No Special Forces in Libya. No siree! All UK, French and Libya rebel reports of such are misguided

[Hart2008]

8. Hear no evil, See no evil. Speak no evil. NT

[Swede]

5. Gee,I wonder why their faces aren't plastered all over the internet?

:shrug:

[Hart2008]

6. Several reasons come to mind, the first being a lack of internet access in Bani Walid.

The second is that the Quaddafi regime may want to see if they can get the foreign governments to first deny the reports before producing evidence which undermines the credibility of those governments domestically.

[Swede]

9. Or access to SD cards and thumbdrives?

Some people are so stupid.

[Hart2008]

11. Well it is a war zone with check points and everything.

True, away from the big cities, they may not have much in the way of technical skills.

[Cerridwen]

10. Post this about 20 more times and you'll have a battalion.

Don't ever wonder why the "right" gets their message out while Democrats can't find their fucking pants.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swede]

14. You don't agree with my opinion,therefore I am a propgandist.

Weak.

[Hart2008]

15. Actually, I wasn't referring to you. NT

[Hart2008]

26. Too many here believe and repeat M$M propaganda. NT

[Prometheus Bound]

13. Reuters alleges mercenaries from CIA, UK, France, Jordan, Qatar, Turkey, Egypt and the UAE

Libya "mercenary" claim turns spotlight on special ops
Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:32pm IST

.....Ibrahim's use of the word may have been intended as a reference to special forces employed as private military contractors to provide "a degree of deniability", Joshi said. "The more distant they are from western governments, it's much less of a politically sensitive issue," he said.

....."Western special forces were less involved with combat on the ground, and more focused on supplying NATO forces with intelligence on targets, supplying arms and training the rebels," said Barak Seener, a research fellow at RUSI.

.....A group of British diplomats, reported to have included special forces soldiers, was humiliatingly captured near Benghazi during an attempt to make contact with rebel forces.

Since then, special forces operations appear to have been more productive, involving personnel from Britain, France, Jordan, Qatar, Turkey, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates, according to media reports.

Rebel units in Tripoli were secretly armed so they could rise up and help take the capital, while British agents infiltrated the city to deploy radio equipment to help target NATO air strikes in a way that would avoid civilian casualties.

France sent dozens of military advisers to organise and train the rebels. France also delivered arms to the rebels that had been supplied by Qatar.

Reuters correspondents in the field report having seen apparent evidence of foreign special forces on the ground, although their activities were never made clear. Rebels, whose accounts could not be confirmed, also spoke of assistance from CIA agents.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/09/20/idINIndia-59443120110920

[Hart2008]

16. Thank you for posting this. Yes, plausible deniability indeed.

If Quaddafi is really as unpopular as has been reported, then why the urgency to take his last strongholds?

Why not just wait him out like a hostage situation?

I suspect that the foreign powers are afraid of all of those guns Quaddafi distributed, and want to get them locked away again quickly before the Libyan people realize that this was not a revolution, but only a coup. When the Libyan tribes realize what the actual power structure will be, and who is getting the biggest share of the oil wealth, there will likely be more fighting. The foreigners must not believe that time is really on their side.

[al bupp]

17. Like the OP, this report bases the allegation solely on the statement by Musa Ibrahim

His extravagent using of lies throughout the conflict has been so transparent to most observers, that he has little credibility left to risk by offering this one.

[Distant Observer]

19. Now THIS is a transparent falsehood; JUST READ THE RUETER'S REPORT !!

I don't know about the claim regarding captured mercenaries, but there are numerous independent reports on special forces operations in Libya coordinating the rebel offensive and the NATO strikes.

[al bupp]

21. You may scream all you want, sir, but it doesn't change the facts

I have read the article, and it makes no claims of foreign special forces being used to coordinate rebel military operations. Rather, it says:

Western nations have sent special forces in the past, and media have reported that private security firms have aided anti-Gaddafi forces in training, targeting and with leadership. Gulf Arab states have also sent trainers and arms.

This seems like a far cry from mercenaries. I might add that using special forces in the targeting of NATO's strikes so that they avoid civilian casualties seems like a good idea to me.

[Prometheus Bound]

22. "Special forces, private security firms, trainers". Mercenaries are mercenaries.

[Hart2008]

23. So "targeting and leadership" is not coordinating or participating in military operations?

War is Peace!
Day is night!
Black is white!

Although, using special forces who are out of uniform and get caught pointing lasers at targets to guide bombs onto targets sounds like espionage, for which they may be executed, since the Geneva conventions would not apply to those caught out of their uniforms.

Perhaps the first pictures we will see will be their corpses after execution?

[al bupp]

29. I didn't allege that NATO wasn't participating in the military operations

I said the Musa Ibrahim is a well-known serial lier, and I do not suggest that you hold your breath waiting for him to be proven otherwise.

Furthermore, the article in the OP has a much more circumspect take on what non-Libyan forces have been doing in-country, than the kind of wild claims being made in this thread. Just calling that Orwellian doesn't make it so.

[Distant Observer]

30. Your op falsely claimed that the source for Reuters was Ibrahim. But feel free to pretend otherwise

The fact is that there are numerous report of special forces activity in Libya. Both British and French forces have been seen and described. NATO has denied they are acting officially.

[al bupp]

32. I meant that Ibrahim was the source for claim of capture of foreign special forces in Bani Walid

I think you are exaggerating the role of foreign special forces in Libya. I am not denying their presence there, in fact, I support it. I think that their material and technical assistance has helped to shorten the conflict and, by spotting & confirming targets, reduced civilian casualties. I do not think their participation means they are running the show.

[Distant Observer]

35. Ibrahim is kinda irrelevant with so many other sources re covert special forces running war

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/levich200911.html

[al bupp]

37. With sources like that, you really don't need Musa, do you?

The unsourced (anonymous hackers) youtube recording completely sells the point, doesn't it? We'll try to nevermind the obvious biases of the publisher, or any axes they may have to grind.

[Romulox]

20. I wonder what time the "spontaneous" tearing down of the statue of Saddam is planned for...

I mean "Ghaddafi", of course! :eyes: