Entitlements? Damned right we're entitiled.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

From Daily KOS

Right now, in today's political debate, the number one word we need to embrace: entitlement.

I see lots of arguments that by calling the core programs of our social safety net—Social Security and Medicare in particular—entitlements, we're somehow falling into the Republican trap, that it's already a dirty word and that by using it we're diminishing the importance of the programs.

Hogwash. Let's just get the basics here of what the word "entitled" means as it pertains to these programs: "a legal right or a just claim to receive or do something."

Legal right? Just claim? I think we've got that covered. By all means, there's a legal right and just claim to these monies by the people who have paid into the funds for their entire working lives.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/18/1017981/-Entitled-Damned-right-were-entitled

[Uncle Joe]

1. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin.

[roguevalley]

31. paying into social security et al isn't entitlements. if that is the

definition then so are 401's and stock portfolios. If the same shit applied to them and they were told to go fuck themselves when they wanted to collect -MOOCHERS! ENTITLEMENT QUEENS!- that definition would disappear.

[dkf]

2. You are entitled to collect from later generations of workers.

As your grandparents and parents were entitled to collect funds from you.

That is the social contract that enables the funding of our social programs.

The question is if we've already spent the next generation into oblivion or not with our deficit plus our medical care plus our retirement.

Good luck to us collecting all that.


And if the government can't collect it, they will print it, which will depress the value of the funds meant to keep you afloat.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

4. Exactly

These elders paid for our schooling and many other things while we were growing up. It's called being a part of a civilized society.

[dkf]

7. Yet there is a limit to what you can saddle others with.

At some point they just may rebel.

[99th_Monkey]

10. +1

[DrunkenBoat]

15. Well, the answer to your question is "No". So that settles that.

[dkf]

22. Yes not entitled contractually, but morally if you believe kids should take care if their elders.

But I'm not sure that exists in our society anymore. How many kids open up their houses and pocket books to their parents nowadays? People prize their privacy more.

[DrunkenBoat]

27. That wasn't your question. Do you read your own posts? If not that would explain a lot.

Your question was:

"The question is if we've already spent the next generation into oblivion"

ANSWER IS NO.

[dkf]

28. Oops I confused the thread and thought it was a reference to the contractual obligation.

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. In the same sense that my parents were entitled to collect from me.

SS is insurance. If you pay the premiums, you're entitled to the benefits. The fact that most of those benefits are being financed by other people's premiums is immaterial.

[doc03]

3. I have read many a post on DU that claims it is not

our money and we are not entitled to anything.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

6. Really?

I guess I've missed those.

[doc03]

8. Really! They may be Rethugs posing as Democrats but

yes I have gotten in that argument with some here in the past.

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. K&R. We do indeed have to destroy their reframing/demonization of our social rights.

[Canuckistanian]

9. Exactly right

It's a RIGHT, not just some "handout" that can be taken back at any time.

LAWS must be changed to reduce these benefits.

I'd LOVE to see any legal challenge to ANY reduction in benefits that goes right up to the Supreme Court.

[dkf]

12. Actually once the trust fund "runs out" it can be reduced without legislation

Social security can only pay out if it has funds in it's account or if congress budgets it.

[DrunkenBoat]

16. Social security isn't paid out of the Trust Fund. It's paid out of FICA taxes.

The Trust Fund represents an accumulation of unused FICA taxes, over & above the checks issued to retirees.

[dkf]

20. There is already more coming out than comes in through FICA taxes.

That extra comes out of the trust fund or has to be budgeted through the general fund.

[DrunkenBoat]

21. Only because of Obama's FICA cut. But since what's going out represents

FICA taxes workers ALREADY PAID, who cares?

I really don't understand where you're coming from & why you think anything you're saying is important. Sounds like conservative talking points to me.

[dkf]

24. It's how the system works for gods sakes. Geez.

Sometimes I wonder if facts matter for either party.

[DrunkenBoat]

26. The system doesn't run on the Trust Fund. That's a FACT, & I don't know why you're

trying to throw smoke up.

[dkf]

29. It does if the payments exceed the revenues.

[TBF]

14. Flemming vs. Nestor

I'd love to see this one overturned.

A summary:

In this 1960 Supreme Court decision Nestor's denial of benefits was upheld even though he had contributed to the program for 19 years and was already receiving benefits. Under a 1954 law, Social Security benefits were denied to persons deported for, among other things, having been a member of the Communist party. Accordingly, Mr. Nestor's benefits were terminated. He appealed the termination arguing, among other claims, that promised Social Security benefits were a contract and that Congress could not renege on that contract. In its ruling, the Court rejected this argument and established the principle that entitlement to Social Security benefits is not contractual right.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/nestor.html

[Paper Roses]

11. I paid for it, I am not entitled, I'm due my return!

[dkf]

13. Tell that to your kids.

[DrunkenBoat]

17. Better to tell it to the corprotacracy driving down their wages so they can skim off more of the

surplus.

The elephant in the room that you are so careful to avoid.

[dkf]

18. Between employers and taxes, they have no chance at a really good life.

It's depressing

[DrunkenBoat]

19. And the talking points don't help.

[RebelOne]

23. Fortunately, I am now collecting my entitlement.

I paid my social security taxes for more than 52 years and I am now entitled to that money. It is mine.

[Force11]

32. Not so fast mr mines

The money you want should be there, yes, it should. Fact is, it's just not. It is not there. There is no piggy bank where all the money collected for SS goes to. We've all been conned by the greatest shell game ever perpetrated. In the real world, if you paid, you should be able to collect. When there are mo rules for politicians and no one is watching or cares much anyway, BAM! Stolen money from the public to pay their campaign supporting companies. You have been lied to. Bamboozeled, had, tricked, swindled, got, fooled. Trusting politicians to do what they say is like trusting your dog to not eat a steak on the floor when you leave the room. It's just going to happen. Term limits could help. No one should be in congress for 30 years mr. Mines

[Imagevision]

25. Bush ripped off Fica to use in invading Iraq war...

[RB TexLa]

30. Speak for yourself, I do not feel myself to be entitled to a damn thing from anyone.

whether I paid for it or not.

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. Of course you do.

Do you think you're entitled to benefits from the insurance company if your house burns down?

The fact that the benefit is primarily paid for by someone else's premiums is immaterial.

Social Security is insurance. If you experience the conditions for which the insurance indemnifies you, you are entitled to the prescribed benefit.

[RB TexLa]

35. No I do not. I do not expect of others. Insurance companies find ways to not pay claims.

I accept this as fact. Sorry I don't have "I got to get mine," attitude toward life.