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House just passed bill to empower expansion of charter schools nationally.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 01:03 PM
Original message
House just passed bill to empower expansion of charter schools nationally.
And it now goes to the Senate. It is of course a "bipartisan" bill. It passed the House by 364-54.

This bill could be the death knell of public education in this country. It passed the House by a huge margin, although there is more and more evidence that charter schools do no better than public schools. There is plenty of evidence that the public taxpayer money going to charter groups is devastating traditional public education.

Bill to expand charter schools moves on to U.S. Senate

WASHINGTON — With a largely bipartisan vote, the U.S. House of Representatives this week approved legislation aimed at expanding and promoting charter schools throughout the country.

The Empowering Parents through Quality Charter Schools Act, passed 364-54, now goes to the Senate for further consideration. Although the bill, designated as HR 2218, had wide backing from both parties, including "ayes" from Rep. Chellie Pingree, D-Maine, and Rep. Frank Guinta, R-N.H., skepticism about the effectiveness of charter schools looms.

Organizations opposed to the bill include the National Education Association, the nation's largest teacher organization, the American Association of School Administrators and Parents Across America.

According to staffers on the Education and the Workforce Committee, from which the legislation emerged, HR 2218 is designed to facilitate states' expansion of charter schools and make it easier for them to obtain federal funding, as well as support an evaluation of such schools and encourage them to recruit troubled students.


Meanwhile, back in the world of education reality...we have known for years that charter schools do not outperform public schools. We have known that they can get higher test scores because they can be selective about their students.

From 2006 USA Today:

Charter schools fail to top their public peers

Independently run, publicly financed charter schools perform no better than comparable public schools, long-awaited federal data suggested Tuesday. Long considered a ticket out for students in poor public schools, charter schools have proliferated nationwide and are among reforms favored by the Bush administration. In Washington, D.C., one in four students attends one.

But Tuesday's report, which for the first time compares the performance of students in charters with that of public school peers in similar neighborhoods, finds that charter school students lag slightly.

The data show, for instance, that charter school students in 2003 were several points behind their counterparts in both reading and math in fourth and eighth grades. Standardized math scores in urban charters also lagged, but reading scores were comparable.

The results prompted Mark Schneider, commissioner of the National Center for Education Statistics, to comment that the charter school movement is "not doing harm."


Yeh, well it is doing some harm now. Public schools are being defunded at an alarming rate.

We also were reminded of the failure of charter schools to outperform public ones in 2010 by Diane Ravitch. From the Collegiate Times.

Charter schools fail on promise to outperform public schools

As an education historian, I have often warned against the seductive lure of grand ideas to reform education. Our national infatuation with education fads and reforms distracts us from the steady work that must be done.

Our era is no different. We now face a wave of education reforms based on the belief that school choice, test-driven accountability and the resulting competition will dramatically improve student achievement.

Once again, I find myself sounding the alarm that the latest vision of education reform is deeply flawed. But this time my warning carries a personal rebuke.

For much of the last two decades, I was among those who jumped aboard the choice and accountability bandwagon. Choice and accountability, I believed, would offer a chance for poor children to escape failing schools. Testing and accountability, I thought, would cast sunshine on low-performing schools and lead to improvement. It all seemed to make sense, even if there was little empirical evidence, just promise and hope.

Today there is empirical evidence, and it shows clearly that choice, competition and accountability as education reform levers are not working. But with confidence bordering on recklessness, the Obama administration is plunging ahead, pushing an aggressive program of school reform — codified in its signature Race to the Top program — that relies on the power of incentives and competition. This approach may well make schools worse, not better.


Ravitch was the assistant Secretary of Education for the first Bush presidency. We should heed her words about this crazy push to kill public education.

In my state alone charter schools have failed at an alarming rate.

When it comes to the failure rate, charter Schools – operated at public expense by private companies – tanked on the 2011 FCAT. And an explanation provided by a major charter school booster does not appear to make the grade.

The numbers, first reported by CBS4 News Tuesday, are striking:

Of Florida’s 2,280 public elementary and middle schools, only 17 scored an “F” on the FCAT. Of the state’s 270 Charter elementary and middle schools, 15 flunked.

Charter schools had a failure rate 740% higher than that of public schools.

Charter school boosters were working damage control Wednesday.


It seems to me this bill would take the power from states to control the growth of charter schools.

While it isn't clear how many new charters schools would be created if the bill becomes law, a House Education and the Workforce Committee spokeswoman said "the legislation will give states greater opportunities to expand and replicate the state's highest-performing charter schools."

Charter school bill


It seems Eli Broad was correct when he said the "stars were aligned" when Arne Duncan was appointed.

The agenda of the Presidents Bush has come to fruition under a Democratic administration. It angers me greatly though I am retired as a teacher.

There is no justification for Democrats to be on board with the defunding and dismantling of public education.

364-54 in favor...that is a scary figure.



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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. I want names
of every freaking DEMOCRAT who voted for this. If mine is on there, it's Strike 2.

I hear ya, mafloridian. I'm in the fight with you. Just tell me what to do.

SOLIDARITY!!!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'm looking...
:hi:

I am livid.
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pepito Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. more $$ellouts
Chareter Schools=WallStreet Profits...when the hell will Amerikca wake up...STRIKE back?
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supertony Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
47. i think it is easy
i think it is easy
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Some words from Democrats about this sell-out bill.
Edited on Sun Sep-18-11 01:14 PM by madfloridian
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/181219-house-passes-bill-revising-federal-charter-school-program

"In floor debate last Thursday, Democrats in particular praised the bipartisan nature of the bill. Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.) said the bill would return charter schools to their original purpose, which is to help “improve the public school system.” She and others added that by ensuring a more inclusive enrollment in charter schools, they would help avoid a situation in which public schools are left with only disadvantaged students.

Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.), ranking member of the House Education and the Workforce Committee, said Thursday that charter schools have a role to play, especially with disadvantaged kids.

“These schools have often become the mythbusters of what’s possible for a demographic of children that have all too often been written off,” he said."

To Woolsey...that is a bunch of BS. The charter schools do NOT have to do what you say. And you can not make them keep kids they don't want.

I am tired of the BS.


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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. It is a bill to foster private profit, not education, I am sure profits will be good
Even if the product (education) must suffer to meet quarterly goals.

I understand they can hire uncertified teachers as well, they are qualified to give tests I hope as that appears to be the extent of education now.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Ah, yes, Senate language approved teachers not being certified.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/congress/a-highly-qualified-gift-from-c.html

"Should teachers still in training programs be considered “highly qualified” to teach kids?

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit recently ruled that they aren’t, but some members of Congress think so.

Senators have included in key legislation language that would allow teachers still in training to be considered “highly qualified” so they can meet a standard set in the federal No Child Left Behind law.

..."Allowing non-certified teachers to be considered “highly qualified” would be a gift to programs such as Teach for America, which gives newly graduated college students from elite institutions five weeks of summer training before sending them into low-performing schools. Teach for America participants, who commit to staying in the program for two years, then continue education studies while they are teaching."
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Where else could one be deemed "highly qualified" before earning a "qualified" rating?
Sheer insanity.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes, it is insanity. The whole thing is insane. It makes no sense, it hurts the students...
it hurts the teachers with experience, and it solves no problems.

:mad:
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. As you've frequently pointed out
the ultimate purpose is to de-professionalize teaching. This serves two purposes: it destroys the ability of teachers to demand living wages, and it eases the transition to delivery of empty, lifeless McEducations as a product.
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lindysalsagal Donating Member (444 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
40. Union busting. Period.
:puke:
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
70. and most importantly,
millions of easily pliable, worker drones unable to think for themselves...
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. .
Edited on Sun Sep-18-11 03:36 PM by sudopod
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. What?? They are called "highly qualified" while still training, and THEN
they get sent to the low-performing schools???


Is this completely nonsensical, or am I missing something? :shrug:
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supertony Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #16
49. what's wrong ?
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. I go BRAWNDO sckhool now. Lernz lots!
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hooray for bipartisanship!!!
:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:
:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here is a link to the yes and no votes.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-705

4 FL Dems voted no....good for them.

Aye FL-1 Miller, Jeff
Aye FL-2 Southerland, Steve
Aye FL-3 Brown, Corrine
Aye FL-4 Crenshaw, Ander
Aye FL-5 Nugent, Richard
Aye FL-6 Stearns, Clifford
Aye FL-7 Mica, John
Aye FL-8 Webster, Daniel
Aye FL-9 Bilirakis, Gus
Aye FL-10 Young, C. W.
No FL-11 Castor, Kathy
Aye FL-12 Ross, Dennis
Aye FL-13 Buchanan, Vern
Aye FL-14 Mack, Connie
Aye FL-15 Posey, Bill
Aye FL-16 Rooney, Thomas
No FL-17 Wilson, Frederica
Aye FL-18 Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana
No FL-19 Deutch, Ted
Aye FL-20 Wasserman Schultz, Debbie
Aye FL-21 Diaz-Balart, Mario
Aye FL-22 West, Allen
No FL-23 Hastings, Alcee
Aye FL-24 Adams, Sandy
Aye FL-25 Rivera, David
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
43. This is outrageous. WTF?
I expected the Repukes to vote for this but the Dems too?

GRRRR!!
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supertony Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
50. seems funny
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-20-11 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
91. My rep, Lofgren, voted yes, so did Pelosi.
Edited on Tue Sep-20-11 01:01 AM by alp227
at least the progressive caucus people voted against this. SO DID RON PAUL!
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. This morning I saw a story on ABC pushing the notion of cyber schools too.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yep, it is called Digital Promise.
http://www.citytowninfo.com/career-and-education-news/articles/white-house-announces-digital-promise-initiative-11091602

""Created by Republicans and Democrats and championed by a coalition of educators and business leaders, Digital Promise is an independent nonprofit that will help spur breakthrough learning technologies," said U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan. "And it will help make sure Americans of all ages and races, regions and backgrounds can benefit from them. By harnessing the extraordinary work being done by educators, innovators, and citizens across this country, Digital Promise can help prepare Americans - and America - to succeed in the 21st Century."

The project was actually authorized in 2008 by law, and should be receiving money from the U.S. Department of Education as well as a variety of philanthropies, reported The Hill.

Additionally, TechAmerican Foundation, the nonprofit arm of an industry lobbying firm, is to take steps forward and outline top policy objectives for the first year. Groups such as the Information Technology Industry Council and the Software and Information Industry Association are expected to provide input.

One of the first projects will be to research the potential of so-called "digital" tutors to help students improve in subjects such as math, according to The Hill. Another idea is the creation of a "League of Innovative" schools that would try out new technologies and ascertain the ways to keep costs down, reported USA Today."


I would love to peek behind the funding curtain...

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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. "should be receiving money from the U.S. Department of Education as well as a variety of philanthrop
ies"

First thing that comes to mind is Bill Gates.

Am I way off?


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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
93. Computerizing a proven defective education model is not going to improve education.
Replacing a poor system with a worse computerized system is not progress. Having worked as a computer programmer for several years, I can report from personal observation, that much of the software out in the real world is poorly designed, poorly written, insufficiently debugged, and frustrating to use as well as maintain. I worked for some very large corporations.

A computerized education system will be no better, and, considering that the clients will be children and the assessors of the efficacy of these systems will be the ones pushing and profiting from these overpriced boondoggles, the outcomes are guaranteed to be far worse than what we have now

Computerized education under charter schools will amount to child abuse. You can dislike a "poor" teacher. How can one relate to a computer?

A personal tale to explain how abuse can occur in such an environment.

Several years ago, I applied to a software company for a programming job. I was told that I would have to pass a test on programming. I took the test and didn't hear from the company. I called and was told that there was no opening.

About six months later, I get a call from a new recruiter for the firm who was looking to hire programmers for a project. I said I was interested. He said that I had to come in and take a computer test on programming. I told him that I already took the test. He admitted that. I asked him why I needed to take the test again. Had I done poorly?

His response totally astonished me. I had not only completed the test, but I had aced the test. So, why did they want me to take the test again. It seems that the test was designed to fit a "bell" curve. It was designed so that "nobody" could complete it and nobody could get such a high score as I did.

Therefore, it was assumed that I had "cheated" somehow, and they wanted me to take the test again. I declined.

Seeing how much (misplaced) faith is put in computers by management, I foresee the development of all kinds of psychological abuse resulting from heavy dependence on computers by school systems, where the students are not even given a chance to defend themselves against poorly designed teaching software.

And, it is guaranteed that a lot of teaching software, like software in the commercial world, will be poorly designed, poorly written, and poorly debugged.


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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Not all charters are terrible and they certainly all do not make a profit. Charters just like
Edited on Sun Sep-18-11 02:38 PM by Pisces
public schools are constantly doing fundraisers. Mad has an agenda and that is Charters are evil. That is fine, however, charters are hear to stay and maybe some of these dems were trying to make
the bill better.

The majority of public schools are great, however, where they are seriously lacking in underprivileged areas, parents should have a choice. Everybody may not agree but there are many parents whose kids have been part of charters that give glowing testimonials. Smaller class size, art, music, pe (things that many schools no longer provide), are all part of the curriculum.

As with anything it is not a black and white issue and it is not good vs evil.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Whoa, that is so out of line. I can't believe you said that about me.
Edited on Sun Sep-18-11 02:42 PM by madfloridian
And I can't believe you read that into this post.

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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. This is not personal, nor is it an attack. The majority of your posts are denigrating charter
schools, Waiting for Superman etc. I understand that it is your POV, I was pointing out that maybe some of the Dems voting for the change realize that Charters are here to stay and they want some input on the rules.

I don't think that all charters are bad, and they have benefitted many. They also do not make gargantuan profits that you allude too. Many who open charters have been schools teachers and administrators for years (like you) and want a chance to show what could be done with a different curriculum.

As I stated in my original posts, not all of them are good or have good administrators. I have seen good ones and when done right they can work.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Apparently what you said is acceptable here now. OK with me.
I will just be sure I won't be able to read it anymore.

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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. I didn't call you any names, or insult you???? I also made sure to clarify that I was not attacking
you. It is my opinion based on how many Charter bashing threads you have written that you have an agenda against charters. Why is this not fair to say? I think you are being overly sensitive.
You don't need to put me on ignore. I won't bother you anymore. I'm sorry if I have offended you.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #36
46. Charter bashing? Kinda like some calling people "Obama bashing" if they
engage in constructive criticism of Obama.

Your term is inaccurate. madfloridian does not engage in bashing of charters. What she does is objectively critique them.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
69. Thank you.
:hi:
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
68. I'm a genuine charter school basher myself.
Charter schools are merely ways for private capital to get its fangs into the $500 billion spent annually on public education. I think the "reformers" call it venture philanthropy or something like that. Some of us call it vulture philanthropy. It's just another tentacle of the increasingly pervasive privatization of society killer squid. It is ironic that many of these billionaire "philanthropists" need public money to save the poor they help create from inferior schools that are the result of the poverty they helped create and have no intention of changing, unless privatizing public education will do more for poor kids than privatizing the economy has. :rofl:
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #68
92. Spot on comment. Charter schools are driven by the profit motive.
Computerizing a proven defective education model is not going to improve education.

Replacing a poor system with a worse computerized system is not progress. Having worked as a computer programmer for several years, I can report from personal observation, that much of the software out in the real world is poorly designed, poorly written, insufficiently debugged, and frustrating to use as well as maintain. I worked for some very large corporations.

A computerized education system will be no better, and, considering that the clients will be children and the assessors of the efficacy of these systems will be the ones pushing and profiting from these overpriced boondoggles, the outcomes are guaranteed to be far worse than what we have now.

Computerized education under charter schools will amount to child abuse. You can dislike a "poor" teacher. How can one relate to a computer?

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tgal Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
73. "Charter bashing threads"
bs lies.

She points out the truth.

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tgal Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
72. Yes it IS a PERSONAL ATTACK
On madfloridian.

Charter schools are meant to bust unions.

Charter school are meant to DESTROY PUBLIC EDUCATION.

Arne Duncan is a slime bag Corporate Tool. PERIOD.


"Dems voting for change"....uh, destroying Public Education is not "change" it is adopting more of the right wing Corporate Control and profit crap the fake Corporate dems and DINOS love to spew.

Nothing Democratic or progressive or liberal about it. Period.


What is your experience in Public Education?




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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. :/
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HubertHeaver Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. The Charter movement is merely the vehicle to re-segregate
education. They (the charter schools) are not held to the same standard as the public schools and are allowed to "counsel out" students deemed to be "problems."
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. yup! separate and unequal...
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DrunkenBoat Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. "Mad has an agenda" -- & so do you. Comments about "good vs evil" are irrelevant
Edited on Sun Sep-18-11 04:29 PM by DrunkenBoat
distractions. The issue is whether you want to marketize education. I don't, & it's irrelevant to me that some charters are "good". Comments like those are a means of distracting from the real issues.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. Good point that it does not matter if good or bad.... it's a dangerous direction.
Yes, it does distract from the harm they are doing to education. It's about something more serious than whether a charter school is deemed good or bad...way more serious.

Thanks for the comment.
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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. Ah, then in the future all charters will be Walmart and McDonald's Schools.
That is a future I'm not looking forward to.

THAT'S why charters are bad.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
39. My daughter is a teacher at a charter school in South Florida. 'Nuff said. n/t
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
51. No, not all charters are terrible,
But as the figures show, overall charters do a worse job of educating our children than public schools do. As far as making a profit goes, it is a piss poor charter that is not run to make a profit.

Speaking of agendas, have you looked in the mirror lately? Your uber-support for all things Obama is well known around here, and it isn't surprising that, since Obama is pushing charters as part of RTTT, you're pushing charters as well.

The fact of the matter is that charters are another step toward a two tier education system. A top tier for those that can afford to pay for it, and a defunded, undersupplied public education for the rest.

If public schools are seriously lacking, there is a reason for that, namely a lack of money. We have clung to an outmoded model of public school funding, namely funding via property taxes. That works when you have a good tax base, but when that disappears, as so often happens in inner city and rural areas, then you need the federal government to step in and fill that need. Sadly, the fed doesn't do that.

Meanwhile, for every "glowing testimonial" that you can produce for charters, two very negative testimonials against charters can be produced. Testimonials from special needs students, whose needs aren't met, testimonials from students who aren't accepted, testimonials from students who were accepted, only to find their money taken by the charter and their child kicked back to public schools when the first semester grades come in, testimonials from parents who find that charters do discriminate on the basis of race and class. Meanwhile, four testimonials praising public schools can be produced for every one praising charters. People like you find it fashionable to bash public schools and the teachers in public schools, but the simple fact of the matter is that despite low wages, reduced funding,and uninformed meddling with test scores and education policy on the highest levels by politicians more interested in using public education as a whipping boy and political tool than in helping public education, public schools continue to turn out quality graduates by the millions, year in, year out.

Your motives for supporting charters is obvious, your attacks on those who stand with public education are pathetic. But let me guess, the basis for your current situation in life was given to you by public education. A shame you want to kick it to the curb as an adult. Have you no shame?
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #51
80. If I am suppose to be ashamed of supporting the President or having an opinion contrary to yours,
then No, I have no shame. I am a product of public education, one that had art, p.e. and music ( currently not the case for most public schools). I do not bash teachers or the public school system.
Everyone would probably agree that the public school system needs some reform. I am sure most on this board would agree that poverty is the reason for underperforming schools and uninvolved parents.

It is interesting that anyone with differing opinions or any support for the ideas behind the charter movement get ceremoniously bashed by the same people. I have no agenda other than to reelect Barack Obama to a second term so that we are not made to suffer Rick Perry or Mittens. I am on a democratic forum, I would think that supporting the President would be common here.

People like me have children in the school system who want it to be better, and I want art, music and p.e. as part of the curriculum, not something that is a special treat. I also want my kids in manageable classroom sizes, not 30 kids to a room. How insane of me to want a few luxuries, or question how my children are being taught. People like me volunteer at the school to help the underpaid, overworked teachers who no longer have assistants in their classrooms. People like me don't like my kids being guinea pigs or used to make a political point. People like me want the best education for my children and depending on where I live that may mean I have to consider a charter vs the underperforming public school. So while you imagine that I am bashing teachers, you go right ahead an bash a parent whose main concern is not your feelings but the education of my children.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
59. "...charters are hear to stay" HEAR to stay?
Did you attend a charter school?
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They_Live Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
82. sorry to nitpick
"here to stay" not "hear"
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. Not to worry. Obama will veto it. Won't he? K&R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. Guess one group behind the bill. Will Marshall's Progressive Policy Institute.
http://progressivepolicy.org/ppi-statement-on-empowering-parents-through-quality-charter-schools-act

States which allow more charters will be favored with more grants from Arne. That's called bribery.

"PPI has long asserted that we need to spur faster growth of the best charter networks to lift overall quality in choice and open more slots to the neediest students. In that vein, H.R. 2218 allows state entities (i.e. state educational agencies, state charter school boards) to provide subgrants from funds received by the Secretary of Education to charter school developers aiming to open new charter schools and expand and replicate existing high-quality charter schools. Under this new paradigm, grantees will be shown preference in states that do not impose any limitation on the number or percentage of charter schools or in the number of students that may attend charter schools. Additional preference is given to states that ensure equitable financing, as compared to traditional public schools, for charter schools and students in a prompt manner. This focus on equitable finance is a welcomed change since a recent study from Ball State University on funding inequality found charter schools, especially in urban areas, to be severely underfunded in comparison to their public school counterparts.

At a time of backlash from the education establishment against reform in general, and charters in particular, the House action is an encouraging sign of enduring policy commitment to closing school achievement gaps. PPI looks forward to future legislation that continues to support charter expansion while at the same time taking a serious approach to the closure of any low-performing charters."

Gee, backlash against reform...can't imagine why.


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Scottybeamer70 Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thank you, madfloridian,,
I can't believe someone said you have an "agenda.".......Wow..............
It's all about the money. It's always about the money. I would love to
know just how many congrescritters have their hand in the honey pot on this.
I'm betting it's more than just a few.
Not only does congress not care about the middle class and the poor in this
country, they also do not care about the students in this country. That is
becoming more and more clear with every passing day!
Race to the top? yeah, right! More like screaming toward the bottom.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. The deregulation and privatization of public education using public money.
Ain't it amazing?
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. What about homeschooling? Anyone can decide to homeschool and they get the money that would have
gone to the public school. This is a much greater concern to me, as most of these are fundamental nut jobs wanting to have a Christian curriculum. One that eliminates evolution, and rewrites history.
This should be eliminated immediately.
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DrunkenBoat Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. That's how they get the fundies on board with their program. Don't worry, when public
schools are neutralized, homeschooling will be made illegal.

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. we`ll have to go into the woods like they did in Fahrenheit 451
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historylovr Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
53. Exactly. nt
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historylovr Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #27
52. I got money that would have gone to public schools?
That's news to me. As far as I know no homeschooler gets money that would have gone to public schools. Maybe things have changed since I stopped? I bought my own materials *and* paid my property taxes, and was glad to do both. I never saw one dime of public school money. And I didn't get the educator's refund either. Would have been nice if I had. :)

I'm not trying to pick an argument with you, by the way. I just honestly don't know of any state that gives public school funds to homeschoolers.
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #52
64. Homeschoolers get money to purchase curriculum and vouchersto use for additional classes like music
etc. I know because my sister in law home schools and she received vouchers for other activities and curriculum was paid for.
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historylovr Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #64
75. Maybe in her state.
It's the first time I've heard of it, and I homeschooled for seven years in two different states. But laws do vary from state to state, so I can understand your SIL's experience being different from mine. It is not the norm everywhere, from what I've seen and read from others on various message boards, unless things have changed drastically in the last two years. But now you have me curious where such a thing exists.
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. California. She received vouchers that allow her to use for pe, music et. She received funds to pay
for her curriculum. Someone comes to her house and reviews the work and progress her child has accomplished once a month. This money isn't free and Ca. is hurting financially. I assumed this was the law everywhere.
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historylovr Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Ah, okay. Thanks.
No, not everywhere. Well, a lot of states have the review of work and progress stipulation in their laws, but they don't give money. Interesting. Thanks again. :)
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freshstart Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
62. Yes, thank you Madfloridian
I agree with your POV and I've learned a lot from your posts. What I personally believe is that vouchers, charters, etc. are aimed at breaking down the public school system because "conservatives" don't believe that it is our collective duty to educate children and because there are those that want to get their hands on the money we put into education. I don't think these people give a damn about educating kids. I appreciate all of the time and effort that goes into your research and I know that you are passionate about education. Keep doing what you are doing, your posts are one of the main reasons I joined the DU:)
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #62
65. as thomas jefferson stated
"there is no democracy without education." In very small areas, there are some in colorado, there are charter schools. We're talking about a very low population, like fifty. However, I favor public schools over charter schools, one reason is that a public school takes all students. There are charter schools that "pick" who attends their school. My niece, who was a teacher, put her child in a very competitive charter school--only first grade and the kid had homework every night-lots of homework. Almost burned him out. Changed him to public school and he is more relaxed and happier. Now, his sister also attends the public school.

If this country went to total privatization of schools, if I had kids I'd homeschool them. I'd especially give them an education on labor struggles and the gilded age with a dose of trickle on greedy reaganism, which I bet the "corporate" charter schools wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #62
66. Thank you for that.
Welcome to DU. :hi:
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
28. Here's an interesting short post on this general subject:
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supertony Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #28
48. oh my.................
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #28
63. Thanks, I missed that.
Very true posts and signature line. :hi:
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
31. Congress takes their Marching Orders from the Koch Bros....
This is what the Koch Bros want... so it will come to pass.

The Koch Bros along with the Broad Foundation.. gut American schools and get the cash....
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
33. this will pass the senate and obama will sign it.

do you realize that community led home schooling could be the only answer left?
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. That is extreme at best. Nothing has taken place yet, we currently have charters that have
not put public schools out of business. Why the hyperbole????
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tgal Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
74. No is isn't.
You are VERY misinformed.

Very.

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lindysalsagal Donating Member (444 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
41. No reason to make teaching a profession or get the degrees, not when they cost
Edited on Sun Sep-18-11 08:44 PM by lindysalsagal
$300k, for the undergrad and the grad degree.

This is a dagger in the heart of education, kids, families, and democracy.

These charters will be the GOP's way of indoctrinating future voters. They'll have no tenure, no job security, and so will sell whatever political crap they're told.

We'll be teaching religion, bigotry, intolerance of other religions. This will also be class-warfare. We're now on the english system, people. If you're rich, your kids get educated. If not, they get whatever's left over, with constant teacher turnover and instability.

You thought the parents ran the schools before????

And the sad thing is, even 5 years from now when the test scores plummet, they'll never give the money back to public schools.

This changes the definition of america, where everyone used to get educate.
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lindysalsagal Donating Member (444 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
42. I am a teacher, and I tell every young person who asks NOT to become a teacher.
That's so sad.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #42
60. I do the same, and so do other teachers I know.
It's a useless thing now to train and plan a career as a teacher. That is just tragic.

It makes me sad, too.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-18-11 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
45. Privately run schools should get zero tax money or any other money. "For profit" they can
raise the money themselves. I do not want to pay into supporting this at all.
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historylovr Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
54. Rec.
Please keep up the good work informing us on this, Mad. Even though I homeschooled for a time, I'm very supportive of public education.
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
55. Wow. That's just plain wrong.
Those charter schools are 'for profit'. Let them raise their own money.
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
56. And they wonder why many of us are
Fucking done. Better to be killed by your enemies than betrayed by your "friends""
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. Oh, and my rep - mo Hinchey - as usual
Did the right thing and voted no. One of the few people who, to paraphrase the words of Pacino, "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in." One of the very few reasons I still vote D.

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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
57. Thank you for doing this thread.
I read this story over the weekend and am totally enraged.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
61. K&R
Thank you.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
67. "Quality Charter Schools?" How about "Quality PUBLIC Schools?"
And please, save the "charter schools are public schools" responses. In some ways they are (in the way that they are financed with PUBLIC funds, which are diverted from the very schools who most need them), but in the most important ways (curriculum, compliance with all state laws/regulations and Board policy, compensation of staff and administration) they are not not.

Obama should truly be ashamed. His corporate approach towards public education is a betrayal of what public education was all about.
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lutefisk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-21-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #67
94. But there are "charter" schools within public school districts, just to make a distinction
There are public "charter" schools housed within existing public schools that are completely a part of the local school district. Because they share a building, administration, and support staff with another "school" in the same building, I would consider these entities programs, more than "charter schools", but that's the name the districts use.

There is no more private control or influence taking place than there is in any other public school. These "schools" are completely in compliance with the things you mentioned: "curriculum, compliance with all state laws/regulations and Board policy, compensation of staff and administration". These are schools fully staffed by district employees, receiving the same compensation as other staff in the district, and operating under the same rules. The difference is, the school district is trying different approaches to find ways to provide the best public education possible for students in the public school system. In other words, districts are working hard to ensure "Quality PUBLIC Schools".

I am appalled by this bill and the attacks on public schools, but the word "charter" isn't always evil, just most of the time. There should be no privatization of public education or diversion of public school money outside the public school system.

:hi: :hide:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
71. Remember back when if was only middle class "Republicans"...
...who were voting against their own interests?

Man, I sure do miss those days.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their promises.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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spedtr90 Donating Member (459 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
76. Did this bill get ANY public attention before the vote?
I thought I kept up, but this was a shocker.
I wrote a thank you to my Democratic Congressman for voting NO. I was disappointed to see he was the only MN Dem to vote NO. Even Keith Ellison was a YES. What????
I then sent messages to my Senators.
What a disaster....


“We think public schools should go away," says Teri Adams, the head of the Independence Hall Tea Party and a leading advocate — both in New Jersey and Pennsylvania — of passage of school voucher bills. “Our ultimate goal is to shut down public schools and have private schools only, eventually returning responsibility for payment to parents and private charities.”
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. Good question. I had heard nothing about it.
And I am constantly on the look out. :shrug:
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
77. It's a system just ASKING for Crooks, Criminals and Thieves to rape us of our money...
The whole charter thing is rotten.

And funny how the Limp Media or pols, don't talk about those that fail or are found to be crooked.
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joeglow3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
79. Why does it work so well in other countries
"We now face a wave of education reforms based on the belief that school choice, test-driven accountability and the resulting competition will dramatically improve student achievement."

-I am not saying charter schools are the answer, but these very things seem to work extremely well in the countries that hand us our asses on a consistent basis when it comes to education.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. Which other countries?
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joeglow3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #83
90. Sweden, New Zealand & Belgium, to name a few
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
85. mad, just got this in my email tonight:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. Thanks for posting that petition.
We were really caught off guard with that House bill. Heading to sign it.

:hi:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. It sure came out of the blue
SOS put this petition together. Please sign and forward widely!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
86. No excuse for dems whatsofuckingever.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-19-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
88. Pathetic....
My tax dollars are not for sending someones kid to private school!!! As far as I am concerned, this is a crime.
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