"Occupying" Wall St.? They're all laughing.

[itsallhappening]

Here's what's going on in this country:

Members of both political parties benefit at the polls from having us divided. They mainly accomplish that by getting the people stirred up over social issues like abortion, gay marriage, evolution/creationism, flag burning...take your pick among countless other "hot-button" issues.

And while we're all yelling at each other over those topics, the politicians of both parties and their big-wig friends in corporate America along with the Wall Street fat cats are running away with all the money.

It's no surprise that big campaign donors who own companies get taxpayer money when they demand it. All they have to do is put money into the politicians' campaign war-chest and it's a done deal. Which leaders of both parties don't do this? They all do it because we let them get away with it while we're arguing with a neighbor over whether the Pledge of Allegiance should be mandatory in schools.

Are they all to blame -- politicians, corporate big-wigs and Wall St. fat cats? Yes.

But where does it start? Washington.

They're laughing at us. Laughing all the way to the bank they bailed out.

[geckosfeet]

1. I am often confounded by some of the things I see on DU.

I think that most DU'ers are intelligent, insightful, caring, evocative, inspirational people. But how can anyone wonder why the major networks are ignoring this? Their corporate offices are a few blocks away from Wall Street. (Except for the ones in Atlanta, 'nuff said there). Wall Street owns the media. They are essentially two sides of the same coin. To expect the media to portray this as anything except a minor inconvenience to people using the sidewalk and local traffic is beyond naive.

cross posted from this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1960399&mesg_id=1960399

[Honeycombe8]

2. How many people are there? nt

[geckosfeet]

5. There are lots and lots of people.

:shrug:

[aquart]

7. Media offices on Wall Street? Where?

CBS is in the 50s. ABC is in the 60s. And NBC is in Rockefeller Center.

Are you talking cable channels?

I know some buildings were refitted for modern electonics and communication in the NoHo-Tribeca area. But what media has located downtown besides ad agencies?

[FarCenter]

15. Not only is there no media in TriBeCa, but there is little critical financial funtions there either

After 9/11, the data centers, trading floors, etc, were mostly moved elsewhere, partly at the urging of the Deparment of Homeland Security. And there are business continuity plans to relocate the rest whenever necessary.

[aquart]

34. Wall Street is not in Tribeca.

[FarCenter]

36. Sorry, should have been "in the Financial District" or "South of Canal Street"

[geckosfeet]

46. Not ON Wall Street. A few blocks away. A nice walk or a short cab ride.

Point is, they are neighbors.

[mfcorey1]

23. At least they are off their behinds and not in front of a computer screen second guessing the motive

of those who are trying to do something.

[cali]

3. First of all, issues like a woman's right to choose, marriage equality

and even evolution, aren't merely "hot button" issues. They're issues that are vitally important. I'm not willing to toss civil rights on the ash heap.

Secondly, not all politicians are owned. Not one single one of mine is. Not one. Not on the state level and not on the federal level.

[socialist_n_TN]

8. But all of those "hot button" issues are, at root,

economic problems with an economic and political solution. In the capitalist system, money, politics and power are ALL intertwined with the elites controlling all three (money, politics, and power). Marx understood this as do Marxists. Until the rest of the people understand this very BASIC truism, nothing major will change on these "hot button" issues.

[cali]

12. they're economic issues but they're not only economic issues or even

primarily economic issues and btw, huge strides have been made re rights for GLBT folks over the past 20 years. So it has changed.

[socialist_n_TN]

17. I disagree. They ARE economic issues........

How do you think that 400 families control 75% of the wealth? Because they divide the rest of us over "hot button" issues to keep us distracted from their looting of the Commons.

As to GLBT issues making huge strides, how is that going to help an average working class GLBT person when they become neofeudal serfs like the rest of us? So they can watch their same sex partner become homeless and starve on the streets without being discriminated against? And as to huge strides, I live in Tennessee. I don't see much difference. Part of the divisive conspiracy of capitalism has ALWAYS been to show a little favoritism to one group to peel them off from supporting the working class in general. It happened when they favored poor whites in the past over poor blacks, when they favored Christians over Jews. Now gay folks get a few more crumbs, so they won't try to take the entire meal. And just like favoring poor whites over poor blacks, it's working.

If we as a people can achieve economic democracy, government discrimination against ANY group will be a thing of the past. Bias will probably always be around though. Marxists have ALWAYS been the original "liberationists" and still are. But we do recognize that discrimination against ANY group has an economic base and an economic reason, vested in keeping the financial elites in power.

[cali]

20. sorry, no. I don't believe there's some overarching plot to divide people on

social issues. I don't put Soros and Buffet who must surely be two of those 400 families in the same category as the Waltons. And OK, you live in TN, but I live in Vermont, and I've seen huge changes over the last 20 years- and not just re GLBT rights.


Here's what I think: There is no conspiracy, just stupid, greedy, thoughtless assholes who don't give a fuck about the future- who aren't even capable of understanding what they're doing.

[socialist_n_TN]

21. I didn't necessarily say conspiracy.......

although I'm sure there ARE conspiracies out there. It's just the way history developes capitalism. The SYSTEM forces all of the capitalists into the same groove or they can't compete with the OTHER capitalists.

But that's OK. I don't expect everybody to get it. Or even believe it. If they did we'd all be Marxists. Unfortunately, concentration on issues OTHER than economic democracy, like it or not, plays right into the hands of those whose goal it is to enslave us ALL, gay and straight.

[cali]

24. sure you said it. don't back away from what you claimed.

and history doesn't develop anything. and no, all capitalists aren't forced into the same groove. Oh, btw, tell it to MLK.

[readmoreoften]

29. It's not a "conspiracy" it's a social structure.

And its one that will never change for good under capital because if it needs controversies to disrupt the unity of the working class--sometimes even just to get the vote from the other side of the capitalist aisle (see: Bush Administration, Tea Party)

There is no conspiracy and there are individual capitalists who are "moral" on various issues. That's irrelevant. It's a systemic problem, just like sexism and racism and this schism will always be exploited because the capitalist class needs a divided working class.

[cali]

32. I agree that it's systemic, but I think it goes beyond that

I think human nature in the aggregate is the larger, no make that the largest, problem.

[socialist_n_TN]

41. Thanks read. As often happens, you said it

better than I could! :) Although on the subject of actual conspiracies, I AM sure they are out there.

Your last sentence says it all.

[readmoreoften]

25. I disagree. (1) LGBT discrimination is economic. It's root is concern about wealth passed through

families and with bourgeois family norms of relating and getting business done. Private property means "keeping it in the family circle", so women's sexuality is heavily monitored and LGBT sexuality is unwelcome. Pressed through the church, which has always worked for the bourgeoisie (except maybe Liberation Theology, et al), the anti-gay ideology has filtered down to the people.

(2) Huge strides "have not been made" for LGBT people. LGBT people have made their own demands and a few minor demands have been met so far and we are still demanding. The passive construction of this verb is problematic.

(3) Even if you're not looking at the "nature" of LGBT oppression, the way the oppression affects you runs along a stark economic curve. LGBTs in urban poverty--and especially rural poverty--are more likely to experience high levels of violence, tranpersons still have an average income that is 50% less than heterosexual or lesbian women's salary. Job discrimination against all trans people, but especially working class and poor transpeople is stunning.

In fact, about the only rights LGBTs have obtained are local ordinances that barely hold up in a court of law and only work if you live in a city, state civil unions with negligible benefits, and now we have the right to not be kicked out of the military on the last day of our tours so that the gov't doesn't have to pay on our benefits. And, as cultural norms go, you're less likely to be fired for being gay so long as you're gender not non-conforming and don't work for a bigoted small business.

I'd say that we are beat to death and murdered less regularly, but I'm not convinced of that really. There has probably been a downtick but it's still a major major major concern.

Moreover, these sorts of schisms in the working class are flamed by the bourgeoisie for the same reason racism is flamed by them: divide and conquer.

[socialist_n_TN]

42. Agreed. And that was what I was trying to say

:)

[FarCenter]

14. The Race for the Cure in Central Park was getting similar air time on NY station

Komen Greater NYC Race for the Cure

http://www.komennyc.org/site/TR?fr_id=1230&pg=entry

I think that they have much bigger crowd in Central Park.

[itsallhappening]

39. It's just sad to see this:

"Secondly, not all politicians are owned. Not one single one of mine is. Not one. Not on the state level and not on the federal level."

Talk about being an enabler. Whew.

[Exilednight]

50. "Not on the state level and not on the federal level." That's a lie. Corporations own Obama. n/t

[orpupilofnature57]

4. I get yelled at Sometimes for bring up ,well it all seems like a big plot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory)

[awoke_in_2003]

10. I've said it before...

not sure if it was here or not, but Nancy and John are the most vicious enemies in the world when the cameras are rolling. When the cameras are shut off they chuckle and run off and have dinner together. Kabuki theater.

[aquart]

11. Yes, all rich people are evil geniuses

As opposed to worthless morons trying to hold on to unearned, inherited wealth in the dumbest, most guillotine-guaranteeing way possible. Panicky little piggies.

[orpupilofnature57]

40. Kennedy's , Roosevelt's ,Branson there's lot's of cool patriotic millionaires

None in the Bush family or their cronies for Decades!!!!!http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DKUS_enUS317US317&q=bush+book+depository

[dkf]

6. I would say this guy is laughing...

Watch The Latest Attempt To Occupy Wall Street (On A Weekend?) Live
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 09/17/2011 15:28 -0400

If there is one thing America has had a lot of, it is (failed) attempts to make a political statement by "occupying" Wall Street, although how anyone makes a "statement" on a weekend, when all the trading on Wall Street is done out of Chicago and Mahwah (and not on Saturday), and all the actual capital decisions are made out of midtown (and Shanghai) is a little confusing.

Today, Operation EmpireStateRebellion, for whom this is neither the first, nor the last attempt to organize an improvized rebellion, has proceeded with its latest such statement, which will come and go and achieve nothing, as unfortunately the welfare and entitlement society of the US is ingrained far too deeply fo anyone to actually willingly give up on their paper 201(k)s and Social Security benefits, no matter how much of an underfunded ponzi they may be.

The only time something, anything, can happen in the US is when that monthly retirement fund, annuity report or Schwab statement shows $0.00 in the bottom line for everyone (middle class that is, the others will have long since converted their paper wealth into physical). Not a second before. That said we do wish them all the best. Those willing to watch this weekend's gathering of idealists can do so at the webcast (with commercial interruptions) below.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/watch-latest-attempt-occupy-wall-street-weekend-live

[Harmony Blue]

9. Let fools laugh

us mature adults will have to clean up this mess in the end.

[sabrina 1]

26. If only people didn't write blog posts without reading something

about what they are writing about. This is not a weekend protest. It is intended to last weeks or months. So, they will be there on Monday Morning when the Gamblers arrive at the Big Casino.

They started on the weekend so that they could organize and plan and set goals.

The organizers know that a one day protest does nothing.

If Tyler (how many bloggers named Tyler Durbin are there?) had taken to trouble to read the organizers' site, he would have known that it is not a weekend protest. But it probably made him feel good to make, what he thought, was the brilliant point that no one is home on the weekend on Wall St.:eyes:

[dkf]

45. I guess we will see how many will still be out there on Monday.

[monmouth]

47. My speculation is that the PTB on Wall Street have already called

Bloomberg from the Hamptons or wherever and stated "Make sure this sh*t is gone before I arrive at work in the morning." Just guessing but don't think I'm far off.

[sabrina 1]

48. I doubt there will be many, but they don't need a lot, they need enough

to disrupt the flow of business as usual. 100 or so would be sufficient.

If they can keep a presence there causing enough disruption for as long as possible, weekend numbers will probably grow.

They did great for a beginning considering how few people knew about it and the media is not going to help much.

[socialist_n_TN]

13. You have it backwards.........

It doesn't START in DC. It STARTS with the OWNERS of the politicians in DC. And they work on Wall Street.

Until people understand ONE basic truis, nothing substantial will change. Economics, politics, and power are all interrelated with the financial elites CONTROLLING ALL THREE. Economics controls politics which equals power.

[dixiegrrrrl]

33. Stiil, tho....one protest does not a movement make.

Until enough people refuse to do business with big banks...NO credit cards with them, NO accounts with them, NO mortgages with them...we are buying the bullets in the financial guns they shoot us with.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Thus global movements, and this is global

do not start big... they start with small steps...

So what have you done today about that no business with big banks?

[dixiegrrrrl]

44. "today"?????

Honey, we bank local, community bank, community bank credit card, and use cash locally.

Been doing that since 2005 when we closed the business accounts with Wells Fargo,
the personal accounts with WaMU,
the retirement accounts with big banks. Moved it ALL out, got out of debt.
We shop locally, whenever possible.
I have other threads up about boycotting Wal-greens which invaded our town last year.

How about you?

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Same here

but as I said this is a movement, and it is not very fast in the beginning.

Heck hubby needed a suit, we went to the LOCAL, been there forever, suit provider

[azul]

16. If this were a couple of hundred years ago, maybe even a hundred,

enraged Americans would be tar and feathering these crooks, and the law would be obliged to respect these justifiable activities. And bad laws would change.

We have become cowed by corporate profit and its police force. It's being drilled into aggrieved people that resistance is worse than futile, and that their government has been sold.

[RB TexLa]

18. It is funny. I mean have they stormed into the exchange and busted up the perrier bottles? Or

unplugged the refrigerators housing the caviar reserves?

I'm sure their chants all rhyme and they spent time on their signs. Some people will have to change their usual Sunday jogging route and maybe some people won't see Federal Hall on their trip to NYC like they had planned. But yes the "There is always something big evil all powerful group to blame for anything that happens to me," group deserves to be laughed at.

[blogslut]

19. So, those protesters should just stay home?

?

[Imajika]

22. What did they accomplish exactly?

Something like 1000 protesters show up with contingents from all manner of the same old protest groups that always go to these things, don't even come close to occupying Wall Street, hang out in Zuccotti Park and bang drums and wear costumes. What does this achieve? If there were media coverage what would people see? Well fed college kids equipped with all their capitalist luxuries out having a great time? Sorry, that's just not going to inspire too many people.

[blogslut]

28. So, tell me

What constitutes a "successful" protest? Should the participants be appropriately thin with ragged clothes? How many protesters must be in attendance in order for the event to pass muster?

I seem to recall that a few million people across the world protested Bush's war but he waged it anyway. Was that protest "successful"?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. + Brazillion

[socialist_n_TN]

43. These posts also tell us EXACTLY whose side

some of our DU posters are on.

Good post read.

[Safetykitten]

27. The loudest coming from a certain house in DC. A big one...house that is.

[annm4peace]

30. Ghandi said: First, they laugh at you.....

I'm encourage by these incredible people who are doing something.. they are taking action. It is is a joke of who many are there, then why is there so much police, and paddy wagons?
If it is such a joke, then why did the shut down the cell towers so people couldn't communicate with each other.

The powers that be are very frightened by the people rising up. That is why they have militarized their police forces.

Instead of laughing at them on DU maybe you could send the story to your local news stations and demand they give them the same coverage they give to any Tea Bag event.

The organization can also use some donations.

[suffragette]

38. + 1,000

[sudopod]

49. Cool story, bro.

[Fire Walk With Me]

51. It's true. And that's why we are beginning to kick it out.