Libyan Revolution Week 31 part 2

[joshcryer]

[joshcryer]

1. Libyan Revolution Day 213 updates below, current time in Libya, 4:27am Sunday, September 18

[al bupp]

6. Atta boy, Josh

You even beat PB39er to the punch this time. That's a nifty twist on the patriot smiley icon you got there, too.

[joshcryer]

2. Fresh fighting near Libyan town of Bani Walid

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/09/18/general-ml-libya_8686044.html">Fresh fighting near Libyan town of Bani Walid
BANI WALID, Libya -- Libyan revolutionary forces say they have fought their way back to the edge of a valley that stands between them and the loyalist stronghold of Bani Walid.

Fighters say they made the push without orders from commanders Sunday after Moammar Gadhafi's forces shelled revolutionary lines at the northern gate of the sprawling town.

Smoke rose on the horizon, and men returning from the area near the valley called Wadi Zeitoun say they are being barraged by rockets and mortars while they shoot back with anti-aircraft missiles and other weapons.

NATO aircraft circled the area, but former rebels say there's been no sign of airstrikes.

[joshcryer]

3. Exiled pilots return to Libya

http://news.sky.com/home/article/16072276">Exiled pilots return to Libya
2:38pm UK, Sunday September 18, 2011
Two Libyan fighter pilots who defected to Malta instead of bombing their own citizens have returned to Tripoli and a hero's welcome.

The two men have spent the last six months in exile in Malta after refusing to fire on protesters in Benghazi last February.

As they stepped off a small Maltese air force plane on to the tarmac in Tripoli, their priority was the families they left behind to face the wrath of the Gaddafi regime.

Their names were given as Abdullah al Salheen and Ali al Rabti.

[joshcryer]

4. Will it really be a spring for the Arabs?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/18/arab-spring-human-rights-iraq?intcmp=239">Will it really be a spring for the Arabs?
Colleagues and friends are rather surprised by my lack of enthusiasm for the Arab spring. They expect a human rights campaigner like me with almost 40 years of experience to be over the moon at the changes taking place throughout the Middle East. The problem is that however much I long for democratic change in the region, I cannot help but see the situation though the prism of my Iraqi experience, and on a personal level this leaves me pessimistic.

I was born in Mosul in the north of Iraq. My family lived in the old Christian quarter of the city and we played an active part in the Christian community until we moved to Baghdad when I was eight.

...

I am not a political scientist and can't make judgments and predictions about each of these states, but in Iraq the original joy at the overthrow of Saddam Hussein was gradually replaced by disbelief at the disintegration of the country. For five, six, seven years my family and friends still thought that their children would have a future there. I always assumed that I would one day be able to return to my homeland in safety and maybe spend a few months at a time in Mosul, the city of my birth. Now I have had to accept that this will never happen. "Do not go to Baghdad unless you have to" is the advice, and do not go to "Mosul at all because it is a lawless ruin".

I hope and pray that the people of Tunisia, Egypt and Libya will do far better than we did.

[joshcryer]

5. Fighting continues around Libya's Bani Walid

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/09/201191855814162883.html">Fighting continues around Libya's Bani Walid
Muammar Gaddafi's fighters in Bani Walid have launched artillery strikes and tried to ambush encroaching revolutionary forces at the northern gate of the loyalist stronghold.

Sunday's counter-attack came after the two sides clashed through the night inside the town as Libya's new rulers faced fierce resistance to their efforts to crush the dug-in fighters loyal to the fugitive Gaddafi.

Mortar fire targeted a building where forces aligned with the National Transitional Council (NTC) were taking cover as well as the town's north entrance, kicking up sand and filling the sky with black smoke.

Anti-Gaddafi fighters returned fire with machine guns and rockets.

Video at the link.

[pinboy3niner]

7. Yemeni forces open fire on protesters, 16 killed

By AHMED AL-HAJ - Associated Press | AP – 1 hr 26 mins ago


SANAA, Yemen (AP) — Yemeni government forces opened fire with anti-aircraft guns and automatic weapons on tens of thousands of anti-government protesters in the capital demanding ouster of their longtime ruler, killing at least 16 and wounding dozens, medical officials and witnesses said.

After nightfall, Sanaa sank into complete darkness after a sudden power outage.

The attack was the deadliest in months against protesters and comes as tensions have been escalating in the long, drawn-out stalemate between the regime and the opposition. The president, Ali Abdullah Saleh, left for Saudi Arabia for treatment after being severely wounded in a June 3 attack on his palace, raising hopes for his swift removal — but instead, he has dug in, refusing to step down.

The protest movement has stepped up demonstrations the past week, angered after Saleh deputized his vice president to negotiate a power-transfer deal. Many believe the move is just the latest of many delaying tactics.

At the same time, greater numbers of security forces and armed regime supporters have also been turning out in the streets in recent days, raising fears of a new bloody confrontation.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/yemeni-forces-open-fire-protesters-16-killed-174631358.html

[pinboy3niner]

8. New Fighting in Libya, NTC Government Delayed

Source: Voice of America

Posted Sunday, September 18th, 2011 at 1:50 pm


Libya's National Transition Council fighters met strong resistance Sunday in two of Moammar Gadhafi's remaining strongholds, as NTC leaders delayed announcing a new government.

The NTC had planned to announce Cabinet positions at a news conference, but NTC representative Mahmoud Jibril told reporters last-minute negotiations have delayed the announcement “indefinitely.”

Pro-Gadhafi forces in the desert town of Bani Walid fought NTC fighters with heavy mortar and sniper fire. NTC fighters entering the town from the north answered back with machine gun fire.

Rockets also flew over NTC fighters advancing on Gadhafi loyalists in the former leader's hometown, Sirte. Officials say recent fighting there has killed at least 10 and wounded at least 40 others.

...


http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2011/09/18/new-fighting-in-libya-ntc-government-delayed/

[inna]

9. unrec in complete disgust and strong protest

[mark7sys]

31. Hi, inna: did you have any reply to my earlier questions?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1923083&mesg_id=1931175

I'd also like to add this one:

Do you consider France's intervention in the revolution in America to be inappropriate and officious? If so, why?

“... strong protest” ?

Sadly, I am late on the scene and so I am unfamiliar with the nature of your protest. I am eager to read anything you have written regarding what you (I gather) would consider to be the nefarious nature of the intentions of NATO countries with respect to Libya. Would you be so kind as to provide links to your previously posted thoughts here? Thanks.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1954856&mesg_id=1957117

[pinboy3niner]

10. Malta consolidates ties with new Libya as Gonzi hosts Jalil and Jibril at Castille

Source: Malta Today

Sunday, September 18, 2011

By Karl Stagno-Navarra



UPDATE 2 | Libya’s National Transitional Council (NTC) has assured Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi that Malta will have a distinguished role in the rebuilding of a new Libya.


During an unexpected visit to Malta this evening and a meeting at Castille, NTC Chairman Moustafa Jalil and Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril met with Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi, just hours after he had bid farewell to two Libyan air force pilots who had been granted asylum in Malta after defecting with their Mirage jets last February.

...


"You have courageously served as a life-line to the people of Libya during their most difficult hour, you supplied them with humanitarian aid, you assisted our brave pilots who defected to Malta and are also treating injured civilians in your hospitals," (Jalil) said.


While the Maltese embassy in Tripoli has reopened this week and has started processing visas for Libyans to travel into Europe, a business delegation led by finance minister Tonio Fenech is expected to travel to Benghazi in the coming days.


http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/malta-consolidates-ties-with-new-libya-as-gonzi-hosts-jalil-and-jibril-at-castille

[pinboy3niner]

11. NATO airstrikes conducted Saturday, September 17

Key Hits 17 SEPTEMBER:


In the vicinity of Sirte: 2 Command and Control Nodes, 4 Multiple Rocket Launchers, 1 Armed Vehicle, 4 Surface to Air Missile Systems.


In the vicinity of Hun: 9 Anti Aircraft Guns.


In the vicinity of Al Jufra: 1 Command and Control Node, 1 Vehicle Storage Facility.


In the vicinity of Sheba: 1 Armed Vehicle, 1 Armoured Vehicle, 1 Multiple Rocket Launcher.


...


International Humanitarian Assistance Movements as recorded by NATO


Total of Humanitarian Movements**: 1280 (air, ground, maritime)


Ships delivering Humanitarian Assistance 17 SEPTEMBER: 2


Aircrafts delivering Humanitarian Assistance 17 SEPTEMBER: 31


**Some humanitarian movements cover several days.


http://www.nato.int/nato_static/assets/pdf/pdf_2011_09/20110918_110918-oup-update.pdf

[tabatha]

12. The Democratic Party Libya - Wonderful!

Manifesto

The Democratic Party upholds the principles of liberty, tolerance, individual rights, constitutional democracy, the rule of law and economic freedom. It endeavours to make the following rights of the citizen a reality of political life in Libya.
 
1. People are created and remain free and equal in rights. Social distinctions may be founded only upon the general good.
 
2. The aim of all political association is the preservation of the natural rights of man. These rights are liberty, property, security, and resistance to oppression.
 
3. The principle of all sovereignty resides essentially in the nation. Nobody nor individual may exercise any authority which does not proceed directly from the nation.
 
4. Liberty consists in the freedom to do everything which injures no one else; hence the exercise of the natural rights of each man has no limits except those which assure to the other members of the society the enjoyment of the same rights. These limits can only be determined by law.
 
5. Law can only prohibit such actions as are hurtful to society. Nothing may be prevented which is not forbidden by law, and no one may be forced to do anything not provided for by law.

http://thedemocraticpartylibya.org/

[Amonester]

52. Very good news!

I hope the Democratic Party Libya is welcome here, on Democratic Underground... :)

Great contact link, thanks! :thumbsup:

K & R

[tabatha]

13. Libyan Socialist Movement - Wonderful!

Coming soon.

http://www.greenlibya.org/

[pinboy3niner]

14. Libya: (Uganda President) Museveni Explains Stand On Libya, Economy

Source: New Vision Online

Saturday, 17th September, 2011


ON Friday, President Yoweri Museveni met the New Vision and Monitor media managers at State House Nakasero and explained a number of issues relating to the African Union stand on Libya, Uganda’s economy, Makerere University and the large cost of running government, writes Barbara Kaija.


The Libyan National Transitional Council will not be recognised by the African Union (AU) if they do not form an inclusive government, President Yoweri Museveni has said.


Museveni clarified that the AU did not make a U-turn on Libya as reported in some sections of the media.

...


He dismissed press reports that the AU had dumped ousted Libyan Leader Mummar Gadaffi.


Museveni said the AU had maintained its stand and indeed the South African newspapers had reported that accurately.


“Where is the U-turn? Why do you manipulate the public with misleading headlines? Why don’t you report the facts?” he asked.

...


http://www.newvision.co.ug/D/120/123/765335

[pinboy3niner]

15. Revolutionary fighters now in control of Zela, near Gaddafi southern stronghold of Al-Kafra

Anti-Gaddafi fighters are reportedly in control now of the town of Zela, near Al-Kafra, a Gaddafi stronghold in the south of Libya.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-18-2011-1709

[pinboy3niner]

16. Post-war Tripoli port back in business, airport ready

Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:16pm GMT

By Mohammed al-Ramahi


TRIPOLI, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Tripoli's port is back to near-normal business less than a month after the ousting of Muammar Gaddafi, authorities said on Sunday, with the Libyan capital's international airport also ready to operate flights.

As cranes lifted containers and sacks of goods onto the docks, and trucks manoeuvred into position to be loaded, port interim manager Abddel Hakim al-Ghazawi told Reuters the installation was safe and called on insurance companies to reduce fees related to use of the facility.

"Tripoli's sea port is totally secure. There is nothing that can be an obstacle for the arrival of goods and ships," he said.

"Already some companies have started to send ships," he said, adding goods were being unloaded efficiently and 85-90 percent of the port was functioning.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KI0LP20110918

[pinboy3niner]

17. Confusion hampering charge on Gaddafi desert bastion

Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:33pm GMT

By Maria Golovnina


BANI WALID, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Confused orders, no central command and dissent in the ranks are holding up efforts by Libya's provisional government to take the Muammar Gaddafi bastion of Bani Walid, fighters said.

On Sunday, ruling National Transitional Council (NTC) forces fled in a chaotic retreat from the town, after failing in another attempt to storm the desert stronghold.

...


The Bani Walid front was reinforced with 1,000 fighters over the last few days, many of them in uniform and identifying themselves as from Libya's "national army".

At Sirte, more than 900 vehicles are involved in the fight on one front and 400 are trying to approach from another.

Yet, still, no victory.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KI0T120110918?sp=true

[polly7]

18. NATO air strikes kill 354 in Sirte: Moussa Ibrahim

http://globalciviliansforpeace.com/2011/09/18/nato-air-strikes-kill-354-in-sirte-moussa-ibrahim/

By Alexander Dziadosz

SIRTE, Libya | Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:40am EDT

Global Civilians For Peace In Libya

The aim of Global Civilians for Peace (fomerly known as British Civilians For Peace In Libya) is to advocate peace through civil means by Libyan, AU and UN initiatives in Libya

Global Civilians is a non-governmental organisation made up of ordinary civilians campaigning for peace and reconciliation in Libya and end to the NATO bombings.

We have conducted three fact finding delegations to Libya during the months of April, May and June and still have delegates in Libya. Global Civilians for Peace have been granted unique access to ordinary Libyans and documented and received testimonies of the causes and the impact the current crisis is having on the lives of the Libyan people.....


Delegations have included doctors .journalists, documentary film makers, teachers, community workers, health workers, humanitarian aid campaigners and business people. Some are Christian, some Muslim and some are of no religion. Some are leftwing, some are rightwing, some are centre, some are rich some are poor. They have included British, French, Italian, German, American, African and Palestinian citizens. Together they are a cross section of ordinary civilians.

[tabatha]

20. All the claims by Moussa Ibrahim about NATO have been lies.

[polly7]

23. So you say. I haven't seen you prove it. nt.

[tabatha]

24. Every time Moussa Ibrahim took reporters

to a site where civilians were supposed to be killed by NATO, it turned out bogus.

There are recordings of about 2000 conversations of regime officials, and in one they talk about moving bodies from a hospital to a site that was bombed by NATO to fake civilian deaths.

If they had provided video or photos by a journalist, then that is a different story. But they never have.

EDIT:

NATO said on Saturday it would assess allegations that its airstrikes had killed hundreds of civilians in the under-siege Libyan city of Sirte, but noted that similar accusations in the past have rarely proven to be true, DPA reported.

"Most often, they are revealed to be unfounded or inconclusive," spokesman Roland Lavoie said. "As is the case with all NATO strikes, a thorough damage assessment is conducted afterwards; this will allow us to ascertain whether these allegations are founded or not."

Gaddafi spokesman Moussa Ibrahim told the Syria-based Al-Rai television that around 354 civilians were killed in NATO strikes over Sirte on Friday.

Lavoie confirmed that several military targets - five command and control facilities, three radar systems, four armed vehicles and eight air missile systems - had been struck following "strong evidence ... that the population of Sirte was being threatened.

http://en.trend.az/news/nato/1933228.html

[polly7]

26. So what are you saying, bombs dropped from above on sites where

there were known to be civilians, killed no civilians? Really??? Sorry, I don't believe that bull for a second.

[tabatha]

30. Nope. Mis-comprehension.

NATO NEVER drops bombs where civilians are known to be. Never, ever.

They ONLY target military equipment.

If there is any question about if civilians could be in the area, they DO NOT drop bombs.

[polly7]

33. What?? A simple google brought this up in half a second.

Alliance now investigating incident after journalists visit target
Nato admits to destroying house in Tripoli after 'weapons system failure'
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
Last updated at 10:53 AM on 20th June 2011

A Nato air strike hit a civilian house in Tripoli and killed nine residents, the Libyan regime said yesterday.

Nato admitted on Sunday that its weapons destroyed a house in Tripoli in an incident likely to sow new doubts inside the alliance about its mission in Libya.

The strike on the house was the clearest case yet of a bombing causing multiple civilian casualties, and comes at a time when the alliance is already under strain from a campaign that is taking more time and resources than its backers had expected.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2005472/Libya-War-Nato-bomb-kills-9-civilians-Tripoli-stray-air-strike-blamed-failure.html#ixzz1YLUznUxt


‘Humanitarian’ Nato bombs kill civilians and rebels

by Judith Orr

Bombing civilians in the name of saving civilians—that is the reality of Western intervention in Libya.

Nato was forced to apologise after an air attack on the capital, Tripoli, last weekend killed nine civilians—two of them babies.

The bomb fell in the middle of Souk al-Gomaa—a working class residential district known for its opposition to Colonel Gaddafi’s regime in the early days of the uprising this year.

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=25207


Libyan living in Scotland claims family were killed in Nato airstrike meant for Gaddafi
Mohi Alghazali said his relatives died in the bombing on the Libyan city of Bani Walid on Wednesday.

02 September 2011 15:06 GMT

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/north/268704-family-of-libyan-living-in-scotland-killed-in-nato-airstrike-meant-for-gaddafi/


Collateral damage ....... of course they didn't set out to kill civilians, but not to expect it, is ridiculous.

[tabatha]

38. NATO never bombs civilians intentionally.

There has been some collateral damage - but it is tiny in comparison to the carnage by Gaddafi, where all of the bombing was intentional.

My point was that they deliberately avoid killing civilians.

And I will say it again - they AVOID civilians as the number one priority.

The Gaddafi regime has made many false claims of NATO casualties.

Meanwhile the Gaddafi regime has killed thousands of innocent civilians in their homes. INTENTIONALLY.

And I will repeat my previous post

NATO NEVER drops bombs where civilians are known to be. Never, ever.

They ONLY target military equipment.

If there is any question about if civilians could be in the area, they DO NOT drop bombs.

[Distant Observer]

43. So all knowing! This is the typical imperialist line for every invasion of other country.

Only admit you are killing people when there is overwhelming evidence.

That is now the MO. They could not change it if they wanted to.

[tabatha]

46. The Red Cross, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch

are all on the ground in Libya (besides others).

They pull no punches. If anyone does anything wrong, it is reported.

[tabatha]

32. Lt. Gen. Charles Bouchard

SIEGEL: Compared to the NATO operation in Kosovo back in the 1990s, it seems that there have been rather fewer civilian casualties inflicted by NATO, very little of what military people call collateral damage or, for that matter, very few friendly fire incidents. Why is that?

BOUCHARD: Well, I think it's the restraint by the military leadership that the equipment that is being used is much more precise with much smaller yield weapons. We have been very rigorous in our selection of targets to ensure that we knew what was there. We've done several assessments into patterns of life. So we...

SIEGEL: By patterns of life, you mean what civilians do and where they would be in a given place at a given time?

BOUCHARD: Let me give you an example, if I may. Not far from (unintelligible) Zawiyah, which we saw fall about a week and a half ago now, there was a soccer game taking place and there were two SA-8 missile systems right beside them. We waited for two hours. Then once the soccer game finished and the people left the area, and we confirm that only the military equipment was left, we struck.

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/05/140198407/assessing-natos-mission-in-libya

[joshcryer]

83. Heh, I'll never forget Gaddafi's "human shields" cell phones going off and they started quietly...

...http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/20/world/la-fg-libya-kadafi-20110320">leaving his compound. :rofl:

"So what if they bomb?" he said. "We never get scared. If there was any fear, these people would never come here."

"We are here," said medical student Salah Mohammad, 24, "to be with the leader of our revolution, even if we die."

Cellphones began to ring. A hush fell over the crowd. People began to whisper to one another: Cruise missiles were being fired at Tripoli. Those sitting in a grassy area quickly got up and began heading for the exit.

There are only two cases of NATO hits on non-combatants. One of which was not NATOs fault (they hit an arm depo and one of the stored missiles flew a half mile and hit a house).

And then there's http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-africa-14611043">this report, "On Sunday afternoon Moussa Ibrahim told me 65,000 professional and trained soldiers loyal to Col Gaddafi were inside the capital ready to rise up and defend Tripoli." Tripoli was taken by http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7853C520110906?irpc=932(6">2000 combatants. A city of two million taken by 2000 combatants. Incredible.

[mark7sys]

39. Let's examine a representative Ibrahim claim …

... and see what is confirmed in the end.

On 23 August, Moussa Ibrahim claims 75-80% of Tripoli is “under our full control”:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14629574

Meanwhile, NBC's Richard Engel is reporting from inside Gadhafi's military base / compound (where citizen bystanders off the street are busy admiring Condoleezza Rice photo album):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnX82f_DrFc

… and there are celebrations in Green Square:
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7JM28Z20110823

Moreover, at the same time, journalists were trapped with little food or water at the Rixos Hotel, the place from which – if Tripoli were genuinely under regime control – Ibrahim should have been giving his press conferences from.
http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/08/23/7452438-journalists-in-tripoli-held-in-rixos-hotel

The families of government officials at the Rixos were already fleeing by 21 August:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14611043

So on the day that Ibrahim insists that the regime fully controls 75 to 80% of Tripoli, Bab al-Aziziya / Splendid Gate is occupied, Green Square celebrates and Ibrahim himself does not dare make an appearance at this own command post. (If, indeed, they controlled 75 to 80% of Tripoli, it sure wasn't the right 75 to 80% of Tripoli. Were they really as inept as all that? They would have been vastly more secure had they controlled the other 20% instead!)


OK: so was Moussa Ibrahim's claim on the 23rd true, or was it not? How do YOU judge, Polly?

[joshcryer]

51. Don't forget his claims of 60 thousand fighters to defend Tripoli around August 18-19.

[Distant Observer]

44. THEY ALLWAYS LIE, WE ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH. Wow! Kindergarten!

[tabatha]

47. Possibly to your puerile mind.

But the truth is factual. Facts are what are required to determine the validity of a claim.

There is hard solid evidence, that the Gaddafi regime has lied multiple times.

In multiple documents. By multiple witnesses. In multiple recordings of phone conversations.

[joshcryer]

80. Tripoli Tom is a known liar, he is not credible, but yet I *still* posted his lies in the OP.

Because this is an information thread and possibly the most credible coverage of the Revolution you'll find anywhere.

Tripoli Tom's lies should always come with "allege" or "allegedly." He has very very rarely been truthful. The only bigger liar in this whole affair might be Nazemroaya and his gang.

[pinboy3niner]

19. Morocco's democracy protests restart after hiatus

By PAUL SCHEMM - Associated Press | AP – 36 mins ago


CASABLANCA, Morocco (AP) — Thousands of Moroccans demonstrated on Sunday calling for greater political freedoms, as the country's pro-democracy movement attempted to regain momentum lost over the summer.

At least 3,000 people marched through the streets of Casablanca, Morocco's largest city, chanting slogans against government corruption in a demonstration organized by the pro-democracy February 20 movement.

Like the rest of the Arab world, this North African kingdom was swept by pro-democracy protests featuring tens of thousands starting in February, but in recent months the protests have petered out and at one point stopped altogether.

King Mohammed VI, who remains popular with much of the country, appears to have co-opted much of the dissatisfaction by promising reforms and amending the constitution, which now gives more powers to the prime minister. But activists say it changes little and final authority still rests with the king and his court.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/moroccos-democracy-protests-restart-hiatus-191823209.html

:)

[pinboy3niner]

21. Rebels zero in on Gaddafi's son

From: AFP
September 19, 20113:53AM


LIBYA'S new regime is zoning in on one of Muammar Gaddafi's sons as civilians are urged to flee Gaddafi's hometown.


"The first problem is that there are children and civilians inside and we don't want to use Grad rockets or heavy artillery," Walid al-Feturi, commander of Al-Qabha brigade told AFP.

...


"We are trying to get out family and children step by step," Mr Feturi said, adding that rebels had cleared key roads leading out of the city to allow families to leave.

...


Front line fighters in Sirte are convinced that Mutassim Gaddafi, a career soldier and former national security advisor to his father, is hiding in the southern outskirts of the strongman's hometown.


Radio chatter intercepted by former rebels showed a lieutenant issuing orders to Gaddafi loyalists to shoot heavy artillery despite counter-appeals to protect civilian life, an AFP journalist said.

...


NTC fighters said that the same pro-Gaddafi commander promised to come to Mutassim's rescue saying: "Master, master... we will protect you as ordered by your father."

...


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/world/rebels-surround-gaddafis-hometown/story-e6frea8l-1226140445033?from=public_rss

[tabatha]

22. Syria, Bahrein, Yemen

RRowley is posting about these:

SYRIA

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
Video: #Homs chanting "the people want international protection" 9-18 youtube.com/watch?v=QOYZ4e… #Syria
1 hour ago

Who is going to give it to them? NATO wants no more. Arabs,AU?

BAHREIN

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
INCREDIBLE VIDEO: PLEASE RT: Rioters attacking police in #Damistan #Bahrain s1280.vuclip.com/2d/db/2ddb9dc4…
1 hour ago

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
#alKhalifa criminals have started using chemical weapons against civilians in #Sitra #Bahrain NOW.
1 hour ago

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
MUST SEE VIDEO: PLEASE RT: Rioters attacking police in #Damistan #Bahrain s1280.vuclip.com/2d/db/2ddb9dc4…
1 hour ago

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
I urge ALL in #US, Monday call your Senator & US Rep, ask them, & if they support further support of #Bahrain or #Yemen VOTE THE BASTARD OUT
5 hours ago

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
ANY #US Senator or politician who supports or works w/ #Bahrain or #Yemen needs to be removed from office FOREVER as they support MURDER.
5 hours ago

YEMEN

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
Graphic Video: Some of the wounded & murdered in #Yemen today youtu.be/_mErbkOHqRg #yf
5 hours ago

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
#Sanaa NOW: All youth at Sanaa Change Square are moving to Kentachi intersection where the massacre is taking place. #Yemen #yf
5 hours ago

tobyornot_ toby
by RRowleyTucson
Feel for the brave pro-democracy protesters of #Yemen in a jaded world "@tomfinn2: Words fail me. The dead are still being brought in."

nolesfan2011 S K
by RRowleyTucson
innocent people are literally having their HEADS BLOWN OFF by AA guns from #Saleh guards! #yemen #yf @barackobama @williamjhague @pmharper
5 hours ago

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
Republican Guards are using anti-craft machineguns against protesters. #Yemen #yf
6 hours ago

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
Dozens of peaceful protesters have been suffocated by chemical and tear gas in #Sanaa. #Yemen #yf
6 hours ago

RRowleyTucson Robert Rowley
#Sanaa: Reports #Saleh's filth firing on ambulances, kidnapping injured from hospitals. #Gaddafi playbook being used in #Yemen. #yf
6 hours ago

http://twitter.com/#!/RRowleyTucson




Hey, Inna, Yo, Are you going to help these people being massacred ???

[pinboy3niner]

25. Libya Islamist takes inclusive stance

Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:28pm GMT


• Islamist wants Libya to be a democratic "civil state"

• Tripoli fighters will be integrated with police

• Belhajd reiterates UK apology for help with rendition


By William Maclean


TRIPOLI, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Tripoli's military commander, an Islamist whose rise to prominence is being watched closely by the West, said on Sunday he wanted to build a democratic "civil state" in Libya in remarks that laid out an inclusive political vision after 42 years of despotism under Muammar Gaddafi.

In a Reuters interview, Abdel Hakim Belhadj added that he expected Gaddafi's complete defeat very soon, and that Tripoli was stabilising gradually in a process that would lead eventually to the return to the streets of a police service open to revolutionary fighters who sought to participate in it.

Dressed in military fatigues and seated on a sofa in a reception room at an upscale Tripoli hotel, the soft-spoken Belhadj, in his late 40s, reiterated that he wanted an apology from Britain for what he said was its role in transferring him to Libya under Gaddafi, a move he said violated his human rights.

Asked if there was room for all political shades of opinion in a future Libya, he replied: "Libya will be built by all Libyans."

"They have a big challenge, which is building a democratic and modern, civil state with rules, governed with justice and equality."

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KI0TM20110918?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

27. LIBYAN REVOLUTION DAY 214: CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:01 AM MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 19

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, UTC +1 hour, GMT +2 hours










Inside one of Gaddafi's torture cells
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2030931/Libya-Inside-Gaddafis-torture-chamber-The-bloodstained-cells-inside-primary-school-used-brutalise-enemies.html

[pinboy3niner]

28. Tony Blair 'visited Libya to lobby for JP Morgan'

Richard Spencer, 22:40, Sunday 18 September 2011

Tony Blair used visits to Libya after he left office to lobby for business for the American investment bank JP Morgan, The Daily Telegraph has been told.

A senior executive with the Libyan Investment Authority, the $70 billion fund used to invest the country's oil money abroad, said Mr Blair was one of three prominent western businessmen who regularly dealt with Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, son of the former leader.

Saif al-Islam and his close aides oversaw the activities of the fund, and often directed its officials on where they should make its investments, he said.

The executive, speaking on condition of anonymity, said officials were told the "ideas" they were ordered to pursue came from Mr Blair as well as one other British businessman and a former American diplomat.

...


http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Tony-Blair-visited-Libya-tele-1331676648.html?x=0

[pinboy3niner]

29. NATO airstrikes also hit a building in #Sirte used as a sniping position by #Gaddafi loyalists

From latestbreakingnews.com:

@feb17voices

LPC #Misrata: NATO airstrikes also hit a building in #Sirte used as a sniping position by #Gaddafi loyalists. #Libya

9:54PM GMT Sep 18, 2011

[pinboy3niner]

34. Libyans fail to agree on new government

Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:52pm GMT

• Proposal submitted for new transitional govt

• Includes plans to expand number of ministries

• Future role of prime minister Jibril in doubt


By Emma Farge


BENGHAZI, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Libya's interim leaders failed to agree a new cabinet on Sunday in the latest setback to attempts to normalise the running of a government still bogged down by battles with pro-Muammar Gaddafi forces.

...


"We had an advisory meeting with the NTC in order to form a new cabinet. We have agreed on a number of portfolios. We still have more portfolios to be discussed," Jibril told reporters through a translator on at a news conference on Sunday.

...


"The meeting was to form a transitional government. (The NTC) reduced the number of portfolios from 36 in the original proposal to around 24 but no names are confirmed," NTC spokesman, Jalal el-Gallal, told Reuters.


A list of the approved ministries was not available, though sources familiar with the negotiations said that the position of Jibril himself was a sticking point during the talks.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KI0V120110918?sp=true

[pinboy3niner]

35. Held hostage in 120 tweets: Journalist's chilling real-time account of being imprisoned...

...by Gaddafi's gunmen


Source: Daily Mail (UK)

Escape: CNN correspondent Matthew Chance (right) and his producer Jomana Karadsheh
leave the Rixos hotel in Tripoli in the back of a Red Cross van after being taken
hostage by Gaddafi's men


By Liz Hazelton

Last updated at 11:05 PM on 18th September 2011


For six months it had hosted the world's media, a five-star oasis in the middle of a war zone.

...


Then the illusion was shattered. Over five extraordinary days, the crumbling remnants of Gaddafi's regime turned the Rixos into a prison.

...


During this terrifying stalemate, Matthew Chance, a journalist for CNN, found an unexpected way to communicate with the outside world.


He deluged Twitter with information, detailing every stage of a siege which many feared would end in disaster.


The world outside was watching. At the start of the crisis, Chance had 700 followers. By the end this had swelled to 22,000.

...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038947/Libya-CNN-Matthew-Chance-hostage-Rixos.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[pinboy3niner]

36. Gaddafi spokesman - 17, including French and British, captured

Reuters – 6 minutes ago


CAIRO (Reuters) - A spokesman for Muammar Gaddafi said on Sunday that 17 "mercenaries," including what he called French and British "technical experts" have been captured in the Gaddafi bastion of Bani Walid in Libya.

"A group was captured in Bani Walid consisting of 17 mercenaries. They are technical experts and they include consultative officers," Moussa Ibrahim told the Syrian-based Arrai TV.

"Most of them are French, one of them is from an Asian country that has not been identified, two English people and one Qatari," he added.

...


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/gaddafi-spokesman-17-including-french-british-captured-223804475.html

[pinboy3niner]

37. Gaddafi forces claim wins

From: AFP | September 19, 20118:32AM



MUAMMAR Gaddafi's spokesman says their troops have won several battles in the past few days against Libya's new authorities.

"We have won several battles against the NATO collaborators and managed to push them out of Bani Walid and Sirte", two remaining Gaddafi strongholds, Mussa Ibrahim told Syria-based Arrai television channel by telephone.

"In spite of deadly NATO strikes our forces resist and our fighters pursue their fight because we are involved in a battle for dignity and against the forces of evil," he added.

Ibrahim said he was confident that the capital Tripoli would be "reconquered".

"We will be back in all towns and cities that have been occupied by the NATO mercenaries. We promise you that we will bury the colonialist project targeting the Arab people."

...


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/gaddafi-forces-claim-wins/story-e6frg6so-1226140522737

[tabatha]

40. Why is Chris Hedges calling for "boots on the ground" in Libya

The vendettas in Libya have already begun. Government buildings in Tripoli have been looted, although not on the scale seen in Baghdad.

And we might add to that, not even on the scale recently seen in London. As @libya20 tweeted on August 26, "Looting in #Tripoli was much less than that in #London despite there is no police in Tripoli and a lot of them in London" While Qaddafi's luxury villa may have been ransacked and looted and the western media has been throwing up a scare about suspected looting of arms depots, there has been almost no looting of the type that is common in western cities as soon as law and order breaks down. Did Hedges call for a UN "peacekeeping" force to be dispatched to London?

Poor black sub-Saharan African immigrant workers have been beaten and killed.

Although there have been exaggerations in the pro-Qaddafi press, this has been a real problem which the NTC is starting to deal with but as I noted in Racism in Libya, it's not exactly a problem that is new in Libya. Did Hedges call for a UN "peacekeeping" force when 150 black Africans were slaughtered in Tripoli in 2001 and hundreds of thousands were interned in Qaddafi's desert detention camps?

Suspected Gadhafi loyalists or spies have been tortured and assassinated. These eye-for-an-eye killings will, I fear, get worse.

While excesses and atrocities can be found on every side in every war, there is no widespread evidence of "torture and assassination" among those captured by the revolutionary forces.

Al Jazeera reported on the same day Hedges published his piece:
In recent days, fighters said they had conducted sweeps through the capital and acted on informants' tips to carry out the targeted arrests of ex-regime members.

The arrests of confirmed Gaddafi loyalists, however, have been limited. Some former high-ranking officials claimed they turned themselves in, including Abdelati Obeidi, former foreign minister, and Jibril Kadiki, former deputy commander of Gaddafi's air defence forces.

Imagine that! Qaddafi loyalists turning themselves in to be "tortured and assassinated." Too bad they didn't check with Truthdig before they made that fatal error. I'm surprised Obeidi is still among the living.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/18/1017873/-Why-is-Chris-Hedges-calling-for-boots-on-the-ground-in-Libya

[tabatha]

41. Espresso machine at the front lines #Libya #FF #Feb17

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1194373&l=0dd1e04689&id=201112813234111

[pinboy3niner]

45. LOL! Must be Libya's new 'Modern Voluntee Army' program

In the U.S., it was 'beer in the barracks.'

Also, I just happened to stumble upon this little known fact about the gladiators in ancient Rome: What they really said was, "We who are about to die salute you--but first we're going to have a little espresso." :)

[tabatha]

48. I think shoe designers have a very small market in Libya.

[pinboy3niner]

49. Oh, I don't know...

:rofl:

From a post by Josh in the Day 47 thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=812269&mesg_id=812372

[pinboy3niner]

42. Obama heads to UN touting Libya, backing Israel

By Tangi Quemener | AFP – 1 hr 57 mins ago


US President Barack Obama embarks on a diplomatic marathon this week at the United Nations, touting his approach to Libya, but hoping to contain Palestinian ambitions for statehood.

...


But observers say Obama will arrive at the UN headquarters being able to tout a largely successful effort to bring down Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi, after lobbying forcefully for the resolution that kicked off the NATO campaign backing the rebel opposition.

On Tuesday, Obama is due to meet with Mustafa Abdel Jalil, chairman of Libya's National Transitional Council, recognized by Washington as the legitimate government there.

Obama, said Rhodes, "will "be able to express US support for a post-Kadhafi transition in Libya, and to discuss the TNC's plans for a post-Kadhafi transition."

He will also huddle with his main western counterparts backing his Libya strategy: French President Nicolas Sarkozy and British Prime Minister David Cameron.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/obama-heads-un-touting-libya-backing-israel-214604061.html

[pinboy3niner]

50. Libya conflict: Anti-Gaddafi troops move towards Sirte

Source: BBC

18 September 2011 Last updated at 16:45 ET

...


The BBC's Alastair Leithead in nearby Harawa, whose recent capture the forces are celebrating, says large field guns were towed past the town mosque on the way to the front line.

There were reports of heavy fighting around the eastern gate of Sirte, with pro-Gaddafi fighters using snipers and rocket fire.

Our correspondent reports seeing five injured with gunshot and shrapnel wounds and one dead.

It seems they were lured into an ambush but the pro-Gaddafi snipers left behind as bait had been caught, he says.

...


Nato has also been involved in the fighting, with British patrols destroying an armoured personnel carrier and two pick-up trucks, according to the UK Ministry of Defence.

...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14963973

[pinboy3niner]

53. French firm sold Muammar Gaddafi stealth 4X4: Report

Source: AFP

Published on Sep 19, 2011


PARIS (AFP) - A French company provided Libya in 2008 with a specialised 4X4 designed to protect Muammar Gaddafi while he travelled, and the French presidency signed off on the deal, Mediapart reported online on Sunday.

The vehicle, capable of neutralising any electric field within a 100m radius, was made by Amesys, a subsidiary of the French technology firm Bull, which earlier this month acknowledged it had dealings with Gaddafi's regime.

...


http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_714432.html

A $6.8 million BrotherLeaderMobile? KingofAllAficaMobile?

[tabatha]

54. Finally

http://yfrog.com/z/g0tlzqj

[pinboy3niner]

55. Rebel Women Seek New Rights After Qaddafi Overthrow

Source: Bloomberg

By Caroline Alexander and Flavia Krause-Jackson - Sep 18, 2011 6:22 PM PT


When fighting erupted in Misrata, Libya, its women stepped up to nurse wounded rebel soldiers, cook meals for the front-line brigades, raise money for weapons and care for orphans.

Medical student Hannin Mohammed got a rare opportunity for a young woman in Libya: to work in a hospital beside men during the six-month siege.

“When we were students, we were not allowed even on the wards for three years, unlike the boys,” said Mohammed, 21. “Now, I know so much.”

With Muammar Qaddafi driven out, she and other Libyan women are anticipating more freedom and greater opportunity. Yet, looking to the new government, there is only one woman on the 43-member National Transitional Council: head of legal affairs and women’s representative Salwa Fawzi El-Deghali. In May, with the war at its height, the NTC had two women members.


That doesn’t bode well for the likelihood women will emerge with more rights after four decades underQaddafi, whose attitude toward them was full of contradictions. His Green Book, setting out his governing philosophy, condemns gender discrimination. It also states that men and women can never be equal due to biological differences.

...


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-18/libya-s-rebel-women-seek-new-rights-after-qaddafi-overthrow.html

[tabatha]

56. Counting the first elections sine the 60s in Benghazi, Libya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghJS9t8GqF0

They voted for a TNC rep.

[pinboy3niner]

57. Still time to rec before the window closes Monday morning :)

Line forms at the left. :rofl:

[Cerridwen]

58. I was the once visible #3. If I do nothing else on DU for the day, I come

over here and rec this thread.

Awake. Boot computer. Start coffee. Check email. Check DU. Rec these threads. Rest of day continues as needed.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Is that an addiction you think? :)

[pinboy3niner]

62. Obviously, you're a very sick person

But don't worry--I hear there's an app for that. :)

One less well-known feature of DU is the Top Ten stats. If you go to the Greatest page, the links are there. The "On the Fence" stats link is at top right. Currently showing:

On The Fence
General Discussion

Libyan Revolution Week 31 part 2

52% recs / 48% unrecs : 58 replies : By joshcryer

Thanks to Mineral Man for bringing this to my attention. :patriot:

[Cerridwen]

64. I go there every so often. Thank you for the reminder.

I'm a tinkerer type.

I've put myself on ignore (I think; maybe I tested on a friendly, fellow poster(?)), hidden my own threads to see what shows up in 'My DU', alerted on myself (it didn't get deleted), and tested a few things with friendly, fellow posters; just to see what would happen. I actually prefer to try things in 'real-time' with a backup in place if possible. The only thing I haven't tried on myself...I've never been a mod so I've never actually banned myself.

Attention mods: that was not an invitation. Thank you.

Some years back, I purposely infected my PC with a virus; in over 25 years in IT, I'd never seen one as it occurred. It was anti-climactic. *sigh*

Which is the long way of saying, I'm even sicker than you thought.

:D

[pinboy3niner]

65. LOL!

You are one sick puppy--I like it!

After Libya, my next project may be to try to ignore myself. :rofl:

Your post is a refreshing and very funny respite from the humorless SCREAMING PROPAGANDA posts we may have seen somewhere on the net--in a location that I won't name here. :)

:thumbsup: :rofl:

[joshcryer]

60. Haha

(fixed the salute the other one was borked) :)

[pinboy3niner]

63. Thanks

I had stolen your Libya *patriot* salute link.

This unreformed and unrepentant thief is now stealing the new one, thanks to your heads-up and new link.

:yourock:

[tabatha]

59. Defected pilots get warm welcome Tripoli

Two Libyan air force pilots made a joyful return to Tripoli.

They have been out of the country since February.

They say they were given orders to bomb anti-government protesters but, horrified, they chose to defect instead and flew to Malta.

Colonel Ali al-Rabiti said he wanted to continue as a pilot. "I want to train the next generation of pilots," he added, "to protect Libya and its people.

The port of Tripoli has more or less returned to full operation, officials say.

http://youtu.be/DkLJ3KIol4A

[tabatha]

61. NATO to end combat operation in Libya

TRIPOLI, Libya, Sept. 16 (UPI) -- The North Atlantic Treaty Organization will end its combat operation and transfer power in Libya within the next 3 months, officials say.

A U.N. resolution submitted by Britain, to be discussed as early as Friday, transfers power from NATO to the Libyan Transitional National Council, ITAR-Tass reported.

The resolution also lifts the embargo on Libya, making it possible to deliver arms to the country and remove a no-fly zone imposed by NATO.

The United Nations may also send 50 to 200 civilian advisers to Libya to help the new government and promote establishment of a law-based system.


Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/09/16/NATO-to-end-combat-operation-in-Libya/UPI-51391316177521/#ixzz1YMsm4ydd

[pinboy3niner]

66. I love you guys!

Keeping these threads going can be grueling, but we've had a core crew working it, assisted by others who contribute when they can.

Now and then we hear from others who are dedicated followers of the threads who often are 'lurkers' who've been at DU for years but rarely post--yet they were motivated enough to post here.

As one who has 'worked' these threads, I'll say again that it has been a labor of love. I don't really expect gratitude from others for something that I've enjoyed doing, even though it's entailed personal sacrifices. The real sacrifices have been and are being made by the people in Libya.

Seeing other threads featuring SCREAMING PRO-GADDAFI PROPAGANDA with a lot of all-caps all-fonts text probably has made, I suspect, some fellow members appreciate these threads even more.

Yet the rec counts on the various threads suggest that the propagandists have had some measure of success.

Lest anyone feel daunted or demoralized by this, here's something to consider:

ALDONZA: Why do you do these things?

DON QUIXOTE
What things?

ALDONZA
These ridiculous... the things you do!

DON QUIXOTE
I hope to add some measure of grace to the world.

ALDONZA
The world's a dung heap and we are maggots that crawl on it!

DON QUIXOTE
My Lady knows better in her heart.

ALDONZA
What's in my heart will get me halfway to hell.
And you, Señor Don Quixote-you're going to take
such a beating!

DON QUIXOTE
Whether I win or lose does not matter.

ALDONZA
What does?

DON QUIXOTE
Only that I follow the quest.

ALDONZA
(spits)
That for your Quest!
(turns, marches away; stops, turns bock
and asks, awkwardly)
What does that mean... quest?

DON QUIXOTE
It is the mission of each true knight...
His duty... nay, his privilege!
To dream the impossible dream,
To fight the unbeatable foe,
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go;
To right the unrightable wrong.

To love, pure and chaste, from afar,
To try, when your arms are too weary,
To reach the unreachable star!

This is my Quest to follow that star,
No matter how hopeless, no matter how far,
To fight for the right
Without question or pause,
To be willing to march into hell
For a heavenly cause!

And I know, if I'll only be true
To this glorious Quest,
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest.

And the world will be better for this,
That one man, scorned and covered with scars,
Still strove, with his last ounce of courage,
To reach the unreachable stars!


--From 'Man of La Mancha'

[joshcryer]

68. The Impossible Dream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpDRjLeH7Qg

My favorite version, though Frank Sinatra does a really amazing version, this is the best (by Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine, haha, silly name, I know).

edit: here's a video of the scene you're referencing (wanted to see that rendition, it's amazing, too!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6QCg8IG8Nc :hi:

[mark7sys]

93. To right the unrightable wrong …

… is precisely what is demanded by the experience of Libyans. And it is demoralizing to realize that this outcome is completely impossible.

But sunshine is the best disinfectant, and your efforts here have made it possible for many people to keep a finger on the pulse of events when it would have otherwise not been a practical possibility for them. The very fact that you folks care enough to make the effort is very moralizing, indeed.

[pinboy3niner]

67. Gulf likely to trim oil output as Libya recovers-Badri (OPEC Libyan Sec-Gen)

DUBAI, Sept 19 (Reuters) - Gulf OPEC countries will likely gradually decrease their output as Libya's production recovers towards pre-war levels after raising output to compensate for the Libyan loss, the oil group's Libyan Secretary General Abdullah al-Badri said on Monday.

Badri, who was Libyan energy minister 1990-2000 and headed its National Oil Corporation (NOC) until 2006, said production in fields in central Libya could be back to pre-war levels in 15 months, while other areas might take longer.
...

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E7KI0R320110919

[joshcryer]

69. Three wars, two majors and a Master’s degree

http://www.uwmpost.com/2011/09/19/three-wars-two-majors-and-a-master’s-degree-3/">Three wars, two majors and a Master’s degree
Ron Larson goes to classes, just like a student. Larson studies for exams and writes papers, just as a student would. Larson is even beginning his doctorate in history and journalism at UW-Milwaukee this year, just like a student.

Larson has also spent time in fox holes alongside Libyan rebels. Larson has watched U.S. rocket artillery fire on rebel positions in Afghanistan – and not through a TV set. Larson has not seen, but heard, sniper fire tear through the air just feet above his head.

And Larson said one of his greatest fears is not bombs or small arms fire, but failure, just like a student.

...

“It just seemed like the anti-Gaddafi, pro-democracy attitude was so prevalent among these people,” Larson said. “If you were going to make a bet, you are going to bet on their side, as opposed to this dictator of 42 years who was so thoroughly hated.”

Nothing creates unity than a peoples coming up against one single entity.

[pinboy3niner]

70. But Gaddafi was really a pan-Africanist progressive...

:sarcasm:

[pinboy3niner]

71. Josh, obviously you are deluded

You need to stop believing your lying eyes and accept the propaganda ...er... wisdom...of casual and distant observers.

:sarcasm:

:)

[joshcryer]

72. Hush, I'm compiling...

...a CIA report on the great work we're doing propagandizing everyone.

[pinboy3niner]

74. Forget it, you're already screwed

You can never keep up with the distant and casual propaganda machine and the Ladies who support it. You may as well Leigh yourself down and give up the fight. :)

[polly7]

77. Why not just say who you're talking about? No need to be so cryptic,

whoever it is would then have a chance to defend themselves. Wouldn't that be more fair?

[joshcryer]

79. It's an inside joke.

I don't know why he isn't permitted to have an inside joke with someone.

[pinboy3niner]

81. Those who need defending have threads which give them ample opportuniy

And I'm sure you're familiar with DU rules against callouts.

Thanks for the kick, though. :)

[polly7]

82. I just thought you might want to offer the opportunity for

whoever it is you're alluding to over and over to have a chance to answer back. But, I guess not. Carry on.

[pinboy3niner]

85. "Over and over" ?

I don't believe that's the case.

Do you feel a need to defend someone?

In the end, polly, while we may have some differences here on this issue, DUers will be united on a host of other issues.

Thats one of the reasons why I have not attacked those who have a diferent opinion here. But it is a bit dismaying to see Gaddafi propaganda introduced at DU.

Regardless, these threads are not the forum for those debates.

[joshcryer]

73. Libyan Provisional Authority Facing Stalled Military, Political Efforts

http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2011/09/19/libyan-provisional-authority-facing-stalled-military-political-efforts/">Libyan Provisional Authority Facing Stalled Military, Political Efforts
Libya's provisional authority is facing military and political challenges, as fighters have met continued resistance in former leader Moammar Gadhafi's remaining strongholds and National Transitional Council leaders have delayed announcing a new government.

NTC volunteer fighters fled in chaos Sunday from the heavily fortified desert town of Bani Walid when pro-Gadhafi troops attacked their positions with mortars and sniper fire.

Regular, trained provisional authority troops had pulled away from Bani Walid after failing to take the town in earlier fighting. Volunteers who chose to remain at the front line took heavy fire Sunday.

In Mr. Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte, revolutionary forces also have encountered fierce resistance. Most NTC fighters besieging that city are part of experienced, battle-hardened brigades from Misrata.

[joshcryer]

75. Libya ‘can benefit’ from Malta

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110919/local/Libya-can-benefit-from-Malta.385297">Libya ‘can benefit’ from Malta
Libya had the resources but not the expertise and, thus, it would benefit from Malta’s experience in development and reconstruction, National Transitional Council chairman Mustafa Abdul Jalil said during a flying visit to the island last night.

Malta would play a “very distinguished role” in the rebuilding of his country, Dr Jalil said.

“Proximity is more important than blood-relations,” he said, describing Malta as Libya’s “closest neighbour”.

Addressing a joint press conference at Castille with Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi and Libya’s interim Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril, Dr Jalil said the two countries shared historic ties and the Mediterranean culture.

[pinboy3niner]

76. Who is Abdel Hakim Belhaj?

From AJE's Live Blog:

In Libya, new figures are emerging in political and military circles during this transitional period; some even command wide appeal.

However, some of these individuals are sparking controversy because of their past.

Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra reports from Tripoli, about one such rising star: Abdel Hakim Belhaj, the new commander of the Libyan rebel Tripoli Military Council.

Belhaj is linked to one of the most symbolic events of the Libyan revolution: the capture of the Bab al-Aziziya compound, the former residence of Libya's toppled leader, Muammar Gaddafi.

Video report here (2:55):

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-19-2011-0843

[joshcryer]

78. OPEC recognises NTC as Libyan representative

http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/opec-recognises-ntc-as-libyan-representative--badri">OPEC recognises NTC as Libyan representative
DUBAI, Sept 19 (Reuters) - The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries now recognises Libya's National Transitional Council as its OPEC representative, the oil group's Secretary General Abdullah al-Badri said on Monday.

...

"OPEC will recognise the NTC... and they will sit in the same chair," Badri told the Gulf Intelligence energy forum in Dubai on Monday.

[joshcryer]

84. Firm sold Gaddafi stealth 4X4

http://www.mmail.com.my/content/82490-firm-sold-gaddafi-stealth-4x4">Firm sold Gaddafi stealth 4X4
A French company provided Libya in 2008 with a specialised 4X4 designed to protect Muammar Gaddafi while he travelled, and the French presidency signed off on the deal, Mediapart reported online on Sunday.

The vehicle, capable of neutralising any electric field within a 100m radius, was made by Amesys, a subsidiary of the French technology firm Bull, which earlier this month acknowledged it had dealings with Gaddafi's regime.

[pinboy3niner]

86. K&R :)

[pinboy3niner]

87. Humanitarian aid plane comes under fire from Bani Walid

A Turkish military cargo plane dropping humanitarian aid over the Libyan town of Bani Walid came under fire from the ground, the Turkish news agency Anatolia reported.

The incident happened when one of two Turkish C-130 transport planes parachuting aid to residents was fired on, the agency said, citing a journalist on the plane.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-sep-19-2011-1041

[joshcryer]

88. Total CEO eyes Libyan business expansion

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/19/total-libya-idUSL5E7KJ0A920110919">Total CEO eyes Libyan business expansion
Total SA is in talks with Libya's interim leaders about expanding its business in the North African country, the French oil major's chief executive told a German newspaper.

"We want to cooperate with the Libyans on an industrial development plan to develop their oil and gas production," Christophe de Margerie told daily Handelsblatt in an interview published on Monday.

He said Total was working on a list of concrete proposals that it hoped to submit to Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC) by the end of 2011. He said he wrote a letter to the president of the NTC and received a positive response.

"But we are not yet talking about new oil production contracts," de Margerie said.

[joshcryer]

89. Libya revolution filters slowly to desert towns

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-09-19/libya-desert-revolutions/50461412/1">Libya revolution filters slowly to desert towns
The tumultuous change of power in far-off Tripoli was for weeks little more than a rumor in this small sun-baked town deep in Libya's desert, its news brought in by travelers down the long, desolate ribbon of highway that links Schwerif to the outside world.

Finally last week, a group of fighters following Libya's new rulers drove through. They negotiated with local elders to lower the green flags of Moammar Gadhafi's regime. Then they headed off for battle further south, leaving a contingent of local supporters out-gunned and out-numbered by Schwerif's largely pro-Gadhafi residents.

On a recent afternoon, rockets screeched wildly overhead, thudding into the dirt randomly around the town of 3,200 after regime loyalists set fire to an ammunition dump to keep it out of the revolutionaries' hands. Like other terrified residents, Ali Abdullah, now head of the local revolutionary council, hid in his home with the cooking-off munitions whizzing by outside.

He has had no contact with the new leadership in Tripoli and, with electricity and telephones out, isn't even sure how to reach them. "We understand the idea of the revolution, so we're trying to carry it out here by ourselves," he said.

It's a shame Bani Waled didn't go this way but I have a feeling it is so entrenched because the fleeing fighters from Tripoli went there...

[joshcryer]

90. Libya delays unveiling new cabinet as battles rage

http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2011/09/19/libya-delays-unveiling-new-cabinet-as-battles-rage/">Libya delays unveiling new cabinet as battles rage
The birth of a new government in Libya, due on Sunday, was put off indefinitely amid disputes over portfolios and as Moamer Kadhafi diehards put up stiff resistance in their remaining strongholds.

National Transitional Council (NTC) number two Mahmud Jibril said last-minute haggling delayed the announcement of the new cabinet line-up before reluctantly announcing to the media that the unveiling would be postponed indefinitely.

Progress by NTC fighters hoping to crush the last pockets of resistance in Kadhafi bastions also appeared stalemated, as the fugitive’s loyalists in his hometown of Sirte and the oasis of Bani Walid refused to yield.

“The announcement of a new transitional government has been postponed indefinitely in order to finalise consultations,” Jibril told reporters in Benghazi.

Also posted (variant of article) in LBN by alp227: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4998273

[joshcryer]

91. OPEC Head Sees Gulf Output Cut On Libya Return

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904194604576580191458419096.html?mod=googlenews_wsj">OPEC Head Sees Gulf Output Cut On Libya Return
Gulf oil producers, already facing a weakening demand picture in 2011 and 2012, are expected to cut their output once Libya resumes production, the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries' top official said Monday.

OPEC Secretary General Abdalla Salem el-Badri, a Libyan, told a forum that Libya could reach pre-unrest production levels within 15 months, as few key facilities were damaged, and said he expects Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries to cut output once Libya's production recovers, although he hasn't had confirmation of that from the individual producers.

"When Libya will come to production, OPEC members will reduce their production ... no doubt about it," he said. "Right now I don't see anything, but as long as Libya starts to produce more and more I'm sure member countries will cut. It is in their benefits."

Mr. El-Badri's comments come amid renewed concerns about the global economy. On Monday light, sweet crude futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange for delivery in October were 1.6% lower at $86.58 a barrel in electronic trading. Brent crude was also lower.

[joshcryer]

92. Week 31 part 3 here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1964355